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Kelly,

I just gave TUB the biggest compliment I'm capable of giving anything. I'm sorry that I got the numbers wrong and I appreciate your correction that it was 70 people, not 150.

As far as my exaggerations being hurtful I'm sorry; that was not the intent!

My entire point in the above post was that if a group of human geniuses wanted to fabricate a book like TUB to make money or to start a cult, or in some way wield power over others, it couldn't be done, because TUB surpasses any level of human knowledge or self expression that I'm aware of.


Last edited by Redtread on Fri Dec 25, 2015 8:17 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Kelly,

Also I'm planning on doing a full out study of TUB. This past few months is just the beginning for me. Reading TUB is like prospecting in a gem encrusted mine where around every corner is a new glimmering jewel. (That is a compliment by the way.)


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Redtread wrote:
Rexford,

I couldn't agree more. This is one of the reasons why I think I'm starting to love TUB and talking to you guys.

I've been philosophizing according to TUBs definition my entire life. I didn't excel in grade school because I was always putting all my energy towards integrating the concepts I was learning before I would actually try to learn them as they were taught.

If a human personality was capable of formulating TUB then he or she wouldn't pass away in obscurity, we'd have more evidence of their works somewhere.

Here's why it seems unreasonable to me to think it's a fabrication: If we got 100 of the best writers, historians, and philosophers together and say have them formulate a book that's kinda half Christian but half sci-fi, and make it agreeable with common sense and profoundly wise and unsurpassed in philosophical insight ( especially as far as modern philosophy is concerned.) Furthermore we make it so that it can be a complete work of fabrication, they can tell as many lies as they want and make them sound real, would they produce anything near TUB? Those of us who've been changed by the truths in it know that would be an impossible task.

When you read the book it sounds exactly like you'd expect a book written by higher celestial beings to sound. They look down at us, but don't talk down to us. Would a crazy aspiring cult leader produce this work? How could someone craving power over others produce a work like this? Show me the cult it has inspired, or the power it has given to egocentric psychopaths. It hasn't. The group that "wrote" it doesn't even claim authorship.

So why would someone produce this work? There's only one reason. It is sustained by a fundamental element of truth. I don't know what that element is yet, I know there are some basic or possibly even substantial inaccuracies in the book, but that pales in comparison to the sense of life that the book presents.

When I say sense of life, I mean the overall view of the universe, of everything that we encounter. Even the fact that it's as obscure as it is even after 71 years of being in existence, it's almost as though only the people who are ready to confront the truths seem to end up reading it.

Most books appeal to some kind of common denominator of person that would read it. But TUB has no common denominator that is the same as any other book. It's equally relevant to every tradition and religion. It shamelessly proclaims truths in a matter of fact sense as if there was never really any doubting them, then it goes on to answer the questions raised by such proclamations before you even realize it's a question you had. It feels like it's reading your mind and saying "Rest easy child, I've got this."

It denounces all of the least important doctrines of Christianity to me and strengthens the most important and central doctrines that have made Christianity a reliable religion for my life.

I've read Mary Baker Eddy, I've read the book of Mormon, I've read the apocrypha and the pseudepigrapha. I've been to four years of Bible college. I've studied the Talmud. I've ingested the origin, source, and apoligetics defending the writings of the New Testament and the received canon. I've studied western and eastern philosophy from Confucius to Aristotle to Sartre. I've read Calvin and Wesley. I've visited dozens of kinds of churches and studied their worship services. I know all of the ways the new testament can be days to fulfill the old covenant. I know more of the Bible by heart than is even useful to me.

Yet in spite of all of this, I have never in my entire life read or studied a more cogent, complete, or full example of the best of human religion, philosophy, science, and history, brought into one work, while simultaneously giving a plausible explanation for a universe of universes that is more vast, enthralling, full and satisfying than any revealed religion has ever come close to.

I will admit that I wish there was more clarity as to the genesis of the Book. It's difficult to accept another new revelation when I can't even analyze the source because it all happened in a private room with only 150 other people who I don't know and never will.

But the text speaks for itself. It's not the spiritual words in the physical book, but the spiritual book in the physical words. It stands alone there is no other book that has the same sense of life. Regardless of the origin, or of its minor scientific discrepancies, I can't deny what I've seen with my own eyes. And what I've seen with my own eyes is deeper than the ocean, wider than the earth, and greater than the worldviews that currently pervade.

Say what you will about the Urantia Book, but at the end of the day it's the most plausible and universally satisfying worldview in existence today. Perhaps my statement will be proven wrong in the next few years as I continue to study, but I highly doubt it. The best of the philosophers and worldviews I know of are merely apprentices to apprentices to understudies of The Urantia Book.

At risk of repeating myself, I'll say again that it takes the best aspects of Christian theology and reinterprets them while leaving the worst aspects of Christianity in particular and religion in general out.

Thank you Redtread. I've never read a more complete summary of the book, that I know will eventually uplift the entire world.

If you look into the origins of how the book came into existence (there's a lot out there) you will find at the end of the day that nobody really knows how it did. And that makes me glad. The fact that after several decades now it's still rather obscure further validates the truth of the whole thing. Because like you said you have to be ready to encounter the truth and in a world of lies, few are. But in time through the influence of those who implement its teachings, all that will change. The Urantia Book has mightily enhanced my life and I see that it has done the same thing to everyone I know who has been open to it. It is literally, beyond profound.

I want to thank you and everyone who participates in this forum, or otherwise integrates the revelations and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth and the Urantia Book into their lives.

A very Merry Christmas to all.


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Redtread wrote:
Kelly,

I just gave TUB the biggest compliment I'm capable of giving anything. I'm sorry that I got the numbers wrong and I appreciate your correction that it was 70 people, not 150.

As far as my exaggerations being hurtful I'm sorry; that was not the intent!

My entire point in the above post was that if a group of human geniuses wanted to fabricate a book like TUB to make money or to start a cult, or in some way wield power over others, it couldn't be done, because TUB surpasses any level of human knowledge or self expression that I'm aware of.


Redtread....I also appreciate your perspective and appreciation of and for the Papers. Well said....and nothing to apologize for or even explain. And according to Dr. Sadler:

The last meeting of the Forum as a genetic assembly was held on May 31st, 1942. During the 17 years of official existence the Forum attained a total membership of 486.

8)


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Greetings All,

Redtread's post brought tears to my eyes. It resonated with me. I don't understand Mr. Kelly's angst.

Facing the living truth head on, one lives in a state of perpetual awe which is hard to express. Only those who have had similar experiences can appreciate another's attempt to put it into words. I appreciate Redtread's words. Thank you.

Rexford


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DITTO :wink:

Thanks Redtread 8)


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Hi all, it's been a long time since I've last posted. Just a couple of questions: Redtread, what is the significance of of the red tire :?: And how long have you been studying TUB :?:
:arrow:

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I've been studying TUB for about three or four months.

I create pseudonyms for the precise purpose of making sure someone can't find everything I've ever written by just googling a nickname.

RedTread rhymes and means absolutely nothing; it seemed just random enough that it couldn't possibly be attributed to anyone in particular. :)


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Thanks! :arrow:

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Thank you Redtread. I think you've hit the nail on the head describing the profound slap in the face one experiences when "realizing" the fact of The Urantia Book. I could not say it better.

As nod pointed out, the enduring mystery surrounding the origin only serves to lend more to its credibility, in my mind, at least. As I get older, the wisdom of the approach taken by the revelators to present higher truths to this backward realm becomes more and more apparent.

Still, while my mind was essentially forced to accept its reality, ACTUALLY living it has still proven to be a challenge to me. As I've mentioned before, I now have a better appreciation of the difference between faith and mere belief. In my mind I am beyond certain of its authenticity and authority. But, in my heart, I still have much much more progress to make.

As to your original topic... it's a pity the only "alternative" to Darwinian evolution is so-called Creationism. The reality appears to be that there is truth in both perspectives. In essence, life was designed to evolve. The mystery of physical life is something I tend to get impatient with mechanists about. They simply take it for granted that life just occurs. And species just randomly mutate into other ones.

I once watched a "debate" between a "prominent evolutionary biologist" and other scientists over the question "Has science disproved God?" or some other nonsense. During the debate the evolutionary biologist claimed that you actually can't go back in time and point out a single mutation or a number of mutations in a single generation that marks the beginning of a new species. That things are so gradual, these demarcation points can't be isolated to single events. That got me thinking: Do they really believe this? If so, why?

Upon further research it turns out that, yes, in evolutionary biology, speciation is considered to be too gradual of a process to allow an observer to mark the exact genesis of a new species. Of course, to any thinking mind, this is not just a paradox but actually irrational. So, why?

It comes down to dogma. An acknowledgement of this possibility is perceived as an existential threat to the "scientific" study of life itself. In other words, if they allow that a single generation can bring about a new species, then they believe the entire system of thought crumbles.

Think about it: if in one generation a dinosaur becomes a bird, with what other animal can a bird mate? There has to be the same occurrence of this new species appearing for it to procreate. That would mean the same "random" mutation would have to happen more than once in an extremely short timespan. This implies that there is some other element at play than mere natural selection.

As readers, we already know that it's perfectly resolvable. But to them, it's giving "the other side" ammunition, and so as a matter of axiomatic principle, such a possibility is simply not allowed to exist.

Materialism is more than a philosophy, it is a personal religion for some. When you try to "prove" to a materialist scientist something on this layer of understanding, it's best to be aware beforehand that you are messing around with their fundamental belief system and one should expect all the associated reactions that usually occur when one treads in such waters of the psyche, be they religionists or not.


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That's right quil, they are fully invested in the non-existence of God. And they believe this the same way anyone believes in religion. Atheism is where they put their faith. Insanity I tell ya.


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Redtread wrote:
RedTread rhymes and means absolutely nothing; it seemed just random enough that it couldn't possibly be attributed to anyone in particular. :)


For me, Redtread is the Wheel of the Romani People's Flag, with 16 Spokes. But this is all joined at one central Axel.

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lwatkins wrote:
Perhaps the simplest and easiest explanation is that when the life carriers initiate life, as they did here one billion years ago, the DNA of the single celled organisms contained the potential of all life from simple plantlife to dinosaurs and humans; these potential life forms are keyed to environmental factors. There are no missing links, things change from one form to the next according to the established plans set in motion by the life carriers.

Darwinian evolution is at play, but it is under the control of spirit forces which science cannot account for.

Larry


I like that summary. It can be encapsulated as "front-loaded Intelligent Design." Because it was engineered and implanted, the first life did not have to arise by conjectural processes of "chemical evolution" and did not need to be the simplest life imaginable. The first life would have carried an immense library of genetic information to allow evolution to occur in a foreseen way. It's one of the things I like about the UB.

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