Urantia Book Forum

Urantia Book Discussion Board : Study Group
It is currently Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:58 pm +0000

All times are UTC - 7 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Spirit/Flesh!
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun May 10, 2015 2:59 am +0000
Posts: 2
These two (to us humans) universal realities are really hard to unify (if that´s even possibe).

I, for myself is deeply in love with a fellow co-worker and she´s married. She has a strong affliction for me nevertheless.
But this deep love for her is, too me, universal, has nothing to do with pure sex.

I will still love her, engaged/living togheter with me or not. I feel that I will do whatever it takes to make her happy, in this world or/and the next and so forth!


-Is this normal feelings? Considered Male/female attraction! :-?

-Any thoughts on this matter?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Spirit/Flesh!
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:52 am +0000
Posts: 921
Streetspirit,
Interesting topic you raise. Of course, only you can perceive the nature of your feelings for the other person and only you can understand the nature of the relationship. I would say from my own experience that having romantic feelings toward a married individual is not unusual; perhaps most people have experienced it on occasion, if only fleetingly.

Acting on the feelings is something else. I do not think TUB says anything about romantic relationships other than the importance of family as the foundation of society.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Spirit/Flesh!
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:23 pm +0000
Posts: 641
TUB places a premium on relationships in general. Be very careful not to come between those in a relationship, either a friendship or a marriage. Just judge by the example of Judas who was undermining the relationships between the apostles and with the Master.

You are playing with fire, Streetspirit.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Spirit/Flesh!
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 5:02 am +0000
Posts: 1369
(89:3.6) It was only natural that the cult of renunciation and humiliation should have paid attention to sexual gratification. The continence cult originated as a ritual among soldiers prior to engaging in battle; in later days it became the practice of "saints." This cult tolerated marriage only as an evil lesser than fornication. Many of the world's great religions have been adversely influenced by this ancient cult, but none more markedly than Christianity. The Apostle Paul was a devotee of this cult, and his personal views are reflected in the teachings which he fastened onto Christian theology: "It is good for a man not to touch a woman." "I would that all men were even as I myself." "I say, therefore, to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them to abide even as I." Paul well knew that such teachings were not a part of Jesus' gospel, and his acknowledgment of this is illustrated by his statement, "I speak this by permission and not by commandment." But this cult led Paul to look down upon women. And the pity of it all is that his personal opinions have long influenced the teachings of a great world religion. If the advice of the tentmaker-teacher were to be literally and universally obeyed, then would the human race come to a sudden and inglorious end. Furthermore, the involvement of a religion with the ancient continence cult leads directly to a war against marriage and the home, society's veritable foundation and the basic institution of human progress. And it is not to be wondered at that all such beliefs fostered the formation of celibate priesthoods in the many religions of various peoples.

Men and women get together and share their lives for two purposes, companionship and procreation. True love comes from God, and it is the same for all persons. If you allow yourself to obsess over someone, to "love" them possessively, you circumvent the possibilities for bringing God's love through you to someone who ought to be loved by you. The bottom line is, it doesn't matter who you share your life with, it matters how you share your life with them.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Spirit/Flesh!
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:23 am +0000
Posts: 818
Greetings Streetspirit,

Ever since the days of Dalamatia there has been a commandment against such a thing.

Hap presented the early races with a moral law. This code was known as "The Father's Way" and consisted of the following seven commands:
1. You shall not fear nor serve any God but the Father of all.
2. You shall not disobey the Father's Son, the world's ruler, nor show disrespect to his superhuman associates.
3. You shall not speak a lie when called before the judges of the people.
4. You shall not kill men, women, or children.
5. You shall not steal your neighbor's goods or cattle.
6. You shall not touch your friend's wife.
7. You shall not show disrespect to your parents or to the elders of the tribe. 66:7:8-16


In Friendship,
Rexford


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Spirit/Flesh!
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:52 am +0000
Posts: 921
Rexford,
The quote from TUB you referenced is interesting in light of the UB's emphasis on equality of the sexes. If you consider that list of seven commandments, all but one of them applies to both sexes equally. However, "You shall not touch your friend's wife" is only applicable to male individuals. A female would not read that and see it as a commandment that is relevant to her. Furthermore, it refers to the 'wife' in a way that seems to consider her a possession of the friend, rather than as a person with her own freewill and accountability for her own actions.

While I don't doubt that Hap gave such counsel at the time, and that it was beneficial for the society and the culture in which it was given, I am not 100% certain that it fits our current society.

Don't get me wrong; I believe adultery is morally wrong and does carry harmful consequences in most cases. However, I believe women should be held equally responsible for their part in relationships.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Spirit/Flesh!
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 3660
I think the issue is one of loyalty and disloyalty....so, it is the wife's position to be honest to all about feelings and intentions but Streetspirit also has obligations of forthrightness, commitment, etc. Dicey business. Sincerity and loyalty are very important to peace of mind.

8)


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Spirit/Flesh!
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 5:02 am +0000
Posts: 1369
Ever wonder why the root word for "adultery" is used to define what we are when we grow up (adult)?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Spirit/Flesh!
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:52 am +0000
Posts: 921
Word Origin and History for adultery
n.

"voluntary violation of the marriage bed," c.1300, avoutrie, from Old French avouterie (12c.), noun of condition from avoutre, from Latin adulterare "to corrupt" (see adulteration ).


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Spirit/Flesh!
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:23 am +0000
Posts: 818
Greetings Agon,

Agon D. Onter wrote:
The quote from TUB you referenced is interesting in light of the UB's emphasis on equality of the sexes. . . . . While I don't doubt that Hap gave such counsel at the time, and that it was beneficial for the society and the culture in which it was given, I am not 100% certain that it fits our current society.


Adam and Eve were the paragon of equality of the sexes and they taught the same seven commandments.

The laws of the Garden were based on the older codes of Dalamatia and were promulgated under seven heads:
1. The laws of health and sanitation.
2. The social regulations of the Garden.
3. The code of trade and commerce.
4. The laws of fair play and competition.
5. The laws of home life.
6. The civil codes of the golden rule.
7. The seven commands of supreme moral rule.
The moral law of Eden was little different from the seven commandments of Dalamatia.74:7.12-20


Of course the same commandments apply today as they did then. The reasons for following the rules may change as humans grow in the understanding of meanings and values, but the rules do not change.

The habit of bending rules to fit one's own moral milieu, besides being contagious, is essentially evil. That's exactly what Lucifer did. Not good.

In Friendship,
Rexford


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Spirit/Flesh!
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 5:02 am +0000
Posts: 1369
Agon D. Onter wrote:
Word Origin and History for adultery
n.

"voluntary violation of the marriage bed," c.1300, avoutrie, from Old French avouterie (12c.), noun of condition from avoutre, from Latin adulterare "to corrupt" (see adulteration ).

So in other words, when we "grow up" we tend to corrupt childlikedness. By definition we adulterize, being like a child.

[137:8.8] "Those who first seek to enter the kingdom, thus beginning to strive for a nobility of character like that of my Father, shall presently possess all else that is needful. But I say to you in all sincerity: Unless you seek entrance into the kingdom with the faith and trusting dependence of a little child, you shall in no wise gain admission.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Spirit/Flesh!
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:52 am +0000
Posts: 921
Nod, I do not agree that all adults are corrupt. It is possible for adults be childlike in our faith (and trusting dependence); in fact, I believe that is what TUB advises us to be. Our faith has nothing to do with our biological age; it is a matter of humility and sincerity.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Spirit/Flesh!
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:23 am +0000
Posts: 818
Greetings,

To adulterate is to make impure. Some people adulterate their bodies and minds with poisons and thus make themselves impure (polluted). And thinking impure thoughts is as bad as actually carrying them out. It is a sign of immaturity to engage in such activities. Immature means childish. The goal is to be childlike, not childish.

Evil is the immature choosing and the unthinking misstep of those who are resistant to goodness, rejectful of beauty, and disloyal to truth. 130:1:5
The presence of evil constitutes proof of the inaccuracies of mind and the immaturity of the evolving self. Evil is, therefore, also a measure of imperfection in universe interpretation. 130:4:11
Sin depicts immaturity dazzled by the freedom of the relatively sovereign will of personality while failing to perceive the supreme obligations and duties of cosmic citizenship. 118:7:4
Unrighteousness is contemptible; sin is despicable. Evil is degrading, whether held in thought or wrought out in deeds. 131:3:3


In order to be childlike, the Papers tell us we need to be trusting, honest, sincere, open to guidance and teaching, a simplicity of faith and desire for God's will.

It is not the mental immaturity of the child that I commend to you but rather the spiritual simplicity of such an easy-believing and fully-trusting little one. It is not so important that you should know about the fact of God as that you should increasingly grow in the ability to feel the presence of God. 155:6:12

In Friendship,
Rexford


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Spirit/Flesh!
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2003 8:59 pm +0000
Posts: 330
Location: North Dakota
Streetspirit,

Your question reveals that you are facing the same sort of decision Nalda was.

Please read the following:
Quote:
143:5.3 Jesus replied: “Everyone who drinks of this water will thirst again, but whosoever drinks of the water of the living spirit shall never thirst.
This can also be a metaphor for what you are entertaining. Think of yourself standing in front of Jesus at the well. Imagine he is talking to you about this.

Quote:
And this living water shall become in him a well of refreshment springing up even to eternal life.” Nalda then said: “Give me this water that I thirst not, neither come all the way hither to draw. Besides, anything which a Samaritan woman could receive from such a commendable Jew would be a pleasure.” *

143:5.4 Nalda did not know how to take Jesus' willingness to talk with her. She beheld in the Master's face the countenance of an upright and holy man, but she mistook friendliness for commonplace familiarity, and she misinterpreted his figure of speech as a form of making advances to her. And being a woman of lax morals, she was minded openly to become flirtatious, when Jesus, looking straight into her eyes, with a commanding voice said, “Woman, go get your husband and bring him hither.” This command brought Nalda to her senses. She saw that she had misjudged the Master's kindness; she perceived that she had misconstrued his manner of speech. She was frightened; she began to realize that she stood in the presence of an unusual person, and groping about in her mind for a suitable reply, in great confusion, she said, “But, Sir, I cannot call my husband, for I have no husband.” Then said Jesus: “You have spoken the truth, for, while you may have once had a husband, he with whom you are now living is not your husband. Better it would be if you would cease to trifle with my words and seek for the living water which I have this day offered you.”

143:5.5 By this time Nalda was sobered, and her better self was awakened. She was not an immoral woman wholly by choice. She had been ruthlessly and unjustly cast aside by her husband and in dire straits had consented to live with a certain Greek as his wife, but without marriage. Nalda now felt greatly ashamed that she had so unthinkingly spoken to Jesus, and she most penitently addressed the Master, saying: “My Lord, I repent of my manner of speaking to you, for I perceive that you are a holy man or maybe a prophet.” And she was just about to seek direct and personal help from the Master when she did what so many have done before and since—dodged the issue of personal salvation by turning to the discussion of theology and philosophy. She quickly turned the conversation from her own needs to a theological controversy. Pointing over to Mount Gerizim, she continued: “Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and yet you would say that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship; which, then, is the right place to worship God?”

143:5.6 Jesus perceived the attempt of the woman's soul to avoid direct and searching contact with its Maker, but he also saw that there was present in her soul a desire to know the better way of life. After all, there was in Nalda's heart a true thirst for the living water; therefore he dealt patiently with her, saying: “Woman, let me say to you that the day is soon coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. But now you worship that which you know not, a mixture of the religion of many pagan gods and gentile philosophies. The Jews at least know whom they worship; they have removed all confusion by concentrating their worship upon one God, Yahweh. But you should believe me when I say that the hour will soon come—even now is—when all sincere worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for it is just such worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and they who worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. Your salvation comes not from knowing how others should worship or where but by receiving into your own heart this living water which I am offering you even now.”

143:5.7 But Nalda would make one more effort to avoid the discussion of the embarrassing question of her personal life on earth and the status of her soul before God. Once more she resorted to questions of general religion, saying: “Yes, I know, Sir, that John has preached about the coming of the Converter, he who will be called the Deliverer, and that, when he shall come, he will declare to us all things"—and Jesus, interrupting Nalda, said with startling assurance, “I who speak to you am he.”


Jesus is the way the truth and the life. His idea of dealing with these questions is to ask his Father what he would have him do. If you love God more than yourself you will make a decision that lives up to that, if you love yourself more than God, well then . . .! Seek the spiritual way, the decisions you make today have eternal import. Jesus said the first and supreme commandment is to love God with all your heart, soul, spirit and strength, AND in doing that love your neighbor as yourself. Love righteously, not selfishly but love with all your heart, soul, mind and strength. You can do this!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Spirit/Flesh!
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:07 am +0000
Posts: 923
I believe that a lot of the pressure (which expresses itself as attraction and affection) one feels toward a particular person who is already spoken for is basically the result of not having an adequately fulfilling relationship with a person who IS free to share such experiences. The smart, most caring and most appropriate response is to develop the habit of turning the mind and desires away from the person who isn't free and focusing them on someone else. That someone else can be a real or fictitious person. A fictitious person can stand as a proxy for the person you will meet in the future. The intensity of the situation probably indicates that you need to do something to broaden the number of people you meet day by day. That means "hitting the pavement". Exploring new activities, new places. Maybe even making a big move in life.

If you really love and care for her you will not tempt her to do something inappropriate. And you might remember that if the divine plan is for you to meet and love someone else in the future who is to become your wife, then everything you do to counter that now may damage that possibility in the future. It's a difficult lesson to learn now, but believe me, someday you may be extremely grateful to have passed through an ordeal of fire unscathed.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Registered users: No registered users


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You can post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group