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A forum for thought provoking questions & answers of a spiritual nature or as pertaining to the Urantia Papers.
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Re: There used to be this group....

Mon Dec 14, 2015 6:29 pm +0000

In response to SEla_Kelly in an earlier post on this thread . . .
lwatkins wrote:Channeling is a psychic activity -- an activity of the lower mind. Although the messages dredged up often seem to be spiritual in nature psychic activity is ego driven, not spiritual.
If what you say is true Larry, then in what manner is the progression, of what the Papers refer to as the psychic circles, "not spiritual"?

Re: There used to be this group....

Mon Dec 14, 2015 7:43 pm +0000

I don't see any relationship between the psychic circles and psychic mind activity other than both contain the word psychic.

Re: There used to be this group....

Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:14 pm +0000

Then isn't this what we're talking about here?

91:2.2 (995.7) Both prayer and magic arose as a result of man’s adjustive reactions to Urantian environment. But aside from this generalized relationship, they have little in common. Prayer has always indicated positive action by the praying ego; it has always been psychic and sometimes spiritual. Magic has usually signified an attempt to manipulate reality without affecting the ego of the manipulator, the practitioner of magic. Despite their independent origins, magic and prayer often have been interrelated in their later stages of development. Magic has sometimes ascended by goal elevation from formulas through rituals and incantations to the threshold of true prayer. Prayer has sometimes become so materialistic that it has degenerated into a pseudomagical technique of avoiding the expenditure of that effort which is requisite for the solution of Urantian problems.

Re: There used to be this group....

Tue Dec 15, 2015 5:32 am +0000

What Urantia Paper 99 states "without affecting the ego of the practicioner" about magic suggests that it involves no adjustment, whereas prayer is a key for the human mind to adjust properly and wisely to the circumstance of life, of human willingness to fulfill God's will.

I wish to further qualify what I meant "conversation", that this type of conversation is primarily spiritual. It is often too profound to be expressible in symbols of the English language. A spiritual concept may be conveyed in a single symbol to one who is spiritually receptive. What is understood through revelation by one human may be too profound for poetic or scientifical interhuman communication.

Re: There used to be this group....

Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:38 am +0000


Perhaps it is useful to recall that spiritual reality is experienced in the soul, but interpreted by the psyche. The psyche is indispensable to spiritual growth.

It would also be useful to study the word "psyche" as used in the Papers. Even the dictionary has trouble with this word assigning it to the mind, soul and spirit. In reality, the psyche is the arena in which the relationship between all three exist.

psyche 1 |ˈsīkē| noun
-the human soul, mind, or spirit

There are ascending levels within the psyche of the individual mind. I don't have time to detail it all now, I'm under pressure for other deadlines today. Maybe later if anyone is interested in discussing it.

Thank you,

Re: There used to be this group....

Tue Dec 15, 2015 2:31 pm +0000

When you look up the definition of the word psychic you get a lot of information. As applied to the use of the word in the Papers (psychic circles) the definition that stands out for me is based on the synonym clairvoyant.

noun: clairvoyant; plural noun: clairvoyants; noun: clairvoyante; plural noun: clairvoyantes

a person who claims to have a supernatural ability to perceive events in the future or beyond normal sensory contact.
synonyms: psychic, fortune teller, crystal gazer; More
medium, spiritualist;
telepath, mind-reader
"a woman claiming to be a clairvoyant gave a description of the kidnappers"

adjective: clairvoyant

having or exhibiting an ability to perceive events in the future or beyond normal sensory contact.
"he didn't tell me about it and I'm not clairvoyant"
synonyms: psychic, telepathic, visionary, oracular;

I believe that it is a natural goal of progressing spiritually that one becomes more and more able to see the end from the beginning. The recital of the life of Jesus informs us that this was at the heart of Jesus' experience. He was constantly telling what was going to happen. Isn't this really what we're ultimately trying to do, predict the future? A politician, consumes him or herself with what to say to get elected, the Wall Street broker, so he can make the right move in the market to make a lot of money, and so forth. The corollary to actual progress is tied up also, I think, with how much we may know about the future but keep this foreknowledge to ourselves. Keeping the right hand from knowing what the left hand is doing.

Generally we look upon individuals who can predict the future as being gifted or special. But if this is the normal result of growing spiritually, then we are all going to be prophets eventually. After all, the source of foreknowledge indwells us, doesn't he?

Re: There used to be this group....

Tue Dec 15, 2015 2:50 pm +0000

I disagree that clairvoyance has anything to do with the seven psychic circles discussed in TUB. I also disagree that we 'will all be prophets eventually'. In my opinion, the ability to see the end from the beginning is the exclusive ability of Diety at the Trinity level.

That said, I do believe it is possible for any of us humans to have a flash of foresight which allows us to determine future events to some degree. Whether these momentary foresights are related to the psychic circles, I do not know. I believe they may come from our Thought Adjusters concomitant with a major life event or development.

110:7.9 (1213.4) While the voice of the Adjuster is ever within you, most of you will hear it seldom during a lifetime. Human beings below the third and second circles of attainment rarely hear the Adjuster’s direct voice except in moments of supreme desire, in a supreme situation, and consequent upon a supreme decision.

Re: There used to be this group....

Tue Dec 15, 2015 3:08 pm +0000

For Christians, it's too much to accept what the Urantia Book teaches that we are the "sons of God".

For Urantia Book readers, it's too much that we are to become like God, perfect and like him, be able to predict the future. At least in this life time.

Re: There used to be this group....

Tue Dec 15, 2015 3:26 pm +0000

Greetings. God does not "predict" the future....he is outside of time so there is no "future" or past.

Please consider the definition of the word psyche when considering the psychic circles.....psyche is soul, spirit, or inner person in the original Greek, as noted by Rexford.

The seven psychic circles are the progression of the soul through 7 levels of spiritization which allows for that future transcendent action of fusion with the TA. It is speaking of the soul here, not the mind (though the mind can be aware of soul and the mind is the arena where choices are made which may accrue to soul) and certainly not anything to do with clairvoyance or predictions of any kind.

We will never predict the future. However, if one does a key word search for "time unit" in the UB, we discover that sufficient experience and maturity combined with the proper time unit perspective certainly elevates our ability to identify "probabilities" of outcomes generally and specifically. We do learn how to consider and think through the cause and effect loop to help us understand the effects that result by our choices....this might also be considered wisdom.

118:1.3 (1295.3) There is a direct relationship between maturity and the unit of time consciousness in any given intellect. The time unit may be a day, a year, or a longer period, but inevitably it is the criterion by which the conscious self evaluates the circumstances of life, and by which the conceiving intellect measures and evaluates the facts of temporal existence.

118:1.4 (1295.4) Experience, wisdom, and judgment are the concomitants of the lengthening of the time unit in mortal experience. As the human mind reckons backward into the past, it is evaluating past experience for the purpose of bringing it to bear on a present situation. As mind reaches out into the future, it is attempting to evaluate the future significance of possible action. And having thus reckoned with both experience and wisdom, the human will exercises judgment-decision in the present, and the plan of action thus born of the past and the future becomes existent.

118:1.5 (1295.5) In the maturity of the developing self, the past and future are brought together to illuminate the true meaning of the present. As the self matures, it reaches further and further back into the past for experience, while its wisdom forecasts seek to penetrate deeper and deeper into the unknown future. And as the conceiving self extends this reach ever further into both past and future, so does judgment become less and less dependent on the momentary present. In this way does decision-action begin to escape from the fetters of the moving present, while it begins to take on the aspects of past-future significance.

118:1.6 (1295.6) Patience is exercised by those mortals whose time units are short; true maturity transcends patience by a forbearance born of real understanding.

118:1.7 (1295.7) To become mature is to live more intensely in the present, at the same time escaping from the limitations of the present. The plans of maturity, founded on past experience, are coming into being in the present in such manner as to enhance the values of the future.

118:1.8 (1295.8) The time unit of immaturity concentrates meaning-value into the present moment in such a way as to divorce the present of its true relationship to the not-present — the past-future. The time unit of maturity is proportioned so to reveal the co-ordinate relationship of past-present-future that the self begins to gain insight into the wholeness of events, begins to view the landscape of time from the panoramic perspective of broadened horizons, begins perhaps to suspect the nonbeginning, nonending eternal continuum, the fragments of which are called time.

118:1.9 (1296.1) On the levels of the infinite and the absolute the moment of the present contains all of the past as well as all of the future. I AM signifies also I WAS and I WILL BE. And this represents our best concept of eternity and the eternal.

118:1.10 (1296.2) On the absolute and eternal level, potential reality is just as meaningful as actual reality. Only on the finite level and to time-bound creatures does there appear to be such a vast difference. To God, as absolute, an ascending mortal who has made the eternal decision is already a Paradise finaliter. But the Universal Father, through the indwelling Thought Adjuster, is not thus limited in awareness but can also know of, and participate in, every temporal struggle with the problems of the creature ascent from animallike to Godlike levels of existence.


Re: There used to be this group....

Tue Dec 15, 2015 4:24 pm +0000

You are correct, about Joshua Jesus's clairvoyance. But I believe clairvoyance to be a result of practicality. You are talking about "seeing the future", but there is no doubt that the highest good that we would reach as a society requires real work.

Clairvoyance, therefore, also favors the prepared and the prudent. It is not so lofty and esoteric of a concept. I estimate that God would equip those who, like the farmer, are the most willing to perform His Labours. It is not so mystical of a construct. The Revelation that JEremiah received required him to "Go outside", to go into the community to observe the affairs of his people.

Therefore, it is not so surprising to see a strident and earnest labourer (Joshua) receive the full mantle of God's revelation unto the world. He could not have had insight about each human individual if he was not interested in, observant of, and loving towards each specific individual. This practical insight applied equally to Annas & Caiaphas as it had to Judas and James Alpheus.

Therefore, I hypothesize that a group who espouses to promulgate the will of God for any generation must also be the most active in terms of social and economic contribution to the world. (160:2.8 The Art of Living Isolation tends to exhaust the energy charge of the soul. Association with one's fellows is essential to the renewal of the zest for life and is indispensable to the maintenance of the courage to fight those battles consequent upon the ascent to the higher levels of human living.) (91:8.13 Prayer is not a technique of escape from conflict but rather a stimulus to growth in the very face of conflict. Pray only for values, not things; for growth, not for gratification.)
Last edited by SEla_Kelly on Tue Dec 15, 2015 5:58 pm +0000, edited 2 times in total.

Re: There used to be this group....

Tue Dec 15, 2015 5:21 pm +0000

Greetings All,

Although the words "psyche" and "psychic" have the same root, their use can have completely different meanings.

The psyche has to do with the arrangement of one's intellectual life. Among humans there are 24 basic orders of psychic organization (36:2:16).

Prophetic visions are super-psychic intuitions, meaning they do not arise from the conscious level of the psyche.

Jesus had foreknowledge, which is not the same as clairvoyance. Foreknowledge requires the awareness of all possible finite choices available for a given situation. Clairvoyance is a mystical or paranormal state. The two are not synonymous.

In Friendship,

Re: There used to be this group....

Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:09 am +0000

fanofVan wrote:The seven psychic circles are the progression of the soul through 7 levels of spiritization which allows for that future transcendent action of fusion with the TA. It is speaking of the soul here, not the mind (though the mind can be aware of soul and the mind is the arena where choices are made which may accrue to soul) and certainly not anything to do with clairvoyance or predictions of any kind.

A little self correction here:

110:6.3 (1209.3) The psychic circles are not exclusively intellectual, neither are they wholly morontial; they have to do with personality status, mind attainment, soul growth, and Adjuster attunement. The successful traversal of these levels demands the harmonious functioning of the entire personality, not merely of some one phase thereof. The growth of the parts does not equal the true maturation of the whole; the parts really grow in proportion to the expansion of the entire self — the whole self — material, intellectual, and spiritual.


Re: There used to be this group....

Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:02 am +0000


The psychic circles have to do with personality realization. In other words, the personality becomes more real as it ascends through the circles. Circle ascension has to do with discovery, recognition, interpretation of reality resulting in decision-action which contributes to evolution of the Supreme Being.

The psyche is the arena in which this process takes place. The psyche is the entirety of the human mind with all its parts, higher and lower. The goal is to ascend, to elevate one's psyche through growth, a process where the personality becomes more conscious of reality, and willingly self-identifies with it.

If the human window of reality lies within the relationship between the soul and the Adjuster, then psychic growth requires insight into that relationship. This is the purview of prayer, the desire to discover God within one's own psyche and make him real. Everyone who has entered the seventh psychic circle has this desire. The goal is to foster it rather than ignore it.

It is also unfortunate that so many get directionally confused as to where God lives within their psyche. Some direct their desires to the subconscious level of the psyche and because they find unusual things there, label them as evidence of God's existence in that place. It's a problem.

The surest way to avoid being directionally impaired is effective praying (see Papers 91:9 & 144:3). Sincere prayers are designed to lead the mind toward the superconscious level of the psyche. Likewise, prayer also allows the psyche to retrieve useful information from the subconscious, but it does so in a way which puts it into proper perspective in regards to reality. But, one must first discover reality in order to benefit from this perspective.

Prayer opens the mind to input from both directions, and a deeply sincere personality should be able to recognize the truth, beauty and goodness arising from the soul level of thought, then apply that light to the lower, material level of thought. This light is the guiding light of inspiration helping us interpret all the ideas and thoughts converging within our psyches which need adjustment. The more one prays, the more one exercises this channel of reality seeking, the easier it becomes to recognize reality and choose it.

Enough for now,

Re: There used to be this group....

Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:05 am +0000

Well stated Rexford, thank you.
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