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What is the information in TUB for? What is its purpose? Why discuss it and intellectualize it? How do we prevent Urantia Book scholarship? What is a revelation for and what does it reveal?


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fanofVan wrote:
Me here: It seems that the value in group religion is based upon its ability to support and inspire the individual's personal spiritual experience.


Only spirit can inspire.


fanofVan wrote:
Me here: So, this text book of fact and truth is not a book of fact and truth? It is not to teach? Only people can teach? So then text books are idolatry if believed but professors may be believed because they are not books? What of the authors of text books? Very confusing position.


I am trying to ease your confusion, Brad. TUB is information, the very best. It claims not to be infallible. It claims to be truthful. But this is not the same as being fact and Truth. If it is not infallible it is not fact. If it is not Spirit it cannot be Truth. The Spirit of Truth is Spirit. It is not the Book of Truth. A textbook is information and must not be believed but questioned. It is theory, not fact. Theory must be falsifiable. A professor is a person and can be believed or disbelieved by another person. Both have TAs. Once the mind of the author put hie/her theories in writing in a text, they are removed from the Truth of Spirit. When a theory is not falsifiable it is worthless as a theory. It then becomes simply an assertion, impossible to evaluate.

When you equate the written word with its author, you have created an idol.


fanofVan wrote:
The book claims it is indeed for us to learn from...to eliminate error with facts and reduce confusion with truth....thus it claims to be the 5th Epochal Revelation. You seem to be denying this claim while you have previously agreed with this claim of the authors. It's okay if you don't accept the authors' claims....but it can't be both ways. To embrace the teachings so gifted and written is no form of idolatry so long as it is the teachings and not their container that are embraced and lived.


A book cannot claim anything, not even TUB. It is not a person. It is information and information does not teach. Teachers teach, persons teach. TUB cannot eliminate error. If only it could. Jesus could not eliminate error. I agree that as far as I can tell the information in TUB is correct. The authors claim that TUB is not infallible. The information is not necessarily free of error.

Your TA is a gift of Father. How dare you place TUB above this gift from your Father!? How dare you place TUB above the Spirit of Truth!? How dare you place TUB above the Spirit of The Spirit!?

Brother, stop now! The endowment of this lavish Spirit ministry is not enough for you? Shameful! Listen to your REAL teachers!


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Here's one thread on the topic:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5114

There are many others. Great topic.

8)


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Greetings Manny,

Apparently we're not permitted to talk about the world's woes on this forum. I think you have to pick a safer topic title. How about, "Does TUB Inform Us How to Create Peace on Earth?" Never mind that the Papers inform us that bringing peace on earth requires contending with bitter and self-deceived enemies. As long as we don't name the enemies of peace, I think we will be safe. What do you think?

Remember, as you go forth proclaiming peace on earth and good will among men, you must contend with bitter and self-deceived enemies; therefore be as wise as serpents while you are also as harmless as doves. 163:1:3

Whatever,
Rexford


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In my opinion, TUB has many purposes, but one which stands out to me is the purpose of putting our daily strivings into a cosmic perspective. The book reminds us that our planet is cradled in the gentle grasp of a loving Universal Father who has the ability to make us all perfect from birth, but has chosen to give us this sphere and all its difficulties as a means of providing experience in which we learn to find perfection, slowly but surely.

(258.11) 23:2.12 “The confusion and turmoil of Urantia do not signify that the Paradise Rulers lack either interest or ability to manage affairs differently. The Creators are possessed of full power to make Urantia a veritable paradise, but such an Eden would not contribute to the development of those strong, noble, and experienced characters which the Gods are so surely forging out on your world between the anvils of necessity and the hammers of anguish. Your anxieties and sorrows, your trials and disappointments, are just as much a part of the divine plan on your sphere as are the exquisite perfection and infinite adaptation of all things to their supreme purpose on the worlds of the central and perfect universe.”


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Rexford wrote:
Greetings Manny,

Apparently we're not permitted to talk about the world's woes on this forum. I think you have to pick a safer topic title. How about, "Does TUB Inform Us How to Create Peace on Earth?" Never mind that the Papers inform us that bringing peace on earth requires contending with bitter and self-deceived enemies. As long as we don't name the enemies of peace, I think we will be safe. What do you think?

Remember, as you go forth proclaiming peace on earth and good will among men, you must contend with bitter and self-deceived enemies; therefore be as wise as serpents while you are also as harmless as doves. 163:1:3

Whatever,
Rexford


I will listen to the Master and "go forth". I am willing to contend with the bitter consequences that may come. O:)


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Agon D. Onter wrote:
In my opinion, TUB has many purposes, but one which stands out to me is the purpose of putting our daily strivings into a cosmic perspective. The book reminds us that our planet is cradled in the gentle grasp of a loving Universal Father who has the ability to make us all perfect from birth, but has chosen to give us this sphere and all its difficulties as a means of providing experience in which we learn to find perfection, slowly but surely.


I like that Agon, and I agree. Brad reminded us of the discussions in "epochal revelation" back in June. It reminded me of some very powerful words from Jim George. He called TUB a blueprint for the here and now. It is time to build that building.

I am going to remind you now that many of our present woes are directly related to the scarcity of resources in the clash of civilization. Interesting that TUB appeared at a time when the advent of the atomic energy and oil discovery under the sands of the Arabian desert were immediately foreseen by our celestial overseers. Both have been a blessing and a curse. Energy is our economy. God is energy. God is love. The blueprint is there. We are fighting for the same God.

We as brothers want a bigger piece of Father. Well brothers, it is not a zero sum game. But it is a game we are playing blindly. We feel thirst in a sea of fresh water. We fail to see the abundance of Father. I have seen the blue print and I understand it. I can read the hieroglyphs. I am ready to start building. I am preparing myself to contend with the bitter enemies that wish to stop me. I pray for strength.


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MannyC wrote:
Agon D. Onter wrote:
In my opinion, TUB has many purposes, but one which stands out to me is the purpose of putting our daily strivings into a cosmic perspective. The book reminds us that our planet is cradled in the gentle grasp of a loving Universal Father who has the ability to make us all perfect from birth, but has chosen to give us this sphere and all its difficulties as a means of providing experience in which we learn to find perfection, slowly but surely.


I like that Agon, and I agree. Brad reminded us of the discussions in "epochal revelation" back in June. It reminded me of some very powerful words from Jim George. He called TUB a blueprint for the here and now. It is time to build that building.

I am going to remind you now that many of our present woes are directly related to the scarcity of resources in the clash of civilization. Interesting that TUB appeared at a time when the advent of the atomic energy and oil discovery under the sands of the Arabian desert were immediately foreseen by our celestial overseers. Both have been a blessing and a curse. Energy is our economy. God is energy. God is love. The blueprint is there. We are fighting for the same God.

We as brothers want a bigger piece of Father. Well brothers, it is not a zero sum game. But it is a game we are playing blindly. We feel thirst in a sea of fresh water. We fail to see the abundance of Father. I have seen the blue print and I understand it. I can read the hieroglyphs. I am ready to start building. I am preparing myself to contend with the bitter enemies that wish to stop me. I pray for strength.


Well stated, Manny. Bear in mind that Jesus enlarged the neighbor scope to embrace the whole of humanity, even that we should love our enemies. With that context, I agree with your post in its entirety.


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140:8.5 (1579.7) He never ceased to warn his disciples against the evil practice of retaliation; he made no allowance for revenge, the idea of getting even. He deplored the holding of grudges. He disallowed the idea of an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. He discountenanced the whole concept of private and personal revenge, assigning these matters to civil government, on the one hand, and to the judgment of God, on the other. He made it clear to the three that his teachings applied to the individual, not the state. He summarized his instructions up to that time regarding these matters, as:

140:8.6 (1580.1) Love your enemies — remember the moral claims of human brotherhood.

140:8.7 (1580.2) The futility of evil: A wrong is not righted by vengeance. Do not make the mistake of fighting evil with its own weapons.

140:8.8 (1580.3) Have faith — confidence in the eventual triumph of divine justice and eternal goodness.


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Nod, great quotes! My reference was actually from paper 103, but your reference makes the point that as individuals, we are directed to love our enemies. But nations must sometimes use their military force to fight those who threaten national sovereignty and for protection of its citizens.

Manny's post was about himself as an individual when he wrote "I am ready to start building. I am preparing myself to contend with the bitter enemies that wish to stop me. I pray for strength."


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Greetings,

Well one thing is for sure, if what is written in Paper 25 is true, that the higher one's education the more respect one has for the opinion of others, then education must be the way to remedy today's woes. All we need now are knowledgable educators, and that's a big, big problem, in my opinion.

Paper 71 explains that education is more than knowledge of facts. Education also embraces meanings, values, duty, morality, service and cosmic insight. It costs about a quarter of a million dollars nowadays to get a sheepskin. Do you think any of those things are gained because of it? I'm doubtful because I see less and less respect for the opinion of others as time goes by.

Rexford


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Rex, what has happened to make you so gloomy?

In friendship,
nodAmanaV


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Edited: posted to the wrong thread.


Last edited by Agon D. Onter on Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:52 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Greetings nod,

nodAmanaV wrote:
Rex, what has happened to make you so gloomy?

In friendship,
nodAmanaV


This forum. I think it might be time for me to take a break. I always get my arse in the air when free speech is slammed. It's just one of my personality quirks. I'll get over it in a while, after I spit and fume like a camel, smoke some cigars and swill some scotch. Nothing peeves me more than dystopia-like situations.

Rex


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This is not a free speech forum nor is it a democracy. It's a moderated Urantia Book discussion forum. If your interests lie in other areas don't try to conform the forum to fit your ideals -- either go somewhere else or choose to participate in what's available here for you.

Larry


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