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Is the Islamic "Allah" the very same as the Universal Father Who dwells on Paradise?


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Of course he is. God is limited only by mankind's understanding of Him. Allah, God even Nog, God of fire, these are evolutionary concepts of the same being


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alwilliams767:

Check out the Quranic verses indicative of the hatred of "Allah" toward all them who are not Muslim.


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Ray,

The Urantia Book thoroughly outlines how traditional organized religion evolves generally. It also provides some comments about Islam specifically. If there is something to be added, in light of the current state of affairs with Islamic terrorism, in what way does Islam differ today from what the UB says circa 1934, for it to require such extra-ordinary consideration and attention?


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Hello, nodAmanaV.

To answer your question I would say the following: The proportion between nominal and devout Muslims seems to have grown wider - - more and more Muslims are patterning their lives and conduct according to the Quran. The considerable weakening of the resistance on the part of the West has emboldened them.


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nodAmanaV wrote:
110:1.5 (1204.3) The Adjuster remains with you in all disaster and through every sickness which does not wholly destroy the mentality. But how unkind knowingly to defile or otherwise deliberately to pollute the physical body, which must serve as the earthly tabernacle of this marvelous gift from God. All physical poisons greatly retard the efforts of the Adjuster to exalt the material mind, while the mental poisons of fear, anger, envy, jealousy, suspicion, and intolerance likewise tremendously interfere with the spiritual progress of the evolving soul.



Some questions arise as a result of this excellent quote posted by nod.

Can the reaction of the individual to TUB add to a person's intolerance due to the intellectual pride that may come from strong opinions formed from the reading of such a revelation?

Are those who read and intensely study TUB at risk of becoming angry with those who oppose what is presented in TUB?

Can those who read and intensely study and make an idol of TUB become suspicious of those that do not?

Can those persons that are not as adept at the scholarship of TUB become envious and jealous of those that are scholars?

Can a person become fearful that they are not progressing as they should as TUB presents?

Does the TA supersede TUB or the other way around?


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Ray, buddy: Look, I'm not really all caught up in the moment here.
I couldn't give a rat's a$$ about what this "holy" book or that "holy" book says.
Personally, I avoid holy books like the plague.
I think they all kinda stink.
I don't consider the UB a holy book either, but that's a whole different conversation.
I see your radical Islamists as a barbaric group of fundamentalists, not too far removed from some of the fundies here in the good ol USA except removed about 1000 years.
And don't forget pal, we made this particular bunch of loonies force to be reckoned with by going into Iraq with no plan past finishing "Daddies" war. Remember "mission accomplished"?
And by bombing innocent civilians every day we are recruiting thousands more.
So "good job" to all the conservatives here, you are really making Jesus proud


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Ray wrote:
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alwilliams767:

Check out the Quranic verses indicative of the hatred of "Allah" toward all them who are not Muslim.


Whoever wrote the Quranic verses showing the hatred of “Allah” toward non-Muslims wrote what he thought was the feeling of Allah. He most likely thought that “Allah” is like him with his hatred towards non-Muslims. So “Allah” in the Quran would only represents the God on the level of thinking of the writer. The UB God also represents the highest concept of God that the writer thinks about Him. But God does not change. Our level of thought about Him is what makes the differences.

Who God is to you maybe different from who God is to me but that does not change the fact that we are worshipping the same God.


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Greetings alwilliams,

alwilliams767 wrote:
And don't forget pal, we made this particular bunch of loonies force to be reckoned with by going into Iraq with no plan past finishing "Daddies" war. Remember "mission accomplished"?
And by bombing innocent civilians every day we are recruiting thousands more.
So "good job" to all the conservatives here, you are really making Jesus proud


This nonsense you wrote is pure political propaganda and I really do wish you'd erase it before the mods do. Jesus is proud of conservatives and liberals alike, and I'm sure you know that his business is not politics. What makes Jesus proud? Doing God's will. Neither political party has God on their side; neither party is more righteous than the other. Unfortunately, this is a very primitive notion, not unlike the warring parties in the Mideast, each claiming God is on their side because their cause is the most righteous. It's so regressive, really, and totally unnecessary among men dedicated to the truth.

In Friendship,
Rexford


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Greetings YSMAEL,

You wrote:
YSMAEL wrote:
Whoever wrote the Quranic verses showing the hatred of “Allah” toward non-Muslims wrote what he thought was the feeling of Allah. He most likely thought that “Allah” is like him with his hatred towards non-Muslims. So “Allah” in the Quran would only represents the God on the level of thinking of the writer.


I think you've landed on the truth here, friend. Although it would be blasphemous to say this in Muslim circles, I'm going to say it here hoping it doesn't break any rules of the forum.

The fact is that the Qu'ran was written by men. Mohammed did not write it, he channeled it through recitation and then others wrote down what they heard him say. Since I think channeling comes from the subconscious and not angels, I agree that the Qu'ran represents a man's idea about the nature of God. It is similar to the Old Testament, written by men about the God they understood at the time. Neither are totally accurate, but more reflective of an attitude toward Divinity, sometimes true and sometimes otherwise.

The problem with the Qu'ran is that it is believed to be the final revelation. It cannot change. What it says cannot evolve, unlike the Bible which is a record of the evolution of man's thought concerning the nature of God. This is a huge problem. The truth must be able to grow; it is alive.

How to solve the problem is a mystery to me. Jesus did say that you cannot compel men to love the truth (153:3:5). He also said that spiritual victories are not won by physical or psychic force, only by spiritual power (159:3:). This is a soul-level problem and I think if we, as a people, can solve it, we will advance as a planet towards light and life. But we have to do it ourselves. There will be no miracles, Mahdis or Messiahs.

In Friendship,
Rexford


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Is it true that if a man worship a god, provided it be His only god, then he is by that very fact worshipping the one true God?

Example: If a man worship only one god, and that god happens to be his teapot, then does that mean he worships correctly and according to the will of the Universal Father?

Another example: If a man decides to worship a being whom he does not see but is invisible, and he holds him to be all-powerful, but attributes to him a nasty, cruel, and vindictive temperament, and then behaves and comports himself toward others according to the god that he has formed in his mind and worships; is he truly worshipping the very same Personage as that of the Universal Father in Paradise?


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5:1.4 (63.2) The mortals of the realms of time and space may differ greatly in innate abilities and intellectual endowment, they may enjoy environments exceptionally favorable to social advancement and moral progress, or they may suffer from the lack of almost every human aid to culture and supposed advancement in the arts of civilization; but the possibilities for spiritual progress in the ascension career are equal to all; increasing levels of spiritual insight and cosmic meanings are attained quite independently of all such sociomoral differentials of the diversified material environments on the evolutionary worlds.

5:1.5 (63.3) However Urantia mortals may differ in their intellectual, social, economic, and even moral opportunities and endowments, forget not that their spiritual endowment is uniform and unique. They all enjoy the same divine presence of the gift from the Father, and they are all equally privileged to seek intimate personal communion with this indwelling spirit of divine origin, while they may all equally choose to accept the uniform spiritual leading of these Mystery Monitors.

5:1.6 (63.4) If mortal man is wholeheartedly spiritually motivated, unreservedly consecrated to the doing of the Father’s will, then, since he is so certainly and so effectively spiritually endowed by the indwelling and divine Adjuster, there cannot fail to materialize in that individual’s experience the sublime consciousness of knowing God and the supernal assurance of surviving for the purpose of finding God by the progressive experience of becoming more and more like him.



What we are evolving toward personally, becoming more and more like him, is what matters. Not what we are.


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Greetings Raymond,

Raymond Benjamins wrote:
Is it true that if a man worship a god, provided it be His only god, then he is by that very fact worshipping the one true God?

Example: If a man worship only one god, and that god happens to be his teapot, then does that mean he worships correctly and according to the will of the Universal Father?

Another example: If a man decides to worship a being whom he does not see but is invisible, and he holds him to be all-powerful, but attributes to him a nasty, cruel, and vindictive temperament, and then behaves and comports himself toward others according to the god that he has formed in his mind and worships; is he truly worshipping the very same Personage as that of the Universal Father in Paradise?


Great questions Raymond. The same question can be applied to an individual who worships the secular god of humanism. I think the only thing positive that can be said about it is the phenomenon of worship. At its minimum, it means that the individual is responding to the spirit of worship, and that's a good thing, and may even be God's will for that individual, depending on his/her capacity for spirituality.

But even Jesus couldn't convince people that the gods didn't live inside stones and statues, or for that matter, in the Temple.

There was only one factor of a tribal, racial, or national nature about the primitive and unorganized beliefs of the desert, and that was the peculiar and general respect which almost all Arabian tribes were willing to pay to a certain black stone fetish in a certain temple at Mecca. This point of common contact and reverence subsequently led to the establishment of the Islamic religion. What Yahweh, the volcano spirit, was to the Jewish Semites, the Kaaba stone became to their Arabic cousins. 95:7:5

When people make a fetish of their god, then all bets are off, in my opinion. Fetishes are fixations of truth, and therefore non-living, non-evolving. Sacred writings easily become fetishes too, and I believe extremists have become guilty of this.

Words eventually became fetishes, more especially those which were regarded as God's words; in this way the sacred books of many religions have become fetishistic prisons incarcerating the spiritual imagination of man. 88:2:6

The question becomes whether or not it is wise to suddenly remove fetishes. I believe there are a few quotes that explain when it comes to these things evolution is better than revolution. Too bad revelation can't help much, unless it's person to person perhaps. I've often wondered what would happen to Islam if the Kaaba suddenly disappeared like the Jerusalem Temple disappeared. Judaism survived but evolved away from animal sacrifice. Would Islam also be forced to evolve? It's just a thought experiment; I'm not suggesting anything with it.

But it has often been the error of the teachers of new truth to attempt too much, to attempt to supplant slow evolution by sudden revolution. 95:1:18

In Friendship,
Rexford


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Raymond Benjamins wrote:
Quote:
Is it true that if a man worship a god, provided it be His only god, then he is by that very fact worshipping the one true God?

Example: If a man worship only one god, and that god happens to be his teapot, then does that mean he worships correctly and according to the will of the Universal Father?

Another example: If a man decides to worship a being whom he does not see but is invisible, and he holds him to be all-powerful, but attributes to him a nasty, cruel, and vindictive temperament, and then behaves and comports himself toward others according to the god that he has formed in his mind and worships; is he truly worshipping the very same Personage as that of the Universal Father in Paradise?



TUB says:
155:6:17 Now mistake not, my Father will ever respond to the faintest flicker of faith. He takes note of the physical and superstitious emotions of the primitive man. And with those honest but fearful souls whose faith is so weak that it amounts to little more than an intellectual conformity to a passive attitude of assent to the religions of authority, the Father is ever alert to honor and foster even all such feeble attempts to reach out for him ....


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Thank you, gentlemen, for your thoughtful replies and citations.

Please allow me a follow-up question: As "improvement" seems to be one of the key words and concepts, can one say that since its inception during the 7th Century AD, the religion of Islam IMPROVED any as it delves into the 21st Century, from the perspective of love, benevolence, and civility?


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