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Agon D Onter:

I will leave you to your thoughts and convictions.
If you believe that the cries of innocent victims are all lies,
then there is nothing more to discuss.
I am striving for a Islam-free society,
and you need not be a part of it.

It is very clear to me that you have not clinked my link on Islam I placed in an earlier post, nor made any serious attempt to educate yourself on the essence, purpose, and intent of Islam through their Islamic and Quranic writings.

I virulently side myself with them who are OPEN and choose to be enlightened.


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YSMAEL:

Absolutely everything that you have posted this far in this thread represents to the very word PRECISELY what one would expect coming from a Muslim.

Remember that I have debated on FB 100's of Muslims, and I am keenly acquainted with their perspective, their methodology, and their doctrinization. And you, YSMAEL, have fit this pattern and frame of mind perfectly. Even your name is Islamic.

Therefore I choose to entertain no credence to anything whatsoever you will say to me.

I choose to embrace the truth, fairness, openness, righteousness, good sense, and integrity which I see portrayed in the Urantia Book..


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Brother Raymond, you have convinced me. I think you and your Facebook friends should secede. I am completely in favor of that.


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54:1.8 There is no error greater than that species of self-deception which leads intelligent beings to crave the exercise of power over other beings for the purpose of depriving these persons of their natural liberties. The golden rule of human fairness cries out against all such fraud, unfairness, selfishness, and unrighteousness. Only true and genuine liberty is compatible with the reign of love and the ministry of mercy.

54:1.9 How dare the self-willed creature encroach upon the rights of his fellows in the name of personal liberty when the Supreme Rulers of the universe stand back in merciful respect for these prerogatives of will and potentials of personality! No being, in the exercise of his supposed personal liberty, has a right to deprive any other being of those privileges of existence conferred by the Creators and duly respected by all their loyal associates, subordinates, and subjects.

Agon D. Onter wrote:
Yes. Have you? European countries have compassionately offered asylum to over 600,000 refugees from Syria over the past 4 years. For the majority of that time, there has been no major incident related to the refugees. In the last couple of weeks, an infinitesimal percentage of those have allegedly been involved in terrorist activity.


The problem with socialism is that it eventually runs out of other people's money. It also runs out of other people's compassion. Discounting any potential terrorist activity, the cost of settling over 600,000 refugees is quite burdensome to those people already having difficulty making ends meet in Europe. Are their liberties being deprived? The compassionate leaders of Europe are willing to take food out of the mouth of their own to give to another, in your name. Just so that you can sound the trumpets and beat your compassionate and charitable chest. You have now successfully laundered your earning and cleansed your guilt, but with other people's money. That is what the poor are for, right? They launder the money of the rich and well to do. For this reason there will always be the poor. They are only too happy to oblige. They will even huddle in masses to make it convenient for you. They arrive in droves from the seas, risking their lives and that of their children just for you and those yearning to offer compassion in the name of all.

Golden rulers would be reminded that compassion is individual and not collective. You cannot be Robin Hood because God loves the rich as well as the poor. You cannot be generous with other peoples money. That is thievery. Sharia law would cut your hand off for that offense. But since you are not Muslim (I assume), your fate would be crucifixion.


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This thread is discussing the Urantia Book's perspective on Islam; it is not about socialism. And I respectfully request that you refrain from any further personal attacks, Manny. We are all here to share our experience of the Urantia Book in the spirit of brotherhood.


Last edited by Agon D. Onter on Sat Nov 21, 2015 3:09 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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its weakness, the association of military force with its promulgation, together with its degradation of woman.

95:7.6 (1051.4) The strength of Islam has been its clear-cut and well-defined presentation of Allah as the one and only Deity; its weakness, the association of military force with its promulgation, together with its degradation of woman. But it has steadfastly held to its presentation of the One Universal Deity of all, “who knows the invisible and the visible. He is the merciful and the compassionate.” “Truly God is plenteous in goodness to all men.” “And when I am sick, it is he who heals me.” “For whenever as many as three speak together, God is present as a fourth,” for is he not “the first and the last, also the seen and the hidden”?


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AN INTRODUCTION TO ISLAM

Dr. Meredith Sprunger

http://www.urantiabook.org/archive/read ... uction.htm


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Agon D. Onter wrote:
This thread is discussing the Urantia Book's perspective on Islam; it is not about socialism. And I respectfully request that you refrain from any further personal attacks, Manny. We are all here to share our experience of the Urantia Book in the spirit of brotherhood.


It is you that made this discussion about socialism when you bring the subject of the compassion of the Europeans. You personally attack me and all others who you would indict as not being as compassionate as you. This makes me "indignant". But you cannot see that, can you? It is a "Holier than thou" attitude of secularism. In the spirit of brotherhood, I would wish that you refrain from such personal and communal attacks on others. I can take care of myself, but others need defending from those of your ilk.


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MannyC wrote:
Agon D. Onter wrote:
This thread is discussing the Urantia Book's perspective on Islam; it is not about socialism. And I respectfully request that you refrain from any further personal attacks, Manny. We are all here to share our experience of the Urantia Book in the spirit of brotherhood.


It is you that made this discussion about socialism when you bring the subject of the compassion of the Europeans. You personally attack me and all others who you would indict as not being as compassionate as you. This makes me "indignant". But you cannot see that, can you? It is a "Holier than thou" attitude of secularism. In the spirit of brotherhood, I would wish that you refrain from such personal and communal attacks on others. I can take care of myself, but others need defending from those of your ilk.


Please provide quotes to back up your claims. I have never compared myself to others on this thread. Also, compassion and socialism are completely different things. Jesus was compassionate, but he was no socialist.

140:8.11 (1580.6) 3. Social attitude. The Jewish rabbis had long debated the question: Who is my neighbor? Jesus came presenting the idea of active and spontaneous kindness, a love of one’s fellow men so genuine that it expanded the neighborhood to include the whole world, thereby making all men one’s neighbors. But with all this, Jesus was interested only in the individual, not the mass. Jesus was not a sociologist, but he did labor to break down all forms of selfish isolation. He taught pure sympathy, compassion. Michael of Nebadon is a mercy-dominated Son; compassion is his very nature.


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Brother Ray,

Sorry to disappoint you but I am not a Muslim. It just show how your mind works by judging the book by its cover. Good luck on your mission to create a Muslim-free world.


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Agon D. Onter wrote:
Please provide quotes to back up your claims. I have never compared myself to others on this thread. Also, compassion and socialism are completely different things. Jesus was compassionate, but he was no socialist.


You want quotes from TUB about you? There are none about you in particular. What you do is say that Europe is compassionate for taking in 600,000 Syrian refugees. Is Europe a person? Socialism is the claiming of personhood for the state. It is also called statism. Did God the Father bestow personality to the state or the European Union? This is what socialism does. BTW, Jesus was not a sociologist. Do you know the difference between sociologist and a socialist?


Agon D. Onter wrote:
140:8.11 (1580.6) 3. Social attitude. The Jewish rabbis had long debated the question: Who is my neighbor? Jesus came presenting the idea of active and spontaneous kindness, a love of one’s fellow men so genuine that it expanded the neighborhood to include the whole world, thereby making all men one’s neighbors. But with all this, Jesus was interested only in the individual, not the mass. Jesus was not a sociologist, but he did labor to break down all forms of selfish isolation. He taught pure sympathy, compassion. Michael of Nebadon is a mercy-dominated Son; compassion is his very nature.


Does Europe have a nature? You say that Europe is compassionate, or you imply just that. Will Europe build up treasure in heaven for its compassion?

Please read the quote with greater discernment . I did, and I cannot see where Jesus advocated for a compassionate Roman Empire.


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Although Manny attempts to derail this thread onto, first, socialism (a system of government) and now sociology (the study of human society), I prefer to stick with the topic. My conclusion is that the Urantia Book was neither more critical, nor less praising, of Islam than it is with the other religions that it addresses. The UB touches on many religions, illuminating their strengths and weaknesses, and weaving them all into a common thread of truth, beauty and goodness. Islam, like every other religion, is one of the threads in the beautiful tapestry that is human religious experience, with all its flaws and downfalls.


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Good for you Ysmael. This conversation reeks with the evil (as in the UB terminology of evil, as in ignorance) of bigotry.
when a person starts grouping other individuals as "all" being the same, that person is dehumanizing that group of persons and making it acceptable for himself or herself and others of like mind , to hate them. That person has closed his or her mind in the exact same fashion which the scribes and pharisees of old closed their minds to the Master.

Does it not say within the pages of the UB that any religion has value just to the extent which it brings the individual closer to God? I feel it is safe to say, that Islam has done this for millions, if not billions over the past few centuries. It is doing it today and will continue into the future.

Are there problems, severe problems with Islam? The UB teaches us that there are problems with all the named religions, yet it also states that all are valid and all are good.

A few centuries ago, the Western favored religion of Christianity was cheerfully performing many such atrocities as have been laboriously expounded upon in prior posts of this thread. Islam is simply a bit late in catching up.

All this being said, and going back to the question of the refugees, I see both sides of the argument in letting them in. Perhaps it would be best to closely scrutinize the incoming masses to attempt to weed out any who are currently planning us harm.

And why would they cause us harm? Perhaps it is because we reign indiscriminate death from the skies upon them, with our immoral and evil drone program.

What would the most ardent of the anti Muslims in this conversation be doing if another nation chose to reign drone death down indiscriminately upon your home town. Would that not "radicalize" you? what would you become. a "freedom fighter" or a terrorist? and what is the difference between the two, other than one is on "your side" and the other is not?


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Raymond Benjamins wrote:
Have you been paying any attention at all at what is currently happening throughout Europe?


Agon wrote:
Yes. Have you? European countries have compassionately offered asylum to over 600,000 refugees from Syria over the past 4 years. For the majority of that time, there has been no major incident related to the refugees. In the last couple of weeks, an infinitesimal percentage of those have allegedly been involved in terrorist activity.

Yes, I am paying attention and being realistic about what's going on.




It was you Agon, who broached the subject of socialism with this comment on the compassion of the European countries. You claimed to be a realist. Is there anything real about countries having personality traits and natures?


Agon D. Onter wrote:
Please provide quotes to back up your claims. I have never compared myself to others on this thread. Also, compassion and socialism are completely different things. Jesus was compassionate, but he was no socialist.

140:8.11 (1580.6) 3. Social attitude. The Jewish rabbis had long debated the question: Who is my neighbor? Jesus came presenting the idea of active and spontaneous kindness, a love of one’s fellow men so genuine that it expanded the neighborhood to include the whole world, thereby making all men one’s neighbors. But with all this, Jesus was interested only in the individual, not the mass. Jesus was not a sociologist, but he did labor to break down all forms of selfish isolation. He taught pure sympathy, compassion. Michael of Nebadon is a mercy-dominated Son; compassion is his very nature.


These are your words, Agon. This is a quote you provided but it just so happens to illustrate my point. This is no fault of mine.

Agon D. Onter wrote:
Although Manny attempts to derail this thread onto, first, socialism (a system of government) and now sociology (the study of human society), I prefer to stick with the topic.


Do you mean, return to the topic which you derailed initially? Be my quest. But don't put it on me. I was brotherly enough to follow you in your derailment. I gather that you consider going "off topic" a hot topic issue and akin the sinfulness? If Ray objects, I will gladly step aside. He started this topic.

Agon D. Onter wrote:
Islam, like every other religion, is one of the threads in the beautiful tapestry that is human religious experience, with all its flaws and downfalls.


If some of the flaws of Islam are militancy, exclusivity, and the degradation of half of the worlds population (women), then you can count me out. Islam does not want me either but they wish to kill me for not converting. I take that personally. Or maybe they want to skin me and make me a part of some "beautiful tapestry".

Dissimulate if you like but yours is not a coherent argument. But you can continue to try and convince me and others that Islam is good for us who are not of a militant nature. However, we stand ready to defend ourselves against the onslaught of Islam and those that are apologist for it.


Last edited by MannyC on Sun Nov 22, 2015 4:30 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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alwilliams767 wrote:
Good for you Ysmael. This conversation reeks with the evil (as in the UB terminology of evil, as in ignorance) of bigotry.
when a person starts grouping other individuals as "all" being the same, that person is dehumanizing that group of persons and making it acceptable for himself or herself and others of like mind , to hate them. That person has closed his or her mind in the exact same fashion which the scribes and pharisees of old closed their minds to the Master.


I am glad that you are above all bigotry and evil. Perhaps the drones are best pointed at those you deem bigoted?


alwilliams767 wrote:
Does it not say within the pages of the UB that any religion has value just to the extent which it brings the individual closer to God? I feel it is safe to say, that Islam has done this for millions, if not billions over the past few centuries. It is doing it today and will continue into the future.


Islam is vengeful. Vengeance is mine, says the Lord. Islam steels from God that which is God's.

alwilliams767 wrote:
Are there problems, severe problems with Islam? The UB teaches us that there are problems with all the named religions, yet it also states that all are valid and all are good.


Mine is the religion of Jesus. He was killed on the cross.


alwilliams767 wrote:
A few centuries ago, the Western favored religion of Christianity was cheerfully performing many such atrocities as have been laboriously expounded upon in prior posts of this thread. Islam is simply a bit late in catching up.


Lovely. With a long memory and a vengeful heart, we best beware. They have a lot of catching up to do.


alwilliams767 wrote:
All this being said, and going back to the question of the refugees, I see both sides of the argument in letting them in. Perhaps it would be best to closely scrutinize the incoming masses to attempt to weed out any who are currently planning us harm.


Would that not be a bigoted and discriminatory approach? Or can someone see into their hearts and minds? Perhaps a polygraph test? Good liars pass these tests all the time.


alwilliams767 wrote:
And why would they cause us harm? Perhaps it is because we reign indiscriminate death from the skies upon them, with our immoral and evil drone program.


Exactly. They have a very good excuse. They want to take our drones and use them against us. Why don't we do the compassionate thing and give them a few drones. We have just about given them an atomic bomb. :shock:


alwilliams767 wrote:
What would the most ardent of the anti Muslims in this conversation be doing if another nation chose to reign drone death down indiscriminately upon your home town. Would that not "radicalize" you? what would you become. a "freedom fighter" or a terrorist? and what is the difference between the two, other than one is on "your side" and the other is not?


One person's Lucifer is another person's Gabriel, no difference. Sides do not matter, right?


Last edited by MannyC on Sun Nov 22, 2015 4:32 am +0000, edited 2 times in total.

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