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Raymond Benjamins wrote:
Why is that, considering what I have found written in the Urantia Book?


What therefore I don't understand is that nearly ALL of the Urantia Book devotees that I have thus far come across openly express themselves as FULLY in favor of EVERYTHING concerning Islam, the contents of the Quran, their "holy book", and all that Muslims do in their behavior and culture. In a near unanimous chorus, nearly all the Urantia folks that I have come across would heartily welcome 10,000's of Islamic militants onto their land with great doting, enthusiasm, and open arms.


I have not condoned everything concerning Islam with you, Raymond. I have morely expressed my wish, as you, to reconcile the better teachings of the Urantia Book with the scholasticism concernin the teachings of Qu'ran and Islam. Since the Urantia Book expressed the progression of world religions through Christianity, Mohammadism, and then Nanak, it is reasonable to inquire further into the reasons why Mohammad declared that the Bible and the Torah were equally legitimate texts, as in the Qur'an. In the Granth Sahib of Nanak, the Vedas are recognised in similar manner.

I would recommend that you review the section that Jesus spent in Rome, and observe that the manner of his collaboration with philosophers was to interpret their own personal ideas according to his view of God's will. He did not seek to impose or reestablish any personal opinions onto the world-view of others.

The real question is, how could you allow your impression of one man poison your overall impression of the group he claims to represent?

Jesus constantly reminded the disciples not to confuse relgion with tradition, and therefore you must acknowledge those who worship as being religious, rather than those who simply are following the predisposed way of culture.

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to the Underlaying Unity of All Life so that the Voice of Intuition may guide Us closer to Our Common Keeper


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Rexford:

It is a pity this Truthbook site does not supply us with the "like" button, as they do with Facebook.

I appreciate your thoughtfulness, devotion to justice, and your ability to understand, although not yet perfectly. Your postings are generally quite enlightening and encouraging. Sorry for being a bit tardy in pointing this out.

Your brother,
Raymond Benjamins


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Thank you Raymond,

I've been the victim of discrimination most of my life, so my feathers get ruffled when I see it happening to someone else. I just want fairness in these communications. Not everything that is said has value, but it is valuable to me that everyone get to say it (within reason, of course). I very much agree with your call for common sense. So much of religion is emotional, we forget that there are many different ways to approach the same idea.

It's been pointed out that there are many different sects of Islam, just as there are many different sects of Christianity, Judaism and Buddhism, among others. That means there are many different ways to approach the same idea. None of them are absolutely right. None of us here on this forum are absolutely right either. But collectively, we have a better chance at arriving on the shores of something true, beautiful and good than struggling alone in the tempest. I am absolutely thrilled when everyone feels free to speak their minds, and even more thrilled if those thoughts spoken are guided more by the soul's desire, than gut emotions.

I don't think there are many people alive today who are not thinking deeply about the escalating violence we see in the world. It's a wound on our collective souls. It hurts and everyone wants a cure. Screaming accusations at each other is not the path to finding it though. Although I know that this kind of pain makes even a grown man cry out for it to go away, it is a fact that appeasement will not suffice for such an injury. A sensible person demands action - but what action?

In Friendship,
Rexford


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Hello, brother Rexford.

You were inquiring about what kind of action to take against the impending evil.

On Facebook, I have been advocating the simple notion of secession. If your land welcomes the enemy, then you have a God-given right to separate and form your own danger-free zone, your own sovereign country, to ensure the safety of your loved ones, while legislating just and righteous laws, adopting the contents of the Urantia Book as a most sensible guide.


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Greetings Raymond,

I sure hope it doesn't come to that. It would take a very large number of people for that to succeed. It does say in the Papers that golden rulers are justified in segregating themselves (see quote below), but I've entertained the thought that they might have been talking about the U.S. as a whole. Now that we've outgrown ourselves and are besieged from within by the weak and wicked, I wonder how that would work. What's an adequate defense against those who desire to exploit pacific predilections? I think the only defense against bombs and bullets is something that can act as an anti-bomb or anti-bullet. Is that better bombs and bullets or something else? I really don't know.

The appearance of genuine brotherhood signifies that a social order has arrived in which all men delight in bearing one another's burdens; they actually desire to practice the golden rule. But such an ideal society cannot be realized when either the weak or the wicked lie in wait to take unfair and unholy advantage of those who are chiefly actuated by devotion to the service of truth, beauty, and goodness. In such a situation only one course is practical: The "golden rulers" may establish a progressive society in which they live according to their ideals while maintaining an adequate defense against their benighted fellows who might seek either to exploit their pacific predilections or to destroy their advancing civilization. 71:4:16

In Friendship,
Rexford


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My brother Raymond, you are consumed by fear. Secession is definitely NOT a common sense solution. Do you remember the example of Jesus talking with Anaxand? It is on page 1430 and concludes with this statement by Jesus, "I predict that the good in you could overcome the evil in him if you gave it a fair and living chance." "If you are more blessed with truth than is this man, his need should challenge you."


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Agon D Onter:

I am not consumed by fear but realism.
Why should I fear?
I will spend the everlasting ages immersed in the LOVE of Paradise and the Paradise Trinity.

You forget that there are some enemies who will brutalize and kill you in exchange for the love and indulgence you give to them.

Have you been paying any attention at all at what is currently happening throughout Europe?


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Rexford wrote:
A sensible person demands action - but what action?



I think that you have the answer in your own post, Rex. More speech, not less. Political correctness has squashed free speech.

That is why I quoted what Jesus has said that could not make it on this forum without a warning or outright banishment. If Jesus would return now and claim to be who He is, the forum rules would cut him to the quick. Tigran is gone because he claimed to be a reservist.

I claim to be "the man on the hill". When will I be banished (again)?

Governments have the right to defend themselves and their peoples by whatever means necessary. Small communities can keep their populations in check by shunning those that get out of hand. Banishment is the last resort. It leaves us all less well off.

I am cringing towards the idea of the creation of "safe-zones" as in colleges these days. Similarly, a danger-free zone is not conducive to the eventual evolution of a single language, a single global religion and the inching towards the era of light and life. These segregationist ideas are juvenile and lack wisdom.

No one wants this forum to be an danger-free zone, lest you be excluded, Raymond.


Last edited by MannyC on Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:59 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Brother Rexford:

Thank you for citing a UB passage proving that in some cases secession is not only possible but the only wise option.

In fact, I have been getting HUGE amounts of support in my FB postings recommending secession.


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71:4.16 The appearance of genuine brotherhood signifies that a social order has arrived in which all men delight in bearing one another's burdens; they actually desire to practice the golden rule. But such an ideal society cannot be realized when either the weak or the wicked lie in wait to take unfair and unholy advantage of those who are chiefly actuated by devotion to the service of truth, beauty, and goodness. In such a situation only one course is practical: The "golden rulers" may establish a progressive society in which they live according to their ideals while maintaining an adequate defense against their benighted fellows who might seek either to exploit their pacific predilections or to destroy their advancing civilization.


71:4.17 Idealism can never survive on an evolving planet if the idealists in each generation permit themselves to be exterminated by the baser orders of humanity. And here is the great test of idealism: Can an advanced society maintain that military preparedness which renders it secure from all attack by its war-loving neighbors without yielding to the temptation to employ this military strength in offensive operations against other peoples for purposes of selfish gain or national aggrandizement? National survival demands preparedness, and religious idealism alone can prevent the prostitution of preparedness into aggression. Only love, brotherhood, can prevent the strong from oppressing the weak.

Please do not take 71:4.16 out of context without considering 71:4.17.


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Greetings,

One thing is for sure, Paper 71 condones military preparedness. I'm guessing they mean carry the big stick, threaten to use it, but do everything possible not to.

The key is to avoid selfish gain and national aggrandizement, according to 71:4:17. This is where I think the people of this country need more transparency in government. What really motivates their policies? Without transparency every conspiracy theory known to man will surface because humans are still very suspicious creatures. We do not naturally trust; trust is new to mankind. Yet in the quote below, we're told that a civilization is now evolving that embodies trust. Are they talking about the U.S. and its allies, or the entire world civilization?

4. The Spirits of Trust. Suspicion is the inherent reaction of primitive men; the survival struggles of the early ages do not naturally breed trust. Trust is a new human acquisition brought about by the ministry of these planetary seraphim of the Adamic regime. It is their mission to inculcate trust into the minds of evolving men. The Gods are very trustful; the Universal Father is willing freely to trust himself — the Adjuster — to man's association.
This entire group of seraphim was transferred to the new regime after the Adamic miscarriage, and they have ever since continued their labors on Urantia. And they have not been wholly unsuccessful since a civilization is now evolving which embodies much of their ideals of confidence and trust. 39:5:7-8


And what do we do about those who have proven themselves to be untrustworthy? those who want to destroy and kill? the anti-social ones? Don't we have an obligation to either reign them in or keep them out?

Lots to think about,
Rexford


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Raymond Benjamins wrote:
Agon D Onter:

I am not consumed by fear but realism.


I am very glad to hear that you are a realist, Mr. Benjamins! I, too, am a fan of realism.


Raymond Benjamins wrote:
Why should I fear?
I will spend the everlasting ages immersed in the LOVE of Paradise and the Paradise Trinity.


Indeed. We agree so far.

Raymond Benjamins wrote:
You forget that there are some enemies who will brutalize and kill you in exchange for the love and indulgence you give to them.


I do not "forget" that fact. However, I do maintain a realistic perspective with regards to the risk. The odds of being killed in a terrorist attack are fewer than one in 20 million. I am much more likely to slip in the tub, conk my head, and die that way. Yet, I still continue to take baths.

Raymond Benjamins wrote:
Have you been paying any attention at all at what is currently happening throughout Europe?


Yes. Have you? European countries have compassionately offered asylum to over 600,000 refugees from Syria over the past 4 years. For the majority of that time, there has been no major incident related to the refugees. In the last couple of weeks, an infinitesimal percentage of those have allegedly been involved in terrorist activity.

Yes, I am paying attention and being realistic about what's going on.


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Avon D Onter:

As a Facebook participant, I have been privy to countless dozens if not 100's of postings and videos of those folks who are victimized and brutalized my these Islamic "migrants/refugees", most of whom, incidentally, are proven they have not in fact come from Syria, but lied to authorities concerning their status.

This is what the reports and postings say and reveal: These Islamic intruders are desecrating churches, attacking and raping women, destroying everything they see, demonstrating and wielding ISIS flags, demanding immediate free houses, cars and all luxuries, exact Islamic diet, welfare cash benefits for life, the conversion of all "infidels" to Islam, Islamic attire for ALL European women, the banning of ALL things that offend Muslims, and an immediate implementation of Sharia Law.

So what am I to think of all this? Do you think peple are just dreaming it all up?
This same appears to be slated to happen to North America.

Our friend Rexford cited plenty of UB texts to justify separating ourselves from this impending danger and form our own Islam-free societies as sovereign nations. That is our God-given right.

AND THAT IS REALISM!


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Raymond Benjamins wrote:
Avon D Onter:

As a Facebook participant, I have been privy to countless dozens if not 100's of postings and videos of those folks who are victimized and brutalized my these Islamic "migrants/refugees" ....


Raymond Benjamins wrote:
AND THAT IS REALISM!


Um, no. Not even close.

A survey of 1,000 social media users by diary site Pencourage found 68% admitted they lie on their social profiles, with 10% saying they embellish so heavily they "don't even recognise themselves" online.

Source: "Why Fibbing on Facebook Only Deceives Ourselves" http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/life/ ... 13966.html

“The image of reality promoted on Social Media is not necessarily the true picture. Truth is not based on a hundred, or thousand or even ten thousand people saying something. Facebook groups and Twitter handles of political parties and big firms have thousands of followers. For them, pushing their agenda becomes a cake walk, as does drowning out dissident voices. Most of the times the real issues are not so simple as touted on Facebook or Twitter.” opines Madhav Dhar, an economic consultant.
"The Dark Side of Social Media" http://www.newsgram.com/dark-side-of-so ... ropaganda/


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Ray, I don't and can't believe those reports and posting you have seen on FB. Common sense alone can prove they are not true. Aside from the incident in Paris which have a few refugees have been implicated, there were no reports in media about any of what you said. If they were true, they would have been reported all over in the news media. Also, it's impossible that these European countries who received these refugees seems to not be able to enforce their laws and protect their citizens. So I believe what you posted are complete lies, not from you but you believed them.


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