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A forum for thought provoking questions & answers of a spiritual nature or as pertaining to the Urantia Papers.
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Re: Does the Urantia Book condemn the Bible?

Fri Oct 23, 2015 1:36 pm +0000

But to me, reading the bible again after I have read the Urantia Book, I could now better see its truths from its errors, whereas before I had to reason out in my mind and justify any apparent errors I saw. The UB cleared so many confusions I had with the bible.

Re: Does the Urantia Book condemn the Bible?

Fri Oct 23, 2015 2:28 pm +0000

The Urantia Book's account of Joshua ben Joseph should be considered from as a different group of beings, more than just human: the midwayers. These beings have, under approval of Michael and Gabriel, asserted the key detail's of Jesus' mission and nuances of His Personality.

When we are comparing the Urantia Book with the Bible, we should be more exact: we compare [ideally] the 1955 (1935) Version of Urantia Papers with the Vulgate of Hieronymous.

These books are more suitable towards human law than religion per se. In these stories, we each find the account of how Jesus came to hold all authority on Earth as well as, to man, on High. The key details of Jesus' life-attainment are experiencial according to the state of Judah and the law of Rome. Urantia 172.1.3:

Jesus talked with Simon about Joshua of old, whose namesake he was, and recited how Joshua and the Israelites had come up to Jerusalem through Jericho. In commenting on the legend of the walls of Jericho falling down, Jesus said: “I am not concerned with such walls of brick and stone; but I would cause the walls of prejudice, self-righteousness, and hate to crumble before this preaching of the Father's love for all men.” (See Matthew 26, John 12)

The Bible includes the Pentateuch which is called Torah of Moses. These stories are an account of the pre-Babylonian history/tradition of the Hebrew People. Christianity and Christians are pledged to uphold the Law of Moses which is the covenant that Joshua has been assigned to keep with God.

The Story told in the book of Joshua is how the tribe of Judah was scared when, in the Nation of Moses east of the River Jordan, Altars were allowed to be set up. Judah was willing to war against the tribes of Reuben, Gideon & Manse at first. However, the people of Joseph revealed to Judah that the Altars used "as a witness rather than as a sacrifice". It is significant that in this story, the city of Jebus (Jerusalem) was within the precincts Joshua assigned to Judah but not actually part of Judah. Jesus died within Judah but outside the walls of Jerusalem (Jebus).

Judah', as a territory, is an interesting one because it is both part of Rome and part of Moses' nation. The irony is that Jerusalem is recognised by Roman authority as the capital of Judah, whereas by Joshua's account, Judah is under authority of God, "my father in heaven".

Since the Urantia Papers does not include the Pentateuch, it is necessary to observe precedent as it is recorded in the Bible. These precedents are perhaps equally retrieved in the Torah or as in any applicable scripture of the Vedas.

Re: Does the Urantia Book condemn the Bible?

Fri Oct 23, 2015 8:46 pm +0000

Nicely put Raymond
:)

Re: Does the Urantia Book condemn the Bible?

Sun Oct 25, 2015 3:23 pm +0000

(1390.3) 126:3.8 While turning all these problems over in his mind, he found in the synagogue library at Nazareth, among the apocalyptic books which he had been studying, this manuscript called “The Book of Enoch”; and though he was certain that it had not been written by Enoch of old, it proved very intriguing to him, and he read and reread it many times. There was one passage which particularly impressed him, a passage in which this term “Son of Man” appeared. The writer of this so-called Book of Enoch went on to tell about this Son of Man, describing the work he would do on earth and explaining that this Son of Man, before coming down on this earth to bring salvation to mankind, had walked through the courts of heavenly glory with his Father, the Father of all; and that he had turned his back upon all this grandeur and glory to come down on earth to proclaim salvation to needy mortals. As Jesus would read these passages (well understanding that much of the Eastern mysticism which had become admixed with these teachings was erroneous), he responded in his heart and recognized in his mind that of all the Messianic predictions of the Hebrew scriptures and of all the theories about the Jewish deliverer, none was so near the truth as this story tucked away in this only partially accredited Book of Enoch; and he then and there decided to adopt as his inaugural title “the Son of Man.” And this he did when he subsequently began his public work. Jesus had an unerring ability for the recognition of truth, and truth he never hesitated to embrace, no matter from what source it appeared to emanate.


In the narration above it states that truth can be found in various places if only one can see the difference between accurate and inaccurate information, yet even some truth can be found within the philosophies of old, even if only handed down from person to person. The history of the Old Testament leads back to the Septuagint which was primarily dictated from memory to writing, yet even this may have variations or abridgments which cannot be validated or verified by any reader of modern production, which the Urantia Book is no different, when associated with reader validity as being absolute truth when one also takes into account from its own text the limitations stated within its presentation. Therefore, to ascertain truth from one document as being absolute, merely validates the needs of the reader’s own lacking or want, for that which they cannot or will not look deeper within their own soul or intellect of mind to shed any doubt for that which cannot be proved as true without faith. Truth is truly only within the mind of the believer.

The original publication of the King James Bible, 1611 edition contained 15 Apocrypha text, where in modern times they are no longer presented in this Bible, Why? Is it because they no longer have value to the remainder of that which is presented or because someone has taken it upon them self or selves to make them less available? Or, for that matter why are all the other apocrypha or pseudepigrapha not mentioned in various documents or selected books and text of various Christian religious affiliations? Is it because the presenters wish to limit the readers to just specific information, where presenting too much information might spread doubt or weaken a specific message for which they wish to present? Could not the same be said of the Urantia Book where it is admitted, within text, that all information either cannot or will not be presented, and has not been presented to the reader, however what has been omitted and, for what reason was it omitted? Can it be said that the reader does not have the capacity or intellect to understand the whole truth and nothing but the truth or, is what is being presented the only truth for which the reader is allowed to know, because any additional truth would alter the intended message and change the intent of the message. Personally I feel slighted that the authors, compilers and editors of specific text or books think that most readers are stupid and intellectually inept to comprehend text as transcribed or presented without the need to narrate specific wording and writing styles to sway the reader to specific viewpoints by distracting words and adjectives imbedded within text.

The list below are the original Books included in the King James Bible, 1611 edition.

Old Testament
01 - Genesis
02 - Exodus
03 - Leviticus
04 - Numbers
05 - Deuteronomy
06 - Joshua
07 - Judges
08 - Ruth
09 - 1 Samuel
10 - 2 Samuel
11 - 1 Kings
12 - 2 Kings
13 - 1 Chronicles
14 - 2 Chronicles
15 - Ezra
16 - Nehemiah
17 - Esther
18 - Job
19 - Psalms
20 - Proverbs
21 - Ecclesiastes
22 - Song of Solomon
23 - Isaiah
24 - Jeremiah
25 - Lamentations
26 - Ezekiel
27 - Daniel
28 - Hosea
29 - Joel
30 - Amos
31 - Obadiah
32 - Jonah
33 - Micah
34 - Nahum
35 - Habakkuk
36 - Zephaniah
37 - Haggai
38 - Zechariah
39 - Malachi

New Testament
40 - Matthew
41 - Mark
42 - Luke
43 - John
44 - Acts
45 - Romans
46 - 1 Corinthians
47 - 2 Corinthians
48 - Galatians
49 - Ephesians
50 - Philippians
51 - Colossians
52 - 1 Thessalonians
53 - 2 Thessalonians
54 - 1 Timothy
55 - 2 Timothy
56 - Titus
57 - Philemon
58 - Hebrews
59 - James
60 - 1 Peter
61 - 2 Peter
62 - 1 John
63 - 2 John
64 - 3 John
65 - Jude
66 - Revelation

Apocrypha
67 - 1 Esdras
68 - 2 Esdras
69 - Tobit
70 - Judith
71 - Additions to Esther
72 - Wisdom of Solomon
73 - Ecclesiasticus
74 - Baruch
75 - Letter of Jeremiah
76 - Prayer of Azariah
77 - Susanna
78 - Bel and the Dragon
79 - Prayer of Manasseh
80 - 1 Maccabees
81 - 2 Maccabees


Some other Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha text available, which over time and history had some value for many in that even within their presentation could be considered as having some inspiration either by celestial or our Father’s will. The creative imagination has its roots in the Holy Spirit, who may also act in mysterious ways.

Pseudepigrapha

The Books of Adam and Eve -- translation of the Latin version
Life of Adam and Eve -- translation of the Slavonic version
Life of Adam and Eve -- translation of the Greek version (a.ka. The Apocalypse of Moses)
The Apocalypse of Adam
The Book of Adam
The Second Treatise of the Great Seth
1 Enoch (Ethiopic Apocalypse of Enoch)
1 Enoch Composit (inc. Charles, Lawrence & others)
2 Enoch (Slavonic Book of the Secrets of Enoch)
Enoch (another version)
Melchizedek
The Book of Abraham
The Testament of Abraham
The Apocalypse of Abraham
The Story of Asenath
Selections from The Book of Moses
Revelation of Moses
The Assumption of Moses (aka: The Testament of Moses)
The Martyrdom of Isaiah
The Ascension of Isaiah
The Revelation of Esdras
The Book of Jubilees
Tales of the Patriarchs
The Letter of Aristeas
The Book of the Apocalypse of Baruch (aka: 2 Baruch)
The Greek Apocalypse of Baruch (aka: 3 Baruch)
Fragments of a Zadokite work (aka: The Damascus Document)

Old Testament Apocrypha

1 Esdras
2 Esdras
1 Maccabees
2 Maccabees
3 Maccabees
4 Maccabees
Letter of Jeremiah
The Prayer of Azariah
Baruch
Prayer of Manassas
Bel and the Dragon
Wisdom of Sirach
Wisdom of Solomon
Additions to Esther
Tobit
Judith
Susanna
Psalm 151

New Testament Apocrypha

Narrative of Joseph of Arimathaea
Epistle of the Apostles
Report of Pilate the Procurator
History of Joseph the Carpenter
Apocryphon of James(Another version)
The Letter of Peter to Philip
Book of John the Evangelist
Ptolemy's Commentary on the Gospel of John Prologue
Avenging of the Saviour
The Apocryphon of John (Long Version)
The Sentances of Sextus
Book of Thomas the Contender

Lost Books of the Bible
The GOSPEL of the BIRTH OF MARY
The PROTEVANGELION (Another version)
The first Gospel of the INFANCY of JESUS CHRIST
The Infancy Gospel of Thomas Composit
Greek (A)
Greek (B)
Latin
Infancy Compilation (all)
The Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew
THE EPISTLES of JESUS CHRIST and ABGARUS KING of EDESSA (Another version)
The GOSPEL of NICODEMUS (or ACTS of PONTIUS PILATE) (Another Version)
Letters of HEROD and PILATE
The APOSTLES' CREED
THE EPISTLE of PAUL the APOSTLE to the LAODICEANS
The EPISTLES of PAUL the APOSTLE to SENECA (w/SENECA's to PAUL)
The ACTS of PAUL and THECLA
The FIRST EPISTLE of CLEMENT to the CORINTHIANS
The SECOND EPISTLE of CLEMENT to the CORINTHIANS
The GENERAL EPISTLE OF BARNABAS
The EPISTLE of IGNATIUS to the EPHESIANS
The EPISTLE of IGNATIUS to the MAGNESIANS
The EPISTLE of IGNATIUS to the TRALLIANS
The EPISTLE of IGNATIUS to the ROMANS
The EPISTLE of IGNATIUS to the PHILADELPHIANS
The EPISTLE of IGNATIUS to the SMYRNAEANS
The EPISTLE of IGNATIUS to POLYCARP
The EPISTLE of POLYCARP to the PHILIPPIANS
HERMAS

The First Book of HERMAS (or VISIONS)
The Second Book of HERMAS (or COMMANDS)

LETTERS OF HEROD AND PILATE
THE LOST GOSPEL ACCORDING TO PETER
THE GOSPEL of PETER - LAST
The EPISTLE of IGNATIUS to the PHILIPPIANS
The MARTYRDOM of IGNATIUS
The MARTYRDOM of POLYCARP
TERTULLIAN on SPECTICALS
TERTULLIAN on PRAYER
TERTULLIAN on PATIENCE
TERTULLIAN on MARTYRS
The Report of Pilate to Caesar
Gospel of Bartholomew
Gospel of Thomas
Gospel of Phillip
Secret Gospel of Mark
Book of Marcion
Excerpts from the Gospel of Mary
The Letter of Aristeas
The Didache

New Testament Discoveries
The Gospel of Judas Coptic Text Copyright © by The National Geographic Society, April 2006

Other New Testament Pseudepigrapha
Letters of Pontius Pilate

FOREWORD--(it's very necessary to read this first)

PART I
1---ON THE WAY TO JUDAEA
2---POLICY TOWARDS THE JEWS
3---MEETING WITH HIS PREDECESSOR VALERIUS
4---INSTRUCTION FROM VALERIUS
5---A JEWISH DEPUTATION AT ALEXANDRIA
6---ARRIVAL AT CAESAREA
7---MEETING WITH CAIAPHAS
8---A GOVERNOR'S PROBLEMS
9---DECISION TO VISIT JERUSALEM
10--DIFFICULTIES IN VISITING JERUSALEM
11--RECEPTION AT JERUSALEM

PART II
12--FIRST MENTION OF JOHN THE BAPTIST
13--FURTHER NEWS OF JOHN
14--EYE-WITNESS'S REPORT ON JOHN
15--THE IMAGES OF THE CAESARS
16--THE ROMAN'S BURDEN
17--CONFLICT WITH THE JEWS
18--DEFEAT OF PILATE
19--ARREST OF JOHN BY HEROD ANTIPAS
20--THE PROBLEM OF THE AQUEDUCT
21--FIRST MENTION OF JESUS
22--DEATH OF JOHN AND QUESTIONS ABOUT JESUS
23--SEIZURE OF THE TEMPLE-TRIBUTE
24--A LESSON TO GALILEANS
25--ANTIPAS'S INQUIRIES AT NAZARETH
26--ATTEMPT IN GALILEE TO MAKE JESUS KING
27--FLIGHT OF JESUS INTO SYRIA
28--PILATE COMES TO JERUSALEM FOR THE PASSOVER
29--REAPPEARANCE OF JESUS
30--JESUS IN JERUSALEM
31--SCENE IN THE TEMPLE AND DECISION TO ARREST JESUS
32--ARREST OF JESUS
33--TRIAL AND EXECUTION OF JESUS


Then there are those archeological findings which occurred after the presentation of the Urantia Book, which in themselves do not present evidence one way or another as to ascertaining validity but may show the religious understanding of their time as noted by those who deemed it important enough to scribe them to history.

The Nag Hammadi Library

Codex I (Codex Jung)
1. The Prayer of the Apostle Paul A-B
2. The Apocryphon of James 1-16
3. The Gospel of Truth * (1st copy) 16-43
4. The Treatise on the Resurrection 43-50
5. The Tripartite Tractate 51-138

Codex II
1. The Apocryphon of John (1st copy - long version) 1-32
2. The Gospel of Thomas 32-51
3. The Gospel of Philip 51-86
4. The Hypostasis of the Archons 86-97
5. On the Origin of the World * (1st copy) 97-127
6. The Exegesis on the Soul 127-137
7. The Book of Thomas the Contender 138-145

Codex III
1. The Apocryphon of John * (2nd copy) 1-40
2. The Gospel of the Egyptians * (1st copy) 40-69
3. Eugnostos the Blessed * (1st copy) 70-90
4. The Sophia of Jesus Christ (1st copy) 90-119
5. The Dialogue of the Saviour 120-147

Codex IV
1. The Apocryphon of John (3rd copy - long version) 1-49
2. The Gospel of the Egyptians (2nd copy) 50-81

Codex V
1. Eugnostos the Blessed * (2nd copy) 1-17
2. The Apocalypse of Paul 17-24
3. The (First) Apocalypse of James 24-44
4. The (Second) Apocalypse of James 44-63
5. The Apocalypse of Adam 64-85

Codex VI
1. The Acts of Peter and the Twelve Apostles 1-12
2. The Thunder: Perfect Mind 13-21
3. Authoritative Teaching 22-35
4. The Concept of Our Great Power 36-48
5. Plato, Republic 588a-589b 48-51
6. The Discourse on the Eight and Ninth 52-63
7. The Prayer of Thanksgiving & a scribal note 63-65
8. Asclepius 21-29 65-78

Codex VII
1. The Paraphrase of Shem 1-49
2. The Second Treatise of the Great Seth 49-70
3. Apocalypse of Peter 70-84
4. The Teachings of Silvanus 84-118
5. The Three Steles of Seth 118-127

Codex VIII
1. Zostrianos, Zostrianos 1-132
2. The Letter of Peter to Philip 132-140

Codex IX
1. Melchizedek 1-27
2. The Thought of Norea 27-29
3. The Testimony of Truth 29-74

Codex X
1. Marsanes, Marsanes 1-68

Codex XI
1. The Interpretation of Knowledge 1-21
2. A Valentinian Exposition 22-44
2a. On the Anointing
2b. On Baptism A
2c. On Baptism B
2d. On the Eucharist A
2e. On the Eucharist B
3. Allogenes, Allogenes 49-69
4. Hypsiphrone 69-72

Codex XII
1. The Sentences of Sextus (10 pages only of about 39 originally) 15*-34*
2. The Gospel of Truth * (2nd copy) 53*-60*
3. Fragments

Codex XIII
This 'codex' consists of only 8 leaves, removed from some volume in antiquity
and tucked inside the front cover of codex VI.
1. Trimorphic Protennoia 35*-50*
2. On the Origin of the World * (2nd copy) 50*

Berolinensis Gnosticus 8502
Early 5th century
1. The Gospel of Mary 7-19
2. The Apocryphon of John (4th copy) 19-77
3. The Sophia of Jesus Christ (2nd copy) 77-127
4. The Act of Peter 128-141


The following narrations were thought to be presented to the public, from the Vatican library, where it was deemed that their content would have little effect on established religion but they were some of the first which I found that indicated that there was more information published which could possibly fill in blanks, even if those blanks required a little imagination to put together additional story lines which were otherwise not readily available to the public.

The Forgotten Books of Eden

The First Book of Adam and Eve
The Second Book of Adam and Eve
The Book of the Secrets of Enoch
The Psalms of Solomon
The Odes of Solomon
The Letter of Aristeas
Fourth Book of Maccabees
The Story of Ahikar
The Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs
Testament of Reuben
Testament of Simeon
Testament of Levi
The Testament of Judah
The Testament of Issachar
The Testament of Zebulun
The Testament of Dan
The Testament of Naphtali
The Testament Of Gad
The Testament of Asher
The Testament of Joseph
The Testament of Benjamin


None of the documents mentioned above have any more validity than does the Urantia Book, however to compare the UB with only one version of an alternate Book (the Bible) which it, the UB, somewhat quotes, for its own benefit but, nevertheless the Urantia Book could not “condemn the Bible” because “The Bible” is many different scripts to many different versions and beliefs which have been established in many religious understandings.

The UB does make a restatement of the life of Jesus, within its fourth book, which in its presentation does not change the meaning for which the teaching of Jesus were originally presented. Nevertheless, the previous three books within the UB can be considered with much more scrutiny where their narrative requires more validation which may not be available to the common reader, therefore one must ask themselves, why where they presented as they were? They present many questions as to the history of this world which may in time be validated as being more true but, there is always an underlying reason for every presentation or narrative which cannot and will not be understood by the masses who read.

Therefore when one asks the question, “Does the Urantia Book condemn the Bible?” one must ask them self, whether one actually understands either Book, in their entirety and the reason for their having been presented? Might the honest answer be, Yes and No?

Re: Does the Urantia Book condemn the Bible?

Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:03 pm +0000

Also want to chip in that I feel Raymond Benjamins's sentiments mirror mine almost exactly. The Bible is tough to understand when trying to integrate it into a consistent philosophy for one's personal religion. I am sympathetic to those who choose to take it literally as "fundamentalists"-- at least it gives the reader a solid interpretative method.

Fortunately, one does not need to jump through all those hoops when taking in The Urantia Book. I feel in the depths of my bones that it was meant to be read plainly, or "at face value." Sure, there are inferences one can make and plenty of room for speculation. It is just as interesting on the things it doesn't say, as well.

I am even more grateful at how it clarifies and compliments the Bible. The depth of which I can discuss the New Testament is greatly enhanced when I talk to Christians, now. Thanks to the revelators, I can present different perspectives of Jesus's sayings and doings that really makes a sincere Christian stop and think about what they believe. I know I never would have reached those depths without this wonderful, useful guide.

So, to answer the topic of this thread-- no, not at all!! The Urantia Book serves only to glorify the Bible! It is the greatest work man's evolutionary religion has ever produced.
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