A forum for thought provoking questions & answers of a spiritual nature or as pertaining to the Urantia Papers.
Fri Sep 25, 2015 2:12 pm +0000
I have been a student of the Bible for 44 years, and I only recently, beginning January 2014, acquainted myself with the Urantia Book.
As I was reading through, I could not help but notice that this book contains literally hundreds of quotes directly from the Bible. Now unless one really knows the Bible, one would not really detect this, because the Urantia Book does not cite chapters and verses.
It is no secret that the Urantia Book does take issue with the Bible in some areas, such as the Christian doctrines of the atonement and of original sin, and the Bible's portrait betimes of God as a cruel, rash, and unrighteous tyrant.
Even so, it is said in this book that the Bible, up to the present point, is indeed the greatest book on the subject of religion that has existed on Urantia for so many centuries. It seems to me that the Urantia Book thoroughly upholds at least 80% of the Bible.
And this fact causes me to marvel at the fact that nearly all of the devotees of the Urantia Book that I have thus far come across viscerally HATE the Bible, and want nothing to do with it.
So my question: Do they believe that the Urantia Book REALLY condemns the Bible?
To me, it really doesn't look like it does.
I honestly believe that it would prove to be a great service to society if these same devotees of the Urantia Book could at least read and learn about the Bible, just for the sake of a civilized education, if not for righteousness' sake.
Last edited by Raymond Benjamins
on Fri Sep 25, 2015 2:59 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.
Fri Sep 25, 2015 2:52 pm +0000
Greetings Raymond Benjamins,
Raymond Benjamins wrote:And this fact causes me to marvel at the fact that nearly all of the devotees of the Urantia Book that I have thus far come across viscerally HATE the Bible, and want nothing to do with it.
First of all welcome, but please do not include me in your blanket statement above. In fact, most of the devotees of the Papers whom I know respect the Bible. They just don't consider everything in it as TRUTH.
A lot of us have read the Bible, as well as the scriptures of many other religions. Moreover, what does reading the Bible have to do with righteousness? I'm not following you.
Fri Sep 25, 2015 2:53 pm +0000
Greetings Raymond - as a 4 decade reader of the UB I have not met such an attitude although many have left their churches while others have not. The Bible is cross indexed with the Urantia Papers in a book written long ago entitled The Paramony by Duane Faw which I always have found very useful myself as a one time Bible student (not yet scholar). Enjoy!http://www.urantiabook.org/urantiabook/paramony/
If you have any specific questions as to the Papers, feel free to ask. Some of us have found the Papers to be an amazing source of answering what the bible leaves unanswered as to creation, evolution, the Garden, and the life and teachings of the Master. But it is big and does challenge every new reader who always approaches the Papers with preconceptions of our own. Take your time and allow it to guide you deeper into the joys of discovery. Best wishes.
Fri Sep 25, 2015 3:51 pm +0000
Many readers of TUB come find it after leaving their religious tradition, having given up on both religion and the Bible. And many readers do not understand or appreciate the Bible. Obviously the revelators expected students of TUB to be thoroughly versed in the Bible, an outlook that wasn't too far off of the mark in the 1930s but which has considerably evaporated over the past 80 years. Many readers of TUB first come to it dragging a lot of spiritual and religious baggage to be sorted.
You can find a lot of information about TUB and the Bible by doing a Truthbook.com search on the website using the search terms urantia book AND bible
Fri Sep 25, 2015 4:30 pm +0000
Knowing how serious a student of truth you are (I've known Ray my entire life so I know what I am talking about) it's not surprising by viewing the comments of the "devotees" of the Urantia Book here in this forum and elsewhere on the internet that you would ask such a question. I know you don't think the UB condemns the Bible, like you've already pointed out, it upholds it. But when you witness the condemning discordant nature of the comments made by the readership however, why wouldn't you or anybody else feel like it does? Are we, the proponents of the Urantia Book, really living up to the call to ambassador-ship of a spiritual kingdom? The constant quoting and re-quoting of text to support an "argument" is for the most part - one big turn off!
Here, I'll demon-strate how this works:
179:1.7 (1937.5) They were still engaged in voicing angry recriminations when the Master appeared in the doorway, where he hesitated a moment as a look of disappointment slowly crept over his face.
Sat Sep 26, 2015 3:48 am +0000
Sat Sep 26, 2015 5:02 am +0000
I'm sorry but I don't see any disparaging remarks on this thread except from the author who made the statement that nearly all of the devotees of the Urantia Papers are visceral haters. Personally, I find that offensive. But that's just me.
I would also like to challenge the claim that the Urantia Papers state that the Bible is the "-greatest book on the subject of religion that has existed on Urantia for so many centuries."
I don't recall reading that anywhere. Does anyone else remember reading that? There is one somewhat similar statement, but it concerns the Book of Psalms, not the entire Bible. And, I think the word "Bible" only appears once in the text. I've reproduced both quotes below for your convenience, even though some might consider it a complete turn off to do so. My apologies.
No collection of religious writings gives expression to such a wealth of devotion and inspirational ideas of God as the Book of Psalms. And it would be very helpful if, in the perusal of this wonderful collection of worshipful literature, consideration could be given to the source and chronology of each separate hymn of praise and adoration, bearing in mind that no other single collection covers such a great range of time. This Book of Psalms is the record of the varying concepts of God entertained by the believers of the Salem religion throughout the Levant and embraces the entire period from Amenemope to Isaiah. In the Psalms God is depicted in all phases of conception, from the crude idea of a tribal deity to the vastly expanded ideal of the later Hebrews, wherein Yahweh is pictured as a loving ruler and merciful Father. 96:7:3
The attempt to suppress freedom of speech led Elijah, Amos, and Hosea to begin their secret writing, and this was the real beginning of the Jewish and Christian Bibles. 97:9:20
Sat Sep 26, 2015 5:30 pm +0000
One element that I have found that abounds in the Bible but seems to be altogether missing in the Urantia Book is that of emotion and passionate zeal. That is why I have discovered that the Bible has proved in many instances capable of transforming its readers into living lives of justice, love, and righteousness. But, I am sorry to say, I have not witnessed that kind of transformative power proceeding from the readership of the Urantia Book.
Nevertheless, as I have no doubt that the Urantia Book answers a great many questions and clear up many mysteries where the Bible fails to do so, I would be inclined to advocate to one and all an open-minded readership of BOTH the Bible and the Urantia Book. The Bible has next to nothing to say about the essence and rewards of Heaven, whereas the Urantia Book devotes a full third of its volume to satisfying the question of just what happens when life on this world is over.
I see these two Books as companion and complimentary manuals - - each fulfilling where the other lacks.
I hope I do not cause any consternation in expressing these words.
Sun Sep 27, 2015 3:39 am +0000
Greetings Raymond Benjamins,
Raymond Benjamins wrote:I see these two Books as companion and complimentary manuals - - each fulfilling where the other lacks.
That's not a bad way to look at it actually. The Bible is a record of man's search for God. It is mostly inspired and because of that reveals man's emotion and passion for seeking and finding God.
The Urantia Papers give us another view because they are written by celestials. For the most part they are not inspired, although occasionally the authors do give us a glimpse of their own passion concerning God. But what is different about the Papers compared to the Bible is that they are a revelation of how God is reaching out for us. The Papers give us God's view of man from the heavens, whereas the Bible gives us man's view of God from earth.
But the Urantia Papers are not without emotion. There is plenty. How much more zeal and passion can be found anywhere than in the beautiful appeal of the Adjuster to the human of his indwelling found in Paper 110? It is exquisitely alluring, very emotional and incomparably passionate in my opinion. Imagine! a direct message from God himself, living within the human soul! This message was introduced by these words: "And now, without injury or jeopardy to the subject of my solicitous devotion and without intent to overchastise or discourage, for me, make record of this my plea to him." Then followed a beautifully touching and appealing admonition. Among other things, the Adjuster pleaded "that he more faithfully give me his sincere co-operation, more cheerfully endure the tasks of my emplacement, more faithfully carry out the program of my arrangement, more patiently go through the trials of my selection, more persistently and cheerfully tread the path of my choosing, more humbly receive credit that may accrue as a result of my ceaseless endeavors — thus transmit my admonition to the man of my indwelling. Upon him I bestow the supreme devotion and affection of a divine spirit. And say further to my beloved subject that I will function with wisdom and power until the very end, until the last earth struggle is over; I will be true to my personality trust. And I exhort him to survival, not to disappoint me, not to deprive me of the reward of my patient and intense struggle. On the human will our achievement of personality depends. Circle by circle I have patiently ascended this human mind, and I have testimony that I am meeting the approval of the chief of my kind. Circle by circle I am passing on to judgment. I await with pleasure and without apprehension the roll call of destiny; I am prepared to submit all to the tribunals of the Ancients of Days." 110:7:10
Sun Sep 27, 2015 2:34 pm +0000
Raymond; I think if you read the revelation commission's indictment it will include the mandate to build on existing thought, the best ideas and ideals presented to man up to the time of the revelation, and naturally many of those were contained in the Bible, and that is why you find so much that is in the Bible also in The URANTIA Book. I think some people's aversion to the Bible has so much to do with how some people try to use it so literally and are unwilling to consider other avenues to truth.
Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:52 pm +0000
Aloha Ray.... and welcome to our forum. I have been reading the Bible most of my life and it did generate in me a thirst for more and some parts I just couldn't swallow. I then spent years studying eastern thought and really anything I could get my hands on... then came the UB and I was fed more than I could ever imagine. You see... I am a truthseeker. that was in 1974 and read daily beginning with the Life and Teaching of Jesus in full... About 10 years ago I would read the daily quote from Truthbook and then used the Paramony (hard book) and read what the UB had to teach. It went on for almost 5yrs... Now with everything on line it is so easy and enjoyable. I was looking for the similarities and am not disappointed... Truth is Truth. ... now matter where is comes from. God is Love
Enjoy your journey and enjoy your ride ... Aloha
Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:50 pm +0000
Bible, Book of John Revelation 22:18-19 wrote:
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll.
if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.
It is not the Urantia Book that condemns the Bible, but it is the Bible that condemns all other accounts which claim to be epochal revelation. For no man can add to the testament that God has given through the life of Joshua ben Joseph. And therefore both the Bible and the Urantia Papers shall affirm what is written in the other.
Tue Oct 20, 2015 6:00 am +0000
Nicely said SEla!
There is a statement in the UB about early Christianity being only accepted by the lower strata of society.. I feel that this is similarly the case with the F.E.R. Currently the F.E.R. is most accepted by the outcasts of organized religion, those who have fled the "Church" for one reason or another, or who have never wanted to be involved in the first place (which describes me). It is still considered a dangerous fringe group by organized religion, which was also the case of early Christianity.
Time will tell if the teachings of the F.E.R. become mainstream. When and if that happens there will occur the inevitable evolutionary pollution of the teachings with the other religions of the planet. Indeed even amongst the TruthBook family, there have been no few cases of individuals who combine their preconceptions of religion with the teachings of the book to produce some pretty amazing interpretations of what the book teaches. To be honest, there is not one amongst us who can not blend the teachings with their preconceptions, as this is the nature of our being.
Christianity and the F.E. R. Appear to be destined to wage another great struggle, similar to Mithraism and the early stages of Christianity. The result will no doubt be a blend of both.
We will just have to wait and see.
Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:48 am +0000
I agree with al. And there will be as many interpretations of the UB as there are many people who read it. But the more important thing I guess is the unity in spirit that the UB inspires in each, more important than the uniformity in thoughts and beliefs.
Fri Oct 23, 2015 12:16 pm +0000
One major difference I have to make note of between the Bible and the Urantia Book is that it literally requires reading the Bible multiple dozens of times again and again before finally learning the many salient lessons contained therein on account of the mysterious depths into which it oftentimes plummets itself.
Whereas in the reading of the Urantia Book, I have found that a once thorough and careful reading is astonishingly sufficient to capture and master the most pressingly urgent and imperative points it was intended to make, because this piece of literature is so clear, consistent, and pedigalogically repetitive that a single reading truly suffices to "get the point" and to gratefully accept our adoption into a friendly Grand Universe. Rereadings of the UB become profitable in confirming and relishing what truths we have already welcomed into our precious cache' of convictions picked up the first time.
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