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MannyC wrote:
Riktare wrote:
MannyC wrote:
Another question is for the Life Carriers. Why is up to us to clean up the genetic mess of life plasm experimentation? And I mean no disrespect to our brothers on High, but why is it now up to a gene pool was failed, not only once, but was failed in remedial uplifting by Adam and Eves default? Are we better at experimenting with DNA than the designers of DNA??

Hi Louis, I certainly can't answer for the Life Carriers or Melchizedeks or the Most Highs... But it seems to me that the effects of Adam and Eve's default are essentially temporary. We did receive a sufficient contribution to ensure the survival and development of mankind (at least in those places of the Earth where the current biological levels can be preserved - which is absolutely not guaranteed of course). But there was no doubt a secondary reason for allowing 3/4 of the children of Adam and Eve to be removed from this planet during the evacuation of the First Eden. We're not exactly told by the revelators that it will be so, but it seems entirely fitting that once the world has turned the corner and the danger has passed of the world's civilizations becoming destroyed or deteriorating and real spiritual ideals begin infecting large amounts of inhabitants, that the Adamic children and their offspring may be transported to the Earth again to take place in the uplift of humanity.

I can only hope that you are right, Steve. I wonder if that uplifting will be by the good old fashion way of breeding.

Good questions and implications, where It might indicate from the “Life Carriers” in the following section, that their involvement is more biologic rather than genetic, because genetics would be affected by breeding, and more suited to the experience of Adam and Eve, and also that Urantia was the extreme in experimentation in the system.
Yet, it would seem that it is left up to use to help, intellectually, wherever possible from dealing with our experience and wisdom over time, to work in unity, to resolve our difficulties?

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5. Life-Evolution Vicissitudes

(736.4) 65:5.1 It was a source of regret to the Life Carriers that our special efforts to modify intelligent life on Urantia should have been so handicapped by tragic perversions beyond our control: the Caligastia betrayal and the Adamic default.

First it should be noted that this section of the UB was “[Sponsored by a Life Carrier of Nebadon resident on Urantia. - (740.3) 65:8.7], where in the UB quote above which indicates “regret” “that our special efforts” where “handicapped” – (“to subject to a disadvantageous handicap, as a competitor of recognized superiority”) being both “Caligastia” who was noted to have experience with the “Life Carriers”, and Adam and Eve’s assumed default from the normal process of the “Life Carries” where by admission “to modify intelligent life”, which begs to question why they would wish to “modify” what they already considered “intelligent life” through some form of “tragic perversions” – where in “Pathology. a change to what is unnatural or abnormal: a perversion of function or structure.” might indicate that the “Life Carriers” “source of regret” is their “special” modifications, which would have been prior to the noted actions of default.

Therefore, if we look at the following UB quote, the “greatest disappointment” or “regret” was not due to the previous defaults but might indicate that the previous “regret” might have been, not being able to see if their “special” modifications would function as expected but, as indicated below “grew out of the reversion of certain primitive plant life” to be “extensive and unexpected”. Now the statement where they state that this “caused many distressful diseases in the higher mammals, particularly in the more vulnerable human species” would indicate that abnormal circumstances were at play which were “beyond” their “control”.

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(736.5) 65:5.2 But throughout all of this biologic adventure our greatest disappointment grew out of the reversion of certain primitive plant life to the prechlorophyll levels of parasitic bacteria on such an extensive and unexpected scale. This eventuality in plant-life evolution caused many distressful diseases in the higher mammals, particularly in the more vulnerable human species. When we were confronted with this perplexing situation, we somewhat discounted the difficulties involved because we knew that the subsequent admixture of the Adamic life plasm would so reinforce the resisting powers of the resulting blended race as to make it practically immune to all diseases produced by the vegetable type of organism. But our hopes were doomed to disappointment owing to the misfortune of the Adamic default.

Now what makes the statement above even more “perplexing” where when they state that “we somewhat discounted the difficulties involved” would indicate they assumed that the reinforcing “resisting powers” or antigens injected by “the Adamic life plasm” would act as a acquired immune system which should have acted as vaccinations, but would or may have been modified after the fact, where these diseases were already plaguing the population. Then to indicate that it was specifically the “Adamic default” which caused their “disappointment” would indicate that the “Life Carriers” had no factual evidence, but only hoped that their “special” modifications would work?

It would appear that when we take the situations which the world now is dealing with, is primarily affecting the female population where “autoimmune diseases” have dominated most, and not to mention that most of the identified genetic disorders have been identified to the “X” chromosome.

So under normal conditions the Adamic children would be the ones who would present these “immune” qualities to the general populous but, it would seem that as a result of the “Adamic default” they may have been spared possible, unexpected mutations, and that it would require the direct infusion of the “Adamic life plasm” to bypass the normal process because it was found that the populous had been infected by an abnormal process, previously introduced.

Quote:
(736.6) 65:5.3 The universe of universes, including this small world called Urantia, is not being managed merely to meet our approval nor just to suit our convenience, much less to gratify our whims and satisfy our curiosity. The wise and all-powerful beings who are responsible for universe management undoubtedly know exactly what they are about; and so it becomes Life Carriers and behooves mortal minds to enlist in patient waiting and hearty co-operation with the rule of wisdom, the reign of power, and the march of progress.

What I found an unusual statement above is when indicated “and so it becomes Life Carriers” where “Life Carriers” in this case becomes various carriers which “mortal minds” should “enlist in” to use their acquired “wisdom” to cooperate with the powers that be, to help resolve these issues.

Quote:
(736.7) 65:5.4 There are, of course, certain compensations for tribulation, such as Michael’s bestowal on Urantia. But irrespective of all such considerations, the later celestial supervisors of this planet express complete confidence in the ultimate evolutionary triumph of the human race and in the eventual vindication of our original plans and life patterns.

Then there is the admission presented by the “Life Carriers” that by indicating that they would eventually be vindicated for having presented into Urantia, their (“our”) “original plans and life patterns”, would imply wishful thinking?
Also one might think about what was meant by, or who it was directed too when mentioning “the later celestial supervisors of this planet” who “without regard to something else, especially something specified; ignoring or discounting” the aforementioned narration or events on Urantia are confident “in the ultimate evolutionary triumph of the human race”.
PS: It would also seem that due to our "tribulation" we were compensated by "Michael's bestowal" which would seem to imply that we were singled out for specific reasons? Which might also be coo berated when Jesus indicated a form of trust, where if one did not trust someone, why would He say, to "get behind Me", as in, follow Me?


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Very interesting analysis, Cal. O:)


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A very disturbing analysis Cal.


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Yes, Cal's analysis is interesting. And disturbing. It does advertise evil. So the point is made. We are a illegitimate child race, molested, deformed, prone to disease, physical and most significantly mentally oppressed with doubt. Retarded and backward. Definitely handicapped. And all because our celestial supervisors, created not that much higher than human, dropped the ball along the way.

So what!

I am honored to be blind, deaf and also through a difficult "family" situation, have experienced unspeakable things. Because most of us by far will succeed in achieving God's will under these conditions, in the future and on many worlds to come, we will possess a rare value. We will be the only ones able to perform God's will in difficult but necessary circumstances that "normal" ascenders won't.

I await my call to service! :biggrin:


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There are so many people that step up, face their difficulties and demonstrate to themselves, the world and God how to deal with what they are dealt - the Agondonters of our universe.
Anybody read the book by Viktor Frankl "Mans search for Meaning"??
I believe that everyone has this sort of inner strength. What does it take to bring it out? Does it always need to be difficulties?
If so then difficulty must certainly be our destiny, no?


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Nelsong wrote:
There are so many people that step up, face their difficulties and demonstrate to themselves, the world and God how to deal with what they are dealt - the Agondonters of our universe.
Anybody read the book by Viktor Frankl "Mans search for Meaning"??
I believe that everyone has this sort of inner strength. What does it take to bring it out? Does it always need to be difficulties?
If so then difficulty must certainly be our destiny, no?

I have pondered this question many times. And I've always settled in my mind that the answer is yes. We are being trained to be members of a unit of special forces. But this service isn't mandatory, it's optional.


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Yes, Man's Search for Meaning is a worthwhile read. It's as if trying material circumstances expose the hollowness of material security, enabling the spirit to spring forth and nurture the soul. The Father is the vine.

Cal-- more innuendo. The Life Carriers said they knew the Adamic life plasm would bring necessary resistance to the unexpected development of the parasitic bacteria. They did not suspect, hope, or guess. They knew. They regret the transactions of the Caligastia upheavel and Adamic default much like a parent regrets a child's bad behavior in school or stubborn refusal to listen to wisdom. Circumstances that are quite simply out of their control.

I'm not sure I follow what you are trying to say with your reference to the current affliction of "autoimmune disorders." First, I assume you mean things like Lupus, IBD, MS, Hashimoto's, etc. Most are characterized by overactive immune systems attacking parts of the body. They are special cases where there may be decreased resistance to parasitic bacteria because the immune system is already swamped. The text seems to indicate to me that they are talking about general decreased resistance capacity in all humans, not those with immune disorders. A lot of "healthy" people die from these infections every day. No special disorder is required. Anyway, how is this germane to the topic?


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Howdy All 8)

Interesting stuff

Albeit our brother aka Caligastia

brings some interesting and controversial thoughts
to topics here .

He does make me think n re think some things

yet.

Im Curious my brother aka Caligastia

Why do you often seem so Negative ?

Maybe its just Me ?

Dont you believe its a friendly universe?

Or that the ascenscion plan is Real ?


Last edited by coop on Sat Aug 22, 2015 12:55 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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'' We are being trained to be members of a unit of special forces. But this service isn't mandatory, it's optional.''

nodAmanaV :wink:

True , I Like that

AMEN


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Nelsong wrote:
There are so many people that step up, face their difficulties and demonstrate to themselves, the world and God how to deal with what they are dealt - the Agondonters of our universe.
Anybody read the book by Viktor Frankl "Mans search for Meaning"??
I believe that everyone has this sort of inner strength. What does it take to bring it out? Does it always need to be difficulties?
If so then difficulty must certainly be our destiny, no?


148:6.2 “My son, you do not comprehend the meaning of adversity or the mission of suffering. Have you not read that masterpiece of Semitic literature—the Scripture story of the afflictions of Job? Do you not recall how this wonderful parable begins with the recital of the material prosperity of the Lord's servant? You well remember that Job was blessed with children, wealth, dignity, position, health, and everything else which men value in this temporal life. According to the time-honored teachings of the children of Abraham such material prosperity was all-sufficient evidence of divine favor. But such material possessions and such temporal prosperity do not indicate God's favor. My Father in heaven loves the poor just as much as the rich; he is no respecter of persons.


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54:6.10 (620.2) As you ascend in the survival experience, you will broaden your universe concepts and extend your horizon of meanings and values; and thus will you be able the better to understand. You will also better comprehend how ultimate (if not immediate) good can be derived from time-limited evil. After you attain Paradise, you will really be enlightened and comforted when you listen to the superaphic philosophers discuss and explain these profound problems of universe adjustment. But even then, I doubt that you will be fully satisfied in your own minds. At least I was not even when I had thus attained the acme of universe philosophy. I did not achieve a full comprehension of these complexities until after I had been assigned to administrative duties in the superuniverse, where by actual experience I have acquired conceptual capacity adequate for the comprehension of such many-sided problems in cosmic equity and spiritual philosophy. As you ascend Paradiseward, you will increasingly learn that many problematic features of universe administration can only be comprehended subsequent to the acquirement of increased experiential capacity and to the achievement of enhanced spiritual insight. Cosmic wisdom is essential to the understanding of cosmic situations. :D

54:6.11 (620.3) [Presented by a Mighty Messenger of experiential survival in the first system rebellion in the universes of time now attached to the superuniverse government of Orvonton ]

***

22:2.3 (245.3) Every ascendant mortal of insurrectionary experience who functions loyally in the face of rebellion is eventually destined to become a Mighty Messenger of the superuniverse service. Likewise is any ascendant creature who effectively prevents such upheavals of error, evil, or sin; for action designed to prevent rebellion or to effect higher types of loyalty in a universe crisis is regarded as of even greater value than loyalty in the face of actual rebellion.

22:2.6 (245.6) I am a Mighty Messenger, and it may interest Urantians to know that the companion and associate of my mortal experience was also triumphant in the great test, and that, though we were many times and for long periods separated in the agelong inward ascent to Havona, we were embraced in the same seven-hundred-thousand group, and that we spent our time passing through Vicegerington in close and loving association. We were finally commissioned and together assigned to Uversa of Orvonton, and we are often dispatched in company for the execution of assignments requiring the services of two Messengers.


Last edited by nodAmanaV on Sat Aug 22, 2015 2:50 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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coop wrote:
Why do you often seem so Negative ?

By what means do you think that my presentations are "negative"?
My memory allows me to cross reference UB data, which is presented, with the addition of text searching and attempting to ascertain the meaning or possible definitions of words used in the UB but not found outright in the English language, where many standard words can have multiple meanings which should be determined based on there usage in context. Therefore, when one person reads a section or paragraph in the UB, I may also read it as they may have perceived it but often after reading the entire paragraph or section much of the information seems less related to the base subject. Many of the words used seem out of place and otherwise unnecessary in making the general point, and when a word has several possible means it is difficult to ascertain what the authors may have intended based on the level of their understanding and or the reader's.
By braking down the sentence structure some of the normal definitions of these words can take on numerous meanings, some of which when presented with different meaning can seem negative but, are just a different way of reading comprehension.
When there appears to be a grammatical contradiction, I take that to indicate that there might be more to the narration then would be understood as simply read, thereby I actually study the text in relation to the other text presented in the UB.

So your point that I seem negative, is only in relation to positive, where it would be easier to say that I seem more opposite to the average understanding or comprehension. Also, sometimes it is difficult to force oneself to regress to a normal or average way of thinking just to socially fit in with the norm.

coop wrote:
Dont you believe its a friendly universe?

Since I only have this planets past history and its current events to judge whether something is "friendly" or not, it would be premature for me to assume that the entire universe is a friendly place. Although from what we can ascertain from the workings of the cosmology of the universe it would seem that it can be a hostile environment for humans without having experienced the environment of other places or planets in this universe. Also, if we take for granted that this planet and its material solar system was created by a monarchist civilization and that they refuse to take material possession or control of their creation, would lead me to believe that we must assume that we are less in control then is believed, and that if true, a margin call may be forthcoming in the future.
So the better question would be, is this a friendly planet?

coop wrote:
Or that the ascenscion plan is Real ?

As we might ascertain from the UB, we can only assume that an ascension plan is in place, because as indicated in order to find out we would need to die, and be able to determine from the aftermath or after-product of this death, to be able to validate such proof. However, from experience it would seem that time is unrelated to space and that reality is more than a personal understanding which may not be shared through experience alone. Then, if there is a plan for ascension, what would be the destination or objective? That is assuming that in order to ascend, one must be below a certain point or at the bottom, which would place a limit to either up or down, some finite points?


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Caligastia wrote:
coop wrote:
Why do you often seem so Negative ?

By what means do you think that my presentations are "negative"?
My memory allows me to cross reference UB data, which is presented, with the addition of text searching and attempting to ascertain the meaning or possible definitions of words used in the UB but not found outright in the English language, where many standard words can have multiple meanings which should be determined based on there usage in context. Therefore, when one person reads a section or paragraph in the UB, I may also read it as they may have perceived it but often after reading the entire paragraph or section much of the information seems less related to the base subject. Many of the words used seem out of place and otherwise unnecessary in making the general point, and when a word has several possible means it is difficult to ascertain what the authors may have intended based on the level of their understanding and or the reader's.
By braking down the sentence structure some of the normal definitions of these words can take on numerous meanings, some of which when presented with different meaning can seem negative but, are just a different way of reading comprehension.
When there appears to be a grammatical contradiction, I take that to indicate that there might be more to the narration then would be understood as simply read, thereby I actually study the text in relation to the other text presented in the UB.

So your point that I seem negative, is only in relation to positive, where it would be easier to say that I seem more opposite to the average understanding or comprehension. Also, sometimes it is difficult to force oneself to regress to a normal or average way of thinking just to socially fit in with the norm.

coop wrote:
Dont you believe its a friendly universe?

Since I only have this planets past history and its current events to judge whether something is "friendly" or not, it would be premature for me to assume that the entire universe is a friendly place. Although from what we can ascertain from the workings of the cosmology of the universe it would seem that it can be a hostile environment for humans without having experienced the environment of other places or planets in this universe. Also, if we take for granted that this planet and its material solar system was created by a monarchist civilization and that they refuse to take material possession or control of their creation, would lead me to believe that we must assume that we are less in control then is believed, and that if true, a margin call may be forthcoming in the future.
So the better question would be, is this a friendly planet?

coop wrote:
Or that the ascenscion plan is Real ?

As we might ascertain from the UB, we can only assume that an ascension plan is in place, because as indicated in order to find out we would need to die, and be able to determine from the aftermath or after-product of this death, to be able to validate such proof. However, from experience it would seem that time is unrelated to space and that reality is more than a personal understanding which may not be shared through experience alone. Then, if there is a plan for ascension, what would be the destination or objective? That is assuming that in order to ascend, one must be below a certain point or at the bottom, which would place a limit to either up or down, some finite points?

123:2.3 (1357.7) Jesus was five years old in August of this year, and we will, therefore, refer to this as his fifth (calendar) year of life. In this year, 2 B.C., a little more than one month before his fifth birthday anniversary, Jesus was made very happy by the coming of his sister Miriam, who was born on the night of July 11. During the evening of the following day Jesus had a long talk with his father concerning the manner in which various groups of living things are born into the world as separate individuals. The most valuable part of Jesus’ early education was secured from his parents in answer to his thoughtful and searching inquiries. Joseph never failed to do his full duty in taking pains and spending time answering the boy’s numerous questions. From the time Jesus was five years old until he was ten, he was one continuous question mark. While Joseph and Mary could not always answer his questions, they never failed fully to discuss his inquiries and in every other possible way to assist him in his efforts to reach a satisfactory solution of the problem which his alert mind had suggested.


Cal, I think what coop and others, certainly myself, are oh what's the word - consternated (maybe to strong of a word) about is that you take the whole thing to such an extreme! My man, our Planetary Prince went to far with his too many questions, and look what happened! I mean, why the "aitsagilaC" identity?

I don't know, you have every right to ask anything you like of course, I support this. Even if you have a need to turn the thing inside-out, upside-down, shine a colored light on it, whatever, I support it. But the text is written in a clear way, to register in our minds spiritually so the mind agencies at work in our being can get to the chase without wasting too much time. I know there's room for interpretation but . . .

Sometimes reading your posts feels like a bad roller coaster ride. But I'm entertained. Thanks for being here! :biggrin:


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quil wrote:
Cal-- more innuendo. The Life Carriers said they knew the Adamic life plasm would bring necessary resistance to the unexpected development of the parasitic bacteria. They did not suspect, hope, or guess. They knew. They regret the transactions of the Caligastia upheavel and Adamic default much like a parent regrets a child's bad behavior in school or stubborn refusal to listen to wisdom. Circumstances that are quite simply out of their control.

"quil", one must remember that "knew" is the past tense of "know", where in the sentence where this word is used, was also preceded by "we somewhat discounted the difficulties involved because", where if they "know" that "the subsequent admixture of the Adamic life plasm would so reinforce the resisting powers of the resulting blended race", they would not have said, "But our hopes were doomed"; why would they have hoped for success if they "know" what would have occurred? In this case, they "knew" that under normal circumstances, in past experiences, that normal implantation would yield the desired product but, at the time that they had performed these modifications, which was a very long time prior to their realization that something abnormal would occur, prior to the continuation of a normal plan, which they changed in advance. When they said "we" "discounted the difficulty", indicates that they did not take into account any possible difficulty which might occur in the future because they presumed an expected result from their modifications, which did not occur.
Also, if you research that when vaccines are created they are intended to prevent a problem in advance, not to cure an existing problem which has already presented it ugly head. Over a period of time even antibodies which manifest themselves after plagues are not the same and have in all likelihood mutated, which would alter any original antigen ineffective because of the changes after the fact of infection.
Similar to what they believe they have created to prevent the Ebola virus from infecting subjects, which is a vaccine, which would only help prevent new cases, not cure current cases.


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nodAmanaV wrote:
Cal, I think what coop and others, certainly myself, are oh what's the word - consternated (maybe to strong of a word) about is that you take the whole thing to such an extreme!

You may very well be correct in your assumption but, how much more consternating would it be to give a "Yes" or "No" answer to questions which are personal, without presenting a "why" or "maybe" response, in order to quell such future questions. Notwithstanding that there are no such things as simple questions, where in presenting a simple answer should present to the inquirer, the follow up question, why, which from my experience is not always forthcoming, therefore making the original question unnecessary? In simple terms, if I answered yes or no to any of those questions, I'd be lying.


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