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Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2014 5:42 am +0000
Posts: 282
Greetings!

Some of you know me, and some do not. To those who do, hello to you again. To those who don't, I'm a pesky Orthodox Jew who is reading this book, and finding it VERY interesting. It offers the most intriguing look at the Afterlife of any book or theory I've ever come across, and one that I find decidedly believable, and attractive. Its take on human history is decidedly problematic, but still worth reading. I've decided to more or less accept some of the book, and not all of it, simply because its one of those things that you read, get effing mad at it, throw it against the wall, and then end up picking it up again and going back for more! I am taking online courses right now in the book, and finding them decidedly interesting. All of my classmates are believers, dyed in the wool types. But they appreciate my take on things as well.

So what do you people think? Can a person be fairly of two minds about the book? For a long time I thought the book was pure BS, but now I realise that there is something to it. Talk to me people!
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Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:17 am +0000
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You fit in just fine, Brother Yaakov. We are not to be uniform in thought but united in Spirit. We all have a unique point of view. We all have a unique personality. There is something for everyone in this unique book. You can pick and choose, it is your right. Nothing is meant to be swallowed whole.

Peace

PS Welcome back. I myself am a prodigal son returning from banishment (Louis). O:)
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Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:09 am +0000
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Location: Jacksonville, FL
Good to see you here again, brother Yaakov. What I can say is you are on your own unique journey. Just be patient and continue reading the book. Everyone of us who have read the book has gotten something valuable from the book that made us a better person and we are all still learning from it perhaps as long as we live. So you are not alone in this journey but each one has his own unique experience and point of view. But as brother Louis said, we are all united in spirit.
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Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2003 8:59 pm +0000
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Location: North Dakota
Yaakov,

Your post brought this quote to mind.
Quote:
137:2.7 Philip led Nathaniel to Jesus, who, looking benignly into the face of the sincere doubter, said: “Behold a genuine Israelite, in whom there is no deceit. Follow me."


Welcome, no matter how "died in the wool" we may think we are, we are all partial believers.

Jim
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Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
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While I am certainly not indifferent to your struggle Brother Yaakov, I am reminded of how long I was in the same boat. And I think most of those/us "dyed in the wool believers" spent a long time in the vat, struggling with our own preconceptions and prejudices and reorganization of perspective, before any confidence came in the claims of the UB's authors and authority.

One thing that kept me in the book was its clear claim that nothing within its covers is required for our spirit progress and eternal adventure. It does not demand, require, or even request such belief....while it does lead the mind, one bread crumb of truth at a time, merrily up the pilgrim's path of discovery and appreciation for truth, beauty, and goodness. Surely that is good enough reason to enjoy time in the text?

Welcome back and thanks for the update. Peace be to you....and hope you find cause to keep reading.

Brad
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Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2014 5:42 am +0000
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Greetings to all who replied:

I appreciate your various responses to my post. I am indeed finding the book fascinating, albeit difficult to accept in certain aspects. However, I think that in much of it, I shall simply have to accept that I cannot accept it, and take the parts that I can accept. Perhaps the old Quaker dictum, "Where the Scripture speaks, we speak, and where the Scripture is silent, we are silent," may be of some assistance, in the sense that the Scripture says very little about many topics that the UB speaks VOLUMES on, and in those realms, I am free to take from it what I will, but where the Scripture and the UB disagree, I can take Scripture as primary (by "Scripture" I refer to the Hebrew Bible, of course).

Mind you, this is all preliminary. I can't speak about where my mind might go in the future with this very interesting and fascinating book. At present, I have lost my hostility toward the book, and at least opened my thoughts toward what it might have to say to me on certain levels, at any rate. Naturally, I shall continue to read, and study in my online classes, of course. In fact, I had best get to that. I have some more homework to do for my current course.
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Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 5:02 am +0000
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Hello Yaakov,

I've been noticing your posts here and I'm curious, have you finished reading the book yet?
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Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:17 am +0000
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Yaakov001 wrote:
Greetings!

Some of you know me, and some do not. To those who do, hello to you again. To those who don't, I'm a pesky Orthodox Jew who is reading this book, and finding it VERY interesting. It offers the most intriguing look at the Afterlife of any book or theory I've ever come across, and one that I find decidedly believable, and attractive. Its take on human history is decidedly problematic, but still worth reading. I've decided to more or less accept some of the book, and not all of it, simply because its one of those things that you read, get effing mad at it, throw it against the wall, and then end up picking it up again and going back for more! I am taking online courses right now in the book, and finding them decidedly interesting. All of my classmates are believers, dyed in the wool types. But they appreciate my take on things as well.

So what do you people think? Can a person be fairly of two minds about the book? For a long time I thought the book was pure BS, but now I realise that there is something to it. Talk to me people!



Please reflect on where you would be now if you had not even given this book a chance. What made you open up to the ideas it portrays? Has the reading of the book enhanced your existing Faith?

All faiths have had a tendency of making an idol of their sacred scriptures. Do you see this happening with TUB in general and you in particular, and why?

Peace
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Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 1:18 pm +0000
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Hello Yaakov,

You fit in with all people who have struggled between a new revelation and their inherited faith. Similar struggles occurred when Galileo learned that Earth was not the center of the universe. These struggles also occurred when science proved that evolution was a fact, and the geological record showed the planet we reside on was billions of years old. They occur on a daily basis when a man tries to reconcile God's infinite love and goodness with the disasters of time. In the end, truth is truth and it cannot be refuted except by those who choose to ignore reality.

Let it be clear that I am not proposing you are ignoring reality. You are seeking to learn the truth, and you are blessed by an honest heart and circumstances which led you to develop an open mind. I applaud your bravery.

Yes, it is possible to be of two minds about the book. I would hope that a sincere soul would regard any piece of spiritual literature with a sense of caution. Without this caution, what is to prevent you from believing just about anything?

I understand your problem in regards to human history in the Urantia Book. I, personally, believe every word at this time. Yet one of the most difficult questions I ever had to answer came from my girlfriend: How could I believe the Urantia Book's depiction of human history, given what I know about the archaeological record? Her honesty is one of the reasons I love her so much. At first, I had difficulty answering this, and was actually a little offended. Then my better sense took hold. I gave her this answer, in summation:

IF it is proven without a shadow of a doubt that the history in the Urantia Book is flawed, then it would not change my opinion of it as Revelation. The reason is because the Revelators told us that if we lacked a mental universe frame with which to operate in, we would invariably create one. Similar to the way certain fantastic stories in the Bible could not have happened given the scientific understanding we now have, that does not detract from their moral and spiritual value; that the Revelators, with their superior wisdom, deemed it wise to provide searching souls with the best answer they could give us without giving us unearned or premature knowledge. Maybe something very similar to what they describe happened, and this is the closest approximation they can give us while still retaining as much spiritual truth as possible. All those things are small compared to the great truths the Urantia Book has revealed.

There are various quotes I could give to support this claim, and I am sure others will disagree with me. That is ok, as I do not agree with that opinion myself. Yet the Urantia Book asks for unity, not uniformity. Yes, it is possible to be of two minds about the Book, as I have just demonstrated by the fact that I am of two minds about the literalness of the Book itself!

In all your decisions regarding the book, be brave. If God is for you, who can be against you? If you are for God, He will honor your faithfulness. I hope that, regardless of the answers you finally settle upon, your soul is satisfied with what you have found. May God guide you brother.
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Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:07 am +0000
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Hi LWatson, is it Larry?

I'm very, very curious about what could possibly be even the slightest problem that an archeologist might see with information divulged in TUB. I would suspect it's not evidence per se. That is, I'm not aware of *ANY* archeological evidence that seriously contends with the revelator's descriptions. Just the opposite. TUB has revealed certain specific locations that have a profound bearing on the development of mankind that were either unknown or entirely unappreciated until very recently.

But of course, that's a lot more than evidence that very many of today's science practitioners are influenced by: interpretations, assumptions, peer pressure, paradigm fixation, etc.,
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Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 1:18 pm +0000
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Hello Riktare,

Sorry for the confusion, but I'm not Larry.
I'm not an archaeologist, so I wouldn't know if there was any evidence that would refute the Urania Book, though I doubt there is.
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Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 7:28 am +0000
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Makes me think about paper 136 where Jesus spent much time alone in the hills formulating his ministry.
It was a process of his (I call it somewhat skeptical but certainly his human mind) mind questioning with sincerity and recieving divine answers.
Six big decisions were made as a result.
It changed him as a person, solidified his plans.
If this were only the mind of the divine Jesus, it would have taken much less than 40 days, likely he would have known without the need to ask.
This process is available to all of us IMHO.
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