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fanofVan wrote:
We are told by the revelators that we do, indeed, need epochal revelation and that the mortal epochal transformation evolution is served and dependent upon epochal, as well as personal, revelation.


Perhaps the planet needs Epochal Revelation, but not the individual. The person has all they need in the Spirit ministries. Personal revelation is not what TUB is about.

fanofVan wrote:
Louis again denies and defies the text clearly.


TUB is not a ministry. To assert such a thing is idolatrous.


fanofVan wrote:
This book is to become a common book for common folk over centuries and many generations to come we are told and is a tool of truth and a torch of light to our world.


Perhaps you will forge the way towards worship of TUB?

fanofVan wrote:
Louis, the revelation obviously has not touched and transformed your life sufficiently for you to appreciate its value and derive meaning but your constant criticism of it and belittlements are a wonder....why then attend here? Why read it? What is your agenda? A not so subtle debunker and doubt seed sower? It is but dead words of ink on paper to you so why bother yourself with it and about it?


You do not know the effects of TUB has had on me and it is presumptuous of you to comment. TUB cannot add an ounce of Faith to the Faithful. The gift of Faith is from God. God gives all to all. And He gives it now, to each generation and every individual. Therefore, what is left to give? I worship God and God alone.


fanofVan wrote:
Such flippant disparagement for something so important is one's right of course. And the book, itself, clearly says those with faith have that which will lead them home.


I do not disparage what the book claims or what its words represent, I simply do not give it the Living Truth status that you do. TUB claims not to be infallible. You insist on the worship of word meanings. This is an attitude reserved for God. The Bible became an idolatrous fetish because of people like you that claimed it was the literal Word of God. And you defend TUB vociferously, as if your deity were offended. Am I committing blasphemy because I see TUB as a collection of certain facts and certain truths? Your new friend, Van Amadon, called TUB an announcement. Does TUB proclaim all of the fact and the whole truth?

Yes, I do deny that TUB is all of the facts, and Absolute Truth. You, on the other hand, are treating TUB as Deity.



fanofVan wrote:
This presentation of guilt and innocence and evidence and hearsay and justice and injustice belittles God and his universe. It is so typical of man to reduce god into our own image and ascribe our own limitations and frailties and faults upon Deity. Are we to think God does not know the minds and heart and intent and sincerity of every creature high and low? We are told otherwise. Does Michael not rule his universe as God's Creator Son, now Master Son with full authority and integrity and wisdom and love? Are we to fear false accusation, false witness, hearsay, and lack of facts might lead to injustice and wrongful outcomes? Is that what your "faith" leads you to believe Louis? What faith leads to such a fearful paranoia about this friendly universe ruled by divine love and mercy?


So, you say that I can belittle God by commenting on TUB? We are bestowed personality by Father and given a fragment of Father to dwell in our minds. God is not a respecter of persons. Can we not have an opinion and disagreement with celestial personalities? Have we no status at all? We can respect an older brother without being in lock step agreement. To you, Brad, it is blasphemous because you have made TUB an idol.

There is nothing to fear, and you should not fear any comments made on TUB nor should you fear the questioning of TUB.



My Faith does not lead me to believe anything, Brad. My faith leads me to certainty. You, Brad, can believe that TUB is The Word of The Living God. But I will say to you that you will have made a idol of words on paper.



fanofVan wrote:
This humanization of the heavenly abode is most unfortunate.....a form of transference of mortal onto divine.



The ascension career indeed transforms the human, TA indwelling mortal, into the divine. What you are doing here, Brad, is transforming the material into the Divine. There is a word meaning for that and a commandment, "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven images".

Does TUB have a Thought Adjuster??? Does TUB have a personality??? :( Is there any reason, Brad, that you should respect a book above a brother? :shock:


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Johnnybones wrote:
… TUB claims not to be infallible. …
Louis – TUB does not claim "not to be infallible". You are a troll, Louis. That’s clear to see. Telling lies and putting words into the mouth of others are very simple techniques to irritate people so they will respond, which may be all that you are after. In the process you disrupt normal discussion.

What does it do for you? Does it make you feel somehow superior? You shouldn’t. You are acting like a child. Is it your agenda to disrupt this board? Then success may depend on how much longer the mods will tolerate you, or on how much longer people will respond to your provocations, it’s usually best to ignore a troll in order to make him leave..


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fanofVan wrote:
Fear not and put your trust in God - he will not fail us in our faith.


We are not uniform in thought, Brad, but as to what you say above, we are united in spirit. Have a nice vacation. :smile:

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Bart wrote:
Johnnybones wrote:
… TUB claims not to be infallible. …

Louis – TUB does not claim "not to be infallible". [. . .]

Actually "infallible" is a rather finite word but, in the text of TUB, there are various phrases which have been written which can definitely be ascertained that by their use and printing, it can be claimed that there is a possibility for "fallibility".

“We think” – (9:2.1), (12:3.11), (12:4.3), (13:0.6), (19:5.9), (31:0.8), (161:2.4), (188:3.9).

“I think” – (2:5.7), (2:5.8), (3:6.6).

“we do not really know” – (10:7.3), (12:6.7), (19:5.6), (19:5.9), (55:6.5), (113:3.6), (188:3.4).

“we surmise” – (12:6.7), (29:3.12), (31:3.5).

“But this is merely our opinion” – (188:3.4).

“our opinion” – (149:1.4), (149:1.8).

“We believe” – (1:1.1), (6:0.4), (9:6.8), (21:6.1), (21:6.3), (21:6.4), (22:7.7), (24:7.1), (24:7.8), (53:9.7), (55:12.3), (56:9.4), (106:7.5), (106:7.10), (107:7.4), (108:3.7), (112:7.17), (115:6.8), (117:3.11), (117:5.10), (117:7.1), (117:7.15), (118:10.23), (119:8.7), (149:1.4), (161:2.4), (161:2.10), (188:3.8).

“we are not sure” – (107:2.5), (115:6.8).

“We are not exactly certain” – (117:5.10).

“we conjecture” – (9:7.4), (17:6.10), (31:9.6), (31:9.7), (55:4.19), (55:6.5), (107:3.1), (108:1.1), (108:2.11), (113:3.6).

“It seems evident” – (31:3.8).

“we are not certain” – (0:10.1), (11:5.4), (31:0.8), (55:12.4).

“We are taught” – (6:0.4), (9:7.4), (10:3.2), (13:3.2), (21:6.1), (40:10.3), (44:4.3), (56:9.4), (106:8.17), (117:5.14).


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I think this conversation is touching upon the fundamental necessity of trust in the presentation of the FER. To question the motives of the revelators is really the same as questioning those of the Prince before he fell, and the motives of Adam and Eve, Machiventa Melchizedek, even the motives of Jesus.

Each of these prior bestowals also required the exercise of faith of the inhabitants of this planet for full realization. Despite its uniqueness in form as an epochal revelation (being a book instead of a personality), TUB is really no different than the other interventions in this regard. At the end of the day, you have to trust that it is what it says it is-- just like people must ultimately trust that Jesus is the Son of God, that the Melchizedek incarnation was real and that his teachings regarding the Most Highs are true, that Adam and Eve were sent to us from another world (and that the blood pumping through your veins can be traced back to them), and that the Prince was really here despite being invisible to mortals.

That the Papers were sanctioned by the rulers on high and were attached with the same significance as prior epochal revelations is enough for me to take the contents within it at face value. Despite its obvious incompleteness, TUB contains enough truth to build a solid worldview for my lifetime on this rock. So in that respect, it is definitely a "whole" truth. I use it as a lens and when I do, it provides me clarity unparalleled in any other philosophy.

That said, I do not zealously savor over every character of the text or regard the work in itself as a holy writ never to be questioned. I don't think anybody here is saying that either, and those who claim such assertions have been made are twisting other peoples' words. It's a book. It presents a harmonious worldview of many personalities. It's up to you whether to choose to see things like them.

With respect to Lucifer, Satan, Caligastia, Daligastia and the rest of the fallen, in this phase of existence I suspect we're not even close to fully comprehending the scope of the travesty they sowed, so I find no animosity toward them in my heart. But neither do I have any sympathy toward them, given what I've seen going on here on this planet as partial result of their actions. Frankly, it's all above my pay grade.

It seems Cal, Louis, and maybe others here simply don't trust TUB's contents as much as some of us do. It's always going to be up to the individual and I personally do not fear what conclusions others draw based on these supposedly dangerous musings. I am inclined to believe, inspired by how the universe rulers were counseled at the outbreak of the rebellion, that giving full light to this line of thinking will ultimately reveal its vaporous nature. Full disclosure of these discordant strands of reasoning will invariably and inevitably lead any genuine seeker to an even fuller confidence that the Truth as we need to know it is presented well enough in TUB to trust it over one or two wayward thoughts expressed on an Internet forum.

In other words, I think most people will see through the BS being peddled here. If people are led astray by sympathies espoused in this thread, then they are obviously weak-minded and eventually would be led astray by something else. Should they genuinely seek the truth, rest assured their hearts will eventually find it.


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quil wrote:
In other words, I think most people will see through the BS being peddled here. If people are led astray by sympathies espoused in this thread, then they are obviously weak-minded and eventually would be led astray by something else. Should they genuinely seek the truth, rest assured their hearts will eventually find it.


Thank you "quil" for your presentation where I also thank you for your opinion of my "obviously weak-minded" nature, and your prediction that I will "eventually would be led astray", where I am not sure what the "something else", might be? However when you say "people are led astray by sympathies espoused in this thread," are you indicating "a non condemning mercy" toward fictional characters, when you present the word "sympathies"? Because in your previous words in your post you sight "Lucifer, Satan, Caligastia, Daligastia and the rest of the fallen" where I ask you, by what "fact" do you propose that these characters actually existed? By what proof do you condemn them if you have only perceived of their existence in books or written presentation; and to also include "the rest of the fallen" as a generalization, not knowing, beyond a shadow of doubt their activity or active involvement in any wrong doing, other than having "fallen"? What was their crime, exactly? Were they convicted be reason of association? Where they also "weak-minded", and if I told you that I fathered three handicapped children because of birth defects which undoubtedly was not do to their doing, would you blame Adam and Eve for having defaulted? Or, would you allow them to die because the doctors took it upon themselves to not tell their parents that there might be some medical procedure which could help make their lives better or more normal, but rather say and do nothing, whereby their death would be imminent by saying nothing? Would these Doctor's be taking God's will into their own hands through "sympathy" for the parents or because they think themselves as God?
So, I don't see all of your reasoning behind what you have said, but I do acknowledge your right to say them. Therefore, ask only to project my "weak-minded" opinion to those who may have experienced similar events in their lives and would hope that there is still some "sympathy" in the hearts and minds of those who will not stand aside while others willfully dominate others just because they read it in a book, or haven't read all the medical books after leaving medical school.


Last edited by Caligastia on Fri May 29, 2015 3:34 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Cal, I was referencing the previously stated concern by some in this thread that others (i.e. people not yet participating in this discussion) who are weak-minded may be at risk of being led astray by your musings. That you have reached a false conclusion on your own does not mean you're weak-minded, it just means you're plain wrong.

Also I said if people (i.e. the "others" mentioned above) are led astray as a conditional statement. This comment was directed more toward those who have concerns about what you say than toward you. There seems to be a concern that even discussing this topic is dangerous. And I don't agree with that. I am actually defending your right to say what you think about it. And I think most people get it. But, hey I could be wrong about that, too. That would make me 0 for 2 in this thread. :)

I already covered why I consider the facts presented in The UB valid in all the preceding paragraphs prior to your quotation of mine. The crux of the issue is that I choose to take what is presented in the Papers as fact, and you do not. Since we can't even agree on the same facts further discussion regarding its content seems pointless to me.

I also never said I condemn any personality of higher status than me. I admit that I am small and don't have ALL the facts, so it's not for me to judge or condemn anyone. But neither am I at all sympathetic toward them. Not being sympathetic is not the same as condemning. I'm not neutral, of course. More than anything I just feel sad and disappointed about the whole mess.

And I feel extremely sad when presented with the situation you described. It wasn't totally clear to me if this actually happened to you (and yes I can be dense), if so, you must hurt tremendously and I can understand your desire to question. These are the rough situations that life on this world brings us. I don't feel its appropriate for me to comment using TUB on your own personal situation. I think you would just be further offended and hurt, and that is not my goal. Life can really suck here, real bad. If it's at all any comfort, we all share in this sorrow. You do not bear this burden alone.


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quil wrote:
Cal, I was referencing the previously stated concern by some in this thread that others (i.e. people not yet participating in this discussion) who are weak-minded may be at risk of being led astray by your musings. That you have reached a false conclusion on your own does not mean you're weak-minded, it just means you're plain wrong.

"quil" -- What "false conclusion" have I made? Please enlighten me? And, if possible, please at least have the decency to quote me correctly, because there are others here who can't read, and insist to tell me what I said by attempting to paraphrase what they understood that I said, and for the most part that is a big problem here. So, please tell me what conclusion or opinion which I have presented is "false"?


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quil wrote:
[. . .] There seems to be a concern that even discussing this topic is dangerous. And I don't agree with that. I am actually defending your right to say what you think about it. And I think most people get it. But, hey I could be wrong about that, too. That would make me 0 for 2 in this thread.

"quil" -- I agree that many here, have responded based on fear, but what fear would they have, are you indicating that I have brought up some form of truth, which jeopardies what is in the text of the Urantia Book?


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quil wrote:
And I feel extremely sad when presented with the situation you described. It wasn't totally clear to me if this actually happened to you (and yes I can be dense), if so, you must hurt tremendously and I can understand your desire to question. These are the rough situations that life on this world brings us. I don't feel its appropriate for me to comment using TUB on your own personal situation. I think you would just be further offended and hurt, and that is not my goal. Life can really suck here, real bad. If it's at all any comfort, we all share in this sorrow. You do not bear this burden alone.

I assure you "quil", I have been tested up the wazzoo, and if I choose to I could make a case for blaming God (Our Father), but I do not. However, through all of this testing and what has been presented in the Urantia Book, I know, beyond a shadow of doubt, that the blame falls on the so called "administration" of Urantia, and I know this from the truths which I read in the UB, but at the same time, I cannot blame the entire "administration", only those who have become complacent as to God's plan and will. It's one thinks to say that all is well and friendly in the universe, but then they haven't been to Urantia, because this type of attitude, everything is just fine, we don't need to do anything, God will make every thing just hunky-dory, and we really don't have to do anything because everything will be just fine in the mansion worlds; if that's the attitude, its not mine, and never will be. We have to do something other that siting on our hands, and preaching the UB as from a pulpit, which is exactly what was done with the New Testament interpretations of the Bible.


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I take some exception with “fanofVan” with that which he has presented below, but at the same time what I read here, to me in preaching from the pulpit. To make these type of statements without at least presenting Urantia Book text to validate what has been preached, would at least either validate or invalidate these statements as true fact or interpretation based on opinion.

fanofVan wrote:
The mandate of free will requires that the choices and expression of "self" are inviolate - but that does not mean they are unknown or even in doubt by some.

“The mandate of free will” as presented above cannot be found in the UB, on that the “mandate of” can be associated to the hierarchy as presented in the UB. So, why make up a new statement which does not exist? And, then there is “but that does not mean they are unknown or even in doubt by some”, where to me this is doubletalk and might imply that “inviolate” “choices” are known by the “self” being the person having made the “choices”, and that by indicating that “even in doubt by some”, might indicate willful miss-choosing?

fanofVan wrote:
We are told that sin carries the very seed of its own destruction.

Where the statement above sites the following, and does not credit to notation, but allows for the presenters originality.
Quote:
(611.7) 53:9.8 But for ages the seven prison worlds of spiritual darkness in Satania have constituted a solemn warning to all Nebadon, eloquently and effectively proclaiming the great truth “that the way of the transgressor is hard”; “that within every sin is concealed the seed of its own destruction”; that “the wages of sin is death.”

Why bother to present this statement if it were not to admonish, who, those who may present their own opinion.

fanofVan wrote:
The sentence of death by iniquity is a sentence of suicide and with fair warning given in infinite love and divine mercy to allow the sinner ample opportunity to turn away from such choices of false liberty and by such a repentance to be eagerly received back into the family of God.

If this is not a sermon, I know not, but to present this kind of statement, merely seems to present “fire and brimstone” into a condemnation of those who disagree. But it is interesting why the word “suicide” be used here and “with fair warning given”, where the writer actually has an understanding of what might be going on in the mind of someone contemplating suicide. So, it is presented as an admonishment, because, if the writer just recently was enlightened regarding, “suicide” I would suggest looking back at previous presentations on this forum, which might show differently?
http://truthbook.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=50706#p50706
http://truthbook.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=50402#p50402
http://truthbook.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=56582#p56582
http://truthbook.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=56595#p56595

fanofVan wrote:
To suspect and claim that such a process of divine mercy and love is somehow unfair or unreliable is a rebuke directly to God and his love for all. It is insulting and childish and raw humanism at its very worst.

How would the writer, presenter above, know what would be a “rebuke directly to God” if not preaching his opinion against others who see not his opinion? Where I ask what exactly “insulting and childish and raw humanism at its very worst”, what is “raw humanism”, and not a condemnation to those which are addressed as having presented their opinion?

fanofVan wrote:
Have faith indeed.

Who said “have faith” where by the continued “indeed” which would indicate, a snidely remark to whomever was or is mentioned. Yah this is the real attitude of “Jesusonian” religious preaching.
I’m sorry, but is this what the Urantia Book teaches? Is this the attitude which Jesus would take? I think not, nor would I think that Jesus, would stand by and say nothing either.


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Caligastia wrote:
"quil" -- What "false conclusion" have I made? Please enlighten me? And, if possible, please at least have the decency to quote me correctly, because there are others here who can't read, and insist to tell me what I said by attempting to paraphrase what they understood that I said, and for the most part that is a big problem here. So, please tell me what conclusion or opinion which I have presented is "false"?

And rehash this entire thread? No. But there were some unaddressed comments you made at the beginning.

Caligastia wrote:
although if one actually studies the entries in the UB regarding this character [Caligastia], one might find that initially he was just following orders, from the system authority, not much different than being in the military, and having to actualize orders as instructed, whether the officer agrees or disagrees with such orders.

False on two counts. First, Caligastia was not merely following orders. He made a willful choice to subvert universe authorities and declare himself “God of Urantia.” That is self-assertion, not humble obedience.

Second, Lucifer’s declaration was in every respect illegal. In my country’s military (the USA), an officer is prohibited from following an illegal order, even if he or she agrees with it. “I was just following orders” is not a valid excuse when the order is illegal. If this were the case, then there would not have been nearly as many hangings at Nuremberg.

Caligastia wrote:
… Nevertheless, to your points made regarding “Caligastia”, you are correct in that the Urantia Book portrays him as a “betrayer”, but the question is a “betrayer” to what? Where, it would be inappropriate for the authors to present all of the information behind the “betrayal” but, does setup certain evidences which just might indicate that those higher-ups may have set him and Adam and Eve up for default, having assigned them to an impossible task, whereby being destined to fail.

False on two more counts. It is plainly obvious that Caligastia was a betrayer of the universe sovereignty of Michael. There is no ambiguity there.

It is false that Adam and Eve were setup to fail. That is a suspicious and subversive assertion you are making. They were setup to succeed in the most challenging of circumstance. That they did not succeed is not necessarily evidence that no Adam and Eve would ever have succeeded. It is simply a demonstration that that pair was ultimately not up to the task.

Caligastia wrote:
But why send the “Melchizedek observers,” instead of sending a “Planetary Prince”? Maybe there were thinks going on, on Urantia, which was out of the ordinary, like genetic experimentation which went awry, which required some cleanup, possibly to correct some mistakes which were made?

What exactly are you intimating here? Mass extermination at the hands of the Melchizedeks? The insinuation is ridiculous, and nonfactual, therefore false.

Caligastia wrote:
So, who is at fault here, if we humans are a byproduct of genetic experimentation? And, it would seem that someone hide this from many personalities who might not have been willing to attempt applying the so called “normal plan” which had been proven elsewhere, to work, but was doomed from the get go, on Urantia. In this case, one might have to through away the guide book and write a new one. Not to mention what we humans have to go through to correct the problems created by others who could not wait for the normal plan of evolution?

All this tells me is that it would seem that we are on our own, until someone gets around to help use with information that will alleviate our own pain and suffering. And then to blame everything on a rebellion, which everyone knew that it would cause a quarantine of this planet and others unfortunate to be an experimental planet. At least we were quarantined before we could infect any other poor unfortunate souls.

More suspicion and intimation. Let me get this straight, as others have tried, somewhere along the line someone messed up on this life experiment world and initiated one vast conspiracy to cover it up and blamed our poor Planetary Prince and unfortunate Adam and Eve as part of the cover up.

That would be a MASSIVE conspiracy. And it would deal with the celestials, not us. If we’re their experiment, why on earth would they even give us any information at all? It makes no sense and is completely inconsistent with how Jesus lived and presented truths to us prior to TUB!

Caligastia wrote:
Now keep in mind that what I am presenting here is an example to possible “hidden keys” presented in the Urantia Book, where they would not be “secrets” but, methods of constructing a narration which can present multiple points of information as can be interpreted by an interested reader, when they question the way text is presented, and how context can be used to create in-depth writing. However, this would all be in vain, for those who just don’t care about anything other than their own perspective.

Nonsense! What you are presenting are conspiracy theories, plain and simple. Your assertions are inconsistent with the direct statements made with in the text, namely the purpose of the authoritative elimination of error. The authors would not include information then turn around an contradict themselves with supposed “hidden keys.” It’s just more baloney spewing forth from your fingers.

Caligastia wrote:
Which might infer a question as to why where these two groups, in their entirety, lost to rebellion? Was there specific information which they had or retained which would make them think that they might continue their work, for whatever reason, they may have had, maybe to better facilitate their studies and research into various issues that they may have found out.

I see, so EVERY soul associated in the rebellion was actually a hero. We got the whole thing flipped on its head. All heroes in the story are actually villains, and all villains are heroes. So, everyone listen up, be wary of that Jesus fella. I guess this does fall in line with some of messages of the atheists.

OK, so I think you get my drift. Brad and others do a fine job of revealing flaws in your thinking. I do not need to rehash them.

Caligastia wrote:
"quil" -- I agree that many here, have responded based on fear, but what fear would they have, are you indicating that I have brought up some form of truth, which jeopardies what is in the text of the Urantia Book?

No. All you offer up is fear, uncertainty, and doubt. None of these are divine qualities. My motivation to respond is more out of pity than anything else. If a child keeps calling a car a cat, they ought to be corrected, no?

I think you are bitter about your life experiences, but do not want to jump fully into the deep end and reject God, so you aim just a little lower and channel that disappointment and fear into a pathetic attempt to destroy this beautiful work and mar the minds of sincere readers.

I made yet another mistake. I continued to engage this crap. My apologies once again, all. I'm done for now.


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The Devil (53:1,4) speaketh -
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I assure you "quil", I have been tested up the wazzoo, and if I choose to I could make a case for blaming God (Our Father), but I do not.

You will be tested beyond your current ability to resent and ultimately to your acceptance or rejection of reality if you continue to reject the salvation offer your Father has graciously presented you. He says, "Repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand." Accepting God's forgiveness is the need of your soul whether it comes from the Bible or the Urantia Book or from merely being deeply honest with God for a change. Your obvious resentment is what is keeping you constrained. The sooner you "have it out with God" the better for you! You can do it right now if you have the will and the courage, but please stop trying to prolong this by drawing us into your pain. Forgive God, your True Father, and allow him forgive you.


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Jim George wrote:
The Devil (53:1,4) speaketh -
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I assure you "quil", I have been tested up the wazzoo, and if I choose to I could make a case for blaming God (Our Father), but I do not.

You will be tested beyond your current ability to resent and ultimately to your acceptance or rejection of reality if you continue to reject the salvation offer your Father has graciously presented you. He says, "Repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand." Accepting God's forgiveness is the need of your soul whether it comes from the Bible or the Urantia Book or from merely being deeply honest with God for a change. Your obvious resentment is what is keeping you constrained. The sooner you "have it out with God" the better for you! You can do it right now if you have the will and the courage, but please stop trying to prolong this by drawing us into your pain. Forgive God, your True Father, and allow him forgive you.

Thank you "Jim George" for your kind but enlightening words, where they where not needed but accepted anyway. However, as you have presented my words above, I also thank you, in that while being tested in life's ups and down, my Father was always with me, and had it not had been for Him, would I not have learned that which I did, making my survival possible. And when I say "Father" I'm not referring to Michael, because as is written in the Urantia Book, I can only consider him as my brother from another mother.
That having been said, I must add that if is such a large word in meaning, that it is often overlooked because it is so small, and "IF" my Father were not with me through thick and thin, could have I assumed that the powers that be, and seem to place so many individuals into adverse situations, might have been directed by my Father, but as the Urantia Book states, there are other forces at work which do not sit as high as He does and would not have the vantage point to see and hear that which He and I would have, but oh yes, there is the Thought Adjuster, who can experience that which His son experiences as well, for who is to say that by what means we are tested?
So, "Jim George" when you say "Forgive God, your True Father, and allow him forgive you", how do you know, that my Father is not the "True Father", and why would I need to forgive myself IF my Father is within me? Is this not what the UB teaches, to "do unto others as you would have them do unto you", so what is it actually that you would have me do, where by your assertion above when you say "Repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand.", I cannot find this exact quote in the UB but I can find it in the Bible (Matthew 4:17), then you say "You will be tested beyond your current ability to resent and ultimately to your acceptance or rejection of reality if you continue to reject the salvation offer your Father has graciously presented you.", Oh, you actual think that I am "Caligastia", "the Devil", and that you are able to cast out "demons", and that I need to be saved? Well that is my point hear, that you know not my Father, even though He resides within you, you have not let Him into your hearts.


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Johhnybones wrote:
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Perhaps the planet needs Epochal Revelation, but not the individual. The person has all they need in the Spirit ministries. Personal revelation is not what TUB is about.


TUB is a book. Planets cannot read. It is the individual person that can read. Transformed individuals collectively transform the planet.


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