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There seems to be some order as to regulation over the Lucifer Rebellion, in that the “rotation of the Most Highs on Edentia was suspended” and that in the Urantia Book narration that follows {43:5.2} it might be assumed, yet not confirmed, “the present government of the constellation” would have also been “suspended”, assuming that there might also have been “rotation” within their ranks. Then the use of the word “infer” used where it may not be an outright fact, of the authors presentation, and that this action was made, along with the “expanded” or added presence of the “Sons of the Vorondadek order”, might indicate some underlying association with why the “rebellion” was instituted, by Lucifer?
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5. The Edentia Fathers since the Lucifer Rebellion

(490.6) 43:5.1 The rotation of the Most Highs on Edentia was suspended at the time of the Lucifer rebellion. We now have the same rulers who were on duty at that time. We infer that no change in these rulers will be made until Lucifer and his associates are finally disposed of.

However, the use of “disposed of” in the quotation above, would case me some discomfort, whereby the average reader might presume that this usage, would “infer” that the author meant to indicate that a guilty verdict had been presented but this wording is most often used, as follows to “dispose of” – “(9.) – (a. to deal with conclusively; settle)”, which would be my assertion but, also “(b. to get rid of; discard)”, “(d. to do away with; destroy)”, which would “infer” an implied guilty verdict, prior to any evidence which may be found, regarding the charges of “rebellion” which at this point, would be based on a disagreement with the governance of a “system” within a “constellation”, which would also indicate that there either was no method of presenting a grievance regarding the governance of the “Satania System” with the “Most Highs on Edentia”, or that any grievance fell on deaf ears, based on a hierarchical feeling of supremacy and power? Why else bring in additional observers?

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(490.7) 43:5.2 The present government of the constellation, however, has been expanded to include twelve Sons of the Vorondadek order. These twelve are as follows:

Keeping in mind that the following list were added to the standing “government of the constellation”, whereby their specific duties or assignments may indicate the areas focused on, and to what extent or depth the investigation appears to be taking.

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(490.8) 43:5.3 1. The Constellation Father. The present Most High ruler of Norlatiadek is number 617,318 of the Vorondadek series of Nebadon. He saw service in many constellations throughout our local universe before taking up his Edentia responsibilities.

(490.9) 43:5.4 2. The senior Most High associate.

(491.1) 43:5.5 3. The junior Most High associate.

(491.2) 43:5.6 4. The Most High adviser, the personal representative of Michael since his attainment of the status of a Master Son.

Where in the previous assignment (#4), it would seem that with the assignment of Michael’s “personal representative” might indicate that he was not aware of the conditions at this level of government?

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(491.3) 43:5.7 5. The Most High executive, the personal representative of Gabriel stationed on Edentia ever since the Lucifer rebellion.

(491.4) 43:5.8 6. The Most High chief of planetary observers, the director of the Vorondadek observers stationed on the isolated worlds of Satania.

(491.5) 43:5.9 7. The Most High referee, the Vorondadek Son intrusted with the duty of adjusting all difficulties consequential to rebellion within the constellation.

I’m not sure why a “Most High referee,” would have been needed but, why would a “referee” have “the duty of adjusting difficulties”, what “difficulties”, is there some unusual need to adjust “consequential” effects from the rebellion, or causes of or for the rebellion? In looking at the definition of “consequential” there are some key words which stand out: “self-important; conceited; pompous”, all of which could be pointed at Lucifer, based on this Urantia Book description of him, but I keep thinking that the word “brilliant” had been used to describe both “Lucifer” and “Caligastia”, but then “brilliant” is used so many times in the UB, one would wonder that its meaning was insignificant.

Quote:
(491.6) 43:5.10 8. The Most High emergency administrator, the Vorondadek Son charged with the task of adapting the emergency enactments of the Norlatiadek legislature to the rebellion-isolated worlds of Satania.

(491.7) 43:5.11 9. The Most High mediator, the Vorondadek Son assigned to harmonize the special bestowal adjustments on Urantia with the routine administration of the constellation. The presence of certain archangel activities and numerous other irregular ministrations on Urantia, together with the special activities of the Brilliant Evening Stars on Jerusem, necessitates the functioning of this Son.

(491.8) 43:5.12 10. The Most High judge-advocate, the head of the emergency tribunal devoted to the adjustment of the special problems of Norlatiadek growing out of the confusion consequent upon the Satania rebellion.

(491.9) 43:5.13 11. The Most High liaison, the Vorondadek Son attached to the Edentia rulers but commissioned as a special counselor with the Faithful of Days regarding the best course to pursue in the management of problems pertaining to rebellion and creature disloyalty.

(491.10) 43:5.14 12. The Most High director, the president of the emergency council of Edentia. All personalities assigned to Norlatiadek because of the Satania upheaval constitute the emergency council, and their presiding officer is a Vorondadek Son of extraordinary experience.

What I found curious with the assignment of number 8 above, was that there was an “emergency” enactment of “Norlatiadek legislature to the rebellion-isolated worlds of Satania”, where it is noted in the Urantia Book, that the system worlds were not subject to a system “legislature”, but is an “administrative unit” in that the following indicates, that only “minor courts” would apply constellation laws or mandates, where which their enforcements would be through “unit of administration, not adjudication,” and subject to “the Jerusem executive council”.

Quote:
(512.9) 45:3.9 This executive group of seven Lanonandeks constitutes the expanded emergency administration made necessary by the exigencies of the Lucifer rebellion. There are only minor courts on Jerusem since the system is the unit of administration, not adjudication, but the Lanonandek administration is supported by the Jerusem executive council, the supreme advisory body of Satania. This council consists of twelve members:

In looking at the list which follows, this executive council, with the exception of the second and third positions, would wield power over the system.

Quote:
(512.10) 45:3.10 1. Hanavard, the Lanonandek chairman.
(512.11) 45:3.11 2. Lanaforge, the System Sovereign.
(512.12) 45:3.12 3. Mansurotia, the first assistant Sovereign.
(512.13) 45:3.13 4. The chief of Satania Melchizedeks.
(512.14) 45:3.14 5. The acting director of the Satania Life Carriers.
(512.15) 45:3.15 6. The chief of the Satania finaliters.
(512.16) 45:3.16 7. The original Adam of Satania, the supervising head of the Material Sons.
(512.17) 45:3.17 8. The director of the Satania seraphic hosts.
(512.18) 45:3.18 9. The chief of the Satania physical controllers.
(512.19) 45:3.19 10. The director of the system Morontia Power Supervisors.
(513.1) 45:3.20 11. The acting director of system midway creatures.
(513.2) 45:3.21 12. The acting head of the corps of ascending mortals.

The reason I said above “with the exception of the second and third positions” is that number (2) replaced “Lucifer” and number (3) replaced “Satan”. But number (1) “Hanavard”, it seems, was not replaced, nor were the remainder from number (4) down, although there may have been attrition since the start of the rebellion. Not much is mentioned about “Hanavard” but, being “chairman” I would be curious as to whether that position superseded the previous “system Sovereign” and “first assistant Sovereign”?
I have presented earlier in this topic, that there seemed to be an issue with the “Life Carriers” directed by number (5) above, and where the “finaliters” seemed to be enforcing public opinion, where number (6) would have had some executive power over the “finaliters”. And then, I posed a question as to why would “Adam and Eve” been assigned to Urantia were it would seem that there was a lack of information handed down to them, which may have had something to do with number (7), who would have had executive power over Adam and Eve’s training?
Then looking back to number (4) “chief of Satania Melchizedeks” where was this chief the one who decided to delay the assignment of a Planetary Prince to Urantia for five hundred thousand years, based on the “Satania Life Carriers” excessive experimentation?
Where, if Lucifer had little power over the Chairman’s actions or direction, where there is little information as to how this hierarchy functions, it would not be surprising that Lucifer might bring in someone like Caligastia who had experience working with the “Life Carriers” and there normal procedures?

With this council having authority over choosing “members to represent the local system on the supreme council at universe headquarters”, they would also be able to seed specific members to augment information back to the “universe headquarters”, but, as mentioned below these representatives were “suspended” because of the rebellion. Therefore, it might seem that Lucifer presented the conditions for the rebellion, in order to start a process which would focus attention on the System Government, where he was fully aware of what would follow, having been involved or had information to what would occur upon what happened in the previous two rebellions.

Quote:
(513.3) 45:3.22 This council periodically chooses three members to represent the local system on the supreme council at universe headquarters, but this representation is suspended by rebellion. Satania now has an observer at the headquarters of the local universe, but since the bestowal of Michael the system has resumed the election of ten members to the Edentia legislature.


Last edited by Caligastia on Tue May 26, 2015 7:17 pm +0000, edited 2 times in total.

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I have ceased being concerned for your soul, Brad, after your reassurance.

Johnnybones wrote:
fanofVan wrote:
I do not hate nor fear any of the rebels and hold no grudge and hope for their rehabilitation and a return to their ascendant potential for all eternity. I have nothing to do with these matters.



fanofVan wrote:
Me here: But if Gabriel were indeed the author of the Revelation rather than the authority for its presentation to Urantia, I would be quite content....and confident of its factual and truthful nature and delivery and perspective.

The bias of greatest concern should be our own and not that of Gabriel I think. You indict Gabriel, not me. And he and the authors and the Master Son certainly do have direct knowledge Louis. You accuse me only of posting text from the greatest gift to our world since the Creator Son himself (which you describe as "the presentations of others" which should be abandoned and refused since I wasn't "there"). Hearsay indeed. Poppycock. An absurd position for you to hold and defend.


Those are your writings above. You hold that in spite of the fact that Gabriel prays for the destruction and pleas for the annihilation of the rebels that you hope for their rehabilitation? Are you with Gabriel or against him? Are you hoping for a plea deal for the rebels that will save them from destruction? Again, I will quote you what Manovandet Melchizedek wrote of Gabriel's attitude towards the rebels.


53:8.4 The Son of Man was confident of success, and he knew that his triumph on your world would forever settle the status of his agelong enemies, not only in Satania but also in the other two systems where sin had entered. There was survival for mortals and security for angels when your Master, in reply to the Lucifer proposals, calmly and with divine assurance replied, “Get you behind me, Satan.” That was, in principle, the real end of the Lucifer rebellion. True, the Uversa tribunals have not yet rendered the executive decision regarding the appeal of Gabriel praying for the destruction of the rebels, but such a decree will, no doubt, be forthcoming in the fullness of time since the first step in the hearing of this case has already been taken.

53:9.4Satan could come to Urantia because you had no Son of standing in residence—neither Planetary Prince nor Material Son. Machiventa Melchizedek has since been proclaimed vicegerent Planetary Prince of Urantia, and the opening of the case of Gabrielvs. Lucifer has signalized the inauguration of temporary planetary regimes on all the isolated worlds. It is true that Satan did periodically visit Caligastia and others of the fallen princes right up to the time of the presentation of these revelations. when there occurred the first hearing of Gabriel’s plea for the annihilation of the archrebels. Satan is now unqualifiedly detained on the Jerusem prison worlds.

Recall that Part II of TUB about The Local Universe was sponsored by the Nebadon Corps of Local Universe Personalities acting by authority of Gabriel of Salvington. Gabriel approved of every word stated in the above quotes.

I accept this as Gabriel's position on the rebels yet you hope for their rehabilitation. Why do you go against Gabriel, Brad? Or do you? :roll:

You put TUB on the same standing as the 4th epochal revelation. You completely leave out The Spirit of Truth. The Master said he would never leave us and so it is. TUB is a gift but it is not living and is not a gift that keeps on giving. It is crystalized on paper. It is not a living truth and you treat it as such. That is idolatrous. And your wishy washy attitude towards the rebels is hypocritical. :shock:


Peace


Last edited by Johnnybones on Tue May 26, 2015 4:35 pm +0000, edited 2 times in total.

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Rebels have no problem spraying a room full of innocent children full of bullets for their "cause". But when they themselves face the consequence of their selfishness they protest it as being without justice.

Honestly!


Last edited by VanAmadon(Inactive) on Tue May 26, 2015 8:00 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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These folk who meddle with sophistry to "demon"strate their position only expose themselves and their "honest" questioning as a massive travesty of reality. Keep it up.


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Van Amadon wrote:
Rebels have no problem spraying a room full of innocent children full of bullets for their "cause". But when they themselves face the consequence of their selfishness they protest it as being without justice. Honestly!


The honest thing to do is to make your accusations more specific. Which rebels? Lucifer or Satan or Caligastia? What high powered automatic riffle did they wield? What were their protests regarding the justice that has not yet been rendered?

Van Amadon wrote:
These folk who meddle with sophistry to "demon"strate their position only expose themselves and their "honest" questioning as a massive travesty of reality. Keep it up.


You are certainly full of self-righteous indignation, VA. And you tempt those you accuse to keep it up. Since you peddle bombast, back it up. :wink:


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The thing that is going on here is that while some will make assertions for the sake of "honesty", others will realize the opportunity it presents and profit manifold.


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Van Amadon wrote:
The thing that is going on here is that while some will make assertions for the sake of "honesty", others will realize the opportunity it presents and profit manifold.



Interesting.


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There is an underlying premise behind some of my presentations one of which I am attempting to show is that as some individuals can be hypnotized via suggestive tones from a hypnotist, so also can the written word have a similar affect on readers, where much is dependent on how a writer presents the material. In some cases which can be seen in some of the responses by some individual posters, where they attempt to rewrite in their own words a negative context presentation which they believe to be true and often present an overabundant amount of insignificant data in order to move the focus away from what they may seem to be true evidence being made against their case.
For some readers who read as much information as is presented in the UB, will tend to take on the same type of hypnotic effect, where they truly start to read different narrations which may us similar words but now they are imprinted into their belief as being undeniable fact.

Many have acquired a talent for slight of words which is intended to cut deep and sometimes presented in such a way that if they think they can put one over on someone else they actually take pleasure in fostering negative responses.

Unfortunately some individuals take pleasure in being able to goat others on but this also is an underlying truth to their real character. If one would understand how the thought adjuster works, it might suggest that the TA has a real challenge and a lot of work to do.

If we reside in a state or country which proffers non conviction if there is but a shadow of doubt, it can also be noted that the written word can present guilt prior to proof. It may be that in the universes of the UB that one is guilty by accusation and must be proven innocent, I am glad to be living in the USA, where even though the system can get screwed up from time to time but, primarily we are innocent until proven guilty. It is amazing how the written word can manipulate normal minded humans into primal animals through suggestive writing.


Last edited by Caligastia on Tue May 26, 2015 8:13 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Normal mindedness is not supported by continuously sidestepping the responsibility to behave in a friendly manner towards the furtherance of the business of doing the Father's will by persisting to suggest that what's real, isn't.


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Welcome Van Amadon!! Always glad for a new voice...and perspective. Hate to be random but your style has triggered some memories of the Master's keen wit.

You remember the mathematical problem presented of one man shearing a sheep in ten minutes does not equate ten men shearing a sheep in one minute.

Another memory that your perspective brought to mind is the straining of gnats while swallowing camels; and then the beam in the eye.

Thanks for the perspective. I'm a "fan" already.

Brad 8)


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Greetings Brad!

It certainly is exhilarating to meet my brother from another mother. :lol:

Peace and joy forever!


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53:8.4 The Son of Man was confident of success, and he knew that his triumph on your world would forever settle the status of his agelong enemies, not only in Satania but also in the other two systems where sin had entered. There was survival for mortals and security for angels when your Master, in reply to the Lucifer proposals, calmly and with divine assurance replied, “Get you behind me, Satan.” That was, in principle, the real end of the Lucifer rebellion. True, the Uversa tribunals have not yet rendered the executive decision regarding the appeal of Gabriel praying for the destruction of the rebels, but such a decree will, no doubt, be forthcoming in the fullness of time since the first step in the hearing of this case has already been taken.

53:9.4Satan could come to Urantia because you had no Son of standing in residence—neither Planetary Prince nor Material Son. Machiventa Melchizedek has since been proclaimed vicegerent Planetary Prince of Urantia, and the opening of the case of Gabrielvs. Lucifer has signalized the inauguration of temporary planetary regimes on all the isolated worlds. It is true that Satan did periodically visit Caligastia and others of the fallen princes right up to the time of the presentation of these revelations. when there occurred the first hearing of Gabriel’s plea for the annihilation of the archrebels. Satan is now unqualifiedly detained on the Jerusem prison worlds.



fanofVan wrote:
I do not hate nor fear any of the rebels and hold no grudge and hope for their rehabilitation and a return to their ascendant potential for all eternity. I have nothing to do with these matters.


A Question for Bradly and Van Amadon:

Are you with Gabriel or against him??? :shock:

Peace


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I would like an answer to an honest question posed to Brad and Van Amadon.

Is The Urantia Book the Living Truth?

Peace


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We are taught to trust God and Michael, our Master/Creator Son and to live in love. I'm on that "side", and we are told, so is Gabriel. I do not doubt it. As were the rebels once upon a time. And so shall all be who survive and ascend by truth, beauty, and goodness into the eternal adventure in this friendly universe. In reality, we are measured more by what we are for than what we are "against" and what we do rather than what we say and our heart is revealed thereby as is our faith. I trust. I act in trust and confidence in God's power, purpose, plan, and process.

The truth of the Master's gospel and the truth given by the Spirit of Truth and TA and Mother and the Tao and Bible and how-to books are true to the degree they are lived and experienced and expressed. The UB teachings are truth too but, of course, must be lived to then become the living truth as is true of all truth from all sources. Truth has no meaning or value until realized and utilized by mind for its living. Such living is by faith and comes to divine assurance and is demonstrated by the fruits of the spirit by this living vine of truth...the "living truth". Jesus lived truth and taught that so must I and so must each. Naturally, Michael's gift of the 5th epochal revelation teaches the same truth and truths....reality must realized by living within reality itself. Reality is the truth and reality is life in love and we ascend into truth by transcending our fears and oppositions, and never by succumbing to them.

Is music true as notes on paper? Yes. But it is the living truth only when played by the instrument and the musician.



8)


Last edited by fanofVan on Wed May 27, 2015 5:24 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Normally, when one becomes infected with a cancer, one prays for it's annihilation.

Also, when one develops an honest desire to be what one should, the truth begins to live through him.


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