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I wonder what makes you think the UB was delivered orally or verbally or by listening?

Or was presented without punctuation?

Or that humans translated anything?

Or that any "source" materials were omitted?

Or that the text was arranged by word, sentence, paragraph, or Paper by human hand?

Which "authorities" were linked to religious groups? (especially the LDS?)

Not one of these claims is supported by the many human members of the Forum or Contact Commission or their verbal or written renditions of how the Papers came to be. You appear willing to say anything at all without any evidence at all to support your presumptions and conclusions.....or false claims and pronouncements of your "superior" intellect to us poor lost sheep who can read and reflect and conclude for ourselves despite your low opinion of the Urantia Book and its student body. The content, as presented, is evidence enough of its source and its intent for some. Sorry this is obviously not true "enough" for you.

More unsupported assumptions to hold up a conclusion of speculation and doubt. Hardly a scholarly effort by any definition. More like grasping at straws to validate a prior belief system already well entrenched and in need of defense. And if you can't dazzle with brilliance, then baffle with Bu**Sh**!!!! An old salesman's ploy of distraction from the reality that there is no substance in the presentation itself.

Why trouble yourself with this book then and this community with your endless straw men and paper tigers and red herring of deception and falsehoods? If not true to you, be done with it. Or rewrite the thing to suit your needs and preferences. Your assaults and innuendos serve no purpose other than to bewilder and mislead those who have their own capacity for receptivity and confirmations and utilization and appreciation. You present quite an example and illustration of the human paradox Cal....and its dangers as given in text.

It is a good thing for us all that confusions and doubts and disbelief are but obstacles to our progress but not to our survival. Some day, some "authority" will surely provide the facts and truth of universe reality which will undoubtedly be believable and embraced by us each and all. Or so we are told and so I believe. See you up the pilgrim's path. Best wishes in your journey.

8)


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I have noticed there runs a certain common thread through individuals who express themselves in the way "Caligastia" and atheists do. They, as a rule, are always very "bright", "intelligent" or "smart". Generally, SELF CONTAINED and lack capacity for the average essence of life.
8)


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nodAmanaV wrote:
I have noticed there runs a certain common thread through individuals who express themselves in the way "Caligastia" and atheists do. They, as a rule, are always very "bright", "intelligent" or "smart". Generally, SELF CONTAINED and lack capacity for the average essence of life.

It would seem that I have struck a nerve but, this surprises me not on a backwards planet, such as this, where right is left and up is down, yet believe you not that atheists believe not in a source and center of all things, where the hierarchy of offspring, who believe not in the One who cannot be seen, also has a purpose which moves the universe beyond the possibilities of what is real, or what is reality? So, if one would think me unaware of what is real would think wrong, and being able to isolate oneself from a cosmic mind can be instructed without the use of a TA, where even the UB indicates a lack of knowledge as to their origin, yet one would persist in swearing allegiances to those who are below the One. Therefore my travel continues to descend through the minds of other's who can only mimic the human paradox, by domination through spirit over control. Be it known that I present only what needs to be seen, and not what I have seen in totem, whereby there are far more pieces to a puzzle than what the picture can present.


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Cal wrote:
"yet believe you not that atheists . . . . also [have] a purpose which moves the universe beyond [ ] possibilities . . .


Cal, your babbling numbs the mind. The twisting of your ways is profound but curiously stabilizing. It helps those of us who comprehend the truth of what you have pointed out (see above) in finding satisfaction. Your musings and carrying on, and of those like you (atheists) do very definitely advance the purpose and goals of life. It provides for STARK contrast. The type of so-called honest question you and your people ask, albeit annoying, pointless and embarrassing, which sometimes morphs into warfare on the will of simple people does serve to move things beyond mere possibilities to actualities of achievement by us, but not you if you persist. So thanks Cal, thank you and the atheist for all the misery. But you see the time has arrived for the harvest. And soon thereafter, the fields will be plowed and re-planted.


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It is most distressing when the Urantia Book goes to so much trouble to express pertinent information and it is wasted on the blind, deaf and dumb, to look deep enough into its words to find the corresponding factors which exhibits the “apparently contradictory nature” as a paradox between human nature and God and Nature, or the Nature of God.

(28)”Of all the dangers which beset man’s mortal nature and jeopardize his spiritual integrity, pride is the greatest.”

But “pride” in what?

(02)”Man is a part of nature — he exists in nature — and yet he is able to transcend nature.”

If we live in God, and we exist in God, do we have the right to “transcend” (to rise above or go beyond) the nature of God, through arrogant pride because, we are God’s children?

(26)”It is only natural that mortal man should be harassed by feelings of insecurity as he views himself inextricably bound to nature while he possesses spiritual powers wholly transcendent to all things temporal and finite.”

Therefore we know that we are inherently “bound” to God, but are we “going beyond ordinary limits” to be “concerned with the present life” on “this world”, without thinking that we, “having bounds or limits”, to nature, that we can waist God’s nature, to the point of extinction?

(08)"On material levels man finds himself subservient to nature, while on spiritual levels he is triumphant over nature and over all things temporal and finite."

Yes, we are “acting in a subordinate capacity”, and think that on “material levels” we have a right to take the nature of God, for granted, by the way we triumph over God’s nature, by rebuilding after natural disasters, but do we really understand the nature of God’s message?

(07)"The mortal dilemma consists in the double fact that man is in bondage to nature while at the same time he possesses a unique liberty — freedom of spiritual choice and action."

So why do we continue to choose and act as if God’s nature resides within us instead of we who live within the nature of God’s spiritual abode?

(05)"The courage required to effect the conquest of nature and to transcend one’s self is a courage that might succumb to the temptations of self-pride."

The courage needed to say no to “pride in one's abilities, status, possessions, etc.; self-esteem” to think that we can continue to plunder the nature of God, as ours to do with as we will, will lead to nature’s power and strength to continue to overwhelm the pride in human nature, through the balancing action of the nature of God.

(23)"Man can find the love of God without facts, and man can discover the laws of God without love, but man can never begin to appreciate the infinite symmetry, the supernal harmony, the exquisite repleteness of the all-inclusive nature of the First Source and Center until he has found divine law and divine love and has experientially unified these in his own evolving cosmic philosophy."

God’s nature is like a program which reacts to problems and continues to create difficulties until human nature understands that “divine law” is like Mother Nature, in that she is programed to survive, and compensate for the material evolution of the human nature to take what they want without giving back, or replenishing the resources bestowed upon the planet from which we have taken to live, luxurious lives for but a few, who have far to much and give nothing back in return.

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2. God and Nature

(56.5) 4:2.1 Nature is in a limited sense the physical habit of God. The conduct, or action, of God is qualified and provisionally modified by the experimental plans and the evolutionary patterns of a local universe, a constellation, a system, or a planet. God acts in accordance with a well-defined, unchanging, immutable law throughout the wide-spreading master universe; but he modifies the patterns of his action so as to contribute to the co-ordinate and balanced conduct of each universe, constellation, system, planet, and personality in accordance with the local objects, aims, and plans of the finite projects of evolutionary unfolding.

(56.6) 4:2.2 Therefore, nature, as mortal man understands it, presents the underlying foundation and fundamental background of a changeless Deity and his immutable laws, modified by, fluctuating because of, and experiencing upheavals through, the working of the local plans, purposes, patterns, and conditions which have been inaugurated and are being carried out by the local universe, constellation, system, and planetary forces and personalities. For example: As God’s laws have been ordained in Nebadon, they are modified by the plans established by the Creator Son and Creative Spirit of this local universe; and in addition to all this the operation of these laws has been further influenced by the errors, defaults, and insurrections of certain beings resident upon your planet and belonging to your immediate planetary system of Satania.

(56.7) 4:2.3 Nature is a time-space resultant of two cosmic factors: first, the immutability, perfection, and rectitude of Paradise Deity, and second, the experimental plans, executive blunders, insurrectionary errors, incompleteness of development, and imperfection of wisdom of the extra-Paradise creatures, from the highest to the lowest. Nature therefore carries a uniform, unchanging, majestic, and marvelous thread of perfection from the circle of eternity; but in each universe, on each planet, and in each individual life, this nature is modified, qualified, and perchance marred by the acts, the mistakes, and the disloyalties of the creatures of the evolutionary systems and universes; and therefore must nature ever be of a changing mood, whimsical withal, though stable underneath, and varied in accordance with the operating procedures of a local universe.

(57.1) 4:2.4 Nature is the perfection of Paradise divided by the incompletion, evil, and sin of the unfinished universes. This quotient is thus expressive of both the perfect and the partial, of both the eternal and the temporal. Continuing evolution modifies nature by augmenting the content of Paradise perfection and by diminishing the content of the evil, error, and disharmony of relative reality.

(57.2) 4:2.5 God is not personally present in nature or in any of the forces of nature, for the phenomenon of nature is the superimposition of the imperfections of progressive evolution and, sometimes, the consequences of insurrectionary rebellion, upon the Paradise foundations of God’s universal law. As it appears on such a world as Urantia, nature can never be the adequate expression, the true representation, the faithful portrayal, of an all-wise and infinite God.

(57.3) 4:2.6 Nature, on your world, is a qualification of the laws of perfection by the evolutionary plans of the local universe. What a travesty to worship nature because it is in a limited, qualified sense pervaded by God; because it is a phase of the universal and, therefore, divine power! Nature also is a manifestation of the unfinished, the incomplete, the imperfect outworkings of the development, growth, and progress of a universe experiment in cosmic evolution.

(57.4) 4:2.7 The apparent defects of the natural world are not indicative of any such corresponding defects in the character of God. Rather are such observed imperfections merely the inevitable stop-moments in the exhibition of the ever-moving reel of infinity picturization. It is these very defect-interruptions of perfection-continuity which make it possible for the finite mind of material man to catch a fleeting glimpse of divine reality in time and space. The material manifestations of divinity appear defective to the evolutionary mind of man only because mortal man persists in viewing the phenomena of nature through natural eyes, human vision unaided by morontia mota or by revelation, its compensatory substitute on the worlds of time.

(57.5) 4:2.8 And nature is marred, her beautiful face is scarred, her features are seared, by the rebellion, the misconduct, the misthinking of the myriads of creatures who are a part of nature, but who have contributed to her disfigurement in time. No, nature is not God. Nature is not an object of worship.


Quote:
(769.8) 68:6.3 Human society is controlled by a law which decrees that the population must vary directly in accordance with the land arts and inversely with a given standard of living. Throughout these early ages, even more than at present, the law of supply and demand as concerned men and land determined the estimated value of both. During the times of plentiful land — unoccupied territory — the need for men was great, and therefore the value of human life was much enhanced; hence the loss of life was more horrifying. During periods of land scarcity and associated overpopulation, human life became comparatively cheapened so that war, famine, and pestilence were regarded with less concern.

(770.1) 68:6.4 When the land yield is reduced or the population is increased, the inevitable struggle is renewed; the very worst traits of human nature are brought to the surface. The improvement of the land yield, the extension of the mechanical arts, and the reduction of population all tend to foster the development of the better side of human nature.


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Oh Cal you are a devil aren't you. How did poor Ewald end up with your lips grafted to his mouth? The midnight hour of your last evening has passed and the dawn light of a new dispensation has appeared in the east. Why don't you get in line with the rest of us for this (FER) hearty breakfast?


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Cal says above: " Therefore my travel continues to descend through the minds of other's who can only mimic the human paradox, by domination through spirit over control." And then: "It is most distressing when the Urantia Book goes to so much trouble to express pertinent information and it is wasted on the blind, deaf and dumb....."

Me here: It is a shame that your "descend"ing brings forth such condescension.

The paradox is not one of choosing either the spirit nature or the material nature for the human mind. It is the unification and harmonization of the two "apparent" polarities of life into a recognition and realization of their inherent Oneness that is our challenge. To love God and to come to know God is to love ALL - both creator and created. How could one choose to love the one and not the other? Loyalty and trust are unified in purpose and in its focus, the person who is the creator of all others and all things true, beautiful, and good. God blesses only mortals with this wonderful opportunity for experience, realization, and growth into our potential as unique universe citizens as Finaliters.....and for us, Agondontor! Our adventure begins in paradox but results in glory and eternity. Oh Joy!

The paradox is not difficult to understand or articulate. It is the process of solution or resolution that offers the difficulty - to transfer the seat of self identity from the material mind and self centered mind of our birth to the universe and spirit mind within....and do so while living within the material world of birth. The paradox is the perspective that these are oppositional when, in reality, they are not.

I wish you well in your confusions and mental contortions in those contradictions you present here. The Urantia Book is given to help us understand the nature of and the solution to the "apparent", but unreal, contradictions of being both material minded and spirit minded. It is not nearly so complicated as you seem to present.

The work of harmonization and spirit progress within a unifying philosophy and personal religious experience is certainly not easy but it is, simply and clearly, the "solution" to the paradox presented and faced. We must unite both realities into the ONE reality.

Ooommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm........Be here now.

:!: :idea: 8)


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And Caligastias Aka Ass above n below his ass

Psychobabble '' Experiment '' ... continues...

WHY Argue with a Fool ?

Only fools do ...so


Last edited by coop on Tue Jun 09, 2015 4:46 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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More Psychobabble from another calling himself

Caligastisa aka Robert Burgess ...

http://www.planetaryhq.com/


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Sympathy For The Devil

https://vimeo.com/29086856


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:oops:

coop, all I can say is... Amen, brother. Sometimes we are too hard-headed to learn any other way. It was apparent from the get-go that this was a futile exercise, and it remains so. In some way I relate to Peter-- can't help myself. You are right: wisdom demands silence. :-#


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My friends - while there is great merit in coop's advice and admonishment, it should be noted from the Guidelines:

This discussion board, as an extension of the Truthbook.com website, has one primary goal:

To be a safe place where newcomers to The Urantia Book can ask questions and explore the teachings of The Urantia Book in a communal setting.

In a sense, this forum is a Virtual Urantia Book Study Group. Specifically, it is a place for new readers to meet long-time readers. We welcome long-time readers as a valuable resource for assisting newcomers to better understand the teachings of The Urantia Book; this discussion board is provided for the benefit of long-time readers too, keeping our primary goal in mind.

Me here: I wonder if long time readers assist in providing a "safe" place for newcomers by remaining silent before an avalanche of distortions and falsehoods regarding the Urantia Book? Might some find such silence a form of tacit agreement?

To me, argument means to attempt to convince another, especially the one with whom one is "arguing". For myself, and Jim and quil and others posting on this thread, I don't think any are hopeful of convincing the contortionist/distortionist of anything at all. My only hope is to provide contrast and add clarity to the UB's presentations which conflict with the claims made here by the original poster of the thread.

The skill with which I have done this is questionable and its result unknown. Mine is no great intellect nor is this tadpole any great scholar. But I hope to help illuminate the words given in this book of truth for newer readers who chance to find this "Virtual Urantia Book Study Group".

There have been so many claims made here that directly contradict the TruthBook's contents and those presentations have been layered into a fabrication and fiction that may not be so easily discernible at this "valuable resource for assisting newcomers to better understand the teachings of The Urantia Book".

Shall we allow false claims to go unanswered?

coop - speaking of fools; I don't remember the source (sounds like Mark Twain) but someone once said: "Just because a fool claims the earth is round don't make it flat!" Hahahahahaha! The opposite is of course true too (Just because some genius says there is no God and creation was an accident called Big Bang sure don't make it true!)...which is why I try to always remind every reader to read for themselves and utilize that which God has given to us each and all to discern and apply that which is given.

Love you coop....don't mean to be argumentative....and you are no fool!! :wink:

8)


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Silence can be just as meaningful as argument. It looks like you've advocated for others to have stuck their hands into the tar baby along with you although anyone with eyes could see that it was a tar baby. What kind of rational encounter does one expect to get in debating someone identifying themselves as Caligastia?

I'm not a fan of stage names or bogus personas, hiding behind a false identity -- if I had my preferences everyone here would be signing in with their real names. That, for one thing, would bring more civility to the discussions if not more rationality.

Larry


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Greetings Larry!! Perhaps you are right on this....you moderate a friendly and honest forum for the community and have done so a long time. I notice this has been a well followed thread. I hope my posts have not simply given voice to the tar baby or actually become the tar baby itself.

The issue as to why one would claim such a name and what then they would do or say by such a moniker has been interesting to me. As is your decision to allow such a name and such falsehoods to be proclaimed when they directly contradict the text. Perhaps I interfered by my posts and helped perpetuate that which would have become silenced by a lack of response.

My bad for the irrationality of responding to irrationality. I appreciate this place and the readership that gathers. May I show improvement in time. Thanks Larry for all you do....I am a beneficiary of your patience....and tolerance.

8) Brad


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The Tar-Baby is a fictional character in the second of the Uncle Remus stories published in 1881; it is a doll made of tar and turpentine used to entrap Br'er Rabbit. The more that Br'er Rabbit fights the Tar-Baby, the more entangled he becomes.
In modern usage, "tar baby" refers to any "sticky situation" that is only aggravated by additional involvement in it.
[. . .]
Related stories
A very similar West African tale is told of the mythical hero Anansi. In this version it is Anansi who creates a wooden doll and covers it over with gum, then puts a plate of yams in its lap, in order to capture the she-fairy Mmoatia (sometimes described as an "elf" or "dwarf"). Mmoatia takes the bait and eats the yams, but grows angry when the doll does not respond and strikes it, becoming stuck in the process.
[. . .]
Popular culture
Walt Disney Studios released Song of the South, which contains the Tar-Baby story, in 1946. The film was never released on VHS or DVD in North America due to concerns about racially insensitive content. The ride Splash Mountain, which is in three of the Walt Disney theme parks, is based on the stories by Uncle Remus. However, instead of the Tar-Baby, Br'er Rabbit is captured in a beehive.

The Tar-Baby appears in the Toontown countryside in Who Framed Roger Rabbit and was featured as one of the guests in House of Mouse.

"Lollipop and the Tar Baby" is a 1977 science fiction short story by John Varley, taking place in the lonely space at the edge of the Solar System and part of this writer's far-future "Eight Worlds" universe. It is not a simple re-telling of the original tale, but undertones of it appear in the way in which the story's protagonist finally resolves her predicament.

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Anansi is a African folktale character. He often takes the shape of a spider and is considered to be the spirit of all knowledge of stories. He is also one of the most important characters of West African and Caribbean folklore.

He is also known as Ananse, Kwaku Ananse, and Anancy; and in the southern United States he has evolved into Aunt Nancy. He is a spider, but often acts and appears as a man.

The AnansI tales originated from the Ashanti people of present-day Ghana. The word Ananse is Akan and means "spider". They later spread to other Akan groups and then to the West Indies, Suriname, and the Netherlands Antilles. On Curaçao, Aruba, and Bonaire he is known as Nanzi, and his wife as Shi Maria.

Anansi is depicted in many different ways. Sometimes he looks like an ordinary spider, sometimes he is a spider wearing clothes or with a human face and sometimes he looks much more like a human with spider elements, such as eight legs.
[. . .]
Mythology
Anansi is a spirit, who acts on behalf of Nyame, his father and the Sky Father. He brings rain to stop fires and performs other duties for him. His mother is Asase Ya. There are several mentions of Anansi's children, the first son often being named as Ntikuma. According to some stories his wife is known as Miss Anansi or Mistress Anansi but most commonly as Aso. He is depicted as a spider, a human, or combinations thereof.

In some beliefs, Anansi is responsible for creating the sun, the stars and the moon, as well as teaching mankind the techniques of agriculture.

References in popular culture
Anansi appears in two episodes of the Disney cartoon series Gargoyles. Anansi was depicted as a giant spider-spirit in the episode "Mark Of The Panther". He also appeared in the first part of "The Gathering", where he was seen returning to Avalon; this stated that he was one of Oberon's subjects.
[. . .]

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(360.1) 32:2.12 The universe of Nebadon now swings far to the south and east in the superuniverse circuit of Orvonton. The nearest neighboring universes are: Avalon, Henselon, Sanselon, Portalon, Wolvering, Fanoving, and Alvoring.

(420.6) 38:5.1 Seraphim spend their first millennium as noncommissioned observers on Salvington and its associated world schools. The second millennium is spent on the seraphic worlds of the Salvington circuit. Their central training school is now presided over by the first one hundred thousand Nebadon seraphim, and at their head is the original or first-born angel of this local universe. The first created group of Nebadon seraphim were trained by a corps of one thousand seraphim from Avalon; subsequently our angels have been taught by their own seniors. The Melchizedeks also have a large part in the education and training of all local universe angels — seraphim, cherubim, and sanobim.

(742.7) 66:2.7 Accordingly, fifty males and fifty females of the Andon and Fonta posterity, representing the survival of the best strains of that unique race, were chosen by the Life Carriers. With one or two exceptions these Andonite contributors to the advancement of the race were strangers to one another. They were assembled from widely separated places by co-ordinated Thought Adjuster direction and seraphic guidance at the threshold of the planetary headquarters of the Prince. Here the one hundred human subjects were given into the hands of the highly skilled volunteer commission from Avalon, who directed the material extraction of a portion of the life plasm of these Andon descendants. This living material was then transferred to the material bodies constructed for the use of the one hundred Jerusemite members of the Prince’s staff. Meantime, these newly arrived citizens of the system capital were held in the sleep of seraphic transport.

(759.8) 67:6.5 The affairs of Urantia were for a long time administered by a council of planetary receivers, twelve Melchizedeks, confirmed by the mandate of the senior constellation ruler, the Most High Father of Norlatiadek. Associated with the Melchizedek receivers was an advisory council consisting of: one of the loyal aids of the fallen Prince, the two resident Life Carriers, a Trinitized Son in apprenticeship training, a volunteer Teacher Son, a Brilliant Evening Star of Avalon (periodically), the chiefs of seraphim and cherubim, advisers from two neighboring planets, the director general of subordinate angelic life, and Van, the commander in chief of the midway creatures. And thus was Urantia governed and administered until the arrival of Adam. It is not strange that the courageous and loyal Van was assigned a place on the council of planetary receivers which for so long administered the affairs of Urantia.

(857.3) 77:2.6 Thus did the Nodite peoples arise out of certain peculiar and unexpected modifications occurring in the life plasm which had been transferred from the bodies of the Andonite contributors to those of the corporeal staff members by the Avalon surgeons.
(857.4) 77:2.7 It will be recalled that the one hundred Andonite germ plasm contributors were in turn made possessors of the organic complement of the tree of life so that the Satania life currents likewise invested their bodies. The forty-four modified Andonites who followed the staff into rebellion also mated among themselves and made a great contribution to the better strains of the Nodite people.


Last edited by Caligastia on Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:57 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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