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73:1.3 (821.6) The Nodites were the descendants of the rebel members of the Prince’s staff, their name deriving from their first leader, Nod, onetime chairman of the Dalamatia commission on industry and trade. The Amadonites were the descendants of those Andonites who chose to remain loyal with Van and Amadon

I am an Amadonite.


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100:1.4 (1094.6) Children are permanently impressed only by the loyalties of their adult associates; precept or even example is not lastingly influential. Loyal persons are growing persons, and growth is an impressive and inspiring reality. Live loyally today — grow — and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole.

22:2.1 (245.1) Mighty Messengers belong to the ascendant group of the Trinitized Sons. They are a class of perfected mortals who have been rebellion tested or otherwise equally proved as to their personal loyalty; all have passed through some definite test of universe allegiance. At some time in their Paradise ascent they stood firm and loyal in the face of the disloyalty of their superiors, and some did actively and loyally function in the places of such unfaithful leaders.

54:1.9 (614.4) How dare the self-willed creature encroach upon the rights of his fellows in the name of personal liberty when the Supreme Rulers of the universe stand back in merciful respect for these prerogatives of will and potentials of personality! No being, in the exercise of his supposed personal liberty, has a right to deprive any other being of those privileges of existence conferred by the Creators and duly respected by all their loyal associates, subordinates, and subjects.


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Caligastisa aka Robert Burgess


Burgess, from San Francisco?
Cant be.


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54:1.2 (613.4) True liberty is the quest of the ages and the reward of evolutionary progress. False liberty is the subtle deception of the error of time and the evil of space.

FREEDUUUUUUUMB!
-Mel Gibson


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nodAmanaV wrote:
I once married this woman (we're still married) and after we got to know each other a little bit and it became clear we would eventually end up married she said to me "just think how we're going to fight". FIGHT? I thought to myself. Jeepers Wally. You must be kidding, right? I thought to myself. Hahaha


Yupp, I'm guilty of similar preconceptions. Even the very sweetist and most feminine creature of all the Earth can become one of the very most belligerent if you should trespass her domain on certain days :)


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The Urantia Book says in one place this:

42:4.3 (473.1) The power centers and their associates are much concerned in the work of transmuting the ultimaton into the circuits and revolutions of the electron. These unique beings control and compound power by their skillful manipulation of the basic units of materialized energy, the ultimatons. They are masters of energy as it circulates in this primitive state. In liaison with the physical controllers they are able to effectively control and direct energy even after it has transmuted to the electrical level, the so-called electronic stage. But their range of action is enormously curtailed when electronically organized energy swings into the whirls of the atomic systems. Upon such materialization, these energies fall under the complete grasp of the drawing power of linear gravity.

and in another:

137:4.13 (1530.5) But this was in no sense a miracle. No law of nature was modified, abrogated, or even transcended. Nothing happened but the abrogation of time in association with the celestial assembly of the chemical elements requisite for the elaboration of the wine. At Cana on this occasion the agents of the Creator made wine just as they do by the ordinary natural processes except that they did it independently of time and with the intervention of superhuman agencies in the matter of the space assembly of the necessary chemical ingredients.

Why question the Urantia Book, its authorship and authoritative authenticity?


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I did not respond to Coop’s posts earlier because he is entitled to his opinion, yet I am thankful to Coop for pointing me in the direction of the “Planetary HQ” website and ultimately to its forum which is noted at the bottom of that page.
coop wrote:
And Caligastias Aka Ass above n below his ass
Psychobabble '' Experiment '' ... continues...
WHY Argue with a Fool ?
Only fools do ...so

coop wrote:
More Psychobabble from another calling himself
Caligastisa aka Robert Burgess ...
http://www.planetaryhq.com/

Coop mentioned this, “Robert Burgess” who is mentioned within the documentation on the aforementioned page, which I have read much of this persons “Psychobabble” which I must agree, yet when I signed up for the Forum, in order to confront this self-proclaimed “Caligastia” as being in contact with various celestial entities, I noticed some discrepancies, which even this “Caligastia” and his minions could not answer, nor could confirm. Therefore, I am not convinced that this “Robert Burgess” is this same “Caligastia” but if I am mistaken, he is certainly not knowledgeable of the content presented on the webpage, noted above, and when I confronted him on this, he denied that it he had anything to do with it nor was that forum associated with that page, which is unusual that the link below takes one to that forum? Labeled at the bottom of the page as “New Message Forum” -- http://caligastia.proboards.com/

At any rate, I was thrown off of the forum, because I dared to question the presented text and it association with that forum, not to mention the validity of the so called “Revelation Code” which I am sure was not written by that “Caligastia” but by “Robert Burgess” who may also be an AKA for someone else who I am thinking has stated a very similar story, but nevertheless, the overall message being presented on that Forum, is racist and leans toward a “white supremacist” agenda, where it would not surprise me because there is much which has been presented on the “Planetary Headquarters” home page, that seems to come from Hitler’s, Mein Kampf, although I found no direct quotations, but the message is embedded within the text.

We are told today that there are many websites which promote ISIS terrorism but the website and forum listed above could also be associated with the promotion of a form of terroristic propaganda, and I can honestly say that if this “Caligastia” is “Robert Burgess” or any other person, he is definitely in need of medical help.

So, Coop, as I mentioned above you are entitled to your opinion, but I am not that person who you have associated me with, and I would appreciate it that you stop your slander.
I have the right to use whatever “avatar” name as I wish, and specifically, if this forum has accepted it when I signed up, then your argument is with the administration, not me.


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Thanks Brother aka Caligastia

Thanks for your response . yet WHY Has it taken

sooo long for a Honest answer ? Months ...

I Honestly never thought that you were Caligastia
or Robert Burgess etc

I Was the first to question you about your avatar name ,

Yet i got no response , until now,

I Guess you were to busy with your so called Experiment ?

Yet i thank you for your present honesty an disclaimer,

I Also thought that you n others Might be Curious an interested..

in the So called Caligastisa aka Robert Burgess ...
http://www.planetaryhq.com/ ... Site

and hoped that you an others might comment an discuss
opinions an thoughts about it etc ,

Ive read most of his Stuff ... and although interesting ,..

IT REALLY is ''Psychobabble” ... B.S.

Although im interested in yours an others thoughts an
opinions about this so called planetary princes writings ,
dont waste the time to comment about it or him ,
whomever it may actually be , im just glad that you n maybe others
could see the ... cant find the words ,... for the insanity , absurdity ,
an cosmicly insane deluded warped mind of someone
that calls himself the planetary prince , Caligastia .

I Thank you for your present honesty , and i have no ill
feelings towards you , i never did , in fact i think that your a
well written and a highly intellegent Personality .

I Also hope to hear much more of your personal thoughts here
in the future ,

Just be honest about your thoughts n opinions .
Not that your not . but yah got a lot to offer
by just being yourself .

An really who else can you Be .

Forgive my lack of writing skills ,
I blame it on my age n health etc

yet i hope you understand what im trying to say .

GOD Bless you Brother .

Faith son
Coop


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coop wrote:
Thanks Brother aka Caligastia

Thanks for your response . yet WHY Has it taken

sooo long for a Honest answer ? Months ...

I Honestly never thought that you were Caligastia
or Robert Burgess etc

I Was the first to question you about your avatar name ,

Yet i got no response , until now,

I Guess you were to busy with your so called Experiment ?


Coop, in my responses to your first posting, as mentioned, was not directly addressed to you because it was what you were expecting, therefore, in the remainder of my posts on the topic, I thought it best to address the topic issues. Not to mention that my experiment was playing out as I had expected on that topic. When playing cards, one would wait to get an idea of what or who one is playing against, therefore it served my purpose to wait.
Also, regarding the response on this topic, it took me some time to acquire and read the information posted on the website you had presented and to also give some time as to my interaction with those on that forum. In most cases when responding it is important to respond in a way as to render an appropriate psychological response where by to ascertain your opponents knowledge and understanding of various subjects, which they have absolutely no understanding of the Urantia Book and even though much of the premise of the documentation presented is based on readings from the UB they have little if anything which might be associated as to knowledge there of.
Any attempt to confront that person, "Caligastia", on any subject regarding the UB would be futile because that person, avoids any direct response to any questions, therefore, he could not be the author of most of the documentation presented on the website you presented.


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Yes my Brother i agree ,

with what your saying , and Yes i understand
that it took time an effort to actually read the presented thoughts
and hard to swallow the muck from the so called Caligstia
Planetary HQ, ... By so called Robert Burgess and the
Discussion forum by whomever associated themself with it etc ,

And YES ITs Futile to attempt to discuss ... well almost
anything with someone thats deluded or cosmicly insane eh.

Albeit some may say its simply a waste of time to read
the stuff written by the strange ideas an ideals of those
deluded or cosmicly insane.

Yet Imo its good to know about them and those that may follow
their deluded thoughts and propaganda etc .
as history tends to repeat itself .

Its Good to be aware of whats going on and to keep our
eyes an ears open eh.
And to share it with others .

We All may be strangers in a strange land
yet motel #6 {GOD} will keep the light on ,


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The current legacy of -- Van/Amadon.

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(749.2) 66:5.31 10. The supreme court of tribal co-ordination and racial co-operation. This supreme council was directed by Van and was the court of appeals for all of the other nine special commissions charged with the supervision of human affairs. This council was one of wide function, being intrusted with all matters of earthly concern which were not specifically assigned to the other groups. This selected corps had been approved by the Constellation Fathers of Edentia before they were authorized to assume the functions of the supreme court of Urantia.

Note: that the quote presented above indicates that this last group “directed by Van” was “approved by the Constellation Fathers”, which would indicate that Caligastia may have had little to do or say over the functions of this group, yet it is noted that Van’s group, although not over the functions of the others, they “were not specifically assigned to the other groups”, but would be the group whereby the locals could appeal to, should they have issues with the other groups and, that this (Van’s) group function had more to do with policing the locals which would have been directed more on the lines of autocratic rule, or suppression of the locals. Where it may be indicated that the following UB quote may be what “Van’s Group” would enforce.

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(786.9) 70:2.18 Militarism is autocratic and cruel — savage. It promotes social organization among the conquerors but disintegrates the vanquished. Industrialism is more civilized and should be so carried on as to promote initiative and to encourage individualism. Society should in every way possible foster originality.

Even though it is not indicated that “Van” promoted “militarism” it could be understood when we examine “Van’s” actions?
In the narrations below, it would seem that Van took his assignment further into account, to include or proclaim himself, as procurator over the entire staff including Caligastia.

Quote:
(755.4) 67:2.2 The presentation of this astounding demand was followed by the masterly appeal of Van, chairman of the supreme council of co-ordination. This distinguished administrator and able jurist branded the proposed course of Caligastia as an act bordering on planetary rebellion and appealed to his conferees to abstain from all participation until an appeal could be taken to Lucifer, the System Sovereign of Satania; and he won the support of the entire staff. Accordingly, appeal was taken to Jerusem, and forthwith came back the orders designating Caligastia as supreme sovereign on Urantia and commanding absolute and unquestioning allegiance to his mandates. And it was in reply to this amazing message that the noble Van made his memorable address of seven hours’ length in which he formally drew his indictment of Daligastia, Caligastia, and Lucifer as standing in contempt of the sovereignty of the universe of Nebadon; and he appealed to the Most Highs of Edentia for support and confirmation.

In the narration above, the text indicates that “Van” was a “distinguished administrator” but, it does not indicate where he would have received this experience, as an administrator, other than having been “been approved by the Constellation Fathers”, where it would have normally been assigned by the Planetary Prince. However, it can be understood that Van went over Caligastia’s head where, Caligastia was following orders and Van appealed to Jerusem, where the answer to the appeal was an order to follow Caligastia’s mandates, as coming from the “supreme sovereign on Urantia” but, as is noted above, Van did not follow these orders, and took it upon himself, in essence, to start a mutiny against the current administrations of Jerusem and Urantia, whereby taking his concerns directly to “the Most Highs of Edentia”, which bypassed the normal protocol for appeals from a lowly staff member, although he was placed in charge of other nine within his group.

This would prompt the question that, if Van did not go over the System and Local authorities heads, and go directly to the Constellation Fathers, who he was in league with, and possibly a double agent for them, could this have been the beginning of the Rebellion, as proclaimed first by Van, where it would seem that he had already prepared an “indictment” which took “seven hours’ length” to present? So, it could be logical assessed, that his actions were a fore thought or, planned in advance, in order to push Lucifer to make a stand on his administrative plans for the System? Where it was Van, as stated above, who indicted “the proposed course of Caligastia as an act bordering on planetary rebellion”, where we know that Van knew Caligastia was following orders, because he would not have included Lucifer, in “his indictment” which he already drew up, in preparation for his coup de grâce, which then could be assumed that the rebellion was started on Urantia, by the underhanded actions of “Van”. As memory serves, this type of action or scenario, may have not been much different than the Nazi takeover of Germany, where it would seem that “Van” was an eloquent speaker, similar to Hitler, and a rebellion, would have been an ends to a means.

It would not be unusual to have a “supreme council” but its organization would be described in quotes “50:2.3-5” presented below:

Quote:
(573.4) 50:2.3 The rule of the evolutionary planets in their early and unsettled careers is largely autocratic. The Planetary Princes organize their specialized groups of assistants from among their corps of planetary aids. They usually surround themselves with a supreme council of twelve, but this is variously chosen and diversely constituted on the different worlds. A Planetary Prince may also have as assistants one or more of the third order of his own group of sonship and sometimes, on certain worlds, one of his own order, a secondary Lanonandek associate.

(573.5) 50:2.4 The entire staff of a world ruler consists of personalities of the Infinite Spirit and certain types of higher evolved beings and ascending mortals from other worlds. Such a staff averages about one thousand, and as the planet progresses, this corps of helpers may be increased up to one hundred thousand or more. At any time need is felt for more helpers, the Planetary Princes have only to make request of their brothers, the System Sovereigns, and the petition is granted forthwith.

(573.6) 50:2.5 Planets vary greatly in nature and organization and in administration, but all provide for tribunals of justice. The judicial system of the local universe has its beginnings in the tribunals of a Planetary Prince, which are presided over by a member of his personal staff; the decrees of such courts reflect a highly fatherly and discretionary attitude. All problems involving more than the regulation of the planetary inhabitants are subject to appeal to the higher tribunals, but the affairs of his world domain are largely adjusted in accordance with the personal discretion of the prince.

So over all, it would seem that “Van” had an ulterior motive for his actions, in that it may have been planned, a forethought, to take over the “titular” rule of Urantia, from the Planetary Prince, where it so indicates, in the following Urantia Book quote, that he was in authority “for over one hundred and fifty thousand years”, where he received this authority from the “Melchizedek receivers”, which if we recall, where also involved on Urantia, prior to the Planetary Princes initial arrival, being delayed for about five hundred thousand years, cleaning up the results of the “Life Carriers” experiments on Urantia. Could this whole, rebellion thing, be an end result, to hide what occurred on Urantia, do to these experiments? It would not be that farfetched to think that if what resulted, on Urantia, had never before been produced in the Universes, it would also, have been against the plans of the “unseen Father”?

Quote:
(830.1) 74:2.6 The next act was the delivery of the charge of planetary custody to Adam and Eve by the senior Melchizedek, chief of the council of receivership on Urantia. The Material Son and Daughter took the oath of allegiance to the Most Highs of Norlatiadek and to Michael of Nebadon and were proclaimed rulers of Urantia by Van, who thereby relinquished the titular authority which for over one hundred and fifty thousand years he had held by virtue of the action of the Melchizedek receivers.

One question comes to mind, with the narration above where “Adam and Eve” “took the oath of allegiance to the Most Highs of Norlatiadek and to Michael”, where if the Fathers rule and plan were the most predominant, why then did they not swear “allegiance” to the “unseen Father” or the Father in Paradise? Where it would seem that by making an “oath” to the “Most Highs”, regardless of Michael’s authority, which would most definitely be proclaimed through the “Most Highs”, would imply that “Most Highs” spoke for Michael?

But it would seem that Van’s plans did not take hold overnight, where it took “more than seven years” of “sinful conflict” and “bitter struggle”, before “every personality concerned had made a final decision” but, I’m sure that Van and his associates, had to do a lot of arm bending, and things which would have been considered as “intolerable”, being that until everyone took sides, Van would not get the support or authority he needed to take total control over Urantia. But, it would seem that no one was spared, not even those who were trapped on Urantia, who had no way of leaving because they were isolated, or quarantined, here on Urantia by the decree of “the authorities on Edentia”, as indicated below.

Quote:
(755.7) 67:2.5 Seraphim and cherubim and other celestial beings were involved in the decisions of this bitter struggle, this long and sinful conflict. Many superhuman groups that chanced to be on Urantia at the time of its isolation were detained here and, like the seraphim and their associates, were compelled to choose between sin and righteousness — between the ways of Lucifer and the will of the unseen Father.

(756.1) 67:2.6 For more than seven years this struggle continued. Not until every personality concerned had made a final decision, would or did the authorities of Edentia interfere or intervene. Not until then did Van and his loyal associates receive vindication and release from their prolonged anxiety and intolerable suspense.

It might be deduced by the narration above that it had been proclaimed a “sin” to not proclaim an “allegiance to the Most Highs of Norlatiadek and to Michael” which would have, in the absence “Edentia” “authorities”, been established by Van. However, if this was the case, by what means could Van have had to influence those making this choice, to side with the so called “righteousness” verses “sin”? Could it have had something to do with the “Tree of Life” which was in Van’s position, “that enabled the material and otherwise mortal beings of the Prince’s staff to live on indefinitely as long as they had access to it.” (66:4.13)

So, it would seem that there was no middle ground, and everyone who was not a mortal human, had to make a choice. If the right choice was not made, would their indefinite lives be in jeopardy? If so, then Van held the power of life and death, over those making this choice?

Quote:
(745.5) 66:4.15 It should be explained in this connection that, at the time the one hundred Andonites contributed their human germ plasm to the members of the Prince’s staff, the Life Carriers introduced into their mortal bodies the complement of the system circuits; and thus were they enabled to live on concurrently with the staff, century after century, in defiance of physical death.

(745.6) 66:4.16 Eventually the one hundred Andonites were made aware of their contribution to the new forms of their superiors, and these same one hundred children of the Andon tribes were kept at headquarters as the personal attendants of the Prince’s corporeal staff.

As a side note it would be correct to assume that the “one hundred Andonites” used in conjunction with the creation of the Prince’s staff, the “Caligastia one hundred”, where which Van was inclusive, required an immediate association with the Andonite one hundred, as if one could not function without the other? Therefore, it is not preposterous to assume that Van and Amadon were joined at the hip, so to speak, and when the narration refers to one, would also be obliged to assimilate the same to the other.

Quote:
(742.1) 66:2.1 The Planetary Prince of Urantia was not sent out on his mission alone but was accompanied by the usual corps of assistants and administrative helpers.

(742.3) 66:2.3 The planetary staff included a large number of angelic co-operators and a host of other celestial beings assigned to advance the interests and promote the welfare of the human races. But from your standpoint the most interesting group of all were the corporeal members of the Prince’s staff — sometimes referred to as the Caligastia one hundred.

But, for the humans, why would they not need to choose at this time, would it have something to do with their single-fold being? And then from the narratives above, where we are told, that “a large number of angelic co-operators and a host of other celestial beings”, would have had to make a choice in the mater of the rebellion.
And, in the narration below, it mentions that there “was a terrible loss of personalities among seraphim and cherubim”. But it does not indicate exactly what this loss was, or did these “seraphim and cherubim” loss their lives, as might be associated with a humans, or would this possible association between “transition seraphim” and humans, have something to do with the “personalities” assigned to humans and, this loss, of personality be the loss of association between seraphim/cherubim and human?

Quote:
(756.3) 67:3.2 On Urantia forty members of the corporeal staff of one hundred (including Van) refused to join the insurrection. Many of the staff’s human assistants (modified and otherwise) were also brave and noble defenders of Michael and his universe government. There was a terrible loss of personalities among seraphim and cherubim. Almost one half of the administrator and transition seraphim assigned to the planet joined their leader and Daligastia in support of the cause of Lucifer. Forty thousand one hundred and nineteen of the primary midway creatures joined hands with Caligastia, but the remainder of these beings remained true to their trust.

From the narration above we can assume that out of the 50,000 primary midwayers, 9,881 “remained true” to the “Most High’s”, which might indicate some additional knowledge which they possessed while making their choice? But, when it mentions “Almost one half of the administrator and transition seraphim” were “in support of the cause of Lucifer” could refer to a trilateral association, as was assigned to the three-fold created beings of the corporeal staff, where if so, then this might explain or could be an assumption that “transition seraphim” and humans, make up their dual being-ness? Because, from the following UB quote, although not presented from the standpoint of Urantia reality of being, it does indicate that on the “mansion worlds” this association would be consciously realized, therefore it can be assumed that on Urantia, these “transition seraphim” are associated with us but, we are not “conscious” of their association within our consciousness.

Quote:
(742.5) 66:2.5 These Jerusemite volunteers were brought by seraphic transport direct from the system capital to Urantia, and upon arrival they were held enseraphimed until they could be provided with personality forms of the dual nature of special planetary service, literal bodies consisting of flesh and blood but also attuned to the life circuits of the system.

Therefore, is there a moment in the evolution of the human being where which, these seraphim become as one with us, and is their presents, a portion of our combined personality, which may help use associate with our thought adjuster, inevitably being able to gain survival statue, and continue on in our ascension carrier?

This might have something to do with the previous statement as to the “loss of personalities” which may not had the opportunity to associate or assimilate?

Quote:
(552.1) 48:6.3 You will not, however, be conscious of the ministry of the transition seraphim until you attain the mansion worlds, where they labor untiringly for the advancement of their mortal pupils, being assigned for service in the following seven divisions:

Quote:
(756.4) 67:3.3 The traitorous Prince marshaled the disloyal midway creatures and other groups of rebel personalities and organized them to execute his bidding, while Van assembled the loyal midwayers and other faithful groups and began the great battle for the salvation of the planetary staff and other marooned celestial personalities.

Now the narration above is straight forward in that there were two groups struggling for survival regardless of the principals drawn up between the actual articles’ which separated them, one from the other. However since this narration included the association of the “midway creatures” we know that their numbers were lopsided in favor of the rebel’s, 40,119 to 9,881, almost a 4:1 ratio. This in itself, would indicate that the primary midway creatures, would have made their choice based on information which seems not to have been actually provided within the literal narration of the Urantia Book.

Quote:
(756.5) 67:3.4 During the times of this struggle the loyalists dwelt in an unwalled and poorly protected settlement a few miles to the east of Dalamatia, but their dwellings were guarded day and night by the alert and ever-watchful loyal midway creatures, and they had possession of the priceless tree of life.

From the narration above we know that Van’s group was in “possession of the priceless tree of life” but it would seem that it was stolen from the Temple compound in Dalamatia, but the taking of the “tree of life” would somehow have been either planed in advance prior to the rebellion, in order for this action to have been doable, as mentioned below, and if we can assume that Van was the one who declared that this insurrection was a rebellion, and spoke in great length, as to its causality, would have given those who stole the “tree of life” enough time to perform this deed undercover of deception, thereby validating that the rebellion was therefore instigated on Urantia, and a forethought produced by Van.

Quote:
(756.6) 67:3.5 Upon the outbreak of rebellion, loyal cherubim and seraphim, with the aid of three faithful midwayers, assumed the custody of the tree of life and permitted only the forty loyalists of the staff and their associated modified mortals to partake of the fruit and leaves of this energy plant. There were fifty-six of these modified Andonite associates of the staff, sixteen of the Andonite attendants of the disloyal staff refusing to go into rebellion with their masters.

It would also, not be presumptuous that Van had intended to use the “tree of life” as major point, in pursuing the addition of loyalists to further his cause.

Quote:
(756.7) 67:3.6 Throughout the seven crucial years of the Caligastia rebellion, Van was wholly devoted to the work of ministry to his loyal army of men, midwayers, and angels. The spiritual insight and moral steadfastness which enabled Van to maintain such an unshakable attitude of loyalty to the universe government was the product of clear thinking, wise reasoning, logical judgment, sincere motivation, unselfish purpose, intelligent loyalty, experiential memory, disciplined character, and the unquestioning dedication of his personality to the doing of the will of the Father in Paradise.

Based on the previous presentation, it might be said that the narration above, had little to do with Van’s “unshakable attitude of loyalty” in order to gain an upper hand over the rebel’s but, more like blackmail, using the possession of the “tree of life” as a bargaining chip, to manipulate the cause against the rebels.

The other interesting notation from the narration above, is that it uses the phrase “Father in Paradise” where in other narrations which references the rebellion, and in some cases, from the rebels point of view, it uses the phrase “unseen Father”. Where this implication would indicate that the use of “Father in Paradise” would indicate a physical being, and the term “unseen Father” would more so indicate the Father as spirit. Where from the UB’s context, it has indicated that one can see and be in the presents of the Father in Paradise, yet in another, that our Father is un-seeable because He comes to us in the form of Spirit. Thereby, would ponder the question as to who is worshipping which “Father”, the one assumed to have physical form, like the one that Van is noted to “doing the will of” or the one who resides within, and is Spirit?

Quote:
(756.8) 67:3.7 This seven years of waiting was a time of heart searching and soul discipline. Such crises in the affairs of a universe demonstrate the tremendous influence of mind as a factor in spiritual choosing. Education, training, and experience are factors in most of the vital decisions of all evolutionary moral creatures. But it is entirely possible for the indwelling spirit to make direct contact with the decision-determining powers of the human personality so as to empower the fully consecrated will of the creature to perform amazing acts of loyal devotion to the will and the way of the Father in Paradise. And this is just what occurred in the experience of Amadon, the modified human associate of Van.

From the narration above, it states that propaganda or teaching can alter the “decisions of all evolutionary moral creatures” however, it also indicates that these “decision-determining powers” can come from “the indwelling spirit” but, in the use of this wording, where it implies that this “indwelling spirit” is the thought adjuster, it would not be consistent with the grammatical narration of the Urantia Book to change its persistent usage of directly indicating, here “thought adjuster”, but rather does not use a similar form which indicates that this “indwelling spirit” is adversely not the “thought adjuster”. Whereby we have examined above, that there are other possible associations which may affect the “decision-determining powers of the human personality”, and in this case, its association with “Amadon” could very well be associated to the personality of Van, where if as indicated below, Amadon “was one of the one hundred who contributed life plasm” in the creation of altering the staff member beings, and as worded below, “ever since that event” of “contributing life plasm”, “he had been attached to Van". This would indicate a biological association between the two which, as mentioned earlier, would have something to do with the staff being three-fold beings and, as also mentioned it can be assumed that when, in these narrations when reference is made to either Van or Amadon, it may be assumed as Van/Amadon. Therefore, it is not surprising that Amadon is presented in the same light as Van.

Quote:
(757.1) 67:3.8 Amadon is the outstanding human hero of the Lucifer rebellion. This male descendant of Andon and Fonta was one of the one hundred who contributed life plasm to the Prince’s staff, and ever since that event he had been attached to Van as his associate and human assistant. Amadon elected to stand with his chief throughout the long and trying struggle. And it was an inspiring sight to behold this child of the evolutionary races standing unmoved by the sophistries of Daligastia while throughout the seven-year struggle he and his loyal associates resisted with unyielding fortitude all of the deceptive teachings of the brilliant Caligastia.

Quote:
(742.6) 66:2.6 Sometime before the arrival of these one hundred Jerusem citizens, the two supervising Life Carriers resident on Urantia, having previously perfected their plans, petitioned Jerusem and Edentia for permission to transplant the life plasm of one hundred selected survivors of the Andon and Fonta stock into the material bodies to be projected for the corporeal members of the Prince’s staff. The request was granted on Jerusem and approved on Edentia.

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(757.2) 67:3.9 Caligastia, with a maximum of intelligence and a vast experience in universe affairs, went astray — embraced sin. Amadon, with a minimum of intelligence and utterly devoid of universe experience, remained steadfast in the service of the universe and in loyalty to his associate. Van utilized both mind and spirit in a magnificent and effective combination of intellectual determination and spiritual insight, thereby achieving an experiential level of personality realization of the highest attainable order. Mind and spirit, when fully united, are potential for the creation of superhuman values, even morontia realities.

Quote:
(742.7) 66:2.7 Accordingly, fifty males and fifty females of the Andon and Fonta posterity, representing the survival of the best strains of that unique race, were chosen by the Life Carriers. With one or two exceptions these Andonite contributors to the advancement of the race were strangers to one another. They were assembled from widely separated places by co-ordinated Thought Adjuster direction and seraphic guidance at the threshold of the planetary headquarters of the Prince. Here the one hundred human subjects were given into the hands of the highly skilled volunteer commission from Avalon, who directed the material extraction of a portion of the life plasm of these Andon descendants. This living material was then transferred to the material bodies constructed for the use of the one hundred Jerusemite members of the Prince’s staff. Meantime, these newly arrived citizens of the system capital were held in the sleep of seraphic transport.

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(757.3) 67:3.10 There is no end to the recital of the stirring events of these tragic days. But at last the final decision of the last personality was made, and then, but only then, did a Most High of Edentia arrive with the emergency Melchizedeks to seize authority on Urantia. The Caligastia panoramic reign-records on Jerusem were obliterated, and the probationary era of planetary rehabilitation was inaugurated.

It should be noted that the records of the reign of Caligastia on Urantia, were "obliterated" by the "emergency Melchizedecks", or other authority on Jerusem, which would indicate that there was something to be hidden, by doing so. If the actions of Van within the narration of the Urantia Book, can be considered as factual, then the only other records which might be available would be through Seraphim records which may have been lost due to the length of the quarantine and, it could also be considered that these records might have vindicated the actions of Caligastia, and might now be known to the rest of the Universe authority. Therefore, it may not be a coincidence that Michael choose Urantia as His final bestowal?

Quote:
(743.1) 66:2.9 The entire transaction of repersonalization, from the time of the arrival of the seraphic transports bearing the one hundred Jerusem volunteers until they became conscious, threefold beings of the realm, consumed exactly ten days.

Quote:
(551.7) 48:6.2 You should understand that the morontia life of an ascending mortal is really initiated on the inhabited worlds at the conception of the soul, at that moment when the creature mind of moral status is indwelt by the spirit Adjuster. And from that moment on, the mortal soul has potential capacity for supermortal function, even for recognition on the higher levels of the morontia spheres of the local universe.

Quote:
(174.5) 15:7.5 Jerusem, the headquarters of your local system of Satania, has its seven worlds of transition culture, each of which is encircled by seven satellites, among which are the seven mansion worlds of morontia detention, man’s first postmortal residence. As the term heaven has been used on Urantia, it has sometimes meant these seven mansion worlds, the first mansion world being denominated the first heaven, and so on to the seventh.


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Your assertions and proposition requires the following to be a falsification; one of many, if not the entirety of the UB text, and further results in the claim that Van initiated the rebellion, contrary (once again) to the story presented. For any logical consistency, your claims would result in the situation where the rest of Nebadon and its rulers and administration are in league with these Vanonite Rebels and have falsely accused and detained Lucifer, Satan, Caligastia and all those loyal to them contrary to truth, beauty, goodness, love, order, mercy, and justice, while at the same time upholding sin; OR that the United Midwayers were allowed to deliver a book of falsehoods in the name of Epochal Revelation, which then requires one to believe that the actual authors listed are either falsified or this conspiracy of yours leads all the way to Orvonton and beyond. Never thought I'd hear a tale more incredible than that in the UB - my mistake!!

:roll: :lol: :? :shock: 8)

2. The Causes of Rebellion

53:2.1 (602.4) Lucifer and his first assistant, Satan, had reigned on Jerusem for more than five hundred thousand years when in their hearts they began to array themselves against the Universal Father and his then vicegerent Son, Michael.

53:2.2 (602.5) There were no peculiar or special conditions in the system of Satania which suggested or favored rebellion. It is our belief that the idea took origin and form in Lucifer’s mind, and that he might have instigated such a rebellion no matter where he might have been stationed. Lucifer first announced his plans to Satan, but it required several months to corrupt the mind of his able and brilliant associate. However, when once converted to the rebel theories, he became a bold and earnest advocate of “self-assertion and liberty.”

53:2.3 (602.6) No one ever suggested rebellion to Lucifer. The idea of self-assertion in opposition to the will of Michael and to the plans of the Universal Father, as they are represented in Michael, had its origin in his own mind
. His relations with the Creator Son had been intimate and always cordial. At no time prior to the exaltation of his own mind did Lucifer openly express dissatisfaction about the universe administration. Notwithstanding his silence, for more than one hundred years of standard time the Union of Days on Salvington had been reflectivating to Uversa that all was not at peace in Lucifer’s mind. This information was also communicated to the Creator Son and the Constellation Fathers of Norlatiadek.

53:2.4 (602.7) Throughout this period Lucifer became increasingly critical of the entire plan of universe administration but always professed wholehearted loyalty to the Supreme Rulers. His first outspoken disloyalty was manifested on the occasion of a visit of Gabriel to Jerusem just a few days before the open proclamation of the Lucifer Declaration of Liberty. Gabriel was so profoundly impressed with the certainty of the impending outbreak that he went direct to Edentia to confer with the Constellation Fathers regarding the measures to be employed in case of open rebellion.

53:2.5 (603.1) It is very difficult to point out the exact cause or causes which finally culminated in the Lucifer rebellion. We are certain of only one thing, and that is: Whatever these first beginnings were, they had their origin in Lucifer’s mind. There must have been a pride of self that nourished itself to the point of self-deception, so that Lucifer for a time really persuaded himself that his contemplation of rebellion was actually for the good of the system, if not of the universe. By the time his plans had developed to the point of disillusionment, no doubt he had gone too far for his original and mischief-making pride to permit him to stop. At some point in this experience he became insincere, and evil evolved into deliberate and willful sin. That this happened is proved by the subsequent conduct of this brilliant executive. He was long offered opportunity for repentance, but only some of his subordinates ever accepted the proffered mercy. The Faithful of Days of Edentia, on the request of the Constellation Fathers, in person presented the plan of Michael for the saving of these flagrant rebels, but always was the mercy of the Creator Son rejected and rejected with increasing contempt and disdain.

3. The Lucifer Manifesto

53:3.1 (603.2) Whatever the early origins of trouble in the hearts of Lucifer and Satan, the final outbreak took form as the Lucifer Declaration of Liberty.


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“fanofVan”, I had to break down your response in order to segregate some of your proposed meaning; whereby I am assuming that in the following statements “requires the following to be a falsification” is referring to the UB quotations which you have presented below your initial presentation presented in segments below.

fanofVan wrote:
Your assertions and proposition requires the following to be a falsification; one of many, if not the entirety of the UB text, and further results in the claim that Van initiated the rebellion, contrary (once again) to the story presented.

You assume above, that I presume the “entirety of the UB text,” “to be a falsification” and by my previous presentation and that “Van initiated the rebellion,” where you indicate by saying “contrary [. . .] to the story presented” that the latter is in your mind is a “story” presented in the Urantia Book, by the revelators, which in many previous posts, you affirm the UB as fact; and in response to my presumed understanding as mentioned, I do not presume “the entirety of the UB text” to be a “falsification”, however I believe your understanding, or reading of the text, to be prejudice to your thoughts as, you wish to understand its context and narration, which is your right, but would also present that, if one does not compliment the text as you perceive, makes other opinions as an indictment that the text is a “falsification”. I do, think that Van, based on the presented text, may have “initiated the rebellion” in that his statements, within text, indicates Caligastia’s undisclosed mandates as a prelude which was “bordering on planetary rebellion”, and at that time, presented his appeal, which would have placed the word “rebellion” into the overall context of the subject which he disagreed with. Your assumption that the Lucifer Manifesto came before this action of Van’s, cannot be validated because “records on Jerusem were obliterated”, as to the Caligastia’s “reign”.

fanofVan wrote:
For any logical consistency, your claims would result in the situation where the rest of Nebadon and its rulers and administration are in league with these Vanonite Rebels and have falsely accused and detained Lucifer, Satan, Caligastia and all those loyal to them contrary to truth, beauty, goodness, love, order, mercy, and justice, while at the same time upholding sin; [. . .]

Your presumption above is based on your statement “while at the same time upholding sin”, where I would ask you to specify exactly what “sin” would the Caligastia Rebels have been guilty of, if the matter of the “Lucifer Rebellion” has not yet been fully adjudicated? Also, in my presentation I do not propose that “the rest of Nebadon and its rulers and administration are in league with” Van, only that the text indicates that there where extenuating circumstances which might indicate that Van and, a select few, may have been manipulating events in order to bring a rebellion into being whereby previous errors could be hidden or “obliterated”. It might seem, from the UB text, that these errors might go back more than one million years, where we know that the revelators have indicated that the UB presentation is in no way complete?

fanofVan wrote:
[. . .] OR that the United Midwayers were allowed to deliver a book of falsehoods in the name of Epochal Revelation, which then requires one to believe that the actual authors listed are either falsified or this conspiracy of yours leads all the way to Orvonton and beyond.

What you present above, is your assumption, attempting to put words in my mouth, or thoughts to readers which alters the purpose of my presentation, however, I will assume it to be in the form of a question, as you have little ability to just come out and ask for my thoughts; where if one examines the narrative of the UB and its grammar, as presented, and remove the fluff inserted, which may have been a deliberate intention by “the United Midwayers” in order to preserve the appearance of loyalty to the Celestial Administration, governing Urantia, and take the ego aggrandizement (fluff) out of the narration, the base structure of the text would take on different meanings. Then you indicate “the United Midwayers” but this does not indicate what proportion of these “Midwayers” might be primary or secondary, nor does it present if these “Midwayers” are of the original 50,000, nor whether their loyalty can be assumed? As far as “the actual authors listed”, I ask how this information came to be present if Urantia is still under quarantine, although there are other methods mentioned in the UB, must we assume that impartial information presented was selective to present a specific intent?

fanofVan wrote:
Never thought I'd hear a tale more incredible than that in the UB - my mistake!!

Just taking the text, as presented; where I do not bite at every worm dangling on every hook. Also, I have in my presentation, asked many questions, held within its narrative, but you seem to disregard any of these, and would rather present your presentation as a method of diverting these questions away from responses, which would also indicate that you either have no clue as to a response or do not have the ability or understanding to present a viable debate?

fanofVan wrote:
2. The Causes of Rebellion


fanofVan wrote:
53:2.1 (602.4) Lucifer and his first assistant, Satan, had reigned on Jerusem for more than five hundred thousand years when in their hearts they began to array themselves against the Universal Father and his then vicegerent Son, Michael.

From the narration above it could be ascertained that if the “five hundred thousand years” may have been presented just prior to the Lucifer Rebellion which would mean that since we know that the Lucifer Rebellion started about “two hundred thousand” years ago, therefore making Caligastia’s reign on Urantia starting “two hundred thousand” years into Lucifer’s reign, which would present Van’s action well within a “three hundred thousand” year time-frame, assuming that the Prince’s Staff came around the same time as Caligastia. However, the narration above does not give specifics as to whether this was anywhere close to the outbreak of the Rebellion? It merely is presented in the section for “The Causes of Rebellion”, and if this was known, why was nothing done to inquire as to this change of attitude?
As an additional note, based on, that we really don't know the exact time-line presented above, there is however, some information which would devaluate my ascertainment that Van may have instigated the Rebellion but would shed a shadow of error somewhere, in that we know from the UB narration presented, that Van took authority for about "one hundred and fifty thousand" years and that this authority was replaced with the arrival of Adam and Eve, where if the Rebellion is about two hundred thousand years old, would this not mean that giving an additional 36,000 years from the current time added to Vans 150,000 years, add up to about 186,000 years or about 200,000 years give of take 10 to 20 thousand years for error or approximation, put the story surrounding the events of Van, around the same time as the onset of the Rebellion? Would this be close enough to put Van's actions and the Lucifer Rebellion at the same time, or one preceding the other? And again, what was it that Van had issue over, where after 300,000 years he had no problems with Caligastia's reign?

fanofVan wrote:
53:2.2 (602.5) There were no peculiar or special conditions in the system of Satania which suggested or favored rebellion. It is our belief that the idea took origin and form in Lucifer’s mind, and that he might have instigated such a rebellion no matter where he might have been stationed. Lucifer first announced his plans to Satan, but it required several months to corrupt the mind of his able and brilliant associate. However, when once converted to the rebel theories, he became a bold and earnest advocate of “self-assertion and liberty.”

It would seem that there are psychiatrists and phycologists in the celestial realm, where the previous statement, presents no facts as to “cause”, only opinion but, if these statements are correctly presented, it would indicate that this information was foreknown and again, what was done? Does this mean that any celestial can do what they will, and that there is nothing in place to correct such a condition as might be presented?

fanofVan wrote:
53:2.3 (602.6) No one ever suggested rebellion to Lucifer. The idea of self-assertion in opposition to the will of Michael and to the plans of the Universal Father, as they are represented in Michael, had its origin in his own mind. His relations with the Creator Son had been intimate and always cordial. At no time prior to the exaltation of his own mind did Lucifer openly express dissatisfaction about the universe administration. Notwithstanding his silence, for more than one hundred years of standard time the Union of Days on Salvington had been reflectivating to Uversa that all was not at peace in Lucifer’s mind. This information was also communicated to the Creator Son and the Constellation Fathers of Norlatiadek.

Again, there is no “cause” presented here, and again if all this was known, why was nothing done?

fanofVan wrote:
53:2.4 (602.7) Throughout this period Lucifer became increasingly critical of the entire plan of universe administration but always professed wholehearted loyalty to the Supreme Rulers. His first outspoken disloyalty was manifested on the occasion of a visit of Gabriel to Jerusem just a few days before the open proclamation of the Lucifer Declaration of Liberty. Gabriel was so profoundly impressed with the certainty of the impending outbreak that he went direct to Edentia to confer with the Constellation Fathers regarding the measures to be employed in case of open rebellion.

The narrative above uses “Supreme Rulers” but, does not extrapolate as to who these rulers were? It could not have been Michael, because he had not yet been proclaimed “Supreme Sovereign”? Yet it does state that Lucifer was “critical of the entire plan of universe administration” but this would not be considered the Fathers plan, or does it? If so, where is the detailed layout of this “plan”, the “plan of universal administration”? Also, “loyalty to the Supreme Rulers” is not the same as “loyalty” to “the plan”?
It might seem that “the Constellation Fathers” might be the body to which “the Supreme Rulers” is making reference? But, again no cause presented here either.

fanofVan wrote:
53:2.5 (603.1) It is very difficult to point out the exact cause or causes which finally culminated in the Lucifer rebellion. We are certain of only one thing, and that is: Whatever these first beginnings were, they had their origin in Lucifer’s mind. There must have been a pride of self that nourished itself to the point of self-deception, so that Lucifer for a time really persuaded himself that his contemplation of rebellion was actually for the good of the system, if not of the universe. By the time his plans had developed to the point of disillusionment, no doubt he had gone too far for his original and mischief-making pride to permit him to stop. At some point in this experience he became insincere, and evil evolved into deliberate and willful sin. That this happened is proved by the subsequent conduct of this brilliant executive. He was long offered opportunity for repentance, but only some of his subordinates ever accepted the proffered mercy. [-

-]The Faithful of Days of Edentia, on the request of the Constellation Fathers, in person presented the plan of Michael for the saving of these flagrant rebels, but always was the mercy of the Creator Son rejected and rejected with increasing contempt and disdain.

The narrative above is filled with questionable format in that the presenters really have no clue as to the “cause” of the Rebellion, not to mention that being “insincere” is evil, and “willful” insincerity is a “sin”, where I ask if being “insincere” – “not sincere; not honest in the expression of actual feeling; hypocritical”, how does this evolve into “deliberate and willful sin”?
Also, I have separated the last sentence in the narration above, because it has nothing to do with the cause of the rebellion, because this statement would apply to a time-frame after the Rebellion was in effect, and would assume guilt or conviction, prior to the fact of adjudication.

fanofVan wrote:
3. The Lucifer Manifesto

53:3.1 (603.2) Whatever the early origins of trouble in the hearts of Lucifer and Satan, the final outbreak took form as the Lucifer Declaration of Liberty.

I’m not sure why you presented this last narration, because it only indicates a non-conclusion by the author, of not knowing. Plus, it might be advantageous to know exactly what was in the “Lucifer Declaration of Liberty”, where a transcript might be nice, but as mentioned in previous posts, “The Lucifer Manifesto” is a summarized opinion as to what it was?


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Caligastia wrote:
.....being “insincere” is evil, and “willful” insincerity is a “sin”, where I ask if being “insincere” – “not sincere; not honest in the expression of actual feeling; hypocritical”, how does this evolve into “deliberate and willful sin”?


Cal - My position on the rebellion and its presentation in the UB is clear and exhaustive and I've no interest in debating you further about your insistence on re-writing it in your own image. However, I find this question most interesting.

How and why does insincerity result in disconnection from reality? What is sincerity and what is its value? How does the lack of sincerity interfere with mind and spirit progress?

39:4.14 (435.7) The keys of the kingdom of heaven are: sincerity, more sincerity, and more sincerity. All men have these keys. Men use them — advance in spirit status — by decisions, by more decisions, and by more decisions. The highest moral choice is the choice of the highest possible value, and always — in any sphere, in all of them — this is to choose to do the will of God. If man thus chooses, he is great, though he be the humblest citizen of Jerusem or even the least of mortals on Urantia.

112:2.20 (1229.7) The material self, the ego-entity of human identity, is dependent during the physical life on the continuing function of the material life vehicle, on the continued existence of the unbalanced equilibrium of energies and intellect which, on Urantia, has been given the name life. But selfhood of survival value, selfhood that can transcend the experience of death, is only evolved by establishing a potential transfer of the seat of the identity of the evolving personality from the transient life vehicle — the material body — to the more enduring and immortal nature of the morontia soul and on beyond to those levels whereon the soul becomes infused with, and eventually attains the status of, spirit reality. This actual transfer from material association to morontia identification is effected by the sincerity, persistence, and steadfastness of the God-seeking decisions of the human creature.

112:5.5 (1233.1) And it is this very power of choice, the universe insignia of freewill creaturehood, that constitutes man’s greatest opportunity and his supreme cosmic responsibility. Upon the integrity of the human volition depends the eternal destiny of the future finaliter; upon the sincerity of the mortal free will the divine Adjuster depends for eternal personality; upon the faithfulness of mortal choice the Universal Father depends for the realization of a new ascending son; upon the steadfastness and wisdom of decision-actions the Supreme Being depends for the actuality of experiential evolution.

And the Master said:

149:6.11 (1676.5) “You do well to be meek before God and self-controlled before men, but let your meekness be of spiritual origin and not the self-deceptive display of a self-conscious sense of self-righteous superiority. The prophet spoke advisedly when he said, ‘Walk humbly with God,’ for, while the Father in heaven is the Infinite and the Eternal, he also dwells ‘with him who is of a contrite mind and a humble spirit.’ My Father disdains pride, loathes hypocrisy, and abhors iniquity. And it was to emphasize the value of sincerity and perfect trust in the loving support and faithful guidance of the heavenly Father that I have so often referred to the little child as illustrative of the attitude of mind and the response of spirit which are so essential to the entrance of mortal man into the spirit realities of the kingdom of heaven.

149:6.12 (1677.1) “Well did the Prophet Jeremiah describe many mortals when he said: ‘You are near God in the mouth but far from him in the heart.’ And have you not also read that direful warning of the prophet who said: ‘The priests thereof teach for hire, and the prophets thereof divine for money. At the same time they profess piety and proclaim that the Lord is with them.’ Have you not been well warned against those who ‘speak peace to their neighbors when mischief is in their hearts,’ those who ‘flatter with the lips while the heart is given to double-dealing’? Of all the sorrows of a trusting man, none are so terrible as to be ‘wounded in the house of a trusted friend.’”

140:8.20 (1582.1) Jesus did not attack the teachings of the Hebrew prophets or the Greek moralists. The Master recognized the many good things which these great teachers stood for, but he had come down to earth to teach something additional, “the voluntary conformity of man’s will to God’s will.” Jesus did not want simply to produce a religious man, a mortal wholly occupied with religious feelings and actuated only by spiritual impulses. Could you have had but one look at him, you would have known that Jesus was a real man of great experience in the things of this world. The teachings of Jesus in this respect have been grossly perverted and much misrepresented all down through the centuries of the Christian era; you have also held perverted ideas about the Master’s meekness and humility. What he aimed at in his life appears to have been a superb self-respect. He only advised man to humble himself that he might become truly exalted; what he really aimed at was true humility toward God. He placed great value upon sincerity — a pure heart. Fidelity was a cardinal virtue in his estimate of character, while courage was the very heart of his teachings. “Fear not” was his watchword, and patient endurance his ideal of strength of character. The teachings of Jesus constitute a religion of valor, courage, and heroism. And this is just why he chose as his personal representatives twelve commonplace men, the majority of whom were rugged, virile, and manly fishermen.

8)


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