Urantia Book Forum

Urantia Book Discussion Board : Study Group
It is currently Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:22 am +0000

All times are UTC - 7 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 164 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 ... 11  Next
Author Message
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 3759
From my in box this morning:


A Thought to Ponder from The Urantia Book




"Man, a mechanism, is much more than a machine; he is mind endowed and spirit indwelt ... he can increasingly learn how to subordinate this physical-life machine to the directive wisdom of experience by the process of consecrating the human mind to the execution of the spiritual urges of the indwelling Thought Adjuster."

(1301.7) 118:8.2

There is only one side in reality and it is the living truth.

8)


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 10:40 am +0000
Posts: 9
Is The Urantia Book the Living Truth? No, it's an announcement.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 3759
And a map of the cosmos and an ascender's guide book for the pilgrim's path into truth, beauty, and goodness. For the factual elimination of error and illumination to reduce our confusion.

:wink: :!: 8)


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 10:40 am +0000
Posts: 9
Yes, Brad's got it right.

Oh, and yes Johnny, with the help of TUB we can honestly be, Living Truth.

8) Onward!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 3759
Some text to consider related to the living truth and living the truth:

(1097.5) 100:4.1 Religious living is devoted living, and devoted living is creative living, original and spontaneous. New religious insights arise out of conflicts which initiate the choosing of new and better reaction habits in the place of older and inferior reaction patterns. New meanings only emerge amid conflict; and conflict persists only in the face of refusal to espouse the higher values connoted in superior meanings.

(1097.6) 100:4.2 Religious perplexities are inevitable; there can be no growth without psychic conflict and spiritual agitation. The organization of a philosophic standard of living entails considerable commotion in the philosophic realms of the mind. Loyalties are not exercised in behalf of the great, the good, the true, and the noble without a struggle. Effort is attendant upon clarification of spiritual vision and enhancement of cosmic insight. And the human intellect protests against being weaned from subsisting upon the nonspiritual energies of temporal existence. The slothful animal mind rebels at the effort required to wrestle with cosmic problem solving.

(1097.7) 100:4.3 But the great problem of religious living consists in the task of unifying the soul powers of the personality by the dominance of LOVE. Health, mental efficiency, and happiness arise from the unification of physical systems, mind systems, and spirit systems. Of health and sanity man understands much, but of happiness he has truly realized very little. The highest happiness is indissolubly linked with spiritual progress. Spiritual growth yields lasting joy, peace which passes all understanding.

(1100.5) 100:6.3 The marks of human response to the religious impulse embrace the qualities of nobility and grandeur. The sincere religionist is conscious of universe citizenship and is aware of making contact with sources of superhuman power. He is thrilled and energized with the assurance of belonging to a superior and ennobled fellowship of the sons of God. The consciousness of self-worth has become augmented by the stimulus of the quest for the highest universe objectives — supreme goals.

(1101.1) 100:6.6 One of the most amazing earmarks of religious living is that dynamic and sublime peace, that peace which passes all human understanding, that cosmic poise which betokens the absence of all doubt and turmoil. Such levels of spiritual stability are immune to disappointment. Such religionists are like the Apostle Paul, who said: “I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else shall be able to separate us from the love of God.”

(1101.2) 100:6.7 There is a sense of security, associated with the realization of triumphing glory, resident in the consciousness of the religionist who has grasped the reality of the Supreme, and who pursues the goal of the Ultimate.

Are we happy? Calm? Poised? Confident? Joyful? Thankful? Peaceful? If so, then we are living the truth and it abides within us and will deliver us to Paradise. We have become love responsive and reality focused. Anxieties, fears, doubts, and anger are but mind poisons of immaturity and lack of the recognition of and response to truth and its Source. Peace.

8)


Last edited by fanofVan on Wed May 27, 2015 7:40 am +0000, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 3759
As to Louis's constant claim that the Papers are dead ink on paper and do not represent the truth, the authors and the authorities who present this Book of Truth and Facts, offer this:

Acknowledgment

(16.8) 0:12.11 In formulating the succeeding presentations having to do with the portrayal of the character of the Universal Father and the nature of his Paradise associates, together with an attempted description of the perfect central universe and the encircling seven superuniverses, we are to be guided by the mandate of the superuniverse rulers which directs that we shall, in all our efforts to reveal truth and co-ordinate essential knowledge, give preference to the highest existing human concepts pertaining to the subjects to be presented. We may resort to pure revelation only when the concept of presentation has had no adequate previous expression by the human mind.

(17.1) 0:12.12 Successive planetary revelations of divine truth invariably embrace the highest existing concepts of spiritual values as a part of the new and enhanced co-ordination of planetary knowledge. Accordingly, in making these presentations about God and his universe associates, we have selected as the basis of these papers more than one thousand human concepts representing the highest and most advanced planetary knowledge of spiritual values and universe meanings. Wherein these human concepts, assembled from the God-knowing mortals of the past and the present, are inadequate to portray the truth as we are directed to reveal it, we will unhesitatingly supplement them, for this purpose drawing upon our own superior knowledge of the reality and divinity of the Paradise Deities and their transcendent residential universe.

(17.2) 0:12.13 We are fully cognizant of the difficulties of our assignment; we recognize the impossibility of fully translating the language of the concepts of divinity and eternity into the symbols of the language of the finite concepts of the mortal mind. But we know that there dwells within the human mind a fragment of God, and that there sojourns with the human soul the Spirit of Truth; and we further know that these spirit forces conspire to enable material man to grasp the reality of spiritual values and to comprehend the philosophy of universe meanings. But even more certainly we know that these spirits of the Divine Presence are able to assist man in the spiritual appropriation of all truth contributory to the enhancement of the ever-progressing reality of personal religious experience — God-consciousness.

(17.3) 0:12.14 [Indited by an Orvonton Divine Counselor, Chief of the Corps of Superuniverse Personalities assigned to portray on Urantia the truth concerning the Paradise Deities and the universe of universes.]


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:47 am +0000
Posts: 171
Quote:
180:5.2 Divine truth is a spirit-discerned and living reality. Truth exists only on high spiritual levels of the realization of divinity and the consciousness of communion with God. You can know the truth, and you can live the truth; you can experience the growth of truth in the soul and enjoy the liberty of its enlightenment in the mind, but you cannot imprison truth in formulas, codes, creeds, or intellectual patterns of human conduct. When you undertake the human formulation of divine truth, it speedily dies. The post-mortem salvage of imprisoned truth, even at best, can eventuate only in the realization of a peculiar form of intellectualized glorified wisdom. Static truth is dead truth, and only dead truth can be held as a theory. Living truth is dynamic and can enjoy only an experiential existence in the human mind.


My understanding is that while the "dead ink" on the papers do represent the truth, they are a static or dead truth, and as the papers state, the teachings only become living truth when they are lived within a human mind. The book itself is not "living truth" but the truth it contains can become so through our thoughts, actions and experiences.

_________________
"If a man places a gulf between himself and God, this gulf will bring fear. But if a man finds the support of the Invisible and Ineffable, he is free from fear." --from the Taittiriya Upanishad


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:16 pm +0000
Posts: 1001
Location: Nanticoke NY
Why would you claim that the Reality-Perspective is a "side". To me, in the rare moments I have gathered truth from the centered-perspective, there is no "sidedness" of this perspective, because this perspective like the rays of the sun travels/disseminates in every direction.

_________________
to the Underlaying Unity of All Life so that the Voice of Intuition may guide Us closer to Our Common Keeper


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 3:15 pm +0000
Posts: 232
fanofVan wrote:
Is music true as notes on paper? Yes. But it is the living truth only when played by the instrument and the musician.

Yes, music is true as notes on paper. I experienced, my father sit [at] a table and write, arrange music for his dance band and 36 piece brass band, without needing to listen to each instruments presentation of the notes he placed on paper. Not to mention that he was a taught orchestra conductor, arranger and composer, where I watched him take sheet music for a violin and write page upon page of music for various multiple instruments without needing to hear his arrangement played, because for the most part he felt and herd the music in his mind, which prior to him having lost his hearing in one ear and 60% in the other, he still did not need to hear to be able to write the notes on paper.
It is not always necessary to experience music which is written on paper if you can hear what you read. (one example: Beethoven) Music theory as in mathematics is a precise art and need not always be heard to be felt. As with music being played by a musician from the notes on the page as prepared by the composer, also has punctuation and other grammar notations instructing the musician, as to how to play the composition, and often a conductor will instruct in what manor they wish to have a piece played or presented, therefore the Urantia Book, having been presented via celestial means, would take on a different life dependent on how it was edited and punctuation applied, which would then be altered by non celestial minds, thereby having been influenced by others.


Last edited by Caligastia on Wed May 27, 2015 2:47 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 3759
Perhaps we should consider the differences and similarities in "true", "truths", and living truth?

While I agree that spiritual truth must be lived and personalized for any effect or value to any individual, this does not mean that facts are not true. The UB is a book of facts and truths. Facts are facts, known or unknown, believed or not believed - the individual experience and perspective do not change facts.

Truth also means truthfulness and I believe the UB to be true and truthful - a sincere and accurate expression of reality. To say or think the UB is not true or reliable because it is not a person is to ignore all the definitions of true and truth in favor of but one. The living truth is dynamic and only partially realizable to ascenders which does not mean the partial truth realized is not living truth for it is; it is not the totality of truth. Thus, the purpose of the Supreme to reflect the actualization of all "living truth" as opposed to the "absolute" truth known only to the First Source and Center.

Frankly, I confess my irrationality for believing the UB is even true; how could it be? It defies reason and logic. It is more reasonable to accept the truths within but discard its claims for itself as not rational or true either one. But when one comes to conclude by experience in living the truths within and studying the text in its totality and wholeness that it must be true, then I wonder how such a one comes to conclude it is not truthful or reliable but is instead a form of rumor or gossip or hearsay or celestial propaganda meant to purposefully distort and deceive? It was written by celestials as an epochal revelation but it is not true? Most unusual reckoning.

I came to believe the UB is what it claims by applying the Sherlock Holmes method of reasoning - when once you eliminate the probable, and then the possible as explanation....then the explanation can only be the impossible. I came to conclude that no human mind could either concoct or construct such a book leaving only the impossible - it is what it says it is.

But it is ludicrous to try and convince rational people of accepting such an impossibility....that is even more irrational and doomed to failure. So we must each determine for ourselves what is true within, what truths are confirmed in mind, what to do with those, and whether claims made become living truth....because we live them.

There are facts presented which were not factually known or theorized when written or published. The scientific method will continue to confirm much of what is written in the UB. But the clincher for me is its self denial - it contains nothing required for survival, spirit growth, fruits of the spirit, ascendency, transcendency, or eternity. There is no demand for belief or ceremony. There are but facts and truths for the discerning mind to apply to a harmonized philosophy of living and techniques for aspiring believers and religionists to accelerate spiritual growth by eliminating error and reducing confusion for the mind of those engaged with God upon the pilgrim's path.

Or so I see it.

8)


Last edited by fanofVan on Wed May 27, 2015 2:41 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 3:15 pm +0000
Posts: 232
fanofVan wrote:
I came to believe the UB is what it claims by applying the Sherlock Holmes method of reasoning - when once you eliminate the probable, and then the possible as explanation....then the explanation can only be the impossible. I came to conclude that no human mind could either concoct or construct such a book leaving only the impossible - it is what it says it is.

I'm not going to disagree with you method of "deductive reasoning" "fanofVan", but it might help if you quoted Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's fictional character, "Sherlock Holmes" correctly, I believe that the quote is as follows, from "The Sign of the Four (Doubleday p. 111)" as being: "How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?" -- not "eliminate the probable, and then the possible as explanation....then the explanation can only be the impossible."
Is it possible that your confusion may have something to do with your "method of reasoning", sorry I had to look it up because something didn't sound right?

However, if you were to say -- If what is presented in the UB is not "impossible" than "whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?", then I might understand your reasoning, where at a certain point we do not know what is "impossible", where it has been said, "with God, all things are possible."


Last edited by Caligastia on Wed May 27, 2015 3:09 pm +0000, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 3759
Thanks Cal - no need to apologize for correction and accuracy!! Yes, I misremembered it from my youth so long ago - I should have looked it up myself. My confirmation of your correction brought up this one:

"Eliminate all other factors, and the one which remains must be the truth."

Sherlock Holmes Quote

Me here: By this one below and posted by Cal, the reasoning process remains - I determined it was impossible, over a long period of time and many readings for a human mind or group of human minds to have written the UB. The only conclusion was the highly improbable remainder, and it is highly improbable, that the UB must indeed be what it claims to be as no other solution was possible!! An interesting way to determine that which is true!! The internet is so cool...instant access to unlimited information.....including a whole site on Sherlock's sayings.

'It is an old maxim of mine that when you have excluded the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.'

Sherlock Holmes Quote


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 3:15 pm +0000
Posts: 232
fanofVan wrote:
Me here: By this one below and posted by Cal, the reasoning process remains - I determined it was impossible, over a long period of time and many readings for a human mind or group of human minds to have written the UB. The only conclusion was the highly improbable remainder, and it is highly improbable, that the UB must indeed be what it claims to be as no other solution was possible!! [. . .]

"fanofVan" -- I agree that you can use whatever "reasoning process" that you wish and I do see how you have determined your reasoning and belief, but as I have read in your words that it is up to the individual reader to determine what is "truth" and "fact" and I do not claim that the UB has not truth, although some things which may be perceived as "fact", as you say is yet to be determined as "fact". There are things presented in the UB which can be said, are difficult to assess as "fact" or "truth" only because much cannot be proven. But, to assume that since a reader is not capable of understanding much of the content presented, it is only, in most cases, presented as possible, or maybe probable. I have no problem with possible or probable, but I do have a problem with the indication that Jesus, would condone and or use some of the implied "truths" presented as "fact" without the presentation of the UB presenting some proof as to the definitive statements made within, specifically regarding actions by accused characters.
However, in my reading, I have noted much information which would not logically fit into what any person might do under certain circumstances, where even if a person who may be considered as insane, might do something which can be presented as an insane action, but to indicate that a person is insane because they disagree with a policy which may be misunderstood would be insane. Even in our society there are many sides to capital punishment, and regardless of my belief in such a matter, it still requires proof beyond a shadow of doubt before execution. And there have been many instances where persons have been sentenced to death and later proof was found that vindicated them from that sentence. But, you are saying that because the UB has indicated guilt, and that prior to a verdict, of any kind has been presented, your understanding of the UB presentation is a final verdict before the "fact" of execution. Therefore, your definite conclusion of guilt based on your understanding precedes all other evidence, yet to be presented. This type of thinking would not be as Jesus taught use. And any writing which proffers in its text, that Jesus would even imply such a thought, would be unacceptable to me.


Last edited by Caligastia on Thu May 28, 2015 7:40 pm +0000, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:17 am +0000
Posts: 137
Van Amadon wrote:
Is The Urantia Book the Living Truth? No, it's an announcement.


Agreed. An announcement is a foretelling of things to come. Some are in great need of such an announcement. Others have the saving grace of Faith. Some are confused and are in need of facts. What is needed is more Faith, not facts.


Van Amadon wrote:
Oh, and yes Johnny, with the help of TUB we can honestly be, Living Truth.


But can we be Living Truth without TUB? Even the illiterate and uneducated that cannot "study" TUB, or read a map, can and do become the Living Truth. Do we need the help of TUB? Do we need any book, for that matter?

Those with simple Faith and undying devotion to God can easily understand the Gospel message. "Our Father who is in Heaven" This is the essence of our sonship with the Devine and our brotherhood with men.

fanofVan wrote:
And a map of the cosmos and an ascender's guide book for the pilgrim's path into truth, beauty, and goodness. For the factual elimination of error and illumination to reduce our confusion.


If facts fail to eliminate error and become the source of greater confusion, try a little more FAITH. "You gotta have Faith!, Faith!, Faith!" The pilgrim's path will be illuminated by Our Father and guided with a little help from our brothers. :smile:

Peace

PS The problem with facts is that you never have all of the facts. Such is not the case with Faith.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 3759
We are told by the revelators that we do, indeed, need epochal revelation and that the mortal epochal transformation evolution is served and dependent upon epochal, as well as personal, revelation. Louis again denies and defies the text clearly. Urantia most desperately needs such ministry due to the fall of our Prince, the default of the Garden, and the fact that we have no leadership and example presence on our world (we do have Michael's gift and TA and the Mother Spirit). We wander in our progress in ways that do require additional assistance to the angels of progress and religion to eliminate error and reduce confusion in this unique way on this unique world. This book is to become a common book for common folk over centuries and many generations to come we are told and is a tool of truth and a torch of light to our world. Such flippant disparagement for something so important is one's right of course. And the book, itself, clearly says those with faith have that which will lead them home.

Louis, the revelation obviously has not touched and transformed your life sufficiently for you to appreciate its value and derive meaning but your constant criticism of it and belittlements are a wonder....why then attend here? Why read it? What is your agenda? A not so subtle debunker and doubt seed sower? It is but dead words of ink on paper to you so why bother yourself with it and about it?

This presentation of guilt and innocence and evidence and hearsay and justice and injustice belittles God and his universe. It is so typical of man to reduce god into our own image and ascribe our own limitations and frailties and faults upon Deity. Are we to think God does not know the minds and heart and intent and sincerity of every creature high and low? We are told otherwise. Does Michael not rule his universe as God's Creator Son, now Master Son with full authority and integrity and wisdom and love? Are we to fear false accusation, false witness, hearsay, and lack of facts might lead to injustice and wrongful outcomes? Is that what your "faith" leads you to believe Louis? What faith leads to such a fearful paranoia about this friendly universe ruled by divine love and mercy?

This humanization of the heavenly abode is most unfortunate.....a form of transference of mortal onto divine. There is no question as to whether there was rebellion against Michael and a denial of God's existence. The "trial" is within each rebel and leader. There was no need for the evidence Satan presented against himself in the form of the Manifesto and the open defiance which followed. Lucifer's troubled mind was already known by his superiors long before we are told. Man must judge by the acts of man, but God judges by the heart and knows its pureness and lack thereof to the finest iota. No one hides anything from God. So I was taught in Sunday School long long ago and without the UB to tell me how this is so. As we transcend from material to spirit, at every junction of progress and every new level of spiritization, we are "measured" as to our purity and sincerity and progress in the Spirit. We are "known". The rebels are known too. As is Lucifer, Satan, Cali and Dali, and all such conspirators. There is no hiding of the truth of one's "self".

The mandate of free will requires that the choices and expression of "self" are inviolate - but that does not mean they are unknown or even in doubt by some. We are told that sin carries the very seed of its own destruction. The sentence of death by iniquity is a sentence of suicide and with fair warning given in infinite love and divine mercy to allow the sinner ample opportunity to turn away from such choices of false liberty and by such a repentance to be eagerly received back into the family of God. To suspect and claim that such a process of divine mercy and love is somehow unfair or unreliable is a rebuke directly to God and his love for all. It is insulting and childish and raw humanism at its very worst. Have faith indeed.

I must go for now and for a few days of refreshing retreat (vacation). I will be reading but not posting for a short season. I am most grateful to my fellow readers who find comfort, guidance, illumination, inspiration, and nourishment for our faith in this most wonderful gift we share here together. And for you fearful doubters I wish only the comfort of the spirit within us each for you that your troubled minds may find peace and solace for the pilgrim's path we trod together. Your belief or lack thereof in this revelation is of no great import to our shared destiny. Fear not and put your trust in God - he will not fail us in our faith. Peace.

Brad 8)


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 164 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 ... 11  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Registered users: maryjo606


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You can post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group