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In another topic, "quil" asked a question, imbedded within his response, listed below, which deserves a response, although this question was somewhat asked, in response to my first post, but did not warrant a response, based on how it was presented, although I did reply with information which was pertinent to that topic and that remark.

http://truthbook.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=62150#p62150
quil wrote:
Cal,
[. . .]
The only other reservation I have that keeps surfacing as bias and prejudice when reading your posts is your choice to use Caligastia as your handle on this forum. At first glance it screams immaturity (like a rebel teenager). Though I still disagree with some of your conclusions, you seem pretty grounded, so I am sure you have your reasons for choosing that nick. Surely you knew this would bother some people, though? I can't find a good reason a person would name themselves that other than attention-seeking. At the very least it is distasteful. I can provide other examples of names that would fall in the same category, but I trust you get my point.
- quil

For the most part my choice of the avatar name of "Caligastia" had several reasons, some which I cannot directly mention here, but for the most part, it was an experiment in human nature, to see who many individuals would respond to a poster who choose a "avatar name" who's character in the Urantia Book, was presented as a villain, although if one actually studies the entries in the UB regarding this character, one might find that initially he was just following orders, from the system authority, not much different than being in the military, and having to actualize orders as instructed, whether the officer agrees or disagrees with such orders.

Also, in its choosing, being that the narration in the UB, indicated that Jesus saw him fall, and also that his existence was still a presence on Urantia, would make the "name", by itself, a method of segregating individual feelings of readers and responders, based on the characters presentation within the narration of the Urantia Book.
Needless to say, I was not disappointed in what I expected to see here, which was quite interesting.

So, as an experiment in experiencing various reactions to specific names or words being used in the UB, it would be interesting to know how individuals would characterize "Caligastia" as presented in the Urantia Book, and to see if additional study into this character, could determine who he really is or was and whether his continued presence on Urantia, as indicated in the narration of the UB, could change perspective about him?
Where, if necessary, I would take on the role as to defend this character, based on the context of the Urantia Book.


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Cal - what your motives, intentions, agenda, and character may be, I know not. Your presentation however mirrors that of Louis, loucol, Manny, and Johnnybones (all the same person). And not just by your sympathy to the fallen prince - he also is enamored by the #1 and zero and the three concentric circles as illustrative of far greater mystical or metaphorical or metaphysical representations and takes disagreement or misunderstanding as a personal insult and when shown to be wrong about a claim which posted text exposes as wrong then changes course and subject without acknowledgement and also spells speak as "speck" consistently. Perhaps you are not him as you have claimed or perhaps you are his "brother by another mother".....or perhaps that claim is also insincere.

In any case, your decision to bait the water to see the reaction is an interesting perversion of honesty and intention and does not sit well with your audience here...or is it your lab rats in an experiment? Regardless, while you have answered an "honest question", your answer is far less honest....still...."had several reasons, some which I cannot directly mention here". To be less than forthright is, by definition, to be deceptive. Deception itself is a form of falsehood and very misguided and dishonest and is a true insult to those sincere students here who share in the discovery and discussion of epochal revelation - truths within truth. You offer deceptions within experiments. Very bad form. Sincerity, sincerity, sincerity....this is how we are measured.

As to the original and real Caligastia whose name you assume for purposes of your own, he is not innocent and his free will was not abrogated by any being or authority and such an excuse is telling, very telling. Like loucol, you presume to criticize the presentation in text of God's love and control and mercy ministry for each and every creature and being - that the innocent might be charged or subject to anger or vengeance or misunderstanding or rumor or ridicule or any form of injustice. It is an outrageous position....far more grievous than your chosen moniker but just as revealing. You misunderstand Caligastia's acts and free will choice but he is not misunderstood by the UB and there is no ambiguity presented in the Urantia Papers. I wonder if you think all the choices he made AFTER the rebellion from the times of Van and the Garden up to Jesus' walk upon the world were also because he "was just following orders"? Whose orders? No free will? Poppycock!! He gave orders to the rebel midwayers and obstructed Michael's plans at every turn and opportunity.

Caligastia was a betrayer....a most lowly form of iniquity:

1. The Caligastia Betrayal


(754.3) 67:1.2 In the course of this inspection Satan informed Caligastia of Lucifer’s then proposed “Declaration of Liberty,” and as we now know, the Prince agreed to betray the planet upon the announcement of the rebellion. The loyal universe personalities look with peculiar disdain upon Prince Caligastia because of this premeditated betrayal of trust. The Creator Son voiced this contempt when he said: “You are like your leader, Lucifer, and you have sinfully perpetuated his iniquity. He was a falsifier from the beginning of his self-exaltation because he abode not in the truth.”

(754.4) 67:1.3 In all the administrative work of a local universe no high trust is deemed more sacred than that reposed in a Planetary Prince who assumes responsibility for the welfare and guidance of the evolving mortals on a newly inhabited world. And of all forms of evil, none are more destructive of personality status than betrayal of trust and disloyalty to one’s confiding friends. In committing this deliberate sin, Caligastia so completely distorted his personality that his mind has never since been able fully to regain its equilibrium.

(754.5) 67:1.4 There are many ways of looking at sin, but from the universe philosophic viewpoint sin is the attitude of a personality who is knowingly resisting cosmic reality. Error might be regarded as a misconception or distortion of reality. Evil is a partial realization of, or maladjustment to, universe realities. But sin is a purposeful resistance to divine reality — a conscious choosing to oppose spiritual progress — while iniquity consists in an open and persistent defiance of recognized reality and signifies such a degree of personality disintegration as to border on cosmic insanity.

(755.1) 67:1.5 Error suggests lack of intellectual keenness; evil, deficiency of wisdom; sin, abject spiritual poverty; but iniquity is indicative of vanishing personality control.

(755.2) 67:1.6 And when sin has so many times been chosen and so often been repeated, it may become habitual. Habitual sinners can easily become iniquitous, become wholehearted rebels against the universe and all of its divine realities. While all manner of sins may be forgiven, we doubt whether the established iniquiter would ever sincerely experience sorrow for his misdeeds or accept forgiveness for his sins.


:-$ =; :roll: 8)


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Thank you so much Brad for sharing your thoughts.

Cal, I also agree that the pretext in which you operate is in the best of characterizations that I can muster, inconsiderate. To experiment with me or anyone else is an affront to my dignity and is not Godlike.

And I too have had my suspicions regarding your identity from the start. Originally I gave you the benefit of the doubt, as certain textual indicators did not appear to line up. Though in your original post in this thread, the evidence I used to argue to myself you are a separate identity is no longer there. Particularly the difference in use of quotations was interesting to me. It appears to me you usually type up your responses in Word or some other editor and paste them here. Curiously, you seem to have forgotten to do that when you started this thread.

I will also reveal what first tipped me off was your response to a medical marijuana thread. You had an establishment response (i.e. a response that I would expect from someone who works in the pharmaceutical / medical industry, particularly from a sales rep or an MD, ARNP, or PA). I recall loucul mentioning having patients and people stealing things from the waiting room. At the time I found that quite curious, as well.

And in general, there's an amorphous quality to your writing that instinctively reminds me of loucul. Either you guys think very much alike or are the same person. Given his propensity to form alter identities on this forum, I think you are in fact the same person.


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quil wrote:
Thank you so much Brad for sharing your thoughts.

Cal, I also agree that the pretext in which you operate is in the best of characterizations that I can muster, inconsiderate. To experiment with me or anyone else is an affront to my dignity and is not Godlike.

And I too have had my suspicions regarding your identity from the start. Originally I gave you the benefit of the doubt, as certain textual indicators did not appear to line up. Though in your original post in this thread, the evidence I used to argue to myself you are a separate identity is no longer there. Particularly the difference in use of quotations was interesting to me. It appears to me you usually type up your responses in Word or some other editor and paste them here. Curiously, you seem to have forgotten to do that when you started this thread.

I will also reveal what first tipped me off was your response to a medical marijuana thread. You had an establishment response (i.e. a response that I would expect from someone who works in the pharmaceutical / medical industry, particularly from a sales rep or an MD, ARNP, or PA). I recall loucul mentioning having patients and people stealing things from the waiting room. At the time I found that quite curious, as well.

And in general, there's an amorphous quality to your writing that instinctively reminds me of loucul. Either you guys think very much alike or are the same person. Given his propensity to form alter identities on this forum, I think you are in fact the same person.




You are way off, Quil. You are out of bounds here with me. I was very upfront about who I am. Loucol (Louis) and Manny (my middle name) on UAI forum. I rejoined here as Johnnybones, my sons nickname, because I needed a whole new username to get back on the forum.

I told all this before but you either do not read what I write or are very selective as what you remember about what I write. It is obvious that you do not like doctors. I hope that you never need one.

I told everyone who I thought Caligastia's aliases were but you did not care to read it. Caligastia is Ewald; Midi (Midichlorian); As Above, so Below; etc.

You are way off man.

BTW, what avatar is Quil? Urban dictionary says, Quil. "A laid back, very flirtatious guy who is strong and well endowed. He is everyone's friend and is sweet, but can beat your ass if you push him over the edge."

Is this what you wanted to convey by the use of Quil? :roll:

It is now obvious that you do not like me. That is fine. I do not care but I must set the record straight. I am not fond of your either but I love you as my brother, regardless. :smile:

Peace, Louis


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I don't have access to server logs, so I can't see IP addresses to get to the bottom of it (though this can easily be worked around). I have my suspicions, but they are just that. I can only go with what I see and what my gut tells me. That doesn't mean I'm right. I really hope I am wrong.

I remember what you told me. It's just bad form to use more than one nick in a forum. In a way that's a form of deception. So you will need to forgive me for being suspicious.

I am sorry that you think that I don't like you. It's not true, but I doubt I can convince you of that. I am sorry you are not fond of me. At worst my feelings are neutral toward you. I just like the truth more than anything else, and sometimes I can be abrasive when I seek it.

Also, I like doctors. I just don't like the bills they send me. :)

That you go after the nick I use is also interesting. I wasn't aware of the urban dictionary entry when I chose the nick. It's a play on my real name, if you'd like to know.

It's curious to me how quickly you pounced on this topic. And how defensive your tone is. I would have expected that tone from Cal, not you.


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fanofVan wrote:
Cal - what your motives, intentions, agenda, and character may be, I know not. Your presentation however mirrors that of Louis, loucol, Manny, and Johnnybones (all the same person). And not just by your sympathy to the fallen prince - he also is enamored by the #1 and zero and the three concentric circles as illustrative of far greater mystical or metaphorical or metaphysical representations and takes disagreement or misunderstanding as a personal insult and when shown to be wrong about a claim which posted text exposes as wrong then changes course and subject without acknowledgement and also spells speak as "speck" consistently. Perhaps you are not him as you have claimed or perhaps you are his "brother by another mother".....or perhaps that claim is also insincere.



I was wrong about you Bradly. You have not jumped a circle, you have jumped the shark. Thank you for your opinion above. You have a right to your freedom of speech. I have an opinion of you also. You are hypocritical and hold things idolatrous. You are a vengeful, wounded soul. You and Quil expose yourselves. Find a quote that attacks others points of view. You are good at that. 8)

I will let Caligastia speck for himself. :razz:


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quil wrote:
I don't have access to server logs, so I can't see IP addresses to get to the bottom of it (though this can easily be worked around). I have my suspicions, but they are just that. I can only go with what I see and what my gut tells me. That doesn't mean I'm right. I really hope I am wrong.

I remember what you told me. It's just bad form to use more than one nick in a forum. In a way that's a form of deception. So you will need to forgive me for being suspicious.

I am sorry that you think that I don't like you. It's not true, but I doubt I can convince you of that. I am sorry you are not fond of me. At worst my feelings are neutral toward you. I just like the truth more than anything else, and sometimes I can be abrasive when I seek it.

Also, I like doctors. I just don't like the bills they send me. :)

That you go after the nick I use is also interesting. I wasn't aware of the urban dictionary entry when I chose the nick. It's a play on my real name, if you'd like to know.

It's curious to me how quickly you pounced on this topic. And how defensive your tone is. I would have expected that tone from Cal, not you.



What is your real name, Quil? You must hate doctors because you do not think they they should be paid for their services. You are very curious by your own admission. Well, I will satisfy your curiosity by telling you that I do not like to have my identity stolen or confused. What if I told you that I was suspicious that you were Satan? Not very nice, right? But you must forgive me for this suspicion. :smile:

Being neutral towards someone is the worst. I would prefer that you hated me. At least that would mean that you feel something towards me.

Please check the IP addresses, please. It would help keep you and Bradly from making false accusations. :(


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Louis this all is just very strange to me. Why would you care about what nick I chose? If I caused a defensive reaction about nicks in anybody, it would be Cal. He would be the one most likely to nitpick at my forum name, not you. I think you might have mixed up your personas there.

And that you respond so quickly and with such vitrol indicates to me that we've struck a nerve. As a TUB reader, I am very experienced with dealing with defensive reactions from people when they are confronted with the truth, when they feel naked and exposed and insecure. I know when the truth shakes their core. I know because I've been there myself, too. None of us like feeling that way.

I am sorry, I really hate pushing this but I feel like your actions are giving you away. Will someone else OTHER than Louis or Cal offer a differing opinion to help me with my own perspective and bias? Can someone else point out a flaw in my reasoning, please?


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Sounds like Crazy Town is throwing a party!! :roll:

Sometimes you are known by your friends and sometimes those who revile you become your best witness by the contrast they provide. Louis, I wish you well but am not particularly grieved by your low opinion of me and I do not try to hide by an endless sequence of aliases. No matter where you go (or what you call yourself).....there YOU are, still. (an old hippie hitchhiker saying)

I look forward to Cal's response but the topic itself, regardless of identities, is one that has been explored already in some depth by many of us, recently, including Louis. Happy to revisit the issue. All who will...speck up.

Brad 8)


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fanofVan wrote:
Like loucol, you presume to criticize the presentation in text of God's love and control and mercy ministry for each and every creature and being - that the innocent might be charged or subject to anger or vengeance or misunderstanding or rumor or ridicule or any form of injustice. It is an outrageous position....far more grievous than your chosen moniker but just as revealing.


You defend TUB as if it were a person and you use TUB to attack persons. These are examples of your idolatry and hypocrisy.

And you are sneaky and dishonest in your backhanded attacks. You started this one, Bradly. And Quil followed suit. And I too call it as I see it. You don't have Bonita here to join the crazy party, unfortunately.

@ Quil. I don't care what your 'nick' is, frankly. You are always so curious and always find things strange. But I did not question your identity. You started this by riding FOV coattails. And Bradly, alias fanofVan, alias old hippy dude, alias hitchhiker, alias tadpole, is not one to join in with. Idolatry and hypocrisy was not welcomed by Jesus. Please do not go there.


BTW, did either of you take note of my verbal sparring with Caligastia in the thread "Metaphysical Confusion" is General Discussion??? Could you not have acknowledged this before jumping to conclusions about my identity? No, both of you are attackers.


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fanofVan wrote:
Cal - what your motives, intentions, agenda, and character may be, I know not.
[. . .]
In any case, your decision to bait the water to see the reaction is an interesting perversion of honesty and intention and does not sit well with your audience here...or is it your lab rats in an experiment? Regardless, while you have answered an "honest question", your answer is far less honest....still...."had several reasons, some which I cannot directly mention here". To be less than forthright is, by definition, to be deceptive. Deception itself is a form of falsehood and very misguided and dishonest and is a true insult to those sincere students here who share in the discovery and discussion of epochal revelation - truths within truth. You offer deceptions within experiments. Very bad form. Sincerity, sincerity, sincerity....this is how we are measured.

As to the original and real Caligastia whose name you assume for purposes of your own, he is not innocent and his free will was not abrogated by any being or authority and such an excuse is telling, very telling. [. . .] you presume to criticize the presentation in text of God's love and control and mercy ministry for each and every creature and being - that the innocent might be charged or subject to anger or vengeance or misunderstanding or rumor or ridicule or any form of injustice. It is an outrageous position....far more grievous than your chosen moniker but just as revealing. You misunderstand Caligastia's acts and free will choice but he is not misunderstood by the UB and there is no ambiguity presented in the Urantia Papers. I wonder if you think all the choices he made AFTER the rebellion from the times of Van and the Garden up to Jesus' walk upon the world were also because he "was just following orders"? Whose orders? No free will? Poppycock!! He gave orders to the rebel midwayers and obstructed Michael's plans at every turn and opportunity.
[. . .]

Thank you “fanofVan” for your opinion and I am not surprised at your response but, otherwise expected it. That’s exactly what I intended for this topic but, your mudslinging against other individuals is not necessary and would not be indicative of someone who preaches “God’s Love” and “mercy of His Son, Jesus”, for which, I am glade that you are not part of “Gabriel vs. Lucifer”, adjudication process, because it would seem that you would sentence anyone even remotely associated to the rebellion to a death sentence.

Quote:
(58.1) 4:3.3 Much, very much, of the difficulty which Urantia mortals have in understanding God is due to the far-reaching consequences of the Lucifer rebellion and the Caligastia betrayal. On worlds not segregated by sin, the evolutionary races are able to formulate far better ideas of the Universal Father; they suffer less from confusion, distortion, and perversion of concept.

(58.2) 4:3.4 God repents of nothing he has ever done, now does, or ever will do. He is all-wise as well as all-powerful. Man’s wisdom grows out of the trials and errors of human experience; God’s wisdom consists in the unqualified perfection of his infinite universe insight, and this divine foreknowledge effectively directs the creative free will.

(58.3) 4:3.5 The Universal Father never does anything that causes subsequent sorrow or regret, but the will creatures of the planning and making of his Creator personalities in the outlying universes, by their unfortunate choosing, sometimes occasion emotions of divine sorrow in the personalities of their Creator parents. But though the Father neither makes mistakes, harbors regrets, nor experiences sorrows, he is a being with a father’s affection, and his heart is undoubtedly grieved when his children fail to attain the spiritual levels they are capable of reaching with the assistance which has been so freely provided by the spiritual-attainment plans and the mortal-ascension policies of the universes.

(58.4) 4:3.6 The infinite goodness of the Father is beyond the comprehension of the finite mind of time; hence must there always be afforded a contrast with comparative evil (not sin) for the effective exhibition of all phases of relative goodness. Perfection of divine goodness can be discerned by mortal imperfection of insight only because it stands in contrastive association with relative imperfection in the relationships of time and matter in the motions of space.


Nevertheless, to your points made regarding “Caligastia”, you are correct in that the Urantia Book portrays him as a “betrayer”, but the question is a “betrayer” to what? Where, it would be inappropriate for the authors to present all of the information behind the “betrayal” but, does setup certain evidences which just might indicate that those higher-ups may have set him and Adam and Eve up for default, having assigned them to an impossible task, whereby being destined to fail.

Quote:
(741.3) 66:1.1 Caligastia was a Lanonandek Son, number 9,344 of the secondary order. He was experienced in the administration of the affairs of the local universe in general and, during later ages, with the management of the local system of Satania in particular.

(741.4) 66:1.2 Prior to the reign of Lucifer in Satania, Caligastia had been attached to the council of the Life Carrier advisers on Jerusem. Lucifer elevated Caligastia to a position on his personal staff, and he acceptably filled five successive assignments of honor and trust.

(741.5) 66:1.3 Caligastia very early sought a commission as Planetary Prince, but repeatedly, when his request came up for approval in the constellation councils, it would fail to receive the assent of the Constellation Fathers. Caligastia seemed especially desirous of being sent as planetary ruler to a decimal or life-modification world. His petition had several times been disapproved before he was finally assigned to Urantia.


It would seem that “Caligastia” had experience with “the Life Carrier” work therefore his interest in a “life-modification world” – but it would seem that he was destined to be assigned to “Urantia”, why put him off several time, if not to wait for “the Constellation Fathers” to assign him to an especial difficult planet, “Urantia”. But, his assignment had already been, long time ready for a Planetary Prince, why the delay?

Quote:
(735.8) 65:4.9 On an ordinary inhabited world a Planetary Prince would have been granted on the request of the Life Carriers at, or sometime after, the appearance of Andon and Fonta. But Urantia having been designated a life-modification planet, it was by preagreement that the Melchizedek observers, twelve in number, were sent as advisers to the Life Carriers and as overseers of the planet until the subsequent arrival of the Planetary Prince. These Melchizedeks came at the time Andon and Fonta made the decisions which enabled Thought Adjusters to indwell their mortal minds.


But why send the “Melchizedek observers,” instead of sending a “Planetary Prince”? Maybe there were thinks going on, on Urantia, which was out of the ordinary, like genetic experimentation which went awry, which required some cleanup, possibly to correct some mistakes which were made?

Quote:
(736.1) 65:4.10 On Urantia the endeavors of the Life Carriers to improve the Satania life patterns necessarily resulted in the production of many apparently useless forms of transition life. But the gains already accrued are sufficient to justify the Urantia modifications of the standard life designs.

(736.2) 65:4.11 It was our intention to produce an early manifestation of will in the evolutionary life of Urantia, and we succeeded. Ordinarily, will does not emerge until the colored races have long been in existence, usually first appearing among the superior types of the red man. Your world is the only planet in Satania where the human type of will has appeared in a precolored race.

(736.3) 65:4.12 But in our effort to provide for that combination and association of inheritance factors which finally gave rise to the mammalian ancestors of the human race, we were confronted with the necessity of permitting hundreds and thousands of other and comparatively useless combinations and associations of inheritance factors to take place. Many of these seemingly strange by-products of our efforts are certain to meet your gaze as you dig back into the planetary past, and I can well understand how puzzling some of these things must be to the limited human viewpoint.


So, since there was a delay in assigning “Caligastia” to Urantia, was he assigned to “Urantia”, knowing that he had worked with the “Life Carriers” in the past, and might better understand what needed to be done, based on, that nothing like the life presented on “Urantia” was ever perceived of in the past and that “Caligastia” was “brilliant” enough to handle anything that might occur, should anything go wrong? And then, was he told of the premature circumstances which developed on Urantia, where now there was no precedent to present for training anyone?

Quote:
(735.6) 65:4.7 There were many unique features of the Urantia life experiment, but the two outstanding episodes were the appearance of the Andonic race prior to the evolution of the six colored peoples and the later simultaneous appearance of the Sangik mutants in a single family. Urantia is the first world in Satania where the six colored races sprang from the same human family. They ordinarily arise in diversified strains from independent mutations within the prehuman animal stock and usually appear on earth one at a time and successively over long periods of time, beginning with the red man and passing on down through the colors to indigo.

(735.7) 65:4.8 Another outstanding variation of procedure was the late arrival of the Planetary Prince. As a rule, the prince appears on a planet about the time of will development; and if such a plan had been followed, Caligastia might have come to Urantia even during the lifetimes of Andon and Fonta instead of almost five hundred thousand years later, simultaneously with the appearance of the six Sangik races.


So, who is at fault here, if we humans are a byproduct of genetic experimentation? And, it would seem that someone hide this from many personalities who might not have been willing to attempt applying the so called “normal plan” which had been proven elsewhere, to work, but was doomed from the get go, on Urantia. In this case, one might have to through away the guide book and write a new one. Not to mention what we humans have to go through to correct the problems created by others who could not wait for the normal plan of evolution?

Quote:
(735.2) 65:4.3 Many features of human life afford abundant evidence that the phenomenon of mortal existence was intelligently planned, that organic evolution is not a mere cosmic accident. When a living cell is injured, it possesses the ability to elaborate certain chemical substances which are empowered so to stimulate and activate the neighboring normal cells that they immediately begin the secretion of certain substances which facilitate healing processes in the wound; and at the same time these normal and uninjured cells begin to proliferate — they actually start to work creating new cells to replace any fellow cells which may have been destroyed by the accident.

(735.3) 65:4.4 This chemical action and reaction concerned in wound healing and cell reproduction represents the choice of the Life Carriers of a formula embracing over one hundred thousand phases and features of possible chemical reactions and biologic repercussions. More than half a million specific experiments were made by the Life Carriers in their laboratories before they finally settled upon this formula for the Urantia life experiment.

(735.4) 65:4.5 When Urantia scientists know more of these healing chemicals, they will become more efficient in the treatment of injuries, and indirectly they will know more about controlling certain serious diseases.

(735.5) 65:4.6 Since life was established on Urantia, the Life Carriers have improved this healing technique as it has been introduced on another Satania world, in that it affords more pain relief and exercises better control over the proliferation capacity of the associated normal cells.


So, based on the last two UB quotes above, the “Life Carriers” are experimenting on other worlds, based on what they screwed up on Urantia, and at least they have enough respect to tell us that when we get our crap together, we may be able to help fix our problems created by mistakes made by others.

All this tells me is that it would seem that we are on our own, until someone gets around to help use with information that will alleviate our own pain and suffering. And then to blame everything on a rebellion, which everyone knew that it would cause a quarantine of this planet and others unfortunate to be an experimental planet. At least we were quarantined before we could infect any other poor unfortunate souls.

So, “fanofVan” thanks for being the first to reply to an experiment in finding the truth. Believe what you will, there is a whole lot more to be presented, so bring it on.

And as a side note: to your statement regarding: "still...."had several reasons, some which I cannot directly mention here". To be less than forthright is, by definition, to be deceptive", I don't think that you really want to know who I really am, besides is it not enough that Our Father knows? As long as we know who we are in "know thy self" should be sufficient for anyone. And if you were to conduct yourself as through and by Jesus' teachings, then maybe you might be worthy.


Last edited by Caligastia on Fri May 22, 2015 8:42 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Despite the apparent differences in cadence and tone between the two personas, I still see similarities. For instance, in the last post, right out of the gate Cal mentions "Gabriel vs Lucifer" -- was this not something you previously fixated on, Louis? I seem to recall posts where you brought it up. I even think I recall where you and Brad got into a heated discussion about it.

Also when Cal says "Believe what you will, there is a whole lot more to be presented, so bring it on." two things strike me:

1. Louis, you claimed there was a lot you were going to be presenting in other threads in the General Discussion forum. So I guess now that Cal is here, we are blessed with not one, but two great revelators of truth on this forum?

2. The closing of Cal's post to "bring it on" attitude also reminds me of certain tones you took on in those discussions-- this combative, "everyone doesn't believe me now but will eventually will see how wrong they are" mentality...

If in the review of the logs, admins find that each persona has a different IP address, this is not proof that each persona isn't the same person. Nowadays there are many ways to achieve this. Two different ISPs (easy to do in "rich" countries, home broadband for one account, and perhaps wireless 3/4G for another account). Or post one persona from work and another from home. Or just go find one of countless proxy services out there. It wouldn't surprise me if this last one was the route that was actually taken. If anyone has been banned from a forum based on IP, that would drive them to find out about such services.

Further, just because there was 'discussion' in another thread between the personas also doesn't prove anything. If you are dedicated to this agenda of presenting your supposed truths, it becomes more likely that you would engage in such tactics. Either that or really you are just a troll getting a major kick out of the whole thing.

To accuse anyone of going to these extremes is very disheartening to me. And I do fear I've entered a trap of confirmation bias. I cannot examine this situation objectively anymore. So I will withdraw now from the topic for good and let others figure all of this out. Once again, I truly, sincerely hope I am wrong.


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While I remain confused as to whether I failed or "passed" this test, or trap, much has been revealed to be sure; and perhaps my own human weaknesses and character flaws included....once again. Sigh....oh well. Onward.

It is a sorrowful pity Cal that you feel abandoned, that we are all abandoned by the Most Highs and the angelic hosts on this experimental sphere...now known as the Shrine of Nebadon and a Seraphic Headquarters with a universe Master Son's attention and affection. This is sad to learn. I can now the better understand your query.

The UB says that the rebellion was a System rebellion, certainly not originating on Urantia nor about Urantia. But then, the only information available regarding these events with any detail are within the UB. I will not presume to tell anyone to believe what is written in what claims to be celestial authored, epochal revelation and the belief by any in this claim affords nothing to those who do not. What I find curious though is the reliance upon the text by those who do not believe the text to present theories contrary to the text. Weird.

So now we have a conspiracy theory at the level of the Super Universe and Local Universe which determined to purposely undermine the power, purpose, and plan of divine love and creation. But Urantia was the target? And the goal was the failure/betrayal of a Prince and a Material Son and Daughter so that our world and its billions of souls would suffer for these failures? Well, that would explain things for sure - hahaha! We are victims of others afterall and not by our free will choices and failure to hear the voice and seek out truth, beauty, and goodness and the divine nature within and live accordingly. So we can't help ourselves and our cruel life is no fault of our own. Certainly Michael perpetuated this conspiracy by hanging himself on the tree, not from love of all but to further torture us and leave us alone and abandoned.

That's quite a theory Cal. This then would prove, beyond doubt, that the UB is a pack of lies and propaganda by the creators and their nefarious agents of torture and condemnation. Why then waste precious time for self assertion by reading such a fiction of manipulation I wonder? Or are there hidden keys within for our redemption and salvation? And who will lead us into this "truth"?

However, while I have never doubted the mortal's ability for evil, sin, and iniquity, for a Prince and System Sovereign to fall into treachery and betrayal and rebellion has, indeed, kept me intrigued. So, if material in the UB can guide us into discussion and discovery about the Prince's fall, I am all ears! An epic tragedy for the ages. But the claim of unfairness or being misunderstood by Deity and Divinity and Gabriel and the Ancients is malarkey and is a dead horse that deserves no more beating.

And despite your accusations about my blood thirsty appetite for revenge, I am not worthy to judge or condemn any other, most especially a Prince. I trust in God's mercy ministry and ability to know all within and without and his certainty as one's sincerity, motive, love response, sanity, and inability to accept divine mercy and his patience and process for such determinations. Another identical claim as Louis's and worded the same. Next you'll be claiming I hope for and attempt your personal murder like he did too. Good Grief!

And Cal, my indifference as to your identity is replete. Our words are identity enough and our acts confirm that to all with the ear to hear and eye to see. We all stand equal to those who create, care for, and guide us all to the same destiny with endless love and a guiding light as bright as we each can perceive it.

I hope you will forgive me for my confusion regarding some similarities in pattern and position with Louis. It's just that in over 40 years as study group and conference attendee, and my years on multiple forums, Louis was the first to show such sympathy for Caligastia and Lucifer and such distrust for those who rule in the kingdoms of men and angels and the universe of universes. And now, so soon after, I have met another. As I proposed, perhaps then after all, you and he are just brothers from another mother. An interesting coincidence and confluence of perspective then; accepted and acknowledged. And no matter of import either way.

I await further testing.

8)


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53:8.4 The Son of Man was confident of success, and he knew that his triumph on your world would forever settle the status of his agelong enemies, not only in Satania but also in the other two systems where sin had entered. There was survival for mortals and security for angels when your Master, in reply to the Lucifer proposals, calmly and with divine assurance replied, “Get you behind me, Satan.” That was, in principle, the real end of the Lucifer rebellion. True, the Uversa tribunals have not yet rendered the executive decision regarding the appeal of Gabriel praying for the destruction of the rebels, but such a decree will, no doubt, be forthcoming in the fullness of time since the first step in the hearing of this case has already been taken.

53:9.4Satan could come to Urantia because you had no Son of standing in residence—neither Planetary Prince nor Material Son. Machiventa Melchizedek has since been proclaimed vicegerent Planetary Prince of Urantia, and the opening of the case of Gabrielvs. Lucifer has signalized the inauguration of temporary planetary regimes on all the isolated worlds. It is true that Satan did periodically visit Caligastia and others of the fallen princes right up to the time of the presentation of these revelations. when there occurred the first hearing of Gabriel’s plea for the annihilation of the archrebels. Satan is now unqualifiedly detained on the Jerusem prison worlds.


We see the determination of the prosecutor but we never hear from the defense. I have no sympathies for the accused rebels, but I would like to hear their side. Apparently others do not care to entertain anything but one side. Ultimately, justice will prevail in the Universe of Universes.

It is unfortunate that some would give personality to words on paper and pledge allegiance to the Book and take an oath by the Book. A Golden Calf, by any other object, is still an idol.

@ Quil I too, sincerely hope you are wrong also, about my true identity, that is. Please PM if and when you find out for sure. Don't spend too much time on the case, however, it can turn into an obsession.


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I sincerely hope this forum doesn't turn into another UBRON.

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"If a man places a gulf between himself and God, this gulf will bring fear. But if a man finds the support of the Invisible and Ineffable, he is free from fear." --from the Taittiriya Upanishad


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