Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 3:15 pm +0000 Posts: 232
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fanofVan wrote: Cal - what your motives, intentions, agenda, and character may be, I know not. [. . .] In any case, your decision to bait the water to see the reaction is an interesting perversion of honesty and intention and does not sit well with your audience here...or is it your lab rats in an experiment? Regardless, while you have answered an "honest question", your answer is far less honest....still...."had several reasons, some which I cannot directly mention here". To be less than forthright is, by definition, to be deceptive. Deception itself is a form of falsehood and very misguided and dishonest and is a true insult to those sincere students here who share in the discovery and discussion of epochal revelation - truths within truth. You offer deceptions within experiments. Very bad form. Sincerity, sincerity, sincerity....this is how we are measured.
As to the original and real Caligastia whose name you assume for purposes of your own, he is not innocent and his free will was not abrogated by any being or authority and such an excuse is telling, very telling. [. . .] you presume to criticize the presentation in text of God's love and control and mercy ministry for each and every creature and being - that the innocent might be charged or subject to anger or vengeance or misunderstanding or rumor or ridicule or any form of injustice. It is an outrageous position....far more grievous than your chosen moniker but just as revealing. You misunderstand Caligastia's acts and free will choice but he is not misunderstood by the UB and there is no ambiguity presented in the Urantia Papers. I wonder if you think all the choices he made AFTER the rebellion from the times of Van and the Garden up to Jesus' walk upon the world were also because he "was just following orders"? Whose orders? No free will? Poppycock!! He gave orders to the rebel midwayers and obstructed Michael's plans at every turn and opportunity. [. . .] Thank you “fanofVan” for your opinion and I am not surprised at your response but, otherwise expected it. That’s exactly what I intended for this topic but, your mudslinging against other individuals is not necessary and would not be indicative of someone who preaches “God’s Love” and “mercy of His Son, Jesus”, for which, I am glade that you are not part of “Gabriel vs. Lucifer”, adjudication process, because it would seem that you would sentence anyone even remotely associated to the rebellion to a death sentence.
Quote: (58.1) 4:3.3 Much, very much, of the difficulty which Urantia mortals have in understanding God is due to the far-reaching consequences of the Lucifer rebellion and the Caligastia betrayal. On worlds not segregated by sin, the evolutionary races are able to formulate far better ideas of the Universal Father; they suffer less from confusion, distortion, and perversion of concept.
(58.2) 4:3.4 God repents of nothing he has ever done, now does, or ever will do. He is all-wise as well as all-powerful. Man’s wisdom grows out of the trials and errors of human experience; God’s wisdom consists in the unqualified perfection of his infinite universe insight, and this divine foreknowledge effectively directs the creative free will.
(58.3) 4:3.5 The Universal Father never does anything that causes subsequent sorrow or regret, but the will creatures of the planning and making of his Creator personalities in the outlying universes, by their unfortunate choosing, sometimes occasion emotions of divine sorrow in the personalities of their Creator parents. But though the Father neither makes mistakes, harbors regrets, nor experiences sorrows, he is a being with a father’s affection, and his heart is undoubtedly grieved when his children fail to attain the spiritual levels they are capable of reaching with the assistance which has been so freely provided by the spiritual-attainment plans and the mortal-ascension policies of the universes.
(58.4) 4:3.6 The infinite goodness of the Father is beyond the comprehension of the finite mind of time; hence must there always be afforded a contrast with comparative evil (not sin) for the effective exhibition of all phases of relative goodness. Perfection of divine goodness can be discerned by mortal imperfection of insight only because it stands in contrastive association with relative imperfection in the relationships of time and matter in the motions of space.
Nevertheless, to your points made regarding “Caligastia”, you are correct in that the Urantia Book portrays him as a “betrayer”, but the question is a “betrayer” to what? Where, it would be inappropriate for the authors to present all of the information behind the “betrayal” but, does setup certain evidences which just might indicate that those higher-ups may have set him and Adam and Eve up for default, having assigned them to an impossible task, whereby being destined to fail.
Quote: (741.3) 66:1.1 Caligastia was a Lanonandek Son, number 9,344 of the secondary order. He was experienced in the administration of the affairs of the local universe in general and, during later ages, with the management of the local system of Satania in particular.
(741.4) 66:1.2 Prior to the reign of Lucifer in Satania, Caligastia had been attached to the council of the Life Carrier advisers on Jerusem. Lucifer elevated Caligastia to a position on his personal staff, and he acceptably filled five successive assignments of honor and trust.
(741.5) 66:1.3 Caligastia very early sought a commission as Planetary Prince, but repeatedly, when his request came up for approval in the constellation councils, it would fail to receive the assent of the Constellation Fathers. Caligastia seemed especially desirous of being sent as planetary ruler to a decimal or life-modification world. His petition had several times been disapproved before he was finally assigned to Urantia.
It would seem that “Caligastia” had experience with “the Life Carrier” work therefore his interest in a “life-modification world” – but it would seem that he was destined to be assigned to “Urantia”, why put him off several time, if not to wait for “the Constellation Fathers” to assign him to an especial difficult planet, “Urantia”. But, his assignment had already been, long time ready for a Planetary Prince, why the delay?
Quote: (735.8) 65:4.9 On an ordinary inhabited world a Planetary Prince would have been granted on the request of the Life Carriers at, or sometime after, the appearance of Andon and Fonta. But Urantia having been designated a life-modification planet, it was by preagreement that the Melchizedek observers, twelve in number, were sent as advisers to the Life Carriers and as overseers of the planet until the subsequent arrival of the Planetary Prince. These Melchizedeks came at the time Andon and Fonta made the decisions which enabled Thought Adjusters to indwell their mortal minds.
But why send the “Melchizedek observers,” instead of sending a “Planetary Prince”? Maybe there were thinks going on, on Urantia, which was out of the ordinary, like genetic experimentation which went awry, which required some cleanup, possibly to correct some mistakes which were made?
Quote: (736.1) 65:4.10 On Urantia the endeavors of the Life Carriers to improve the Satania life patterns necessarily resulted in the production of many apparently useless forms of transition life. But the gains already accrued are sufficient to justify the Urantia modifications of the standard life designs.
(736.2) 65:4.11 It was our intention to produce an early manifestation of will in the evolutionary life of Urantia, and we succeeded. Ordinarily, will does not emerge until the colored races have long been in existence, usually first appearing among the superior types of the red man. Your world is the only planet in Satania where the human type of will has appeared in a precolored race.
(736.3) 65:4.12 But in our effort to provide for that combination and association of inheritance factors which finally gave rise to the mammalian ancestors of the human race, we were confronted with the necessity of permitting hundreds and thousands of other and comparatively useless combinations and associations of inheritance factors to take place. Many of these seemingly strange by-products of our efforts are certain to meet your gaze as you dig back into the planetary past, and I can well understand how puzzling some of these things must be to the limited human viewpoint.
So, since there was a delay in assigning “Caligastia” to Urantia, was he assigned to “Urantia”, knowing that he had worked with the “Life Carriers” in the past, and might better understand what needed to be done, based on, that nothing like the life presented on “Urantia” was ever perceived of in the past and that “Caligastia” was “brilliant” enough to handle anything that might occur, should anything go wrong? And then, was he told of the premature circumstances which developed on Urantia, where now there was no precedent to present for training anyone?
Quote: (735.6) 65:4.7 There were many unique features of the Urantia life experiment, but the two outstanding episodes were the appearance of the Andonic race prior to the evolution of the six colored peoples and the later simultaneous appearance of the Sangik mutants in a single family. Urantia is the first world in Satania where the six colored races sprang from the same human family. They ordinarily arise in diversified strains from independent mutations within the prehuman animal stock and usually appear on earth one at a time and successively over long periods of time, beginning with the red man and passing on down through the colors to indigo.
(735.7) 65:4.8 Another outstanding variation of procedure was the late arrival of the Planetary Prince. As a rule, the prince appears on a planet about the time of will development; and if such a plan had been followed, Caligastia might have come to Urantia even during the lifetimes of Andon and Fonta instead of almost five hundred thousand years later, simultaneously with the appearance of the six Sangik races.
So, who is at fault here, if we humans are a byproduct of genetic experimentation? And, it would seem that someone hide this from many personalities who might not have been willing to attempt applying the so called “normal plan” which had been proven elsewhere, to work, but was doomed from the get go, on Urantia. In this case, one might have to through away the guide book and write a new one. Not to mention what we humans have to go through to correct the problems created by others who could not wait for the normal plan of evolution?
Quote: (735.2) 65:4.3 Many features of human life afford abundant evidence that the phenomenon of mortal existence was intelligently planned, that organic evolution is not a mere cosmic accident. When a living cell is injured, it possesses the ability to elaborate certain chemical substances which are empowered so to stimulate and activate the neighboring normal cells that they immediately begin the secretion of certain substances which facilitate healing processes in the wound; and at the same time these normal and uninjured cells begin to proliferate — they actually start to work creating new cells to replace any fellow cells which may have been destroyed by the accident.
(735.3) 65:4.4 This chemical action and reaction concerned in wound healing and cell reproduction represents the choice of the Life Carriers of a formula embracing over one hundred thousand phases and features of possible chemical reactions and biologic repercussions. More than half a million specific experiments were made by the Life Carriers in their laboratories before they finally settled upon this formula for the Urantia life experiment.
(735.4) 65:4.5 When Urantia scientists know more of these healing chemicals, they will become more efficient in the treatment of injuries, and indirectly they will know more about controlling certain serious diseases.
(735.5) 65:4.6 Since life was established on Urantia, the Life Carriers have improved this healing technique as it has been introduced on another Satania world, in that it affords more pain relief and exercises better control over the proliferation capacity of the associated normal cells.
So, based on the last two UB quotes above, the “Life Carriers” are experimenting on other worlds, based on what they screwed up on Urantia, and at least they have enough respect to tell us that when we get our crap together, we may be able to help fix our problems created by mistakes made by others.
All this tells me is that it would seem that we are on our own, until someone gets around to help use with information that will alleviate our own pain and suffering. And then to blame everything on a rebellion, which everyone knew that it would cause a quarantine of this planet and others unfortunate to be an experimental planet. At least we were quarantined before we could infect any other poor unfortunate souls.
So, “fanofVan” thanks for being the first to reply to an experiment in finding the truth. Believe what you will, there is a whole lot more to be presented, so bring it on.
And as a side note: to your statement regarding: "still...."had several reasons, some which I cannot directly mention here". To be less than forthright is, by definition, to be deceptive", I don't think that you really want to know who I really am, besides is it not enough that Our Father knows? As long as we know who we are in "know thy self" should be sufficient for anyone. And if you were to conduct yourself as through and by Jesus' teachings, then maybe you might be worthy.
Last edited by Caligastia on Fri May 22, 2015 8:42 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.
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