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There is a book, now out of print, entitled:
"Edgar Cayce and the Urantia Book," by Karen L. Pressler John M. Bunker.

Questions:

1. Has anyone seen/read the book? Can I assume it's making a case that the famous psychic
Edgar Cayce was involved somehow?

2. The Truthbook web site and wiki both link Dr. Sadler with the material.
Was Dr. Sadler the note-taker or the person in trance relaying the material?

3. Is it possible that Dr. Sadler was working with Cayce?


I've read some of the Edgar Cacye material and I'm struck by the use of certain phrases and ideas used both in TUB
and the Cacye material, such as "The Fatherhood of God and the Brotherhood of Man."
Of course any divinely revealed information might be expected to use similar terminology.

While on the subject, is anyone here a student of the both the Cayce material and TUB?
And if so could you expound upon any differences, similarities, or overlap between the two
bodies of work?


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Well I can help you with question number 1. I have done a little bit of research on Cayce. His work is not similar to the Urantia Book. He believes in Reincarnation which is a HUGE mistake according to the u.b. Cayce talks ALOT about past lives in which the u.b states we have never had a prior life. He seems to overlap alot with the bible and mostly new age. An interesting note though is that he has acknowledged Melkizedek.

Alot of these older new-age religionists seem to have been inspired by the Tibetans religion. The biggest similarity's with Cayce is probably found in the founders of new age thinking. Here are a few of the founders: Emma Curtis Hopkins (1849-1925), Spiritualist leader Andrew Jackson Davis (1826-1910), and Theosophy founders H.P. Blavatsky (1831-1891) and Henry Steele Olcott (1832-1907). Blavatsky seems to be the most famous one of them all.

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According to Cayce, the incarnations of the Christ soul were as follows: Adam, Enoch, Melchizedek, Joseph, Joshua, Jeshua (the scribe chiefly responsible for forming the Hebrew Bible according to Cayce) and finally Jesus.


I am not surprised he used Enoch though that name is very popular among new-age circles. However Mechizedek is a mysterious biblical figure that scholars are not even really sure of. Also the language he uses is not similar to the language in the Urantia Book, so he obviously did not write it.

Question 2. There are probably a few individuals who can find you a link to some of the best descriptions of how the urantia book came about, I don't have those links in front of me. From what I have read it seems that the sleeping subject was not really aware of what was happening and when he become informed about what he was doing he did not really make a big deal out of it and acted almost aloof about the entire process. It would seem that the sleeping subject had one of the most experienced Thought Adjusters on the planet that was preparing this individual his entire life to serve the planet in this unique way. Anyways there is much more information on this, I am sure someone here can provide you a link. I do doubt that Cayce was involved in this, I don't believe he lived in Chicago either and all of this took place in Chicago.

The individual who was involved as the conduit threw which these papers came about, seemed to have gone about his business without wanting any attention. The unualness of someone having the ablity to have a revelation go threw him and yet remain almost aloof as to the entire experience seems to be one of the rearest and greatest traits that this man had. Cayce definitely was not aloof and in seclusion about his own experiences.

Cayce seems to have just self induced trances and went threw a mystic state. These states can produce actual hallucinations and images. Reminds me of this quote.

Quote:
"While they may have practiced deception in minor matters, the great majority of the shamans believed in the fact of their spirit possession. Women who were able to throw themselves into a trance or a cataleptic fit became powerful shamanesses; later, such women became prophets and spirit mediums. Their cataleptic trances usually involved alleged communications with the ghosts of the dead. Many female shamans were also professional dancers."
Quote:
"But not all shamans were self-deceived; many were shrewd and able tricksters. As the profession developed, a novice was required to serve an apprenticeship of ten years of hardship and self-denial to qualify as a medicine man. The shamans developed a professional mode of dress and affected a mysterious conduct. They frequently employed drugs to induce certain physical states which would impress and mystify the tribesmen. Sleight-of-hand feats were regarded as supernatural by the common folk, and ventriloquism was first used by shrewd priests. Many of the olden shamans unwittingly stumbled onto hypnotism; others induced autohypnosis by prolonged staring at their navels."

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Wow, a very thorough and informed reply. Thanks.

I think that answers all my questions.
I will look for some links on Dr. Sadler some time


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DR. William S. Sadler 8)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_S._Sadler

http://urantiabook.org/archive/history/wssjr1.htm

http://urantiabook.org/index_history.htm

http://www.truthbook.com/index.cfm?linkID=603

http://www.ubhistory.org/StoriesandPeop ... adler.html

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As was brought up earlier, the u.b describes the mystic state as a place in which we can hallucinate and see/hear illusions made by our mind. Essentially the story of a man walking threw the desert and seeing a mirage by his weakened state is possible according to the u.b. Here is some quotes about this state. I imagine this is the state that Cayce was in.

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100:5.6 If one is disposed to recognize a theoretical subconscious mind as a practical working hypothesis in the otherwise unified intellectual life, then, to be consistent, one should postulate a similar and corresponding realm of ascending intellectual activity as the superconscious level, the zone of immediate contact with the indwelling spirit entity, the Thought Adjuster. The great danger in all these psychic speculations is that visions and other so-called mystic experiences, along with extraordinary dreams, may be regarded as divine communications to the human mind. In times past, divine beings have revealed themselves to certain God-knowing persons, not because of their mystic trances or morbid visions, but in spite of all these phenomena.

100:5.7 In contrast with conversion-seeking, the better approach to the morontia zones of possible contact with the Thought Adjuster would be through living faith and sincere worship, wholehearted and unselfish prayer. Altogether too much of the uprush of the memories of the unconscious levels of the human mind has been mistaken for divine revelations and spirit leadings.

100:5.8 There is great danger associated with the habitual practice of religious daydreaming; mysticism may become a technique of reality avoidance, albeit it has sometimes been a means of genuine spiritual communion. Short seasons of retreat from the busy scenes of life may not be seriously dangerous, but prolonged isolation of personality is most undesirable. Under no circumstances should the trancelike state of visionary consciousness be cultivated as a religious experience.

100:5.9 The characteristics of the mystical state are diffusion of consciousness with vivid islands of focal attention operating on a comparatively passive intellect. All of this gravitates consciousness toward the subconscious rather than in the direction of the zone of spiritual contact, the superconscious. Many mystics have carried their mental dissociation to the level of abnormal mental manifestations.

100:5.10 The more healthful attitude of spiritual meditation is to be found in reflective worship and in the prayer of thanksgiving. The direct communion with one's Thought Adjuster, such as occurred in the later years of Jesus' life in the flesh, should not be confused with these so-called mystical experiences. The factors which contribute to the initiation of mystic communion are indicative of the danger of such psychic states. The mystic status is favored by such things as: physical fatigue, fasting, psychic dissociation, profound aesthetic experiences, vivid sex impulses, fear, anxiety, rage, and wild dancing. Much of the material arising as a result of such preliminary preparation has its origin in the subconscious mind.

100:5.11 However favorable may have been the conditions for mystic phenomena, it should be clearly understood that Jesus of Nazareth never resorted to such methods for communion with the Paradise Father. Jesus had no subconscious delusions or superconscious illusions.


Interesting to note here is that they are admitting that it is possible to have a subconscious delusion and a superconscious illusion. This also explains how so many psycics can seem so honest about talking to the dead and hear a literal voice. It is definitely possible that someone could perfect a technique to get into this state and literally hear voices and see strange images. You could really carry on a conversation with another voice, and this is a well documented disorder lol.

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Uncle Vinny says: "Of course any divinely revealed information might be expected to use similar terminology."

WHOA right there! Any? Divinely revealed? Anyone read it?

Cayce and Sadler in the same sentence would have Dr. Sadler both spinning and laughing in his grave cousin. That's about like claiming Babe Ruth and Bart Starr played for the same team when they didn't even play the same sport!!

I know every family has one but you are beginning to sound a lot like Crazy Uncle Vinny there man.

UFOs
Alien abductions
Angels sexually assaulting humans to procreate super children
Heavenly or other worldly emergency interventions
Pet heaven
Edgar Cayce
Course in Miracles

What's next....candle lit pentegrams and conjuring up the dead or the devil himself.....voodoo hoodoo?

Now none of these in and of themselves sound particularly strange to TUB believers, we are frequented by those new readers and/or skeptics with one or two such preconceptions....but then they do not claim to be long time readers or believers in TUB either.... but you do. Your questions and statements both reveal you are really neither student nor believer....perhaps you have merely had possession of the Book for 3 decades? And your questions indicate an indifference to or unwillingness to crack the Book open and read what's written. Perhaps you should begin all posts in the Skeptics Corner until you have read it? I tremble to ask for a reading list of what you consider "divinely revealed" but I know of only one such volume. It is true that all divine truth has but one source and that each of us may approach that same truth but it would be very simplistic and false to believe that material mind discerns either reality or truth of the absolute or universal levels clearly, objectively, or completely......or "similarly" for that matter.

I cannot figure out your agenda here. For no critic or skeptic or debunker could deliver more innuendo and mumbo jumbo or throw more sand in the gear box than you have managed. You make the entire community seem trivial by associating the Revelation to every nut job delusion and misconception and false teaching you can conjur up...are you just googling "crazy religious concepts and fantasies" daily? You remind me of those temple folk who would attempt to ensnare the Master with riddles to "expose" Him by either agreement or disagreement to ensnare Him into refutation or endorsement of THEIR truth with no regard to the TRUTH at all. I hope you are, after all, just crazy uncle vinny, mentally bouncing off the walls of extreme opposition, looking for company to engage with no true point of view after all.....but mostly harmless, even engaging occasionally, between inanities. Any alternative would not be flattering.....or welcome. :roll:

Seriously, if you wish to actually discuss TUB content or concepts to learn what lies therein...all good. But please refrain from seeking proof or confirmations for a laundry list of nutty concepts.....none of which you appear to know any more about than you do about TUB. As I said in my very first post to you....you're not helping by the illusions, delusions, and fringe baggage you "link" TUB to willingly, repetively, and publicly. Wishing you the best in your wind mill quest....Peace.


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Hmm! :-$

Perhaps FanO is right!
Perhaps FanO HAS read a lot more than I have.
Perhaps FanO can enlighten the rest of us and quote that exact obscure passage in TUB
that equates bullying and ridiculing your brother with "doing the will of the Father."
Or perhaps FanO is one of those Ministering Spirits who can so accurately peer into the
hearts and minds of men to accurate assess their sincerity.

(316.6) 28:6.19 The real nature of any service, be it rendered by man or angel, is fully revealed in the faces of these secoraphic service indicators, the Sanctities of Service. The full analysis of the true and of the hidden motives is clearly shown. These angels are indeed the mind readers, heart searchers, and soul revealers of the universe. Mortals may employ words to conceal their thoughts, but these high seconaphim lay bare the deep motives of the human heart and of the angelic mind.


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Let's begin first with my prior apology...it was entirely appropriate due to my indignant anger displayed - prior to your claim afterward that you were a 32 year student and believer in TUB. Next, let's acknowledge that your tenure as student and your status as believer were your claim. Then we examine your claims, connections, affiliations, and questions in that reality....hmmmm. Something stinks here cousin, something indeed.

Now, I'm not angry...I just can't stop laughing at the absurdities of both your claims and your subsequent posts for you are obviously NOT a believer, or at least you should not be, due to your insignificant knowledge and understanding of any part of that which you claim to believe. Your distortions of plain english printed on 1000+ pages is clear to all who have read even 50 of them. I fear that your positions and questions reveal a sublimely rediculous and truly laughable lack of understanding of that which YOU CLAIM to be a long time student AND believer. Both claims are obvious misrepresentations (to be kind).

If you were a rookie, well all would be quite different and I would hold myself to a far different standard...but you are now fodder, of your own making, of challenge and intolerance....at least by me. Perhaps you would consider 5 beliefs either established by or confirmed by TUB? I will then add 5...then your turn again....and let's see if we can list 25 truths we believe together FROM TUB and no other sources.....should be easy to do. On the other side of that we can all have some serious truth sharing. Until then, I call your bluff.....and dispute your claims....and repeat my criticism of your positions listed:

UFOs
Alien abductions
Angels sexually assaulting humans to procreate super children
Heavenly or other worldly emergency interventions
Pet heaven
Edgar Cayce
Course in Miracles

"Now none of these in and of themselves sound particularly strange to TUB believers, we are frequented by those new readers and/or skeptics with one or two such preconceptions....but then they do not claim to be long time readers or believers in TUB either.... but you do. Your questions and statements both reveal you are really neither student nor believer..."

I'll leave it to others to measure my mean spiritedness.....it is true it's not polite to laugh at other's misfortune, but you are responsible for your own position here. Peace.


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Uhh . . . Let’s see. You didn’t answer my most puzzling query.

Perhaps FanO can enlighten the rest of us and quote that exact obscure passage in TUB
that equates bullying and ridiculing your brother with "doing the will of the Father."


Maybe you didn’t see that part?

Meanwhile, YES, I would like to start with at least ONE belief, and perhaps that would shed light on the puzzlement listed above.

1. I believe in the Fatherhood of God and the Brotherhood of Man.

(1859.11) 170:2.1 The Master made it clear that the kingdom of heaven must begin with, and be centered in, the dual concept of the truth of the fatherhood of God and the correlated fact of the brotherhood of man. The acceptance of such a teaching, Jesus declared, would liberate man from the age-long bondage of animal fear and at the same time enrich human living with the following endowments of the new life of spiritual liberty:
(1603.5) 142:7.4 Then the Master discoursed at some length on the earthly family as an illustration of the heavenly family, restating the two fundamental laws of living: the first commandment of love for the father, the head of the family, and the second commandment of mutual love among the children, to love your brother as yourself. And then he explained that such a quality of brotherly affection would invariably manifest itself in unselfish and loving social service.

If in fact, FanO, if you agree, then please tell me how you can reconcile those words above, particularly the statement “and the second commandment of mutual love among the children” with using terms like
“you are, after all, just crazy uncle vinny, mentally bouncing off the walls of extreme opposition”
“nutty concepts”
“Well...now that this fool has removed his mask to reveal....the fool beneath”
And reconciling that with “brotherly affection” so clearly asked for by Jesus?

FanO has a strong arm (a good intellect) and a mighty bow (the truth of the Urantia Book) but your choice of targets is way off. Why focus on slings and arrow at all? Why not use those gifts to spread some light and cheer? I suspect someone must have hurt you a long time ago and you’ve decided to take it out on me, because I know I’ve not said an unkind word to you. What a waste to have such a mastery or heavenly concepts and use it to belittle your brothers! And I can assure you – like it or not – that I AM your brother.


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Now I claim to be neither scholar nor saint and my indignation cousin is not directed at you, or it should not be - for I do not know nor judge you - but your claims of belief while simulteaneously slandering and misrepresenting that which YOU claim to believe is subject to indignation indeed:

(1103.1) 100:7.13 This man of Galilee was not a man of sorrows; he was a soul of gladness. Always was he saying, “Rejoice and be exceedingly glad.” But when duty required, he was willing to walk courageously through the “valley of the shadow of death.” He was gladsome but at the same time humble.

(1103.2) 100:7.14 His courage was equaled only by his patience. When pressed to act prematurely, he would only reply, “My hour has not yet come.” He was never in a hurry; his composure was sublime. But he was often indignant at evil, intolerant of sin. He was often mightily moved to resist that which was inimical to the welfare of his children on earth. But his indignation against sin never led to anger at the sinner.

You soil and sully that which I hold sacred and dear....and not by ignorance but by design I suspect. New readers and serious students both might give some credit or credance to your false claims of knowledge and belief BY YOUR CLAIMS of belief in the precious revelation and might transfer some modicum of credibilty to the slanderous falsehoods you state and imply. This is intolerable...here or anywhere you might find my ear and my voice to be when you support falsehoods and blasphemies by reference or inference to TUB.

As I said, I am not angry but I wil not be silenced here but by one....or by the many...but not by you or by embarasement of protecting Truth from slander. We are way beyond misunderstanding or disagreement here...be warned. Quote the Book to make your points AND ask your questions or .... DUCK! I am neither so composed or patient as my Master to be sure...I am but an ascending hilbilly with a sense of humor and well demonstrated tolerance to ignorance and seekers of all preconceptions and misconceptions. This site is a place for the seeker to find perspective from students and believers and while their comfort is paramount....your voice is no fruit for any of them...or it is tainted and poisened fruit by YOUR claims and YOUR content.

(1892.5) 173:2.8 And it was this genius of the Master for dealing with his adversaries that made them so afraid of him. They attempted no more questions that day; they retired to take further counsel among themselves. But the people were not slow to discern the dishonesty and insincerity in these questions asked by the Jewish rulers. Even the common folk could not fail to distinguish between the moral majesty of the Master and the designing hypocrisy of his enemies. But the cleansing of the temple had brought the Sadducees over to the side of the Pharisees in perfecting the plan to destroy Jesus. And the Sadducees now represented a majority of the Sanhedrin.

I'm no genius sir...but beware my sincerity and my passion...for I will show no meekness to your voice of deception and guile. :!:


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There you go again you wiley one....I purposely and repeatedly claimed myself to be "the fool"....not you. But you may be proving me wrong....deception is not to be tolerated....or loved either one. I wish YOU well but not your false claims or rediculous notions of that which could not be further from anything presented in TUB. Do you believe in the posts you have made here and online that aliens are abducting people...or angels are having sex with humans...or Cayce coauthored TUB....or pets go to heaven???? And what TUB quotes can you provide to defend such drivel?? Dangerous and heretical drivel? I'm still smiling cousin....laughing really....you? :roll:


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If my words generate such anger the nicest thing I can do is say no more.
Go in peace, FanO.


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Hello fanovan,

Please read my post at
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4286&p=50665&sid=f14949dc98b4d544854b5a053dff4675#p50665

it was primarily intended for your recent posts. It's true that UncleVinny has introduced some unusual ideas. The best responses would be reasonable ones, not ones attempting to belittle or embarrass -- please take the warning to heart.

Larry


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The "one" I mentioned above speaks....softly and wisely....it will be as you say. My lack of forbearance is not helpful or effective, apologies to you Larry for adding to your load Brother. Peace.


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Apologies to every reader and student of our beloved Revelation for my demonstration of mortal frailities of mind and spirit. I offer a few quotes, some favorites of mine, to further display my lack of judgement in my intolerance to another's perspective - regardless of content therein or my disagreement thereby - for certainly there is a better WAY. I know not how I can see so clearly the "mote" in my brother's eye when mine are so filled with "beams", eh? My "becoming" and my ascendent adventure have a loooonnnggggg road ahead. There is far more to be joyful about and hopeful for....Peace to All. :wink:


p1658:01 Each of the apostolic teachers taught his own view of the gospel of the kingdom. They made no effort to teach just alike; there was no standardized or dogmatic formulation of theologic doctrines. Though they all taught the same truth, each apostle presented his own personal interpretation of the Master's teaching. And Jesus upheld this presentation of the diversity of personal experience in the things of the kingdom, unfailingly harmonizing and co-ordinating these many and divergent views of the gospel at his weekly question hours.

p1591:6 141:5.1 One of the most eventful of all the evening conferences at Amathus, was the session having to do with the discussion of spiritual unity. James Zebedee had asked, "Master, how shall we learn to see alike and thereby enjoy more harmony among ourselves?" When Jesus heard this question, he was stirred within his spirit, so much so that he replied: "James, James, when did I teach you that you should all see alike? I have come into the world to proclaim spiritual liberty to the end that mortals may be empowered to live individual lives of originality and freedom before God. I do not desire that social harmony and fraternal peace shall be purchased by the sacrifice of free personality and spiritual originality. What I require of you, my apostles, is spirit unity—and that you can experience in the joy of your united dedication to the wholehearted doing of the will of my Father in heaven. You do not have to see alike or feel alike or even think alike in order spiritually to be alike. Spiritual unity is derived from the consciousness that each of you is indwelt, and increasingly dominated, by the spirit gift of the heavenly Father. Your apostolic harmony must grow out of the fact that the spirit hope of each of you is identical in origin, nature, and destiny.

1571.3) 140:3.16 “Your Father in heaven makes the sun to shine on the evil as well as upon the good; likewise he sends rain on the just and the unjust. You are the sons of God; even more, you are now the ambassadors of my Father’s kingdom. Be merciful, even as God is merciful, and in the eternal future of the kingdom you shall be perfect, even as your heavenly Father is perfect.

(1571.4) 140:3.17 “You are commissioned to save men, not to judge them. At the end of your earth life you will all expect mercy; therefore do I require of you during your mortal life that you show mercy to all of your brethren in the flesh. Make not the mistake of trying to pluck a mote out of your brother’s eye when there is a beam in your own eye. Having first cast the beam out of your own eye, you can the better see to cast the mote out of your brother’s eye.

(1571.5) 140:3.18 “Discern the truth clearly; live the righteous life fearlessly; and so shall you be my apostles and my Father’s ambassadors. You have heard it said: ‘If the blind lead the blind, they both shall fall into the pit.’ If you would guide others into the kingdom, you must yourselves walk in the clear light of living truth. In all the business of the kingdom I exhort you to show just judgment and keen wisdom. Present not that which is holy to dogs, neither cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample your gems under foot and turn to rend you.

(1571.6) 140:3.19 “I warn you against false prophets who will come to you in sheep’s clothing, while on the inside they are as ravening wolves. By their fruits you shall know them. Do men gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree brings forth good fruit, but the corrupt tree bears evil fruit. A good tree cannot yield evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bring forth good fruit is presently hewn down and cast into the fire. In gaining an entrance into the kingdom of heaven, it is the motive that counts. My Father looks into the hearts of men and judges by their inner longings and their sincere intentions.

p 42:07 Happiness ensues from the recognition of truth because it can be acted out; it can be lived. Disappointment and sorrow attend upon error because, not being a reality, it cannot be realized in experience. Divine truth is best known by its spiritual flavor.

56:10.13 The bestowal Spirit of Truth which invests the human minds of Urantia is unerringly responsive to truth — the living spirit relationship of all things and all beings as they are co-ordinated in the eternal ascent Godward.

p888:01 Truth is relative and expanding; it lives always in the present, achieving new expression in each generation of men--even in each human life.

(2060.6) 194:2.1 Jesus lived on earth and taught a gospel which redeemed man from the superstition that he was a child of the devil and elevated him to the dignity of a faith son of God. Jesus’ message, as he preached it and lived it in his day, was an effective solvent for man’s spiritual difficulties in that day of its statement. And now that he has personally left the world, he sends in his place his Spirit of Truth, who is designed to live in man and, for each new generation, to restate the Jesus message so that every new group of mortals to appear upon the face of the earth shall have a new and up-to-date version of the gospel, just such personal enlightenment and group guidance as will prove to be an effective solvent for man’s ever-new and varied spiritual difficulties.

(2060.7) 194:2.2 The first mission of this spirit is, of course, to foster and personalize truth, for it is the comprehension of truth that constitutes the highest form of human liberty. Next, it is the purpose of this spirit to destroy the believer’s feeling of orphanhood. Jesus having been among men, all believers would experience a sense of loneliness had not the Spirit of Truth come to dwell in men’s hearts.

(2061.1) 194:2.3 This bestowal of the Son’s spirit effectively prepared all normal men’s minds for the subsequent universal bestowal of the Father’s spirit (the Adjuster) upon all mankind. In a certain sense, this Spirit of Truth is the spirit of both the Universal Father and the Creator Son.

(2061.2) 194:2.4 Do not make the mistake of expecting to become strongly intellectually conscious of the outpoured Spirit of Truth. The spirit never creates a consciousness of himself, only a consciousness of Michael, the Son. From the beginning Jesus taught that the spirit would not speak of himself. The proof, therefore, of your fellowship with the Spirit of Truth is not to be found in your consciousness of this spirit but rather in your experience of enhanced fellowship with Michael.

(2061.3) 194:2.5 The spirit also came to help men recall and understand the words of the Master as well as to illuminate and reinterpret his life on earth.

(2061.4) 194:2.6 Next, the Spirit of Truth came to help the believer to witness to the realities of Jesus’ teachings and his life as he lived it in the flesh, and as he now again lives it anew and afresh in the individual believer of each passing generation of the spirit-filled sons of God.

(2061.5) 194:2.7 Thus it appears that the Spirit of Truth comes really to lead all believers into all truth, into the expanding knowledge of the experience of the living and growing spiritual consciousness of the reality of eternal and ascending sonship with God.


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