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lwatkins wrote:
It's fine to question, Caligastia. I'm not the holder any specific special knowledge... I'm a long-time student of the book and I've met and overcome doubts about its authenticity and origin. I'm presenting my own opinion based on what I believe to be true.

Thanks, Larry for being forthcoming and truthful as to your situation, however it is this which may be the issue for which I have addressed by query? Being a “long-time student of the book” is or has been your personal issue, having “met and overcome doubts”, where I commend you in your endeavor. It is this which makes you an individual and those experiences are unique to your faith and belief but, it also adds a zeal which cannot be transferred to new readers of the book, which makes this zeal appear as dominating your truth over others who may not have lived and experienced the same in order to achieve your understanding of what you consider as the truth (according to Larry). I’ve noticed that much of your narrations are not always accompanied by Urantia Book quotations, where even through you are a student of many years, much can be taken for granted when one voices personal opinion which might be interpreted differently by someone else.

lwatkins wrote:
Your first question, about your Thought Adjuster, has been linked to channeling by channelers who want to give added emphasis to their proclamations... that they have a direct line to God, since that's what the Thought Adjuster is, and therefore their words are meaningful and factual. Nowhere that I'm aware of in the teachings of TUB is there an indication that the conscious mind is aware of the Thought Adjuster's presence. Jesus didn't seem to be aware in any specific way -- he didn't talk to or converse with his Adjuster. The Adjuster was the conduit through which his spiritual life flowed as it is for us as well.

I’m having a little difficulty in putting your, above, narrative together because my first question was: “My query of Larry, is only as to his summation that a contributor to this forum is participating in "channeling" or stating an opinion, worded in such a way as to be insightful, or prophetic. Where, if the contribution is prophetic, than it cannot be justified without the passing of time.” However, based on what I’m reading is that you are thinking that I am referring to my Thought Adjuster, in that you used “about your Thought Adjuster”? Then the remaining narrative makes me assume that you are assessing that my “Thought Adjuster” is “linked to channeling by channelers” for the purpose to “emphasis” “their proclamations…” – by using “their”, I’m not sure if your referring to “Thought Adjuster” or “channelers”?
Whereas for the rest I present this UB quote, from Jesus:
Quote:
(1475.3) 133:4.10 To the traveler from Britain he said: “My brother, I perceive you are seeking for truth, and I suggest that the spirit of the Father of all truth may chance to dwell within you. Did you ever sincerely endeavor to talk with the spirit of your own soul? Such a thing is indeed difficult and seldom yields consciousness of success; but every honest attempt of the material mind to communicate with its indwelling spirit meets with certain success, notwithstanding that the majority of all such magnificent human experiences must long remain as superconscious registrations in the souls of such God-knowing mortals.”

Where one could assume that Jesus was able to “talk with the spirit” of His soul, or as indicated elsewhere, His Thought Adjuster, where after His Baptism, he would have been spiritually fused with His adjuster, but as mentioned above one would find this “magnificent human experience” in their “superconscious”, which is where I found mine. Why would Jesus mention this to “the traveler from Britain”, if He was not aware of having experienced this for Himself?

lwatkins wrote:
You've mentioned "being joined with the Thought Adjuster." We're mortals. We don't join with the Thought Adjuster since it's God and we're human; joining happens at fusion. We reap the benefits of the Adjuster's ministry if we pay attention to its leadings... it's a one-way street in that regard. We're ministered to in several other spiritual ways but spirit is far removed from our material selves in this first life.

Okay, I did mention “joined” but I did not say “fused”, there is a difference. What I said, or state was in part, in form of a question which, as follows: “how would you or those, who preach the fact of the Thought-Adjuster, who lives within as spirit, and if or when one has joined with their Thought-Adjuster,” would imply that one can “talk” to their “Thought Adjuster” as has been established in the UB as possible, although if one is not prepared, it can be detrimental to their mental well being, nevertheless, the previous UB quote, quoting Jesus, would indicate that it is possible for mortals. It is also noted numerous times in the UB of becoming or attaining “God-consciousness” which would imply and is stated as being aware of your Thought Adjuster. However, the following quote, may confirm that mortals can know God.
Quote:
(2097.2) 196:3.34 The great challenge to modern man is to achieve better communication with the divine Monitor that dwells within the human mind. Man’s greatest adventure in the flesh consists in the well-balanced and sane effort to advance the borders of self-consciousness out through the dim realms of embryonic soulconsciousness in a wholehearted effort to reach the borderland of spirit-consciousness — contact with the divine presence. Such an experience constitutes God-consciousness, an experience mightily confirmative of the pre-existent truth of the religious experience of knowing God. Such spirit-consciousness is the equivalent of the knowledge of the actuality of sonship with God. Otherwise, the assurance of sonship is the experience of faith.

Sometimes faith is not enough, but to believe that something is possible, helps remove doubt.

lwatkins wrote:
There's no correlation between the Thought Adjuster and the other forms of spirit ministry and channeling. One's real, the other is a figment of human imagination and wishful thinking. Those figments and wishful thoughts can be of great benefit to the one in which they originate but they'd be unreal and misleading to someone else.

I’m not sure why, it seems, that you think that “channeling” has anything to do with the “thought adjuster” or that I might think that way? What I’ve stated before, it seems that you are the one who keeps bring up the word “channeling” where it seems that anyone who might have a personal insight into something is “channeling”, also please look up the word “channeling” in the dictionary. I previously presented a link imbedded in the word “channeling” and sighted the number (2) definition.

lwatkins wrote:
Regarding credentials... I'm no authority; you're free to accept or reject my comments. Nearly 50 years ago, before I found TUB, I had extensive mental training where I learned about the different levels of mind and brain activity, learned meditation techniques, learned to channel, learned to gather information at a distance, learned remote viewing. These were all interesting at the time; after accepting the teachings of TUB that all became just more grist for the mill; what I relate comes not only from trying to present persuasive ideas but from experience as well. But my experience is valuable really only to me and not necessarily to anyone else. Since I'm a moderator on this board I feel justified in disagreeing with concepts that I believe run counter to my understanding of UB teachings or my own experience.

As mentioned before, you are entitled to your opinion and I’m sure it is welcome but, as “a moderator” on this forum, with the ability to remove or sensor anyone, based on their experience, as opinion, constitutes as an authority who will sanction anyone who does not believe or see things exactly as they do, is not presenting “persuasive ideas”. By attempting to persuade others also reflects on the general group for which a moderator has received their authority.
lwatkins wrote:
The comments that I objected to above came across in the manner channeled material does. If we were more lax here we'd have any number of self-professed prophets, seers and channelers. It's been our policy that if someone prophesizes they either have to retract their pronouncements publically or else they'll have to agree to make a public statement apologizing for their misguidance once the time for the prophecy has come and gone. Prophets are almost always channelers.

It would seem that it is your definition of what the word “channeling” means, based on this topic and another. I suggest that you actually look up the word and look at all the various meanings and definitions which are attached. And, to state that “Phophets are almost always channelers” means that you are the authority by which this forum rules. All hail Larry! Please, tell me that this is not what you really think to be true?

lwatkins wrote:
No, I don't follow anyone's orders. If my posts are off base I'm corrected by one of the other moderators or by other members of the discussion board.

You mentioned conveying messages from spirit guides. That's a New Age concept; it's not supported by the teachings of TUB. We have guardian angels -- they're not spirit guides and they seldom talk to any one of us. Hypothetical spirit guides are associated with channeling and other psychic activities.

Please, that which contained “spirit guides” was in quotation marks and came straight from the online dictionary, which I sited. And there was no mention of “New Age” on that web page, which inferred anything to do with “spirit guides” other than that definition indicated that “channeling” is "(2) the practice of professedly entering a meditative or trancelike state in order to convey messages from a spiritual guide." Did you open the link to that page?
lwatkins wrote:
The Urantia Book is not a holy object any more than the Bible is. They're both examples of inspired thoughts providing meaningful and trustworthy guidance for our spiritual development. They provide the knowledge that we can choose to act upon in our daily lives to enhance personal spiritual growth.

And yes, TUB uses the word channel but it has no correlation with New Age thought regarding psychic activities of the mind.

Once again, you are the one who is associating the word “channel” or channeling” with “New Age thought” or “psychic activities”, not I, where are you getting the impression that I also think this, did you bother to ask me if this is my impression or did you just assume? And by indicating that the Bible and the UB “provide the knowledge that we can choose to act”, which puts the UB in the same league as the Bible, where even though you may not think that the Bible is “Holy” there are many who do.

Larry, it is one thing to state your opinion, which you are entitled, but to do this as an administrator or moderator, reflects on person associated with the forum, and for some might also instill fear to go against what you state is only your opinion. That’s my main argument. There should be no reason for admin to not have two separate ID’s on this forum, one for personal opinion and the other for administrative functions, as per the rules of the forum.

Thank you in advance for your honest responses.


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You're welcome for my honest response. I have no intention of arguing; I've related my positions. Someone will have the responsibility to moderate a discussion board. That means someone is responsible for keeping topics on track, seeing that posters follow the posting guidelines, seeing that members remain civil, seeing that we remain focused on the teachings of The Urantia Book and even responsible for excluding members who rebel against those kinds of authority. It's really not a democracy -- the site belongs to Truthbook.com and posting is a privilege extended to those who are able to follow basic rules. I'm that someone for the most part who has that responsibility here and I've been in this position for about 15 years now. We try to remain flexible and to provide a place for new members to feel welcome and to learn from more experienced readers and for the most part I think we're quite successful. I don't feel compelled to frequently express my ideas but I will if the topic especially appeals to me or if I see a problem that wants to be addressed or to offer an answer to a question posed.

As for addressing problems privately -- I've done that in the past and choose not to do it now. Posts are public. If they're unsuitable I feel they deserve to be addressed in public so that there's no behind the scenes manipulation going on and so that everyone can benefit from the exchange. Disagreements can be teaching opportunities.

Best wishes,
Larry


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Cal - yes those are some of the quotes I had in mind. There are many more by a key word search for "revelation" to provide further illumination on this method of truth disbursement and reality alignment. Here's a link to the Foundation's search results:

http://www.urantia.org/search/book_search/revelation

And here's more on "epochal" revelation specifically:

(1006.2) 92:3.5 Only two influences can modify and uplift the dogmas of natural religion: the pressure of the slowly advancing mores and the periodic illumination of epochal revelation. And it is not strange that progress was slow; in ancient days, to be progressive or inventive meant to be killed as a sorcerer. The cult advances slowly in generation epochs and agelong cycles. But it does move forward. Evolutionary belief in ghosts laid the foundation for a philosophy of revealed religion which will eventually destroy the superstition of its origin.

(1007.4) 92:4.4 There have been many events of religious revelation but only five of epochal significance. These were as follows:

(1007.5) 92:4.5 1. The Dalamatian teachings. The true concept of the First Source and Center was first promulgated on Urantia by the one hundred corporeal members of Prince Caligastia’s staff. This expanding revelation of Deity went on for more than three hundred thousand years until it was suddenly terminated by the planetary secession and the disruption of the teaching regime. Except for the work of Van, the influence of the Dalamatian revelation was practically lost to the whole world. Even the Nodites had forgotten this truth by the time of Adam’s arrival. Of all who received the teachings of the one hundred, the red men held them longest, but the idea of the Great Spirit was but a hazy concept in Amerindian religion when contact with Christianity greatly clarified and strengthened it.

(1007.6) 92:4.6 2. The Edenic teachings. Adam and Eve again portrayed the concept of the Father of all to the evolutionary peoples. The disruption of the first Eden halted the course of the Adamic revelation before it had ever fully started. But the aborted teachings of Adam were carried on by the Sethite priests, and some of these truths have never been entirely lost to the world. The entire trend of Levantine religious evolution was modified by the teachings of the Sethites. But by 2500 B.C. mankind had largely lost sight of the revelation sponsored in the days of Eden.

(1007.7) 92:4.7 3. Melchizedek of Salem. This emergency Son of Nebadon inaugurated the third revelation of truth on Urantia. The cardinal precepts of his teachings were trust and faith. He taught trust in the omnipotent beneficence of God and proclaimed that faith was the act by which men earned God’s favor. His teachings gradually commingled with the beliefs and practices of various evolutionary religions and finally developed into those theologic systems present on Urantia at the opening of the first millennium after Christ.

(1008.1) 92:4.8 4. Jesus of Nazareth. Christ Michael presented for the fourth time to Urantia the concept of God as the Universal Father, and this teaching has generally persisted ever since. The essence of his teaching was love and service, the loving worship which a creature son voluntarily gives in recognition of, and response to, the loving ministry of God his Father; the freewill service which such creature sons bestow upon their brethren in the joyous realization that in this service they are likewise serving God the Father.

(1008.2) 92:4.9 5. The Urantia Papers. The papers, of which this is one, constitute the most recent presentation of truth to the mortals of Urantia. These papers differ from all previous revelations, for they are not the work of a single universe personality but a composite presentation by many beings. But no revelation short of the attainment of the Universal Father can ever be complete. All other celestial ministrations are no more than partial, transient, and practically adapted to local conditions in time and space. While such admissions as this may possibly detract from the immediate force and authority of all revelations, the time has arrived on Urantia when it is advisable to make such frank statements, even at the risk of weakening the future influence and authority of this, the most recent of the revelations of truth to the mortal races of Urantia.

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lwatkins wrote:
Sela,

You are posting channeled material as if it were fact. Channeled material can sound positive, uplifting, meaningful... but it's the product of the human subconscious and is not based in fact. We don't permit channeled material on this discussion board -- there are other places where one can find all of that they may want. We focus on the teachings of The Urantia Book which does not condone channeling so please, no more.

Larry


You are the elder of this group and you have the permission to remove this topic as you see fit. I will consider how my remarks may have been channelled, possibly. I assert that I would not post a view that I do not authentically write or believe in, but this is in your own judgmen.

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From those who understand the limitations of material/mortal/immature mind, we are advised to remain quite humble when contemplating (or presenting) the thoughts we may experience (regardless of their source or potential truth):

(103.3) 9:5.5 Because the Third Person is the source of mind, do not presume to reckon that all phenomena of mind are divine. Human intellect is rooted in the material origin of the animal races. Universe intelligence is no more a true revelation of God who is mind than is physical nature a true revelation of the beauty and harmony of Paradise. Perfection is in nature, but nature is not perfect. The Conjoint Creator is the source of mind, but mind is not the Conjoint Creator.

(103.4) 9:5.6 Mind, on Urantia, is a compromise between the essence of thought perfection and the evolving mentality of your immature human nature. The plan for your intellectual evolution is, indeed, one of sublime perfection, but you are far short of that divine goal as you function in the tabernacles of the flesh. Mind is truly of divine origin, and it does have a divine destiny, but your mortal minds are not yet of divine dignity.

(103.5) 9:5.7 Too often, all too often, you mar your minds by insincerity and sear them with unrighteousness; you subject them to animal fear and distort them by useless anxiety. Therefore, though the source of mind is divine, mind as you know it on your world of ascension can hardly become the object of great admiration, much less of adoration or worship. The contemplation of the immature and inactive human intellect should lead only to reactions of humility.

Sela - I would recommend you consider phrasing your thoughts as personal reflections or realizations of truth and cease your utilization of pronouncement and declaration and presumption of authority or the pretense of a messenger to others. This demonstrates more a lack of humility and caring than it does any form of sharing your personal experience or conviction. Your content is but one aspect, and the least offensive, of the ineffectiveness of your presentations to the audience here at TruthBook. Some related quotes from the UB itself would be welcomed as well. Such an adjustment would make dialogue and discovery much easier and fruitful in my opinion. Just sayin'........ Peace.

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"Stephen Sela has demonstrated more a lack of humility and caring than it does any form of sharing your personal experience or conviction. Your content is but one aspect, and the least offensive, of the ineffectiveness of your presentations to the audience here at TruthBook. "



I do not intend to be close-minded! You are not only saying that I have misrepresented the whole truth as my own partial intellect, but that I have given these words onto an unreceptive audience! You too are repremanded, and let the folly of my own pride befall me if there is any!

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It's Stephen then? Hello Stephen, Brad here. I have not said you are closed minded and neither have I claimed you have misrepresented anything. But naturally, neither of us have access to or the capacity for "the whole truth" about anything. And I do not speak for or REPRESENT the audience here...I merely offered a suggestion which might serve to increase the effectiveness of communication...both the giving and the receiving side of communication.

May we find the means to mend any fences needing such and a bridge to understanding and sharing our discovery of truth, beauty, and goodness. Best wishes.

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