A forum for thought provoking questions & answers of a spiritual nature or as pertaining to the Urantia Papers.
Mon May 14, 2012 9:39 pm +0000
I know that gay are loved by God as mush as straight sexual oriented person, so it is not about them, it's about their sex orientation.
Any perspective accepted, your own or/and TUB.
Thank you very much.
Mon May 14, 2012 10:12 pm +0000
Hey Elang. I would say that Jesus loved man and women probably more than any gay or straight person has loved their significant other, so perhaps that may give you some perspective. If loving the same sex is a sin than Jesus was the gayest human being on the planet. The only difference between us and Jesus is that we have a sexual desire attached to our love. But this will not always be so, we will not always have sexual desire, etleast not in the next world. So I wouldnt worry about what this all means.
I would say though though that the u.b mentions how the opposite sex need each other to solve problems. So a mans perspective is limited, and a womens is limited as well so we will have join together in a loving family way to understand universe reality. But this is not a sexual approach so I wouldnt worry to much. I hope this helps
Tue May 15, 2012 7:59 am +0000
boomshuka thank you for your reply.
Yes, this has bothering me for long time, this question resurfaced after the incident in Yogyakarta with Irshad Manji the Islamic reformist.
I see nothing wrong with love, with same sex or opposite. And I see nothing wrong with relying on same sex as parner of life.
even if it's mean become incomplete family.
Yes, I agree with you it is not love that seems to be the problem, it's the lust, and this also applied for straight relationship.
Hmph, I dont know, I just get the notion to understand this better..
Thanks boomshuka, and if there is anyone here have other opinion I appreciate it.
Tue May 15, 2012 1:45 pm +0000
Last edited by As-Above-So-Below
on Fri May 10, 2013 3:22 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.
Wed May 16, 2012 9:00 am +0000
First....agree completely with Boom...NO mortal or temporal choices prevent God's love and mercy. Those choices may interfere with our progress or ability to RECEIVE mercy but I hardly think sexual orientation rises to such an obstacle in any way.
Sexual orientation and its social acceptence/rejection is so cultural....and many cultures embraced sexual behaviors that many other cultures find vulgar or worse...which is right? I wouldn't know. But I have known and been friends with many gays and lesbians - friends, co-workers, bosses, employees of mine, and encounters with total strangers - and they each and all defy stereotyping as certainly as those based on race, religion, male/female, et al. So forget any "class"ification you may embrace - it is false.
But this topic leads to some interesting issues. For one, the male/female perspectives and strengths Boom presented which endure throughout the universe experience and personalities is NOT sexual, as Boom says. Every mortal I have met has both effiminate and masculine qualities in varying degrees of each within each. I find this mysterious and interesting. People who do not know gays, tend to think they are feminine and while some certainly are (yes, I've known ravers and queens), this is not accurate. In many gay couples, one tends to be more feminate and the other more masculine (lesbians are the same). Straight couples are the same if perceived accurately while ignoring the bio equipment. Every gay couple I have known share this "balance" of perception and approach with their straight counterparts. So, within the universe of personalities and ascenders, as so-called male/female, aren't each some of both? Or not?
My wife believes that all of us are born as sensual pleasure seekers....BI-sexual or ANY-sexual or UNI-sexual. And we discover our orientation as we discover ourselves and so long as the motive is sharing and caring, then one union is as potentially effective and personally rewarding as any other. Something for more knowledgeable and educated professionals to discuss perhaps. It seems unlikely that gays and lesbians are strictly a Urantian phemonenon.
Wed May 16, 2012 6:36 pm +0000
Thank you fanofVan for your opinion, Yes I agree with you and booms, it is just that I do not know how to speak my mind, you, booms other people here made it clear to me. I also have lesbian friend which way I see her, it just doesn't make sense for those stereotyping, however it's persist. Maybe this is the result of being raised in strict religion dogma.
Thank you As-Above-So-Below. Really help me a lot about others opinion and TUB teaching even it did not say about these matter specifically.
It is really widen my mind, and I begin to see that this is nothing to worry about.
I should share this with my friends.
Last edited by Elang
on Wed May 16, 2012 7:32 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.
Wed May 16, 2012 7:03 pm +0000
And as for their sexual orientation specifically, I should ask them myself and find some book about it.
At least now I get the picture
If anyone want to add, always appreciated.
Wed May 16, 2012 8:21 pm +0000
I would say this... The UB is clear about stating that a lot of folks who have addenda’s (on both the left or the right) would be disappointed if Jesus were to appear today.
His EXCLUSIVE mission was to show the way the Father in Heaven. He did not have a lot of time to spend pointing out if this or that personal/social system was better than another.
It fell to his followers and the followers of his followers to interpret his words to fit their own cultural mores, a trend which has not diminished in 2000 years!
When I lived in Hawaii, I shared a home with a Gay man. He was kind, honest and a real good person. That is about the nicest thing you could say about any human being.
Sadly, I was young and stupid. It took 40 years before I could really see his goodness behind my own mask of prejudices.
So in retrospect of all that, I would try not to get too hung up over the straight/gay thing, at least with respect to God. A little thing like orientation is not gonna affect your destiny where it really matters, in the Universe, beyond this short but intense life.
Thu May 17, 2012 5:54 pm +0000
Elang - Don't know your knowledge with The Urantia Book but there will come a time when our world will be blessed with examples and leadership and knowledge of the Universe Ideals and Truths. I have no idea what sexual habits or norms might be on a planet settled in "Light and Life". But until then, we are left as faith children and builders of civilization to improve ourselves and build a better world and tomorrow for that time to come. Love for one another is the Will of God in that effort. That leaves no room for the judgemental discrimination against any of our fellows for their differences one from another - personally or institutionally. We progress, one step and heart at a time. Welcome to our fellowship. Peace.
Fri May 18, 2012 1:05 pm +0000
for sharing your experience,
...before I could really see his goodness behind my own mask of prejudices.
yes, I also experienced that on different matter, still regret about it
. yes you were right, we need to wait for that time to come to satisfy all our curiosity.
For now all I can do is take my curiosity in real life experience. Last night I meet and chat with my friend. Before this I'm always afraid to ask anything about her sexual orientation, don't know why. But thankfully she is very open. And thanks fanofVan and all people here for welcoming me. People here and TUB really erase those cultural prejudise in me, truly enlighten my mind.
Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:40 pm +0000
My take on it is that as you ascend through the Mansion Worlds that matters of the flesh become less and less important.
Yet, there seems to be a compensatory mechanism at work on Mansion World Number one, where:
(516.1) 45:6.3 On the seven mansion worlds ascending mortals are afforded ample opportunities for compensating any and all experiential deprivations suffered on their worlds of origin, whether due to inheritance, environment, or unfortunate premature termination of the career in the flesh. This is in every sense true except in the mortal sex life and its attendant adjustments. Thousands of mortals reach the mansion worlds without having benefited particularly from the disciplines derived from fairly average sex relations on their native spheres. The mansion world experience can provide little opportunity for compensating these very personal deprivations. Sex experience in a physical sense is past for these ascenders, but in close association with the Material Sons and Daughters, both individually and as members of their families, these sex-deficient mortals are enabled to compensate the social, intellectual, emotional, and spiritual aspects of their deficiency. Thus are all those humans whom circumstances or bad judgment deprived of the benefits of advantageous sex association on the evolutionary worlds, here on the system capitals afforded full opportunity to acquire these essential mortal experiences in close and loving association with the supernal Adamic sex creatures of permanent residence on the system capitals.
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