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rich.sachs wrote:
really it all starts from paradise this time but never before or after, how do you explain the beginning then? this is the first time the universal father has started all of creation, then he would have an origin. how did he come to his origin before starting all of creation?
Time started when subinfinite time-space reality (all of creation) started. Time is a finite concept; an artefact of our "partial, relative, and shadowy" perception and comprehension of reality. Many "simultaneous events of eternity" somehow manifest in our limited finite reality as "sequential transactions".

God undoubtedly has a perfect sense of all time, but according to TUB he himself is a (timeless) "nonbeginning, nonending reality", without an origin or cause..
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0:3.20 REALITY, as comprehended by finite beings, is partial, relative, and shadowy. The maximum Deity reality fully comprehensible by evolutionary finite creatures is embraced within the Supreme Being. Nevertheless there are antecedent and eternal realities, superfinite realities, which are ancestral to this Supreme Deity of evolutionary time- space creatures. In attempting to portray the origin and nature of universal reality, we are forced to employ the technique of time-space reasoning in order to reach the level of the finite mind. Therefore must many of the simultaneous events of eternity be presented as sequential transactions.

0:3.23 The concept of the I AM is a philosophic concession which we make to the time-bound, space- fettered, finite mind of man, to the impossibility of creature comprehension of eternity existences—nonbeginning, nonending realities and relationships. To the time-space creature, all things must have a beginning save only the ONE UNCAUSED—the primeval cause of causes. Therefore do we conceptualize this philosophic value-level as the I AM, at the same time instructing all creatures that the Eternal Son and the Infinite Spirit are coeternal with the I AM; in other words, that there never was a time when the I AM was not the Father of the Son and, with him, of the Spirit.

0:3.25 Much of the confusion of all orders of beings, high and low, in their efforts to discover the Father- Infinite, is inherent in their limitations of comprehension. The absolute primacy of the Universal Father is not apparent on subinfinite levels; therefore is it probable that only the Eternal Son and the Infinite Spirit truly know the Father as an infinity; to all other personalities such a concept represents the exercise of faith.


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Rich God exists in the entire circle of eternity. He is the endless elipse. Picture an elipse that goes into infinity, that is just how amazing god is, he is endless in character and in being. It seems impossible to picture a being like this, but we if we remember that a spark of this infinity is in our minds that perhaps we can make some sense of it.

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you said
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If you're going to continue to post prolifically then please spend a bit more time understanding the questions and the answers as they are provided in the book -- that's the reason we're here and not to conjecture on irrelevant issues.


so i dropped the subject. i would say something here about religion should be balanced by humor but i won't.

lwatkins wrote:
Rich,
Your last post here is total nonsense and has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of this thread, which you started and named "it's the end of the world as we know it." You've commented instead on the use of the word prolific rather than on the criticism that your discussion had wandered away from Urantia book teachings. If you wish to continue to post here, no more nonsense.

Larry


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i would not call myself a prolific writer on here but tub does use the word for other things. 95:5.7 This young teacher-king was a prolific writer, being author of the exposition entitled “The One God,” a book of thirty-one chapters, which the priests, when returned to power, utterly destroyed.

As-Above-So-Below wrote:
pro•lif•ic - adjective
1. producing offspring, young, fruit, etc., abundantly; highly fruitful: a prolific pear tree.
2. producing in large quantities or with great frequency; highly productive: a prolific writer.
3. profusely productive or fruitful (often followed by in or of ): a bequest prolific of litigations.
4. characterized by abundant production: a prolific year for tomatoes.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_or ... some_count


In the URL listed above, find the following in the table provided –
Adders-tongue - ophioglossum, reticulatum –

This specific prolific fern family, as described below contains “the highest chromosome count of any known living organism”.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophioglossum

Ophioglossum has the highest chromosome count of any known living organism, with 1,262 chromosomes. In comparison, most species have far fewer chromosomes (e.g. humans have 46).

So why would the UB make specific mention of “Fern” and if you haven’t been paying attention to what is in the UB you are all lost in its religious mask, and science is not your forte’, although there is much to learn there as well. I have found an entire mapping of the function of the human brain and its association to the body and hormonal system as a complete package to medicine and understanding human diseases which have been traced back to the so-called-beginning of time. The first documented endocrine issue listed is acromegaly in the bibles reference to David and Goliath, however the UB has posted a correction to what was originally translated in the Bible. I have made mention of this on another forum but I’m sure that it went unnoticed.

“A one eyed person in a blind world is looked upon as a God”

You have no idea of what is in the UB, and how to use it, and personally I’m not sure that any of you are worthy of its knowledge! So quite squabbling about all the little crap and maybe we can get down to business, or not, it up to you-all.

The title of this subject "it's the end of the world as we know it" is in reference that we have played out what needed to be played out in the theater of life and that everything beyond this point is changeable and new known only to the future.[/quote]


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Rich --
Once again you're on the verge of losing your posting privileges. One more nonsense or self-aggrandizing post and your account will be permanently deactivated.

Larry


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You have no idea of what is in the UB, and how to use it, and personally I’m not sure that any of you are worthy of its knowledge!

The above ad-hominem attack has put As-Above-So-Below on the short-list as well.


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As-Above-So-Below and/or rich.sachs wrote:
… The title of this subject "it's the end of the world as we know it" is in reference that we have played out what needed to be played out in the theater of life and that everything beyond this point is changeable and new known only to the future.
Can you please explain how this relates to The Urantia Book teachings?


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As-Above-So-Below wrote:
... When I see or hear specific information, I immediately access similar events or knowledge that may correlate with previous experienced memories. ...
Well, that’s just the way our brains work.. :)

As-Above-So-Below wrote:
... Now, since God actually has all possible experiences throughout eternity or creates time in relation to multiple realities, the statement in question, is irrelevant in God’s point of view because it already happened or will occur based on one’s perception of their reality. So everything can change even what we think is fact or truth.
Okay, but (again) how does this relate to TUB?


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Allow me to humbly disagree with God knows "everything" or God "is" everything....as that would not include God The Supreme would it? For even God has created His own ability to "experience" what occurs in "time and space" and by the free will of His creation, vicariously and personally and in its aggregate, FOREVER. Now I heartily agree I am barely literate and hardly capable of carrying on civilized conversation (not all can reach such glorious heights of intelligencia as others), but The Supreme is an easily understood presentation, to me, of why God is NOT bored and does NOT "know" everthing, exactly, since He is actually EXPERIENCING His creation through the process and evolution within time and space. Is it what the Book says that's important? Or what the Book does to those who read it? For it says many different things to every reader and does so every time you reread what's already been read before. One of the most amazing things about The Master, especially demonstrated by His parables and also echoed in TUB - the stupid can find meaning, the simple can find grace and comfort, the educated can ponder deeper meanings by allegory or simile, and the well developed and critical mind can discover values and relationships unrevealed or considered prior. But the sanctimonious and pious find nothing, not even what the stupid can find. IQ is much like money....it's as much of an obstacle or burden as it is an asset and requires great discipline to not lose your soul over it.


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Men as described in the u.b are time and space creatures. You cannot know the future events of a human because we do not exist in eternity. We do not live in the future. God lives in the past, present and future all at once. Its hard to imagine this but that is how I understand it from reading the u.b.

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Meant no disrespect for any on the comprehension spectrum I described using simple, stupid, educated, or critical thinking as spectrum points. Only that truth, if and when presented well (as in the parables and in TUB), appeals to and speaks to and changes all minds on that spectrum...in different ways and with different results and continues to engage and enlighten each mind with every re-reading due to a far more marvelous skill with words and meanings than I understand. I come from very humble origins, material survival being a daily challenge, but faith and love brought contentment, hope, and appreciation regardless of our various comprehension levels - I have only empathy for us all, especially we who seek truth and God's will. We all have obstacles in our search - I meant only that greater intelligence does not result in greater understanding or appreciation of truth and, as many other agents, can become more obstacle than facilitator. Any self delusion of personal superiority, ego, is another obstacle to spiritual progress - there are many but truly they all reside within mind, but our comprehension spectrum point is NOT any such obstacle EXCEPT when intelligence prevents or cannot find love, peace, and understanding or leads to pride and superiority. I was raised to have the same respect for all God's children - to not look up to high stationed wealth or power or IQ or physical beauty and never look down on those with even less than I - the poor, simple, uneducated, defomed, whatever.

Back to topic - the "end" of the world as we know it. Speculation beyond the complexities presented in TUB seems like a reach, as though there's not enough to digest or give us wonder already. But there is no provision for any "end" to creationism itself; the process in motion must be perpetual if it is to be eternal. And as the quotes provided above show, God is not complete - by His own choosing and design (being powerful enough and perfect enough and complete enough to self elect experiencing, completing, and perfecting as His own reality - go ahead and bend your mind around that conundrum). The process of perfecting is unlikely to result in some static state of perfect"ion"....for then what was the point of ANY perfecting? When will perfecting and creating end? NEVER, IMO. Time and space will change for us or our perspective of it will, progressively, until we are "outside" of it only by finaliter fusion. But that end of time is not the end of time, it is only OUR end of time, now that we have become timeless like Him who created us and calls to us...Come home. Only then, will we "circumvent" time and space. But this potential destiny is the end of nothing so much as the beginning of everything.


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