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‎23:1.2 Notwithstanding that these messengers are existent from the near times of eternity, they are all aware of a beginning of selfhood. They are conscious of time, being the first of the creation of the Infinite Spirit to possess such a time consciousness. They are the first-born creatures of the Infinite Spirit to be personalized in time and spiritualized in space.

the timelessness and newness of every moment for time does not actually exist.

0:1.13 The absolute level is beginningless, endless, timeless, and spaceless. For example: On Paradise, time and space are nonexistent; the time-space status of Paradise is absolute.

so what does timelessness really mean? 14:1.12 You have unwittingly read the truth when your eyes rested on the statement “A day is as a thousand years with God, as but a watch in the night.” One Paradise-Havona day is just seven minutes, three and one-eighth seconds less than one thousand years of the present Urantia leap-year calendar.

time exists but it doesn't exist. to be or not to be, is that the question? when all of creation is settled in light and life does it disappear and start over again? is that why there's no records on paradise prior to the creation of the eternal son and paradise?

18:3.4 The Ancients of Days were all trinitized at the same time. They represent the beginning of the personality records of the universe of universes, hence their name — Ancients of Days. When you reach Paradise and search the written records of the beginning of things, you will find that the first entry appearing in the personality section is the recital of the trinitization of these twenty-one Ancients of Days.

13:0.2 These three seven-world circuits of the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are spheres of unexcelled grandeur and unimagined glory. Even their material or physical construction is of an order unrevealed to you. Each circuit is diverse in material, and each world of each circuit is different excepting the seven worlds of the Son, which are alike in physical constitution. All twenty-one are enormous spheres, and each group of seven is differently eternalized. As far as we know they have always been; like Paradise they are eternal. There exists neither record nor tradition of their origin.

11:0.2 The material beauty of Paradise consists in the magnificence of its physical perfection; the grandeur of the Isle of God is exhibited in the superb intellectual accomplishments and mind development of its inhabitants; the glory of the central Isle is shown forth in the infinite endowment of divine spirit personality — the light of life. But the depths of the spiritual beauty and the wonders of this magnificent ensemble are utterly beyond the comprehension of the finite mind of material creatures. The glory and spiritual splendor of the divine abode are impossible of mortal comprehension. And Paradise is from eternity; there are neither records nor traditions respecting the origin of this nuclear Isle of Light and Life.

0:3.22 In this original transaction the theoretical I AM achieved the realization of personality by becoming the Eternal Father of the Original Son simultaneously with becoming the Eternal Source of the Isle of Paradise. Coexistent with the differentiation of the Son from the Father, and in the presence of Paradise, there appeared the person of the Infinite Spirit and the central universe of Havona. With the appearance of coexistent personal Deity, the Eternal Son and the Infinite Spirit, the Father escaped, as a personality, from otherwise inevitable diffusion throughout the potential of Total Deity. Thenceforth it is only in Trinity association with his two Deity equals that the Father fills all Deity potential, while increasingly experiential Deity is being actualized on the divinity levels of Supremacy, Ultimacy, and Absoluteness.

11:9.3 In the eternity of the past, when the Universal Father gave infinite personality expression of his spirit self in the being of the Eternal Son, simultaneously he revealed the infinity potential of his nonpersonal self as Paradise. Nonpersonal and nonspiritual Paradise appears to have been the inevitable repercussion to the Father’s will and act which eternalized the Original Son. Thus did the Father project reality in two actual phases — the personal and the nonpersonal, the spiritual and the nonspiritual. The tension between them, in the face of will to action by the Father and the Son, gave existence to the Conjoint Actor and the central universe of material worlds and spiritual beings.

so the universal father doesn't know his origin or how it all ends? i don't think so.

3:4.2 The creation of every new universe calls for a new adjustment of gravity; but even if creation should continue indefinitely, eternally, even to infinity, so that eventually the material creation would exist without limitations, still the power of control and co-ordination reposing in the Isle of Paradise would be found equal to, and adequate for, the mastery, control, and co-ordination of such an infinite universe. And subsequent to this bestowal of limitless force and power upon a boundless universe, the Infinite would still be surcharged with the same degree of force and energy; the Unqualified Absolute would still be undiminished; God would still possess the same infinite potential, just as if force, energy, and power had never been poured forth for the endowment of universe upon universe.

so does creation just stretch to infinity or does it disappear and start over at some point? they say "even if," not when creation continues into eternity.


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rich.sachs wrote:


so the universal father doesn't know his origin or how it all ends? i don't think so.

3:4.2 The creation of every new universe calls for a new adjustment of gravity; but even if creation should continue indefinitely, eternally, even to infinity, so that eventually the material creation would exist without limitations, still the power of control and co-ordination reposing in the Isle of Paradise would be found equal to, and adequate for, the mastery, control, and co-ordination of such an infinite universe. And subsequent to this bestowal of limitless force and power upon a boundless universe, the Infinite would still be surcharged with the same degree of force and energy; the Unqualified Absolute would still be undiminished; God would still possess the same infinite potential, just as if force, energy, and power had never been poured forth for the endowment of universe upon universe.

so does creation just stretch to infinity or does it disappear and start over at some point? they say "even if," not when creation continues into eternity.
The Universal Father can’t know his own origin because he is infinite and eternal which means he has no origin or beginning or end..

Your quotes from TUB indicate that all subinfinite creation (including the central universe of material worlds and spiritual beings) has a beginning, but not necessarily an end. In fact, the revelators suggest that it seems entirely possible for all of creation to continue indefinitely "so that eventually the material creation would exist without limitations." If that’s possible, then why should it disappear and start all over at some point?

The revelators themselves may not know the answer. But they state as a fact that "God would still possess the same infinite potential, just as if force, energy, and power had never been poured forth for the endowment of universe upon universe." So why would God at some point end it all?


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so does creation just stretch to infinity or does it disappear and start over at some point? they say "even if," not when creation continues into eternity.


Goes onto Infinity within god. :)

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i would actually agree with that line "The Universal Father can’t know his own origin because he is infinite and eternal which means he has no origin or beginning or end," as i think he has a mechanism in himself that eliminates the previous creation in memory symbolically represented by a baby not knowing his origin at birth or anything else for that matter. the question is why should it eventually exist without limitations, wouldn't it make more sense when everyone is settled in light and life to just start it all over again? where's the incentive to go on past that point? god would end it all at some point because it would be boring to go on past that point. surely god can end all creation and start it over, why not? 12/21/12 means nothing but i do hope we get the 6th epochal revelation sometime in our lifetimes. natural upheavals will occur as time goes by even the continents will crash back into each other somewhere down the road.

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The Universal Father can’t know his own origin because he is infinite and eternal which means he has no origin or beginning or end..

Your quotes from TUB indicate that all subinfinite creation (including the central universe of material worlds and spiritual beings) has a beginning, but not necessarily an end. In fact, the revelators suggest that it seems entirely possible for all of creation to continue indefinitely "so that eventually the material creation would exist without limitations." If that’s possible, then why should it disappear and start all over at some point?

The revelators themselves may not know the answer. But they state as a fact that "God would still possess the same infinite potential, just as if force, energy, and power had never been poured forth for the endowment of universe upon universe." So why would God at some point end it all?


As-Above-So-Below wrote:
I hope that this subject is not a pre-reference to the Mayan calendar ending on Dec. 21 2012 because I’ve been watching many T.V. programs, lately that are focusing on this so-called doomsday scenario with everyone predicting another catastrophe in the making.

Why is it so difficult for these people, who seem to get great pleasure and profit, from a simple turning over of a calendar. It would seem to me that the Mayan calendar will just turnover and start from the beginning again like we do with our calendar on December 31.

I must admit that our planet is in need of some TCL in the way we have treated it in the past and nature will find a way to keep things going, even if it means a few natural upheavals but, it would seem to me that we have a chance to start the calendar over and make some positive changes.


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rich.sachs wrote:
i would actually agree with that line "The Universal Father can’t know his own origin because he is infinite and eternal which means he has no origin or beginning or end," as i think he has a mechanism in himself that eliminates the previous creation in memory symbolically represented by a baby not knowing his origin at birth or anything else for that matter. the question is why should it eventually exist without limitations, wouldn't it make more sense when everyone is settled in light and life to just start it all over again? where's the incentive to go on past that point? god would end it all at some point because it would be boring to go on past that point. surely god can end all creation and start it over, why not?

If God had a mechanism within himself that is capable of eliminating the 'previous creation', then that mechanism must be God. And if God could, for example, die of old age, then God must be subject to forces beyond his absolute control of everything, which is impossible. And "the watchword of the universe is progress." (4:1.2) I suppose that means it’s not very likely the universe can or will be 'eliminated' at some point. Also, "the Universal Father loves and forever seeks the welfare of his created sons and daughters." (2:5.9) This implies that God will never end his creation to start all of evolution all over again from scratch.. That would be boring! :smile:
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4:1.2 Can you not advance in your concept of God’s dealing with man to that level where you recognize that the watchword of the universe is progress? Through long ages the human race has struggled to reach its present position. Throughout all these millenniums Providence has been working out the plan of progressive evolution. The two thoughts are not opposed in practice, only in man’s mistaken concepts. Divine providence is never arrayed in opposition to true human progress, either temporal or spiritual. Providence is always consistent with the unchanging and perfect nature of the supreme Lawmaker.

2:5.9 The Father’s love follows us now and throughout the endless circle of the eternal ages. As you ponder the loving nature of God, there is only one reasonable and natural personality reaction thereto: You will increasingly love your Maker; you will yield to God an affection analogous to that given by a child to an earthly parent; for, as a father, a real father, a true father, loves his children, so the Universal Father loves and forever seeks the welfare of his created sons and daughters.


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really it all starts from paradise this time but never before or after, how do you explain the beginning then? this is the first time the universal father has started all of creation, then he would have an origin. how did he come to his origin before starting all of creation?

Bart wrote:
I suppose that means it’s not very likely the universe can or will be 'eliminated' at some point.


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Rich,
You've created your own rabbit hole and are now sucking others into it with you. You've said "time exists but it doesn't exist. to be or not to be, is that the question?" For material beings time exists. "when all of creation is settled in light and life does it disappear and start over again?" No, not according to The Urantia Book. "so the universal father doesn't know his origin or how it all ends? i don't think so." What kind of nonsensical question/answer is this? "so does creation just stretch to infinity or does it disappear and start over at some point? they say "even if," not when creation continues into eternity." It stretches on into infinity according to the teachings of The Urantia Book; no rebooting.

You've said "i think he has a mechanism in himself that eliminates the previous creation in memory..." -- our discussion here is to focus on what is taught by The Urantia Book. What you think is your choice, but it has nothing to do with the teaching of the book. "wouldn't it make more sense when everyone is settled in light and life to just start it all over again?" No, it wouldn't and that's not what The Urantia Book teaches. " even the continents will crash back into each other somewhere down the road." Really? You didn't learn that from studying The Urantia Book.

And the hypothetical question in your last post is not addressed by The Urantia Book so is irrelevant to our discussions. If you're going to continue to post prolifically then please spend a bit more time understanding the questions and the answers as they are provided in the book -- that's the reason we're here and not to conjecture on irrelevant issues.

32:5.2 ... Of course, you mortals find it difficult to grasp the idea of an eternal purpose; you are virtually unable to comprehend the thought of eternity, something never beginning and never ending.

Larry


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rich - don't know if you're being provocative or simply illustrating the keen limitations to our mind's capacity. While we cannot understand that which cannot be explained by those with far greater intellect, experience, and perspective than their audience, you supply nonsensical answers to "solve" that which is no mystery to Him who is the source of everything. It is interesting that you ascribe boredom, beginnings, and endings and new beginnings to that which is outside of "time", a concept in and of itself we do not understand. It is perceived and experienced as a lineal sequence of "events" but it is not. You seek the beginning and end of time only because of our experience and our perspective and our context - all and each of which is miniscule - it's like a cell in your butt explaining the solar system it cannot see or fathom. Such contemplative riddling reminds me of the koans in Zen...presented as riddles without any reasoned solution but the focused mind contortions DO, sometimes and eventually, deliver Satori - a moment of brilliant insight and understanding where the answer is presented as outside the conundrum - but not within the riddle. But in this case, the question is irrelevant to the question itself - when did eternity begin and when will it end? Excuse me? I ain't the sharpest pencil in the box but even I am sharper than that...and I suspect you are too. Let's not forget where does infinity begin and where does it end? Perhaps a thread of dumb questions is in order...I got plenty of them too.


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''really it all starts from paradise this time but never before or after, how do you explain the beginning then? this is the first time the universal father has started all of creation, then he would have an origin. how did he come to his origin before starting all of creation?''

The uncaused Cause — the Universal Father !

kapish ?

And all force is circuited in Paradise, comes from the Paradise Presences and returns thereto, and is in essence a manifestation of the uncaused Cause — the Universal Father; and without the Father would not anything exist that does exist.


42:1.6 Energy proceeds from Paradise, fashioned after the divine order. Energy — pure energy — partakes of the nature of the divine organization; it is fashioned after the similitude of the three Gods embraced in one, as they function at the headquarters of the universe of universes. And all force is circuited in Paradise, comes from the Paradise Presences and returns thereto, and is in essence a manifestation of the uncaused Cause — the Universal Father; and without the Father would not anything exist that does exist.


118:6.2 To advocate the omnificence of primal Deity would be equal to disenfranchising well-nigh a million Creator Sons of Paradise, not to mention the innumerable hosts of various other orders of concurring creative assistants. There is but one uncaused Cause in the whole universe. All other causes are derivatives of this one First Great Source and Center. And none of this philosophy does any violence to the free-willness of the myriads of the children of Deity scattered through a vast universe.


118:6.3 Within a local frame, volition may appear to function as an uncaused cause, but it unfailingly exhibits inheritance factors which establish relationship with the unique, original, and absolute First Causes.


kapish
kapish is formally spelled as capisce (pronounced as cah-peesh) which is derived from the italian word capire "to understand" and from latin capere "to grasp or to seize".

it is now used in american slang to say "got it" or "understand."

common alternative spellings you might encounter are capice, capicé, capiche, capeesh, capisch, capishe and coppish.


teacher: everyone shut up otherwise you will all be in detention, kapish?


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i don't post prolifically, but ferns and vegetation were definitely prolific. 59:4.13 Now, and suddenly, the prolific fern family appeared and quickly spread over the face of the rapidly rising land in all parts of the world. Tree types, two feet thick and forty feet high, soon developed; later on, leaves evolved, but these early varieties had only rudimentary foliage. There were many smaller plants, but their fossils are not found since they were usually destroyed by the still earlier appearing bacteria. 59:5.14 This crustal uneasiness — the settling and rising of the land — in connection with the prolific vegetation of the coastal swamps, contributed to the production of extensive coal deposits, which have caused this period to be known as the Carboniferous. And the climate was still mild the world over.


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Rich,
Your last post here is total nonsense and has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of this thread, which you started and named "it's the end of the world as we know it." You've commented instead on the use of the word prolific rather than on the criticism that your discussion had wandered away from Urantia book teachings. If you wish to continue to post here, no more nonsense.

Larry


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OK, so we're just abandoning English as a means of communication?

The following sentence has no relationship to any known language on this planet:
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I have additional information on this which could define your irregular posts put does this seem to summarize, in theory, what you may be attempting to project?


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