Urantia Book Forum

Urantia Book Discussion Board : Study Group
It is currently Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:58 pm +0000

All times are UTC - 7 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 93 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: I have a question..
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 4059
freelight....those calvanist conservative Christians you mention which believe in predetermined outcomes are maybe half right. I don't think ultimacy is predetermined but I think it has absolute inherency and inevitability of eventuated outcomes. That is, when time and space attains the perfecting point of Universal Light and Life, that result is fore-ordained by the elimination of all forms of sin and corruption and immaturity and lack of experiential wisdom. (Think of these points as ponderments of mine for discussion, not claims of understanding.)

I think this result is being mistaken for the process (as you and others here point out). The UB teaches us, for example, that the Supreme suffers certain growth and actualization delays when any potential is not realized by any being in time and space, and must await for other realizations of other potential for completion. Progress of potential realized is delayed but not denied over time.

This is an important point I think. The effect-arena or radius of repercussions from free will are smaller and smaller from the Creator Sons in each Local Universe, downward and outward in time and space creation because the frequency of error is greater as is the lack of experiential wisdom and spiritization. Freewill most often leads to errors and sins nearest the mortal ascension experience.

While freewill is the path to perfecting and ascension by experiential wisdom attainment, it is also the mechanism for the expression of our experiences with love, truth, beauty, and goodness shared in this family of creation. The reality and ultimacy of absolute love, truth, beauty, and goodness is a very certain and predictable outcome I think.

But the process and adventure and experiential uncertainty of that evolutionary creationism? Very unpredictable I think. The conservative calvanists you mention are missing at least two profound and critical realities...one, at least, is very Biblical (both old and new testament and taught by the Master). The first is that we reap what we sow - wheat or tares. There is good fruit and bitter. Consider the implications. Outcomes cannot be predicted or predetermined if they depend upon the choices decisions, motives, intentions, and skills of the sower!!!

The other blind spot is pure or simplistic creationism vs. evolutionary creationism. Profound differences in these concepts. There is no process in simple creationism...only perfection and sin but no perfecting.

Bradly. 8)


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: I have a question..
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:11 pm +0000
Posts: 932
gizmo wrote:
And realizing this is the beginning of waking up. . . . . God has many ways and means to reach His children, but when reached, the children have work to do in the real world, and that starts with self awareness, the desire to know His will, and the effort to meet every challenge with love.


I think this is what they mean by living loyally. It means being completely dedicated to loving service every nanosecond of conscious living. It's not so much about being aware of one's self, but rather being conscious of, and in a relationship with, the truth, beauty and goodness of every "other thing" and every "other self" in God's universe, including God himself.

(1596.6) 142:1.4 Love is the rule of living within the kingdom--supreme devotion to God while loving your neighbor as yourself.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: I have a question..
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 4059
Let me suggest a keyword search for evolutionary and evolution to gain more insight into this very interesting topic. Many people, including religionists and Christian religionists, understand material evolution as witnessed or discovered in the historical record of geologic and biological progress. While some deny such evolution they do recognize and understand it. Most people accept and embrace the evidence of material evolution.

But the UB teaches personal, social, planetary, universal, and Deity evolutionary progress too. A unique and profound set of integrated and unified concepts that form a perspective of reality I have never conceived of nor read about prior to or since the UB teachings found me. Such a belief delivers an amazing paradigm shift of extraordinary power and transformation of perspective and philosophy in those who are able to perceive and embrace such knowledge.

Those who believe only in perfection and sin and those who only believe in material evolution and those who only believe in perfection and sin and material evolution are like the blind ones describing their part of the proverbial elephant. For evolution is truly about progress and the perfecting technique of freewill in time by experiential wisdom attainment by partnership between Perfect Deity and the perfecting children of time as expressed in the Deity of Experience.

This system and relationship and mechanism and organism is unique to the UB. Consider the blindness suffered by those without such knowledge. Those among us who proclaim there is no freewill are still blind to this reality.

0:7.1 (10.6) The Deity mechanism of the master universe is twofold as concerns eternity relationships. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Spirit are eternal—are existential beings—while God the Supreme, God the Ultimate, and God the Absolute are actualizing Deity personalities of the post-Havona epochs in the time-space and the time-space-transcended spheres of master universe evolutionary expansion. These actualizing Deity personalities are future eternals from the time when, and as, they power-personalize in the growing universes by the technique of the experiential actualization of the associative-creative potentials of the eternal Paradise Deities.

3:2.2 (46.6) Within the bounds of that which is consistent with the divine nature, it is literally true that “with God all things are possible.” The long-drawn-out evolutionary processes of peoples, planets, and universes are under the perfect control of the universe creators and administrators and unfold in accordance with the eternal purpose of the Universal Father, proceeding in harmony and order and in keeping with the all-wise plan of God. There is only one lawgiver. He upholds the worlds in space and swings the universes around the endless circle of the eternal circuit.

4:1.2 (54.5) Can you not advance in your concept of God’s dealing with man to that level where you recognize that the watchword of the universe is progress?Through long ages the human race has struggled to reach its present position. Throughout all these millenniums Providence has been working out the plan of progressive evolution. The two thoughts are not opposed in practice, only in man’s mistaken concepts. Divine providence is never arrayed in opposition to true human progress, either temporal or spiritual. Providence is always consistent with the unchanging and perfect nature of the supreme Lawmaker.


15:11.1 (179.11) It is on such worlds as Uversa that the beings representative of the autocracy of perfection and the democracy of evolution meet face to face. The executive branch of the supergovernment originates in the realms of perfection; the legislative branch springs from the flowering of the evolutionary universes.

evolutionary:

https://www.urantia.org/urantia-book/se ... &op=Search

evolution:

https://www.urantia.org/urantia-book/se ... &op=Search

8)


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: I have a question..
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:16 pm +0000
Posts: 1166
Location: Nanticoke NY
fanofVan wrote:
A unique and profound set of integrated and unified concepts that form a perspective of reality I have never conceived of nor read about prior to or since the UB teachings found me. Such a belief delivers an amazing paradigm shift of extraordinary power and transformation of perspective and philosophy in those who are able to perceive and embrace such knowledge.

This system and relationship and mechanism and organism is unique to the UB. Consider the blindness suffered by those without such knowledge. Those among us who proclaim there is no freewill are still blind to this reality.


I feel you are going too far. The idea that I had not conceived of any concept found in tUB would be invalidating, both to the authors of the Urantia Papers, and to my own prior experiences before reading it. You say that those who do not read or have discovered the Urantia Papers "suffer blindness". This is not the viewpoint of most people in this forum, that I have found. They feel that the fifth epochal revelation is more of a confirmation, a vindication or validation of their earlier striving for God's love. We always give the credit, for the experts and philosophers that other members share, that appear to conform with the philosophy of the authors, without ever having read the text. And when philosophers act in alignment with God's will, we see the great alignment of tUB's advice (the Authors' advice), when we ask independently for these blessings of faith.

Even though they haven't read the Urantia Book, but they agree with its precepts, and since they are trying to do God's will, they reveal more about the truth in tUB than we could know ourselves simply by reading it.

I find your own perspective Bradley to be incorrigible sophistry, and I am only doing as you have asked in your previous post, to call out overt declarations and hypocrisy. Just because you are an avid endorser of tUB readership, however your great claim to its knowledge does not mete with your explanations.

_________________
to the Underlaying Unity of All Life so that the Voice of Intuition may guide Us closer to Our Common Keeper


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: I have a question..
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:52 am +0000
Posts: 983
Stephen,
When you quoted Bradly's post, below, you started in the middle of a paragraph, leaving out the first sentence on which the rest depends. Let me fix it for you:
SEla_Kelly wrote:
fanofVan wrote:
But the UB teaches personal, social, planetary, universal, and Deity evolutionary progress too. A unique and profound set of integrated and unified concepts that form a perspective of reality I have never conceived of nor read about prior to or since the UB teachings found me. Such a belief delivers an amazing paradigm shift of extraordinary power and transformation of perspective and philosophy in those who are able to perceive and embrace such knowledge.

This system and relationship and mechanism and organism is unique to the UB. Consider the blindness suffered by those without such knowledge. Those among us who proclaim there is no freewill are still blind to this reality.


I feel you are going too far. The idea that I had not conceived of any concept found in tUB would be invalidating, both to the authors of the Urantia Papers, and to my own prior experiences before reading it. You say that those who do not read or have discovered the Urantia Papers "suffer blindness". This is not the viewpoint of most people in this forum, that I have found. They feel that the fifth epochal revelation is more of a confirmation, a vindication or validation of their earlier striving for God's love. We always give the credit, for the experts and philosophers that other members share, that appear to conform with the philosophy of the authors, without ever having read the text. And when philosophers act in alignment with God's will, we see the great alignment of tUB's advice (the Authors' advice), when we ask independently for these blessings of faith.

Even though they haven't read the Urantia Book, but they agree with its precepts, and since they are trying to do God's will, they reveal more about the truth in tUB than we could know ourselves simply by reading it.

I find your own perspective Bradley to be incorrigible sophistry, and I am only doing as you have asked in your previous post, to call out overt declarations and hypocrisy. Just because you are an avid endorser of tUB readership, however your great claim to its knowledge does not mete with your explanations.


As I understand Bradly's message, he wrote that most people have heard of and understand material evolution, but that the UB is unique in addressing these other types of evolution: personal, social, planetary, universal, and Deity evolutionary progress too.

I, for one, agree with Bradly on that score. I had heard of evolution, material, physical, evolution of species. But the UB is the *only* teaching I have ever come across that explains that even the planet itself evolves; our spirits evolve; our society evolves; and yes, even Deity evolves.

I agree with you, Stephen, that many people "Even though they haven't read the Urantia Book, but they agree with its precepts". I don't think Bradly disputes that. He is talking about the types of evolution that go beyond material/ physical. You are talking more generally about the philosophies of the UB, which are much broader and more generally understood by non-UB readers than the type of evolution Bradly is talking about.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: I have a question..
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 4059
SEla_Kelly wrote:
fanofVan wrote:
A unique and profound set of integrated and unified concepts that form a perspective of reality I have never conceived of nor read about prior to or since the UB teachings found me. Such a belief delivers an amazing paradigm shift of extraordinary power and transformation of perspective and philosophy in those who are able to perceive and embrace such knowledge.

This system and relationship and mechanism and organism is unique to the UB. Consider the blindness suffered by those without such knowledge. Those among us who proclaim there is no freewill are still blind to this reality.


I feel you are going too far. The idea that I had not conceived of any concept found in tUB would be invalidating, both to the authors of the Urantia Papers, and to my own prior experiences before reading it. You say that those who do not read or have discovered the Urantia Papers "suffer blindness". This is not the viewpoint of most people in this forum, that I have found. They feel that the fifth epochal revelation is more of a confirmation, a vindication or validation of their earlier striving for God's love. We always give the credit, for the experts and philosophers that other members share, that appear to conform with the philosophy of the authors, without ever having read the text. And when philosophers act in alignment with God's will, we see the great alignment of tUB's advice (the Authors' advice), when we ask independently for these blessings of faith.

Even though they haven't read the Urantia Book, but they agree with its precepts, and since they are trying to do God's will, they reveal more about the truth in tUB than we could know ourselves simply by reading it.

I find your own perspective Bradley to be incorrigible sophistry, and I am only doing as you have asked in your previous post, to call out overt declarations and hypocrisy. Just because you are an avid endorser of tUB readership, however your great claim to its knowledge does not mete with your explanations.


Stephen - if you haven't found unique concepts in the UB, then that reveals much about yourself. Blindness indeed.

There are hundreds, at least, of concepts original and unique to the Revelation Stephen....how can you not know this???!!! Shall we list them for you? Dozens in the Foreward alone. Good Grief.

I have made no claims, great or otherwise, about my knowledge or understanding...but thank you anyway for your personal insults, as the insult by some is high praise indeed.

You also deliberately misquote and misrepresent my words, speaking of sophistry!! Although yours is none too subtle.

My only reference to blindness was specific to those, like you, who claim there is no freewill.

And you accuse me of hypocrisy??!! Hahaha....good one!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: I have a question..
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:16 pm +0000
Posts: 1166
Location: Nanticoke NY
Well it looks like you are saying that people who have not read the Urantia Book are spiritually blind. And that the concepts found in tUB are original concepts that the world didn't already know?

_________________
to the Underlaying Unity of All Life so that the Voice of Intuition may guide Us closer to Our Common Keeper


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: I have a question..
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:16 pm +0000
Posts: 1166
Location: Nanticoke NY
Agon, Bradley can be right about a lot of things, but when he is saying he wants to dispute every viewpoint that other members offer to this forum. But he found the little metaphor of being a tadpole-ascender, and goes on to claim that it is his philosphy, yet that is no seen by sophistry? By having his little attachments to the Urantia Book, he has led himself to believe that he has a superior philosophy and need to enforce that. He says "we are all tadpoles" and well farbeit from me to say hello I am a frog, but tell me, how does a tadpole perceive himself? Does the seed tell itself, "I am just a seed", or does the seed think: I am the tree. Well, but don't be a tadpole: be a frog. Don't become just a son of God, the finalitor: become like THE father. Woe upon his sweet words, when you will be tricked into the false assurances of his own certainty.

_________________
to the Underlaying Unity of All Life so that the Voice of Intuition may guide Us closer to Our Common Keeper


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: I have a question..
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:52 am +0000
Posts: 983
When Bradly says "I am a tadpole" or "We are all tadpoles", I take that to mean we all have a long way to go in our quest for perfection. That is not sophistry. That is humility. And reality. It's also good news because who wants to wake up perfect all in one instant? We need the process of growth, making mistakes, learning from them, taking steps forward, slipping a few steps back, and this goes on throughout our progression in the Mansion Worlds, Edentia, Jerusem …

Being a Finalitor will be wonderful and exciting; but just like with frogs, you have to spend the time and energy being a tadpole for a while first. "Live loyally each moment as a tadpole" as the UB says. The frog stage will come; but it won't come by forcing it or being impatient.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: I have a question..
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 4059
SEla_Kelly wrote:
Well it looks like you are saying that people who have not read the Urantia Book are spiritually blind. And that the concepts found in tUB are original concepts that the world didn't already know?


Only the blind might claim such Stephen. I've said nothing of the kind. I would say nothing of the kind for I do not believe such a silly thing as that. Spiritual blindness is a very personal issue and has nothing to do with what one reads or does not read or believes or does not believe. This is your own invention and personal problem Stephen. I don't believe anyone needs the UB to be spiritual or to transcend the material mind or become great servants or servant leaders or to grow the fruits of the Spirit. Nor do I believe that those who read the UB must believe its claims to be spiritual and soulful and survive and thrive in the Spirit, and neither do I believe those who do read the UB and do believe the teachings of the UB are more spiritual or can be more spiritual because of the book.

Poppycock!!!!! Never said it....don't believe it. Shame on you!!!!!

I did say that those without knowledge of the evolving and perfecting morontial universes of time and experiential Divinity are philosophically blinded to such a profound reality which does limit one's own understanding and appreciation of such important facts....this is the very purpose of epochal revelation Stephen.

The fact and function of the evolutionary perfecting process is very unique to the UB. That's the point. How does such knowledge change our own perspective and philosophy?? That's the question.

And again, only the blind do not know that the UB is filled with facts and knowledge and concepts that are original and the world does not already know Stephen!! Perhaps, once upon a time, these teachings were taught at Dalamatia and the Garden but I doubt such primitive minds were given the extent of knowledge contained in the UB back then.

Did you know of the Thought Adjuster and the Supreme and the midwayers and the 7 trillion worlds of mortals and morontial reality and architectural spheres and fusion and finality and agondonters and trinitization Stephen before the UB!!??? Get real dude. Blind indeed. The very purpose of Epochal Revelation is knowledge and facts and concepts to eliminate error and reduce confusion and restore lost knowledge...as the UB says:

101:4.3 (1109.4) Truth is always a revelation: autorevelation when it emerges as a result of the work of the indwelling Adjuster; epochal revelation when it is presented by the function of some other celestial agency, group, or personality.

101:4.4 (1109.5) In the last analysis, religion is to be judged by its fruits, according to the manner and the extent to which it exhibits its own inherent and divine excellence.

101:4.5 (1109.6) Truth may be but relatively inspired, even though revelation is invariably a spiritual phenomenon. While statements with reference to cosmology are never inspired, such revelations are of immense value in that they at least transiently clarify knowledge by:

101:4.6 (1109.7) 1. The reduction of confusion by the authoritative elimination of error.
101:4.7 (1109.8) 2. The co-ordination of known or about-to-be-known facts and observations.
101:4.8 (1110.1) 3. The restoration of important bits of lost knowledge concerning epochal transactions in the distant past.
101:4.9 (1110.2) 4. The supplying of information which will fill in vital missing gaps in otherwise earned knowledge.
101:4.10 (1110.3) 5. Presenting cosmic data in such a manner as to illuminate the spiritual teachings contained in the accompanying revelation.



I know you do not believe the UB is Epochal Revelation of cosmological facts Stephen as you say so all the time....your disbelief in freewill and your belief that Lucifer was doing God's will by iniquity and rebellion and your claims of pre-existence and many other fundamental disagreements you proclaim as your own which defy and contradict the UB which makes you no friend of the UB or any body of its students and that you seek an audience and platform for the proclamations of your own beliefs rather than make any pretense of study of the UB seeking any appreciation or understanding of its teachings.

I do not know why you are even allowed to speak here at all Stephen. But your lies and deceit and contradictions about me, my words, and the UB are obvious enough to all who attend here....if not to you. I see you.




SEla_Kelly wrote:
Agon, Bradley can be right about a lot of things, but when he is saying he wants to dispute every viewpoint that other members offer to this forum. But he found the little metaphor of being a tadpole-ascender, and goes on to claim that it is his philosphy, yet that is no seen by sophistry? By having his little attachments to the Urantia Book, he has led himself to believe that he has a superior philosophy and need to enforce that. He says "we are all tadpoles" and well farbeit from me to say hello I am a frog, but tell me, how does a tadpole perceive himself? Does the seed tell itself, "I am just a seed", or does the seed think: I am the tree. Well, but don't be a tadpole: be a frog. Don't become just a son of God, the finalitor: become like THE father. Woe upon his sweet words, when you will be tricked into the false assurances of his own certainty.


More falsehood. I do not dispute "every viewpoint" and welcome diversity of perspective. I dispute your falsehoods and misrepresentations and misstatements which defy and contradict the UB....get used to it.

My "little attachments" to the Revelation have led to a feeling and philosophy that is hard to describe. Certainly I feel humbled and small and unworthy and in awe and overwhelmed by enormity and mystery and uncertainty....a mere tadpole in a small pond within an endless creation I cannot fathom. On the other hand, I know and feel that I am a beloved child of the creator of all things and all beings in this enormity and mystery and uncertainty and am confident in the friendliness and affection I receive and am protected by so that I might proceed without fear to claim my birthright of eternal adventure and destiny!! This philosophy is superior to some others...or so the Master and the UB teaches. It delivers attachment of the branch to the vine and brings forth the fruit of the Spirit and the Divine assurance of Sonship.

I will become a frog as the tadpole does....living joyfully and loyally as a tadpole first. No frog was ever not a tadpole first Stephen and no tadpole was ever not a frog in their time and WAY.

I will become a finaliter after I am a frog of fusion. You don't yet seem to get this analogy Stephen. A tadpole is not a baby frog. The tadpole was chosen for this reason. A tadpole goes through 7 cycles or circles of growth from fins and gills and tail to none of those but with legs and feet and lungs. The tadpole lives under the water. The frog above. The tadpole transforms and transcends from one creature into a completely different creature.

Just like mortals transform through the 7 Circles of Progress into becoming fused with the God Fragment to become a whole new creature. We are all tadpoles Stephen until we fuse. It is not bragging and it is not insulting to be called a tadpole....it is not humbling or exalting....it simply is.

You claim to already be a great finaliter on your return trip to Paradise where you have been already to minister to God's needs and prayers....I know, I read your claims. But you are not even fused yet Brother...or you would not be here pestering this community with your antics and falsehoods.

You are obviously filled with doubts and uncertainties and brood constantly about your unknown future and outcomes. You are the one who does not feel nor believe in the very certain assurance promised by Jesus and described in the UB which is inherent to the connection to the Spirit. You teach others that assurance is false.

The UB says it is inevitable for the true believer and a gift of Divinity to the very soul and mind of the mortal ascender. If you do not feel assured or have assurance Stephen, it is you who has a serious problem!!!

1:5.4 (28.1) Even though material mortals cannot see the person of God, they should rejoice in the assurance that he is a person; by faith accept the truth which portrays that the Universal Father so loved the world as to provide for the eternal spiritual progression of its lowly inhabitants; that he “delights in his children.” God is lacking in none of those superhuman and divine attributes which constitute a perfect, eternal, loving, and infinite Creator personality.

5:4.2 (66.6) The great and immediate service of true religion is the establishment of an enduring unity in human experience, a lasting peace and a profound assurance...

34:6.12 (381.6) And when such a life of spirit guidance is freely and intelligently accepted, there gradually develops within the human mind a positive consciousness of divine contact and assurance of spirit communion; sooner or later “the Spirit bears witness with your spirit (the Adjuster) that you are a child of God.” Already has your own Thought Adjuster told you of your kinship to God so that the record testifies that the Spirit bears witness “with your spirit,” not to your spirit.

34:6.13 (381.7) The consciousness of the spirit domination of a human life is presently attended by an increasing exhibition of the characteristics of the Spirit in the life reactions of such a spirit-led mortal, “for the fruits of the spirit are love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and temperance.” Such spirit-guided and divinely illuminated mortals, while they yet tread the lowly paths of toil and in human faithfulness perform the duties of their earthly assignments, have already begun to discern the lights of eternal life as they glimmer on the faraway shores of another world; already have they begun to comprehend the reality of that inspiring and comforting truth, “The kingdom of God is not meat and drink but righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit.” And throughout every trial and in the presence of every hardship, spirit-born souls are sustained by that hope which transcends all fear because the love of God is shed abroad in all hearts by the presence of the divine Spirit.

101:0.3 (1104.3) Religion, the conviction-faith of the personality, can always triumph over the superficially contradictory logic of despair born in the unbelieving material mind. There really is a true and genuine inner voice, that “true light which lights every man who comes into the world.” And this spirit leading is distinct from the ethical prompting of human conscience. The feeling of religious assurance is more than an emotional feeling. The assurance of religion transcends the reason of the mind, even the logic of philosophy. Religion is faith, trust, and assurance.

101:2.14 (1107.4) Your deepest nature—the divine Adjuster—creates within you a hunger and thirst for righteousness, a certain craving for divine perfection. Religion is the faith act of the recognition of this inner urge to divine attainment; and thus is brought about that soul trust and assurance of which you become conscious as the way of salvation, the technique of the survival of personality and all those values which you have come to look upon as being true and good.

Stephen, the doubts and fears and anxieties you proclaim here are all mind poison and personal to you. You create them and uphold them and sustain them and consume them and give them life and power and choose to share them here. But they have no meaning or value to anyone else and they are not the fruits of the Spirit led life and they contradict the teachings we share here. Best wishes on your journey...but you might wish to tend to your own knitting and leave mine to me. Thank you.

Bradly =; 8)


Last edited by fanofVan on Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:24 am +0000, edited 8 times in total.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: I have a question..
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 4059
Agon D. Onter wrote:
Stephen,
When you quoted Bradly's post, below, you started in the middle of a paragraph, leaving out the first sentence on which the rest depends. Let me fix it for you:
SEla_Kelly wrote:
fanofVan wrote:
But the UB teaches personal, social, planetary, universal, and Deity evolutionary progress too. A unique and profound set of integrated and unified concepts that form a perspective of reality I have never conceived of nor read about prior to or since the UB teachings found me. Such a belief delivers an amazing paradigm shift of extraordinary power and transformation of perspective and philosophy in those who are able to perceive and embrace such knowledge.

This system and relationship and mechanism and organism is unique to the UB. Consider the blindness suffered by those without such knowledge. Those among us who proclaim there is no freewill are still blind to this reality.


I feel you are going too far. The idea that I had not conceived of any concept found in tUB would be invalidating, both to the authors of the Urantia Papers, and to my own prior experiences before reading it. You say that those who do not read or have discovered the Urantia Papers "suffer blindness". This is not the viewpoint of most people in this forum, that I have found. They feel that the fifth epochal revelation is more of a confirmation, a vindication or validation of their earlier striving for God's love. We always give the credit, for the experts and philosophers that other members share, that appear to conform with the philosophy of the authors, without ever having read the text. And when philosophers act in alignment with God's will, we see the great alignment of tUB's advice (the Authors' advice), when we ask independently for these blessings of faith.

Even though they haven't read the Urantia Book, but they agree with its precepts, and since they are trying to do God's will, they reveal more about the truth in tUB than we could know ourselves simply by reading it.

I find your own perspective Bradley to be incorrigible sophistry, and I am only doing as you have asked in your previous post, to call out overt declarations and hypocrisy. Just because you are an avid endorser of tUB readership, however your great claim to its knowledge does not mete with your explanations.


As I understand Bradly's message, he wrote that most people have heard of and understand material evolution, but that the UB is unique in addressing these other types of evolution: personal, social, planetary, universal, and Deity evolutionary progress too.

I, for one, agree with Bradly on that score. I had heard of evolution, material, physical, evolution of species. But the UB is the *only* teaching I have ever come across that explains that even the planet itself evolves; our spirits evolve; our society evolves; and yes, even Deity evolves.

I agree with you, Stephen, that many people "Even though they haven't read the Urantia Book, but they agree with its precepts". I don't think Bradly disputes that. He is talking about the types of evolution that go beyond material/ physical. You are talking more generally about the philosophies of the UB, which are much broader and more generally understood by non-UB readers than the type of evolution Bradly is talking about.


Thank you Agon D. Onter!! Always on point and adding to topics with your interesting and helpful perspective!!

I was hoping to address freelight's point about the perspective of most Christians....and, I think, most people in general who are God/heaven believers (most of the planet by far - 80% +). I have never read or heard of a philosophy that teaches that heaven (the morontial estate) is progressive and perfecting by experience due to the freewill choices of all beings in time and space. And an experiential God is heresy to most believers. I found these teachings to be profoundly illuminating and tectonic in effect to my own paradigm shift of understanding. The UB is filled with such mind altering and philosophy and perspective shifting information and teachings. How anyone could read 10 or more pages from anywhere in the UB and not discover new information and concepts and perception is quite puzzling to me. But this one aspect of reality is profoundly important and unique I think.

Thanks for being here!!

:wink: :D 8)


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: I have a question..
PostPosted:  
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:13 am +0000
Posts: 1065
Location: Denver CO
SeLA_Kelly:

Quote:
I find your own perspective Bradley to be incorrigible sophistry, and I am only doing as you have asked in your previous post, to call out overt declarations and hypocrisy. Just because you are an avid endorser of tUB readership, however your great claim to its knowledge does not mete with your explanations.


This comment is totally unnecessary here. Your post above this line is acceptable, but this is not. As you can see, it has opened a firestorm of defensiveness. And this has effectively derailed the entire discussion at hand.

This is what happens when we descend into personal attack, rather than simple discussion of the issues.

Quote:
Agon, Bradley can be right about a lot of things, but when he is saying he wants to dispute every viewpoint that other members offer to this forum. But he found the little metaphor of being a tadpole-ascender, and goes on to claim that it is his philosphy, yet that is no seen by sophistry? By having his little attachments to the Urantia Book, he has led himself to believe that he has a superior philosophy and need to enforce that. He says "we are all tadpoles" and well farbeit from me to say hello I am a frog, but tell me, how does a tadpole perceive himself? Does the seed tell itself, "I am just a seed", or does the seed think: I am the tree. Well, but don't be a tadpole: be a frog. Don't become just a son of God, the finalitor: become like THE father. Woe upon his sweet words, when you will be tricked into the false assurances of his own certainty.


Again here, you are on the attack. Others have tried to help you see another point of view, but you persist in this emphasis on one personality rather than the issue at hand.

Please stop.

MaryJo


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: I have a question..
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:16 pm +0000
Posts: 1166
Location: Nanticoke NY
fanofVan wrote:
Did you know of the Thought Adjuster and the Supreme and the midwayers and the 7 trillion worlds of mortals and morontial reality and architectural spheres and fusion and finality and agondonters and trinitization Stephen before the UB!!??? Get real dude. Blind indeed. The very purpose of Epochal Revelation is knowledge and facts and concepts to eliminate error and reduce confusion and restore lost knowledge...as the UB says:


YES. That was unconscious growth of God's spirit inside me. It happened BEFORE someone told me to read the Urantia Book. I understand better now with fifth epochal revelation. Whether these theories and facts are reported to human individuals, they reveal the reality of the grand universe, and they would be true whether man was confronted with them or not. Again, I have never spurned or questioned the validity of tUB, and I had to say this because this is the fifth time he has suggested this to the forum.

Even so, spiritually blind or not, there is something called the agondonter, someone who finds the first source and center despite the real blindness created by lack of inclusion: a quarantine upon Satania that shut down the universe broadcast circuits, within the jurisdiction of Uversa. I cannot even worry about your accusations; they do not prevent me from finding and knowing the father.

_________________
to the Underlaying Unity of All Life so that the Voice of Intuition may guide Us closer to Our Common Keeper


Last edited by SEla_Kelly on Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:51 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: I have a question..
PostPosted:  
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:13 am +0000
Posts: 1065
Location: Denver CO
OK - so now, you have set the record straight. Let's leave it at that. No more "he said, he said," please...

And that goes for everyone embroiled in this discussion. There is a vast amount of archival material here, if someone really cares to examine every thing someone has said in the past. But what is the point, except to stir up controversy and pit one against the other? How about we concentrate on the present discussion?

MaryJo


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: I have a question..
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 4059
SEla_Kelly wrote:
fanofVan wrote:
Did you know of the Thought Adjuster and the Supreme and the midwayers and the 7 trillion worlds of mortals and morontial reality and architectural spheres and fusion and finality and agondonters and trinitization Stephen before the UB!!??? Get real dude. Blind indeed. The very purpose of Epochal Revelation is knowledge and facts and concepts to eliminate error and reduce confusion and restore lost knowledge...as the UB says:


YES. That was unconscious growth of God's spirit inside me. It happened BEFORE someone told me to read the Urantia Book. I understand better now with fifth epochal revelation. Whether these theories and facts are reported to human individuals, they reveal the reality of the grand universe, and they would be true whether man was confronted with them or not. Again, I have never spurned or questioned the validity of tUB, and I had to say this because this is the fifth time he has suggested this to the forum.

Even so, spiritually blind or not, there is something called the agondonter, someone who finds the first source and center despite the real blindness created by lack of inclusion: a quarantine upon Satania that shut down the universe broadcast circuits, within the jurisdiction of Uversa. I cannot even worry about your accusations; they do not prevent me from finding and knowing the father.


Spiritual blindness is your issue and your claims... not mine.

Your claims of knowledge about TA's and the Supreme and midwayers, etc. is a false claim which, importantly, denies the need for and purposes of Epochal Revelations. That which is unconscious is not conscious by definition. Spiritual blindness is different than ignorance or the lack of information and knowledge of reality. Anyone with faith, assurance, and trust are not spiritually blind but may still lack knowledge of universe reality.

I certainly do agree that there is only one universe reality regardless of how much or how little we each know of it. Again, the purpose of epochal revelation is to provide more concepts and facts and knowledge of reality to help us be less blind in our perspective of reality and our philosophy of living that shapes our choices, motives, and priorities.

Perhaps, as Maryjo suggested, we can get focused on the actual topic? That is freewill. Recently we have been discussing the evolutionary process related to freewill as it pertains to personal, social, planetary, universal, and Deity progress in time and space. And how unique that perspective is to the UB.


Last edited by fanofVan on Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:36 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 93 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Registered users: Google [Bot]


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You can post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group