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 Post subject: Re: I have a question..
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Bart wrote:
Here, the revelators actually describe a simple mechanical model of all reality! And I think (as I argued elsewhere), they portray here what nowadays is known in mathematics as a chaotic oscillation. A chaotic oscillation can be imagined as a single dimensionless point (or a singularity), that describes an infinite oscillatory (cyclical) trajectory in a so-called state-space. The speed of the point may be (almost) infinite, and its never exactly repeating trajectory can be seen as an analogy of what TUB calls: eternity-infinity or all that is called real.

Infinite hierarchical self-similar (fractal) patterns or geometrical structure (the proverbial order in chaos) emerges in a chaotic oscillation, when (for example) the position of the singularity in its state-space is plotted at regular temporal intervals. Now, suppose this oscillating singular point (the absolute cause of all causes) is continuously conscious of its entire oscillatory trajectory in all past infinite eternity. Then we (or our individual material consciousness) may exist as (different) frequencies in this continuous consciousness, such that our individual space-time reality is projected as a complex (chaotic) sequence of (quantum mechanical) events in time..


I would have a discussion with you about this interesting hypothetical you mention, but I have been warned in engaging in hypothetical's altogether.

I find it funny that you can go on a long tangent that is not directly supported by the U.B and yet I misquote a LITERAL part of the Urantia book by maybe 1 or 2 words and I get noticed and told that I am straying to far from the U.B lol sorry to make a point using your post, I just find this comical.

I am not saying there is no truth to what you are saying though bart. I find this post one of your most interesting.

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boomshuka wrote:
I would have a discussion with you about this interesting hypothetical you mention, but I have been warned in engaging in hypothetical's altogether. …
To say something new, one must necessarily "engage in hypotheticals". The point is that, here, one also must (more or less) comply with TUB teachings. If you think you can do that, then feel free to discuss anything..


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Bart wrote:
boomshuka wrote:
I would have a discussion with you about this interesting hypothetical you mention, but I have been warned in engaging in hypothetical's altogether. …
To say something new, one must necessarily "engage in hypotheticals". The point is that, here, one also must (more or less) comply with TUB teachings. If you think you can do that, then feel free to discuss anything..


And my point is that when I have engaged in hypotheticall's I have complied (more or less) with the TUB teaching's, etleast out of the 200 post's I have made I would say that I have for the most part. When I look at what you just posted about this "oscillation" there is many many things you post that are to be no where found in the TUB,again though I don't think thats a big deal it seemingly happen's all the time in this forum where people speak of strange and new concepts that are not directly in TUB.

I consider the TUB as much as a revelation as anyone in this forum if not more so. I have already shared that the TUB came to me in a dream when I was 16 so I have alway's accepted the entire Urantia Book as a revelation from the moment I read it 9 years ago. I have never doubted any one of its concepts since I was 16. I have heard so many reader's needing proof, or needing to research how the book came into existance so that they can better believe that this is a revelation. I never even bothered to research how the book came into existance because I have alway's believed in its authneticity. Nor did I have to research all of its claim's to "prove" it to myself.

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I know how these conversation's go though, those who have read the book the longest believe they are "leaders" and "teachers".

Only those who truley soley depend upon the gospel of jesus are the real teacher's and should be the one's to "lecture" and "quote" on website's like these with authority behind their tone, that is why I do not expound on the TUB with quotes and citation's as much and I have a somewhat simple speech form in my postings, but I doubt these son's and daughter's of god are spending to much time lecturing people on websites lol.

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boomshuka wrote:
I know how these conversation's go though, those who have read the book the longest believe they are "leaders" and "teachers". …
Who are "leaders or teachers" generally has little or anything to do with (absolute) truth..


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Bart wrote:
boomshuka wrote:
I know how these conversation's go though, those who have read the book the longest believe they are "leaders" and "teachers". …
Who are "leaders or teachers" generally has little or anything to do with (absolute) truth..


I am not saying that. I am saying that those who read the Urantia book for long years and year's and understand the book well, do not necessarilly understand concepts like (absolute truth) more than new reader's who have not been reading the Urantia Book very long.

Again its hard to judge anyone: me, you etc as having a full grasp of the TUB because only the "Fruits of the spirit" can reveal how much real capacity we have for understanding, and the Fruits of the spirit are not likely to shine threw the internet hahaha, etleast not abundately in my opinion.

So people cannot say I do not understand these concept's fully or that I do, because you do not know me and vice versa so all conversation's pertaining to our degree of comperhenion in truth are likely to be somewhat speculative seing as we are Incomplete in our growth and understanding.

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Agreed. :D


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Roger ~ 10 ~ 4
boomshuka / Ditto

Brother Bart 8)
A Big Thank you for your time and effort in your
most informative reply , and for your related links ,
Quotes and personal commentary .

It has helpd me with a greater understanding of my
question about ''Paradise in the Ultimatron'' .
Also I am re reading The Foreword as it contains many of the
Keys to the Revealed answers i'm looking for also .
As well as a word search , and Paper 11.

Deity Derivative help'd

I See Everything as being A Attribute of/from
Paradise , and ALL The Attributes As Part of IT .

As well as Patterns ~ ...

and this ... 41:9.2
Atoms and electrons are subject to gravity. The ultimatons are not subject to local gravity, the interplay of material attraction, but they are fully obedient to absolute or Paradise gravity, to the trend, the swing, of the universal and eternal circle of the universe of universes. Ultimatonic energy does not obey the linear or direct gravity attraction of near-by or remote material masses, but it does ever swing true to the circuit of the great ellipse of the far-flung creation.

Anywho , it seems this original topic is sorta
spinning off into its own new an unique Pattern
from its original intent .
So maybe sometime i will start a Question / Study
Topic specificly about this , for a more indepth study .
But for now i will take personal notes and study further about it .

Again ~ Thanks .

8. Paradise Gravity

(125.4) 11:8.1 The inescapable pull of gravity effectively grips all the worlds of all the universes of all space. Gravity is the all-powerful grasp of the physical presence of Paradise. Gravity is the omnipotent strand on which are strung the gleaming stars, blazing suns, and whirling spheres which constitute the universal physical adornment of the eternal God, who is all things, fills all things, and in whom all things consist.

(125.5) 11:8.2 The center and focal point of absolute material gravity is the Isle of Paradise, complemented by the dark gravity bodies encircling Havona and equilibrated by the upper and nether space reservoirs. All known emanations of nether Paradise invariably and unerringly respond to the central gravity pull operating upon the endless circuits of the elliptical space levels of the master universe. Every known form of cosmic reality has the bend of the ages, the trend of the circle, the swing of the great ellipse.

(125.6) 11:8.3 Space is nonresponsive to gravity, but it acts as an equilibrant on gravity. Without the space cushion, explosive action would jerk surrounding space bodies. Pervaded space also exerts an antigravity influence upon physical or linear gravity; space can actually neutralize such gravity action even though it cannot delay it. Absolute gravity is Paradise gravity. Local or linear gravity pertains to the electrical stage of energy or matter; it operates within the central, super-, and outer universes, wherever suitable materialization has taken place.

(125.7) 11:8.4 The numerous forms of cosmic force, physical energy, universe power, and various materializations disclose three general, though not perfectly clear-cut, stages of response to Paradise gravity:

(126.1) 11:8.5 1. Pregravity Stages (Force). This is the first step in the individuation of space potency into the pre-energy forms of cosmic force. This state is analogous to the concept of the primordial force-charge of space, sometimes called pure energy or segregata.

(126.2) 11:8.6 2. Gravity Stages (Energy). This modification of the force-charge of space is produced by the action of the Paradise force organizers. It signalizes the appearance of energy systems responsive to the pull of Paradise gravity. This emergent energy is originally neutral but consequent upon further metamorphosis will exhibit the so-called negative and positive qualities.

[We designate these stages ultimata.] :wink:

(126.3) 11:8.7 3. Postgravity Stages (Universe Power). In this stage, energy-matter discloses response to the control of linear gravity. In the central universe these physical systems are threefold organizations known as triata. They are the superpower mother systems of the creations of time and space. The physical systems of the superuniverses are mobilized by the Universe Power Directors and their associates. These material organizations are dual in constitution and are known as gravita. The dark gravity bodies encircling Havona are neither triata nor gravita, and their drawing power discloses both forms of physical gravity, linear and absolute.


Last edited by coop on Sat Feb 05, 2011 6:57 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Yea I'll just add to Bart's original thought about all things existing in god with a few UB few line's that give further information regarding this exciting reality.

(55.3) 4:1.5 God upholds “all things by the word of his power.” And when new worlds are born, he “sends forth his Sons and they are created.” God not only creates, but he “preserves them all.” God constantly upholds all things material and all beings spiritual. The universes are eternally stable. There is stability in the midst of apparent instability. There is an underlying order and security in the midst of the energy upheavals and the physical cataclysms of the starry realms.

(55.4) 4:1.6 The Universal Father has not withdrawn from the management of the universes; he is not an inactive Deity. If God should retire as the present upholder of all creation, there would immediately occur a universal collapse. Except for God, there would be no such thing as reality. At this very moment, as during the remote ages of the past and in the eternal future, God continues to uphold. The divine reach extends around the circle of eternity. The universe is not wound up like a clock to run just so long and then cease to function; all things are constantly being renewed. The Father unceasingly pours forth energy, light, and life. The work of God is literal as well as spiritual. “He stretches out the north over the empty space and hangs the earth upon nothing.”

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Thanks for the thoughts and quotes, Coop and Boomshuka. :) I personally found that when you apply this idea (of a self-contained infinite oscillation underlying and correlating all of reality, as the First Source And Center of energy-matter creation), then The Urantia Book is full of supporting references. TUB may even suggest that when we (finally) discover this (yet unknown) all pervading force or energy in our physical universe, we will have (almost) solved the mystery of matter! ..
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42:0.1 The foundation of the universe is material in the sense that energy is the basis of all existence, and pure energy is controlled by the Universal Father. Force, energy, is the one thing which stands as an everlasting monument demonstrating and proving the existence and presence of the Universal Absolute. This vast stream of energy proceeding from the Paradise Presences has never lapsed, never failed; there has never been a break in the infinite upholding.

42:1.3 There is innate in matter and present in universal space a form of energy not known on Urantia. When this discovery is finally made, then will physicists feel that they have solved, almost at least, the mystery of matter. And so will they have approached one step nearer the Creator; so will they have mastered one more phase of the divine technique; but in no sense will they have found God, neither will they have established the existence of matter or the operation of natural laws apart from the cosmic technique of Paradise and the motivating purpose of the Universal Father.

3:2.3 Of all the divine attributes, his omnipotence, especially as it prevails in the material universe, is the best understood. Viewed as an unspiritual phenomenon, God is energy. This declaration of physical fact is predicated on the incomprehensible truth that the First Source and Center is the primal cause of the universal physical phenomena of all space. From this divine activity all physical energy and other material manifestations are derived. Light, that is, light without heat, is another of the nonspiritual manifestations of the Deities. And there is still another form of nonspiritual energy which is virtually unknown on Urantia; it is as yet unrecognized.

Let me try and (more or less) get back on topic (the nature of individual consciousness and free will). I think that our personal free-will may be limited to changing our consciousness of absolute reality. And I’m certainly not trying to preach, Boomshuka. ;) It’s only an idea..

I attempted to establish that our consciously experienced physical reality may derive from the infinite and eternal oscillation of a singular point in space, and that such a view is compatible with TUB’s concept of the First Source and Center; "the primal cause of the universal physical phenomena of all space" (3:2.3). Mathematical (deterministic) chaos, served as an analogy here. The trajectory of any chaotic oscillation appears erratic, and is indeed fundamentally unpredictable, but the overall oscillation evolves in accord with an intricate fractal (hierarchical, self-similar) geometrical organisation; the so-called strange-attractor of a deterministic chaotic system.

Philosophically, a chaotic oscillation can be conjectured to be continuously conscious of its entire (past-infinity) complex trajectory. And human consciousness may exist as a specific frequency (or melody :)) within this oscillating superconscious point or singularity. Then, our entire physical reality will be produced as a temporal, fractal, discontinuous (fragmented), finite projection of the singular, continuous, infinite oscillation, which is "all and in all" and must pervade every ultimaton of our projected physical world.

The frequency (speed) of the (chaotic) oscillation in space, may be (almost) infinite; relative to the frequency of our human consciousness, which exists within the oscillation. We will then (consciously) perceive (or experience) physical reality as a coherently evolving (almost) infinite material structure, composed of evolving different things.. Only when the frequency of our consciousness approaches infinity/continuity, will we perceive or experience the original singularity as a (static) absolute unit or Paradise.

So, at each moment in time, there may exist an almost infinite realm of possible conscious experiences to choose from, in between our actual finite consciousness and Paradise or absonite consciousness. And I think our free will is limited to choose either ascending paths, thus increasing the basic frequency of our consciousness, or not. This might be equivalent to doing God’s will, or not.

According to such a theory, we do have relative free will. But we cannot choose beyond what is choosable..
Quote:
118.9.2 Mechanisms produced by higher minds function to liberate their creative sources but to some degree unvaryingly limit the action of all subordinate intelligences. To the creatures of the universes this limitation becomes apparent as the mechanism of the universes. Man does not have unfettered free will; there are limits to his range of choice, but within the radius of this choice his will is relatively sovereign.


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Here are some more TUB quotes which begin to make sense if reality (consciousness) is viewed as a finite projection of an infinite oscillation which is eternally and mechanically produced by one absolute cause and/or infinite thought.

All creature consciousness is a part (or finite projection) of "the infinite thought and the eternal purpose (the oscillation) of the First Great Source and Center" (32:5.1). We exist as living coherent (personal) finite time-space energy patterns within the infinite thought of this infinite singular mechanism (42:12.2). The physical, mindal, and spiritual domains of universal creation "are mechanically co-ordinated or unified, as well as absolutely controlled and divinely correlated by one infinite mind" (56:0.1)..
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32:5.1 There is a great and glorious purpose in the march of the universes through space. All of your mortal struggling is not in vain. We are all part of an immense plan, a gigantic enterprise, and it is the vastness of the undertaking that renders it impossible to see very much of it at any one time and during any one life. We are all a part of an eternal project which the Gods are supervising and outworking. The whole marvelous and universal mechanism moves on majestically through space to the music of the meter of the infinite thought and the eternal purpose of the First Great Source and Center.

42:12.2 Mind is always creative. The mind endowment of an individual animal, mortal, morontian, spirit ascender, or finality attainer is always competent to produce a suitable and serviceable body for the living creature identity. But the presence phenomenon of a personality or the pattern of an identity, as such, is not a manifestation of energy, either physical, mindal, or spiritual. The personality form is the pattern aspect of a living being; it connotes the arrangement of energies, and this, plus life and motion, is the mechanism of creature existence.

56:0.1 God is unity. Deity is universally co-ordinated. The universe of universes is one vast integrated mechanism which is absolutely controlled by one infinite mind. The physical, intellectual, and spiritual domains of universal creation are divinely correlated. The perfect and imperfect are truly interrelated, and therefore may the finite evolutionary creature ascend to Paradise in obedience to the Universal Father’s mandate: “Be you perfect, even as I am perfect.”


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And here’s a quote about "atomic cohesion".. In order to pervade even "the vacuum embraced within each physical atom", and to be simultaneously "the secret of the basic constitution and ultimate behavior in and among all atoms", this (singular) force must indeed be smaller than the smallest and greater than the greatest.. :)
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42:8.1 While [linear] gravity is one of several factors concerned in holding together a tiny atomic energy system, there is also present in and among these basic physical units a powerful and unknown energy [absolute gravity], the secret of their basic constitution and ultimate behavior, a force which remains to be discovered on Urantia. This universal influence permeates all the space embraced within this tiny energy organization.


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Brother Bart 8)
Again Thanks , your comments and quotes
had me think about something interesting and related
that i have been reading about for several years now .
CERNS ~ LHC .

Just maybe perhaps we are close to finding out about
these Secrets an mysteries That the UPapers say
... '' a force which remains to be discovered on Urantia.''
Maybe hunh ?

'' 42:1.3 There is innate in matter and present in universal space a form of energy not known on Urantia. When this discovery is finally made, then will physicists feel that they have solved, almost at least, the mystery of matter. And so will they have approached one step nearer the Creator;''

WE Can only hope and pray that IF or When Mankind finds
this Mystery Force , that It Will be used for the creative
Greater Good for All . And NOT used for or by some Evil
Power for Harm to others as a weapon of Mass Destruction WMD !

As it seems that often is the case , Even Mans Good
'' FREEWILL'' Intentions Can and Do Go Awry . eh

A Little knowledge Can be a Dangerous thing .

But it is said that ALL Things Do work together for the greater
Good , When We Trust in the Lord .

The Papers say that '' There are No shortcuts ''
And I Think that we still have got a lot of homework yet to
DO . Before ... these Secrets an mysteries Will be discovered on Urantia.''

One Baby step at a time ... and we will get There .
And on to the Age of Light and Life .

CERN ~ LHC
The Large Hadron Collider
Our understanding of the Universe is about to change...

http://public.web.cern.ch/public/en/lhc/lhc-en.html

http://public.web.cern.ch/public/en/Res ... or-en.html

THE GOD PARTICLE
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2008/ ... nbach-text
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Hi Coop. :) Allow me to explain my view of fundamental particle physics as relating to the phenomenal universe, and subsequently my view of TUB’s absolute gravity force as relating to fundamental particle physics..

The so-called standard model of particle physics explains the fundamental forces in nature (the strong force, the weak force, the electromagnetic force, and gravity) as interactions between sub-atomic particles. All forces between particles are hypothesized to be mediated by the exchange of other particles, known as gauge bosons. For example, the strong force basically holds atomic nuclei together and is thought to be mediated by heavy gauge bosons called gluons, and the electromagnetic force between electrically charged particles appears to be mediated by the exchange of (massless) photons.

Now, this so-called "God Particle" (or Higgs boson) is a hypothetical particle associated with the equally hypothetical Higgs field which is thought to fill the universe, and these two (the field and the bosons) are thought to be responsible for giving other particles mass, thus mediating the force of gravity, and thereby unifying quantum mechanics and general relativity theory into a single theory of all known fundamental forces.

The problem is that Higgs bosons have never been detected. Until they are, the apparent existence and origin of mass and gravity may remain the greatest mystery in particle science. The LHC experiments at CERN attempt to find Higgs bosons by smashing protons and heavy ions into eachother at higher energies than ever before. When these tiny objects subsequently disintegrate, Higgs bosons might show up as one of their constituent sub-atomic parts.

Image

However, the mass of a Higgs boson is generally predicted to correspond to over 100 proton masses or about 200,000 electron masses. So, while Higgs bosons (if they exist) may perhaps represent linear gravity, they cannot implement the unknown all pervading absolute gravity force postulated by The Urantia Book. Instead, they must themselves be pervaded by absolute gravity, which even permeates every ultimaton.

Basically, the fundamental particles of the standard model are separate material things. And current mainstream science still tries to explain the universe as emerging from simple, multiple force mediated interactions, between these separate fundamental particles. I think this idea will radically change once we have discovered the existence of absolute gravity as a single unitary force or process underlying and permeating all physical reality, including such mysterious phenomena as apparent "dark energy" and "dark matter".

My guess is that we will eventually discover the ultimaton as the fundamental building block of all that we call matter; i.e. of all fundamental particles, even photons. Consequently, we will be compelled to conclude that all known linear forces (strong, weak, electromagnetic, and gravitational) must really be One single complex non-linear force: absolute gravity.

According to TUB, absolute gravity implements the complex elastic tension that accounts for all material organization in the phenomenal universe. And it is mathematically impossible to unify all known forces into one simple (linear) type of local particle interaction. The universe must then be absolutely dominated by an unknown (nonlinear) global force outside and underlying our entire physical reality.

There will be only one possible explanation: Our material reality is a finite projection of one all pervading self-contained infinite mechanism. And we know of only one mathematical paradigm consistent with such a conclusion which might suggest the nature of this mechanism: a singular chaotic oscillation.. :)


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Hi Nikki Jane, I'm John, a reader for many years. I've read the Ubook twice and I can only express my understanding of how it seems to me if it helps.
The existential God you speak of, all knowing and everpreasant in space and time, is but one expression of diety. We seem to be an expression of God the Supreme, (the God of expereience). If God is perfect to begin with, he lacks the experience of perfecting. The seven superuniverses and all therein are God's grand experiment answering his own desire to experience through creating and indwelling his intellegent creatures the act of perfecting. Through each creature's moral choices and experiences God participates along with us in the perfection process thus gaining the experience of perfecting, the culmination of which will see the seven superuniverses settled in light and life.
70,000 superuniverses are now forming beyond the seven that embody the expressinon of the Trinity, Father, Son, and Spirit. Those 70,000 will be the cosmic petri dish for the expression of God the Ultimate.
Beings who can be anytime anyplace. Being ultimacers, they will not have the experience of the Supreme.
Are we not being groomed to be the representatives of the Supreme to the next expression of diety; the Ultimate? Will we not in doing so atain Ultimacy ourselves? Very cool stuff in our destiny.
Our individulal roles in this process will express themselves according to our gifts and talents. In a larger sense you can say all is pre-ordained. I believe it is so in that all God's expressions will reach fruition, what role each of us plays largely lies in our own choices and development of our own talents.
Let me know if this answeres your questions or just raises more. Your brother in the journey. John.


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