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I am sure if you put the word -opinion- in your posts more often it will help. I have to remind myself to do it all the time and I know people don't get as offended when I do put that word in my post's as opposed to when I leave it out and just ramble.

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Tony Ma (and others),

This Forum has rules and guidelines and a goal. They are all plainly laid out at http://forums.truthbook.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3582

The 3rd paragraph says:

"This discussion board, as an extension of the Truthbook.com website, has one primary goal:
To be a safe place where newcomers to The Urantia Book can ask questions and explore the teachings of The Urantia Book in a communal setting."


If you do not understand this, please feel free to leave.

If you have an opinion about something inside The Urantia Book, we'd like to hear it.

If you have an opinion about anything else, it does not serve any real purpose on this forum. We have been flexible on this issue - to a degree. We don't really mind if you want to wax lyrical after wrapping yourself in a carpet and studying your navel last night, but be reasonable and respect what this forum is all about.

Bearing the above in mind, we do draw the line at people spouting their own philosophies and beliefs and presenting them as if these ideas are contained within The Urantia Book. That's called delusion, ignorance, or lying.

So, if you find that your pen is itching to extrapolate and elaborate when explaining The Urantia Book, please pause, reflect, and rethink what you are about to commit to paper.


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The only reason I protest is due to the fact that others also expressed their personal philosophies and beliefs and claim to be UB supported and you guys do not take any action at all. It is uneven handed Justice.

Anyway, I will find other ways. There is always another method to skin a cat.

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P.137 - §6 It is repugnant to the divine nature to suffer any sort of deterioration or ever to permit the execution of any purely personal act in an inferior way. It should be made clear, however, that, if, in the divinity of any situation, in the extremity of any circumstance, in any case where the course of supreme wisdom might indicate the demand for different conduct--if the demands of perfection might for any reason dictate another method of reaction, a better one, then and there would the all-wise God function in that better and more suitable way. That would be the expression of a higher law, not the reversal of a lower law.


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In my opinion there is no other path to attaining god-consciousness, or cosmic mind, or any other type expansion of our mind unless we follow this one path.

Urantia Book Teachings
"The doing of the will of God is nothing more or less than an exhibition of creature willingness to share the inner life with God."

The Urantia Book, (1221.2) 111:5.


the Urantia Book in my opinion is saying that going on a path towards god-consciousness and the attainment of spiritual fruit does not require any pre-required mind power's, all it requires is faith and a submission of will to do the father's will like a human child that submits to his father's will.

Clearly doing the will of the father is the ultimate task for mortal's and Jesus clearly in my opinion had faith in Mankind to do the will of the father regardless of who they are or what their mindal ability's where.

In my opinion Jesus ended the rebellion where people like Calagastia sought to make man "liberated" and set him "free" from doing the father's will, because Jesus made it forever true that even the frailest of human's can achieve Adjuster-likeness threw doing the father's will by faith alone, and if the frailest of human being's has a less than perfect mind he offer's his instead, and if that is not enough he offer's the Spirit of Truth as well.

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StrongcharactersRnotderivedfromnotdoingwrongbutratherfrom
actuallydoingrightUnselfishnesisthebadgeofhumangreatnes
Thehighestlevelsofselfrealizationareatainedbyworshipandservice
Thehapyandefectivepersonismotivatednotbyfearofwrongdoingbutby
loveofrightdoing


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Let's list some ways the Urantia Papers describe faith, which has the highest value:

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spirit-faith (worship) is the religion of the reality of spiritual experience


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faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen.


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Faith is a living attribute of genuine personal religious experience.


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Faith has falsified its trust when it presumes to deny realities and to confer upon its devotees assumed knowledge. Faith is a traitor when it fosters betrayal


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he zeal of faith is according to knowledge, and its strivings are the preludes to sublime peace.


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a dynamic religious faith, which is not subject to precise definition


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faith is always logical from the basis of an inner viewpoint,


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Faith is the act of recognizing the validity of spiritual consciousness--something which is incapable of other mortal proof.


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Religion without faith is a contradiction; without God, a philosophic inconsistency and an intellectual absurdity.


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Faith is man's true wealth


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While faith is the energy of the better life, nevertheless, must you work out your own salvation with perseverance.


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And all such true faith is predicated on profound reflection, sincere self-criticism, and uncompromising moral consciousness. Faith is the inspiration of the spiritized creative imagination.


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Faith is the open door for entering into the present, perfect, and eternal love of God.


Quote:
Faith is to religion what sails are to a ship; it is an addition of power, not an added burden of life. There is but one struggle for those who enter the kingdom, and that is to fight the good fight of faith. The believer has only one battle, and that is against doubt--unbelief.


Quote:
Faith is the price you pay for entrance into the family of God;


Quote:
Let the term "faith" stand for the individual's relation to God rather than for the creedal formulation of what some group of mortals have been able to agree upon as a common religious attitude. "Have you faith?


So which one is the faith you are talking about?

Do you mean everyone of them? If so you have not yet made a will decision.

Quote:
P.984 - §5 Sin must be redefined as deliberate disloyalty to Deity. There are degrees of disloyalty: the partial loyalty of indecision; the divided loyalty of confliction; the dying loyalty of indifference; and the death of loyalty exhibited in devotion to godless ideals.


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In my opinion Jesus ended the rebellion where people like Calagastia sought to make man "liberated" and set him "free" from doing the father's will, because Jesus made it forever true that even the frailest of human's can achieve Adjuster-likeness threw doing the father's will by faith alone, and if the frailest of human being's has a less than perfect mind he offer's his instead, and if that is not enough he offer's the Spirit of Truth as well.


Apparently not.

Quote:
P.379 - §5 Though the Spirit of Truth is poured out upon all flesh, this spirit of the Son is almost wholly limited in function and power by man's personal reception of that which constitutes the sum and substance of the mission of the bestowal Son.


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In my opinion Jesus ended the rebellion where people like Calagastia sought to make man "liberated" and set him "free" from doing the father's will, because Jesus made it forever true that even the frailest of human's can achieve Adjuster-likeness threw doing the father's will by faith alone, and if the frailest of human being's has a less than perfect mind he offer's his instead, and if that is not enough he offer's the Spirit of Truth as well.

I agree with your interpretation of what the UB teaches, boomshuka. We have an astonishing array of help within us and surrounding us. Our God is very aware of how fragile we are in this world of chaos and makes no path too difficult. The UB has given me more of an awareness of this help, and has also freed my mind from needless and time-wasting "what if" questions. Some days it's just one foot in front of the other, some days it's running wildly into the dark...but I'm held and guided each step of the way. We are each guided intimately, whether we're aware of it or not. But have to say, for myself, it's really sweet to know this now O:)

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boomshuka wrote:
the Urantia Book in my opinion is saying that going on a path towards god-consciousness and the attainment of spiritual fruit does not require any pre-required mind power's, all it requires is faith and a submission of will to do the father's will like a human child that submits to his father's will.
Agreed.. But TonyMa may have a point here. Before we can fully submit our will to the Father’s will, attain God-consciousness, and enter the kingdom of heaven, we must become "personally receptive to the spirit of Truth". Therefore, it seems we (or many of us) must "pay the price of dedication to the Father's will". We must be willing "to be born again" and "to be remade". Jesus said: "Whoso would save his life must lose it. Think not that I have come to bring peace but rather a soul struggle". The Urantia Book even speaks of "being willing to be subject to this terrible and testing process of self-destruction and soul reconstruction".. :-s
Quote:
34:5.5 Though the spirit of Truth is poured out upon all flesh, this spirit of the Son is almost wholly limited in function and power by man’s personal reception of that which constitutes the sum and substance of the mission of the bestowal Son. The Holy Spirit is partly independent of human attitude and partially conditioned by the decisions and co-operation of the will of man. Nevertheless, the ministry of the Holy Spirit becomes increasingly effective in the sanctification and spiritualization of the inner life of those mortals who the more fully obey the divine leadings.

160:5.10 I see in the teachings of Jesus, religion at its best. This gospel enables us to seek for the true God and to find him. But are we willing to pay the price of this entrance into the kingdom of heaven? Are we willing to be born again? to be remade? Are we willing to be subject to this terrible and testing process of self-destruction and soul reconstruction? Has not the Master said: "Whoso would save his life must lose it. Think not that I have come to bring peace but rather a soul struggle"? True, after we pay the price of dedication to the Father's will, we do experience great peace provided we continue to walk in these spiritual paths of consecrated living.


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Bart wrote:
boomshuka wrote:
the Urantia Book in my opinion is saying that going on a path towards god-consciousness and the attainment of spiritual fruit does not require any pre-required mind power's, all it requires is faith and a submission of will to do the father's will like a human child that submits to his father's will.
Agreed.. But TonyMa may have a point here. Before we can fully submit our will to the Father’s will, attain God-consciousness, and enter the kingdom of heaven, we must become "personally receptive to the spirit of Truth". Therefore, it seems we (or many of us) must "pay the price of dedication to the Father's will". We must be willing "to be born again" and "to be remade". Jesus said: "Whoso would save his life must lose it. Think not that I have come to bring peace but rather a soul struggle". The Urantia Book even speaks of "being willing to be subject to this terrible and testing process of self-destruction and soul reconstruction".. :-s
Quote:
34:5.5 Though the spirit of Truth is poured out upon all flesh, this spirit of the Son is almost wholly limited in function and power by man’s personal reception of that which constitutes the sum and substance of the mission of the bestowal Son. The Holy Spirit is partly independent of human attitude and partially conditioned by the decisions and co-operation of the will of man. Nevertheless, the ministry of the Holy Spirit becomes increasingly effective in the sanctification and spiritualization of the inner life of those mortals who the more fully obey the divine leadings.

160:5.10 I see in the teachings of Jesus, religion at its best. This gospel enables us to seek for the true God and to find him. But are we willing to pay the price of this entrance into the kingdom of heaven? Are we willing to be born again? to be remade? Are we willing to be subject to this terrible and testing process of self-destruction and soul reconstruction? Has not the Master said: "Whoso would save his life must lose it. Think not that I have come to bring peace but rather a soul struggle"? True, after we pay the price of dedication to the Father's will, we do experience great peace provided we continue to walk in these spiritual paths of consecrated living.



"It is not so much that man is conscious of God as that man yearns for God that results in universe ascension."


Okay exactly you just proved my point. Who is more likely to go undergo soul deconstruction, someone who spent their life becoming highly educated going to harvard and meditating and connecting to their "inner self". Or a poor frail beggar who is promised eternal life if all he has to do is remake himself by receieving the bestowal son threw -personal reception- which has to do with his personality. I will put my money on the begger 9 times out of 10. I have a friend who is homeless and I know he would do anything for the free gift of eternal life, alot of the frailest of human being's have the will to do anything to lay seige to the kingdom of heaven. Where as alot of so-called educated men will do anything to stay as he is. He has built a permament fort on earth already, where as many beggar's have already began to think about their next otherworldly home.

Primitive religion was ubssessed with sacrafice and punishment for reward's,in the U.B they say that primitive man could not understand getting divine favour for faith because it was to simple. but this new gospel for me has nothing to do with trying to gain mindal power's and everything to do with just letting jesus and god in our inner lives and this happens threw what our personality desire's and chooses. That doesn't take any special power.

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StrongcharactersRnotderivedfromnotdoingwrongbutratherfrom
actuallydoingrightUnselfishnesisthebadgeofhumangreatnes
Thehighestlevelsofselfrealizationareatainedbyworshipandservice
Thehapyandefectivepersonismotivatednotbyfearofwrongdoingbutby
loveofrightdoing


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Nothing is said about a poor beggar with limited mind endowment can not going to Heaven, but there is something said about those with higher intellectual ability wasting their talents on doing nothing instead of getting a better education and self-supporting careers.

Quote:
P.1217 - §4 Mind is your ship, the Adjuster is your pilot, the human will is captain. The master of the mortal vessel should have the wisdom to trust the divine pilot to guide the ascending soul into the morontia harbors of eternal survival. Only by selfishness, slothfulness, and sinfulness can the will of man reject the guidance of such a loving pilot and eventually wreck the mortal career upon the evil shoals of rejected mercy and upon the rocks of embraced sin. With your consent, this faithful pilot will safely carry you across the barriers of time and the handicaps of space to the very source of the divine mind and on beyond, even to the Paradise Father of Adjusters.
P.1285 - §2 And so the decision awaits each of you as it once awaited each of us: Will you fail the God of time, who is so dependent upon the decisions of the finite mind? will you fail the Supreme personality of the universes by the slothfulness of animalistic retrogression? will you fail the great brother of all creatures, who is so dependent on each creature? can you allow yourself to pass into the realm of the unrealized when before you lies the enchanting vista of the universe career--the divine discovery of the Paradise Father and the divine participation in the search for, and the evolution of, the God of Supremacy?
P.1918 - §2 And how much like all selfish mortals was this unfaithful servant with the one talent in that he blamed his slothfulness directly upon his lord. How prone is man, when he is confronted with the failures of his own making, to put the blame upon others, oftentimes upon those who least deserve it!


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I am referring to a normal minded yet poor human being and how sometimes these human's have the best circumstance's to move forward into the kingdom of heaven because alot of these men and women may lack all the pet evil's that certain so-called fortunate men and women have accumilated in their lives that get in the way of them doing the father's will.

As far as mindal endowment though there really is no way to make your mind adjuster like unless you submit to doing the father's will and thats all I really think about that. And submitting to the father's will does not require you to have special mindal ability's.

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actuallydoingrightUnselfishnesisthebadgeofhumangreatnes
Thehighestlevelsofselfrealizationareatainedbyworshipandservice
Thehapyandefectivepersonismotivatednotbyfearofwrongdoingbutby
loveofrightdoing


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There are two topics here, let's do not mix them up: Survival and Growth. When ever growth issue comes up, some argue everybody survives indicating survival is good enough for them. I would like people take this argument off the table when we talk about growth in the Kingdom.

So what does it take to grow in the Kingdom? What do the following statements mean:

Quote:
P.556 - §5 3. Inherent capacities cannot be exceeded; a pint can never hold a quart. The spirit concept cannot be mechanically forced into the material memory mold.


Why do those men and women of normal minded status working hard to move ahead in our society have a lesser chance to grow in the Kingdom than a person in a poor environment?

It is my impression that those who have faith always apply themselves hard in any place of normal occupation. This ensures that they will move ahead in the society.

If you try to compare him with the super rich of our society, that is unfair, due to status difference of material possession and huge degree of variation in educational and environmental upbringing. In fact, normal people like us truly have no personal experiences of being super rich, and the information from books can not be used as sole assessment of their life conducts.

It does not seem right that a normal God knowing person will not make effort to become self-supporting in our society. If he does, he can not help to move head, the sheer God knowingness will make him work harder and better on whatever he does.

Jesus had set a great example of self-supporting before His Baptism. It is an important part of the life for a God knowing mortal.

However, this does not say for those need social assistants as necessity should quit welfaring.

Incidentally, thinking about doing Father's Will and actually making will decisions to do It are not same.


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Jesus made it forever true that even the frailest of human's can achieve Adjuster-likeness threw doing the father's will by faith alone, and if the frailest of human being's has a less than perfect mind he offer's his instead, and if that is not enough he offer's the Spirit of Truth as well.


This assessment does seem to not match the teaching of the Urantia Papers. Those who can not achieve Adjuster likeness are spirit fused if they will to survive.

Quote:
P.556 - §5 3. Inherent capacities cannot be exceeded; a pint can never hold a quart. The spirit concept cannot be mechanically forced into the material memory mold.


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Don't you find fascinating that in the times of jesus those who were wealthy and where in the very least middle class to upper class where the last to accept jesus teachings.

Jesus himself said this.

143:1.5 "But who told you that my gospel was intended only for slaves and weaklings? Do you, my chosen apostles, resemble weaklings? Did John look like a weakling? Do you observe that I am enslaved by fear? True, the poor and oppressed of this generation have the gospel preached to them. The religions of this world have neglected the poor, but my Father is no respecter of persons. BESIDES, the poor of this day are the first to heed the call to repentance and acceptance of sonship. The gospel of the kingdom is to be preached to all men -- Jew and gentile, Greek and Roman, rich and poor, free and bond -- and equally to young and old, male and female"

I am not saying the poor are better or worse than anyone else, but I do find it fascinating that jesus himself said that they were the first to "heed the call to repentance and acceptance of sonship".

Clearly if they are of "sonship" status than the poor of jesus generation outmanouvered the rich and middle class and entered the kingdom first. Again it doesn't make them better, but its still interesting to note.

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Thehighestlevelsofselfrealizationareatainedbyworshipandservice
Thehapyandefectivepersonismotivatednotbyfearofwrongdoingbutby
loveofrightdoing


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the poor of this day are the first to heed the call to repentance and acceptance of sonship.


That means at Jesus generation. At this day and age, it is more likely of those who are highly educated with above normal mindal ability. Please check those who are teachers in the Urantia Papers community, and see whether this is true.

The Urantia Papers themselves already set up a barrier to those who can not read well, or those who can read into what they like and can not impartially assess what are revealed.

For example some people do not like the idea of eugenics; therefore, they reject the Urantia Papers as racist.

Each reader not only have to assimilate a lot information, but also have to get rid off a lot of his personal prejudices, passions and biases in order to have some deeper understandings of these papers. So higher minal endowment is a must if one really wants to be an ambassador of FER.

Before, the class struggle is between rich and poor, now is more like higher or lower intelligence.

So let's move on.


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