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Vann said: "The UB most appeals to truth seekers."

This is to be kept in mind always !

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I understand how that is Maria, because I have Christian friends who I do not want to turn away by pointing out the differences in our beliefs. I enjoy their company and I recognize that we are all learning. But there are many intolerances from religious doctrine both scriptural and traditional that could cause a reaction. Religion can be sometimes dogmatic, and many times a reaction might initially be a concern for one's eternal welfare. I often encounter what seems to be a zero-tolerance attitude toward differing viewpoints. But we should be endeavoring for unity, and loving eachother.

I always look at the best in them. That they are following what they believe is truth in following Christ. I recognize they have a similar goal to be with God and His children.


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'' But we should be endeavoring for unity, and loving each other.''

AMEN Brother 8)

'' spiritual unity, not on theological uniformity

103:5.12 When a member of a social religious group has complied with the requirements of such a group, he should be encouraged to enjoy religious liberty in the full expression of his own personal interpretation of the truths of religious belief and the facts of religious experience. The security of a religious group depends on spiritual unity, not on theological uniformity. A religious group should be able to enjoy the liberty of freethinking without having to become “freethinkers.” There is great hope for any church that worships the living God, validates the brotherhood of man, and dares to remove all creedal pressure from its members.


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Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 2:56 pm +0000
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I ,this week,gave two Urantia books to two coworkers.
They were curious from the description I gave them of the TUB.
In the past when I gave TUB to persons whom I discussed religion with these fundamentalists became upset with it and will probably happen again as it has been.
Nevertheless they have yet to deny there is truth in TUB and have yet to present fault and prove fault against TUB.
They are anchored to tradition from what I have seen in my surroundings.They have been warned sunday after sunday to refrain from any teaching outside of their holy book.Their superiors hold the key to their chains and they openly let them.
My spiritual visits with traditionalists brings me a semi sorrow in that they want the greatest of greatest understanding and knowledge from God whom they love and worship but when confronted at their request to become enlightened they red flag TUB without even moderate investigation.
What I hear most is when confronted with subject material I present extracted from TUB is that "Ill see what my pastor says on it".
TUB is surely and slowly seeping into the world and will come to rise in the time in which it takes fundamentalists to realize they must move on if they want their confusion to subside.
They must adopt by sincere reasoning the things true of God.They must pull up anchor with the intent to satisfy their souls with new truths.New wine is bitter but will season in due time as it has with us.
I do not know of an immediate or short term solution but I keep exposing TUB to the people surrounding me in hopes that one may break the chains fundamentalism has upon them.
I am presently the only one in my household who the TUB attracts .The others are fundamentalists.They do however see and agree upon many non traditional simple truths I have explained drawn from TUB but only if I disguise it as if it were deep reasoning.
Fundamentalist maintain their fundamental holy book is truth,all truth and sin is present if one questions God's truths.No other book is from God therefore there is no greater truth avaliable for them that they do not already have along with,even with all their baggage.
I have at times become particular with whom I give TUB to.For some I think the chains on them are very visible and others not so much.I sometimes think some are not as ready to give up their chains as others may be giving it some thought.
I also think many people will jump on the new wagon only if they see their friend jump on first.However, fundamental supervisors warn of jumping .It is ,after all ,their sheep and they believe they are doing God a duty and serving him to keep the sheep safe from jumping on.


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From this vantage point I am a rogue sheep.There was a weak link and I broke it.
In all actuality the sheep of fundamentalism is not the object of concern but the sheep herder,the one who controls the sheep and protects them .Although Jesus surely engaged in many one on one challenges with the jewish belief his primary target was the big boys in the temple.He knew if he could come across with them then others will follow.
They knew he was right but they could not give it up - power ,just as today those who set themselves up as administrators , teachers ,protectors and ministers cannot give it up either.
I know of many people who will immediately trust a title without hesitation.They however have never probed their intelligence.They took it for granted he/she is from God and the words of truth they speak also.
Without the apostles the long term exposure to Jesus's teachings would have suffered and so I think it is with TUB.Long term exposure is a key factor.Pretty soon people will eventually be comfortable around TUB when the world is saturated with it.


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All of this makes me feel so sad...mourning the virtual loss of several of my Catholic sisters over the years that I have had the book...All of them think I am going to hell, and it just is sad, that's all...I really miss them.

I am sorry that you have these same issues, earl - and others - just know that you are not alone.

MaryJo


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I am unsure what a Catholic is to do but as one raised in a fundamental and evangelical family, I know what I have done. Using The Master as my model, I USE the scriptures to present the Jesusonian truths found therein to contrast with those "other" beliefs in direct conflict with those truths - including Paulinian teachings - to help them find the real Gospel or Good News Jesus proclaims. I am respected by my knowledge of their belief system AND the inconsistancies and conflicts within the bible contrary to the Jesusonian presentation of Father God, the brotherhood of all mankind, the love and mercy ministries, and the fact of The Kingdom at hand (here now). But Baptists are notorious contrarians and believe in each person's relationship with God so finding Baptists in loving disagreement (or contentious conflicts) is not unusual as they reject ALL authority but His.

In studying the papers on Jesus' ministry, it is clear He used familiar and "official" texts to bring the greater truths of the religionist (any religionist) forward for His teachings. He rarely wasted time or breath pointing out the differences or inaccuracies - He did not focus on the shadow of truths (falsehoods) but on the Light found within the beliefs of each - for we all, as mortal ascenders, lack the whole truth or absolute truth, and see truth from a very limited perspective - so I still have false beliefs, even with TUB as my guide. We must present the greater truth we know from the truth content of our fellows and allow their FAITH - not their/our beliefs - to lead them home.

It is really not important that we be right and they be corrected in facts. Our gift is for those seeking what they do not yet have - hope and faith in Love and its Source and Center. And our facts have no greater power than theirs - for it is not the source of faith or its accuracy that really matters on-planet - it is the fact of faith itself that matters. Let those of faith be with their source of faith and support the truth they know without any need to correct them (and expect them to correct you!). For it is their dependence on facts and "their" truth that makes them defensive and judgemental. We are not charged with uplifting or enlightening the faithful - but those who live without faith and struggle in the shadows of fear, anxiety, and hopelessness - the forlorn and forsaken and victims of doubt and darkness.

Anyway, it is a difficult challenge to be sure and I am uncertain that I am right but this is how I interact with the many fundamentalist friends I have and have known over the years. We should remember that our dear ones ARE saved and safe in this mortal struggle and all will find God's mercy and have already been "forgiven" in love. And our faith must be tested in many ways - fundamentalist rejection is but one of those tests. Peace.


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Earl,
I sympathize as I have had in the past some similar challenges. I especially like your statement on sharing truth from the UB: "I disguise it as if it were deep reasoning." I have done that and found that most people in general, and including fundamental Christians will accept statements from the UB as long as they don't know where its coming from (and does not involve multiple universes).

It might help in the future when disguising UB quotes to refer to liberation by what was learned from doing a topical study on traditions of men, because Jesus opposed such cruel bondage. These are issues of fear, trusting in God, and courage.

-Aaron


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In hindsight, I see that my problems with my family arose out of my early declarations of alliance with The Urantia Book. I was so excited to share it with those who I love so much...but it was too much too soon. I see that now, and if I had it to do over, I would be far more careful in introducing these new truths to my family.

Thanks for the more enlightened suggestions of injecting truth...of course I now understand this, but it seems that some bridges have been burned from my early misunderstanding - I was so zealous, and it was far too much for them...

I know all will be well in eternity, but right now - in time and space - it's not so good. But I have not given up...just have to keep a lower profile. I know we all love each other deeply, but we have little to talk about because they know where I am coming from and they remain suspicious - even of our shared love for Jesus...(sigh...)
MaryJo


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Yea I had the same thing happen to me Marry. Though looking back on it now, I think it had more to do with my age as a teenager you can be absolutely right about something but just because of your age people won't really listen to what you are saying. Who wants to listen to some kid tell them about spiritual things?! Hahaha. Its kind of hard for me to go back to those same people and talk about the book, because they have already made up their mind its some weird cult.

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Last edited by As-Above-So-Below on Fri May 10, 2013 3:03 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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So, you think I was guided to do what I did? as in, sharing The Urantia Book as I did back then? And maybe it is part of the Plan??? Yeah - the Boss is never wrong. Even if our choice is wrong, he turns it to good. I didn't realize it then, but now I think that my promptings may have been the result of the Spirit of Truth's work in my mind. I recently read some passages about Pentecost, and one thing that popped out at me that night was this:

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194:2.6 Next, the Spirit of Truth came to help the believer to witness to the realities of Jesus’ teachings and his life as he lived it in the flesh, and as he now again lives it anew and afresh in the individual believer of each passing generation of the spirit-filled sons of God.


I never really saw that word "witness," before, and it stuck a resonance with me. I do believe with all my heart that that is what we are all called to do with others - not to convince them that The Urantia Book is a revelation of God, but to witness to what Jesus has done in our lives. We have to show the beauties of the Kingdom before leading them in to the Kingdom. Although, in the case of my sisters (and one brother), I feel they are already in the Kingdom, but they sure don't seem to be enjoying it ...

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141:6.4 That night Jesus discoursed to the apostles on the new life in the kingdom. He said in part: “When you enter the kingdom, you are reborn. You cannot teach the deep things of the spirit to those who have been born only of the flesh; first see that men are born of the spirit before you seek to instruct them in the advanced ways of the spirit. Do not undertake to show men the beauties of the temple until you have first taken them into the temple. Introduce men to God and as the sons of God before you discourse on the doctrines of the fatherhood of God and the sonship of men. Do not strive with men—always be patient. It is not your kingdom; you are only ambassadors. Simply go forth proclaiming: This is the kingdom of heaven—God is your Father and you are his sons, and this good news, if you wholeheartedly believe it, is your eternal salvation.”



MaryJo


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Agree...maryjo and Earl and Boom and all with As Above....sincere motives and efforts are never wasted and always rewarded....in some way. And the bread placed on such waters may only appear to have been without result or without any apparent good response. But I am minded of the paper on The Trip to Rome which, still, amazes and delights me. For in His travels and by His sharing of Truth with those He encountered, Jesus planted seeds which became pillars of strength and support to the church long after. And just read about the young rich man who would be a missionary for the group of 70 but stumbled and could not.....then. But later became a stalwart in faith and support. There is often a gap between the planting of seeds and the harvest to come. And Jesus showed a profound confidence in allowing the ministering Spirits and God's love to "work-out" the results of His personal ministries among the mortals - He was never disappointed in results or impatient for that was for another "department" to complete and support.

I do not criticize any efforts ever to share in love that which we hold dear and my own experience was no less clumsy or any more effective, especially when so enthused by this marvelous Book and Revelation that it would appear selfish or wrong to withhold this knowledge, thinking that any and all exposed to such truth would be eternally grateful to me for sharing. Well, not so much. Or not always anyway. Perhaps I am only getting older and too conflict adverse to appreciate the audacity of youth and discovery! But there are wiser and more effective ways to approach Jesus' methodologies than those I have attempted to be sure. And complacency or hiding the light under the bushel or the shekel in the ground or burning all the oil in the lamp are certainly NOT better but far worse than doing something - even when done clumsily or with no apparent result!! Grandpa always said, "Do something, even if it's wrong....you'll learn more!"

So, while I fully support the printing and distribution of The Revelation - may it rain TUBs until it floods! - I no longer pound my 30 pounds of Truth onto the heads of those around me thinking they will delight in the Book as I did. Oh wait.....I carried that door stop around for a decade, reading some fascinating fictions and truths, slowly digesting the Truth and the Wholeness within and THEN become an evangelical believer!! It does take time to discover the Book itself. But the truths therein? And the universal and shared truths therein with many other sources of planetary truth and upliftments provide a common ground with most believers of all religions and faith. It's an interesting question........Peace.


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I like the idea of planting seeds of truth amidst whatever misconceptions are prevelant. The idea of proclaiming truth without attacking the old ways. A lot of times traditions of fundamentalism carries heavy weight and cannot be easily dealt with directly by assaulting them. But I do believe that errors of misconception will eventually be weeded out by planting positive truths and letting them grow to fruition. Readers of TUB have a lot to offer fundamentalists, and it is more blessed to give than to recieve.
-Aaron


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