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I have my own ideas regarding the correlation between the # 666 and Johns' anti-christ. Anyone here care to express their own concept of it's origin?

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Aloha Jim and welcome to this forum...Good question. I have wondered how that connection was made. I've never really studied Revelations...ie. John's dream but am interested in your opinion. Thanks...

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Let me first say this is only my opinion. That is not to say i hav'nt reserched this topic extensively. I have spent as much time studying this topic as i have any.

Lets see....where to begin....

After several years of thought and study, I was almost certain that John had received revelations I was not aware of. That somehow he was aware of our "universe history" as explained in the UB. One might remember that our "life "carrier" planets have been numbered as a way to identify each succsesive spirit infused world. I'm sure you remember that Urantia's planetary number was 606. Could John have been aware of this??? Could the number 606 actually be the number John mentioned, but with the many translation changes, re-writes an version alterations, could it be possible that Johns 666 was actually 606 with 1 number being mistranslated? Of course it is possible, and at the time seemed the most likely to me given all the senerios I had looked at. So I put the subject away, feeling reasonably satisfied that my question had been answered so as to move on to other "bigger than life questions". I say "reasonbly" besause there was still a small flicker of doubt. While looking at other topics of interest, Johns revelation would reappear and small peices of puzzle would find their place that would often make me revisit my thoughts of Johns Anti-christ. Had i missed something earlier? What were Johns' circumstances at that time? Was he still in hiding. Could NERO have influenced Johns' revelation?
These thoughts made me revisit Revelation for another go at it.

It was during this reexamination that I came up with a more solid answer to my question. I will go over this new conclusion in my next post. My children have just informed me that it's the 4th of July, and I need to start the grill. Isnt it nice to be needed?
JIM.

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In my haste I neglected to summerize the last post.

My analogy was based on Revelation being an account of history, not an Apocalypse or prophesy. I envisioned Johns dream as to be an explanation of things that have long past....I felt certain Johns essay had been changed to mean something it didnt.......BUT TODAY, I THINK I KNOW BETTER...........

JOHN WAS SPEAKING OF THINGS PRESENT, AND THINGS COMING TO PASS.......
THE FACTS WILL SPEAK FOR THEMSELF.
NOW, LETS SET THE STAGE.

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You have put aside, or discarded other sources. As i said on the last post, i will set the stage. Time hasnt been on my side as i have a family that needs me as much as i WANT to tell you what i have learned. Im excited we have this oppurtunity to exchange our views. God bless.
JIM.

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 Post subject: THE STAGE.
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First if we examine thw word "Antichrist" we find it in only 2 books of the Bible. Those would be 1 JOHN and 2 JOHN. The term is used to describe ANYONE who DENIES THAT JESUS IS THE CHRIST. (1 JOHN 2:22), rejects the father and the son (1 JOHN 2:23), refuses to profess faith in Jesus (1 JOHN 4:3), and disbelieves that Jesus the Christ came in human flesh. ( 2 JOHN 7) The Apostle John was obviously not referring to a particular leader, but rather to individuals who preached a JESUS different from the one represented in Scripture.

THE APOSTLE JOHN PLAINLY STATED THAT DURING HIS TIME "MANY" ANTICHRISTS HAD ALREADY RISEN. ( 1 JOHN 2:18b)

It must be noted, however, that there are a few biblical passages that suggest that biblical writers did indeed have a specific individual in mind that epitomized all antichrist attitudes. This figure is described as the "antichrist that is coming" (1 JOHN 2:18a) and the "man of lawlessness" who is revealed in (2 THESS. 2:3) But this doesnt mean that a future one-world government leader is destined to rise to power.

MANY HISTORIANS AND THEOLOGIANS THEORIZE THAT THESE MAY BE REFERENCES TO NERO, ONE OF THE CRUELEST OF ALL ROMAN EMPERORS.

If we interpret these passages through a "NERONIAN BACKDROP" we might find a clearer perspective on what are otherwise baffling Bible verses, especially those found in the 13th chapter of Revelation.

NERO'S INFAMOUS CHARACTOR MERITS THE TITLE OF THE "BEAST" APPLIED TO HIM BY THE SEER OF THE APOCALYPSE (V.1) REVELATION 13:1-6 GIVES THE GENERIC BACKGROUND OF THE BEAST, WHICH IS THE ROMAN EMPIRE OF THE FIRST CENTURY. THE 7 HEADS CORRESPOND TO THE 7 HILLS OF ROME, WHILE THE 10 HORNS ALLUDES TO THE CAESARS OF THE 1ST CENTURY. THE BLASPHEMOUS WORSHIP DEMANDED BY THE BEAST REMINDS DESTINCTLY REMINDS ONE OF THE "IMPERIAL CULT" OF THE 1ST CENTURY, AND THE WAR THE BEAST WAGES ON THE SAINTS CANNOT HELP BUT RECALL THE INTENSE PERSECUTIONS NERO AND LATER DOMITIAN INFLICTED ON CHRISTIANS BECAUSE THEY DID NOT WORSHIP CAESAR. NERO'S PERSECUTION OF CHRISTIANS FROM NOVEMBER AD 64 TO JUNE AD 68 COULD ACCOUNT, IN PART, FOR THE 42 MONTHS (OR 3 1/2 YEARS) OF OPPRESSION MENTIONED IN REVELATION 13:5. THE REFERENCE IN REVELATION 13:10 TO THOSE WHO KILL WITH THE SWORD BEING KILLED BY THE SWORD REMINDS ONE SIMULTANEOUSLY OF NERO'S PERSECUTION OF CHRISTIANS AND HIS OWN SUICIDE BY HIS SWORD. THE REFERENCE IN REVELATION 13:11-15 TO THE BEAST OF THE LAND SECURING WORSHIP FOR THE BEAST OF THE SEA (ROME WAS ACROSS THE SEA FROM THE PLACE OF THE WRITING OF THE APOCALYPSE, ASIA MINOR,YOU MIGHT REMEMBER JOHN WAS IN HIDING) REMINDS ONE OF THE LOCAL PRIESTS OF THE IMPERIAL CULT IN ASIA MINOR WHOSE TASK WAS TO COMPEL THE PEOPLE TO OFFER SACRIFICE TO CAESAR AND PROCLAIM HIM LORD. MEGALOMANIAC THAT HE WAS, NERO HAD COINS MINTED IN WICH HE WAS CALLED "ALMIGHTY GOD" AND "SAVIOR." NERO'S PORTRAIT ALSO APPEARS ON COINS AS THE GOD APOLLO PLAYING A LYRE. WHILE EARLIER EMPERORS WERE PROCLAIMED DEITIES UPON THEIR DEATHS, NERO ABANDONED ALL RESERVE AND DEMANDED DIVINE HONORS WHILE STILL ALIVE (AS DID ALSO CALIGULA BEFORE HIM, AD. 37-41) THOSE WHO WORSHIPED THE EMPEPER RECIEVED A CERTIFICATE OR MARK OF APPROVAL, "CHARAGMA", THE SAME WORD USED IN REVELATION 13:16. FURTHERMORE, IN THE REIGN OF EMPEROR DECIUS(AD 249-251), THOSE WHO DID NOT POSSESS THE CERTIFICATE OF SACRIFICE TO CAESAR COULD NOT PURSUE TRADE, A PROBITION THAT GOES BACK TO NERO, REMINDING ONE OF REVELATION 13:17.

THESE ARE BUT JUST A FEW OF THE MANY WAYS THAT NERO FULFILLS THE ROLE OF THE ANTICHRIST.

BUT, I THINK THE MOST FASCINATING ASPECT OF THE NERONIAN INTERPRETATION OF REVELATION AND RELATED PASSAGES INVOLVES THE ROMAN EMPERORS NAME.

IF ONE TAKES THE NAME OF NERO CAESAR, TRANSLATES IT INTO GREEK (NERON KAISAR), THEN TRANSLITERATES THE RESULT INTO HEBREW (NRWN QSR), AND FINALLY GIVES EACH HEBREW LETTER ITS NUMERICAL EQUIVALENT ( N=50, R=200, W =6, N=50, Q=100, S=60, R=200), THE SUM TOTAL OF ALL THE NUMBERS IS NONE OTHER THAN 666. (REV. 13:18). CLEARLY, PLACING THE CONCEPT OF AN ANTICHRIST IN THE HISTORICAL AND CULTURAL CONTEXT OF THE FIRST CENTURY MAKES A GREAT DEAL OF SENSE. TRYING TO PLACE THE "ANTICHRIST" IN TODAYS CULTURE, HOWEVER HAS CONSISTENTLY LED TO FOLLY.

WHILE I COULD GO ON AND ON, I THINK MY POINT HAS BEEN MADE.

SPIRITUAL PILGRIM, WHILE YOU USED THE WORD "THINKER", I TAKE NO OFFENSE TO IT. IF ANYONE WOULD LIKE TO DISCUSS, OR DEBATE THIS POST, I WOULD BE GLAD TO TAKE IT A STEP FURTHER.
JIM.

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There are three concentric circles, the whole value is 7,7,7 when you see 666, it is not complete in any of the three realms, that shapes the beast it fails in the most important traits that makes the whole a whole. This is what Lucipher lack, consideration towards Michael and the Universal father.

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Paradise Pilgrim, I suspect you depression may stem from your not being able to get the UB and the Bible in good agreement. Well, if so, this is your lucky day! Here is a link to the Paramony, which does just that! :smile:

http://www.urantiabook.org/urantiabook/paramony/

I hope that helps... :wink:
Bro Dave
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 Post subject: Re: THE STAGE.
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If you have not already done so may I suggest reading "Foxes Book of Martyr's". It is a hard read because of the countless acts of barbaric treatment of the early Christains believers. It gives a really good historical overall view of the problems the early church believers encountered.

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(((Bro Dave))) So sorry. But when I first saw Jim's post I thought of exactly what Paradise Pilgrim first posted.

I came to the revelation that the number six hundred threescore and six was associated to King Soloman in I Kings 10:14. I have no doubt that referrence to 666 means "The Love of Money". Which relates well to Soloman. That verse seperates his Kingdom being prosperous and falling out from under him.

Relating to today's world: If you don't have the mark on your hand, (CASH) or on your forehead, (CREDIT) you cannot buy goods.
-------------

I think that Jim's little story about translating Nero's name three times and then adding the numeric values of the letters together is the theory that I myself find hard to swallow?


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 Post subject: HELLO EVERYONE.........
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I't must be remembered that the mark on the forehead and the mark on the hand was mentioned several times in the Bible, The earliest going back to the Old Testament. It did not mean a "literal mark". The mark on the forehead meant "Attitude"....the mark on the hand meant your "thoughts". Again, the mark on the forhead was your thoughts and attitude...the mark on the hand was a showing of your works and deeds....it was the JEWISH way to judge a person....by their works and thoughts. Also....I didnt just pick 3 convienent translations.....It had to be done that way exactly to understand the languages spoken. You have to remember the tongue of the author, and the translation to the Hebrew language.
Can it be that the #6 has a hidden value we have yet to understand....
Another Example.........196 papers in the UB.....
The Caligastia papers are numbered 66.
WE DO KNOW THAT MATH IS A PERFECT SCIENCE.

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