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 Post subject: Self Knowledge
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What's the first essential thing?
Faith is necessary, but not alone.
Many have faith, but do nothing.
Love? Not the first thing, but the last.

What is needed, then, to take the eternal journey?
Know thyself, for in the knowing,
All the impediments are made clear,
And they originate in the self.

I was thinking it might be good to remind ourselves that the UB is not a “how to” book.
We are given the enormous framework of the Father's universe, and the incredible support system for our ascension, and so much more. But how to get to Heaven? Sorry, but this is for us to work out. No amount of reading and study of any sacred book makes a person spiritual. Growth must be earned, and no better place to start than working on ourselves.

Good and wise men and woman through history have given us techniques, strategies, and insights into acquiring “objective” self knowledge. Do you know of any? If you care, please share here the people or events that have helped you see yourself as you are, not as you think you are.


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 Post subject: Re: Self Knowledge
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Very rightly said..!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Self Knowledge
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gizmo wrote:
Love? Not the first thing, but the last.


What is the meaning of this? Are you talking about human things or divine things?

(1118:4)  102:1.1It is literally true, "Human things must be known in order to be loved, but divine things must be loved in order to be known."


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gizmo wrote:
What's the first essential thing?
Faith is necessary, but not alone.
Many have faith, but do nothing.
Love? Not the first thing, but the last.

What is needed, then, to take the eternal journey?
Know thyself, for in the knowing,
All the impediments are made clear,
And they originate in the self.

I was thinking it might be good to remind ourselves that the UB is not a “how to” book.
We are given the enormous framework of the Father's universe, and the incredible support system for our ascension, and so much more. But how to get to Heaven? Sorry, but this is for us to work out. No amount of reading and study of any sacred book makes a person spiritual. Growth must be earned, and no better place to start than working on ourselves.

Good and wise men and woman through history have given us techniques, strategies, and insights into acquiring “objective” self knowledge. Do you know of any? If you care, please share here the people or events that have helped you see yourself as you are, not as you think you are.


I've been thinking about this post and revisiting it frequently as I consider an appropriate response based on my own experience. I think I understand you to be presenting the important concept of "self mastery". Here's a link to the 8 quotes which include that term (however, the concept itself is found throughout the entirety of the UB - especially as it relates to maturity, experience, wisdom, objectivity, ascendency, and the transcendence of self importance).

https://www.urantia.org/urantia-book/se ... &op=Search

I agree the UB is not a "how to book" if you mean a book of instructions and commandments and requirements and specific practices required of believers and faith children to attain spiritualization and growth of soul. However, the Papers do include the example of the Master and some very specific teachings related to personal growth and spiritualization that have proven amazingly effective at the transcendence of the material self in favor of the spiritual self and nature and connection within us each and all.

And, for myself anyway, the reading and study of the Revelation and contemplation and prayerful reflection and opening of heart and mind to the Spirit has been more than merely inspiring...it has resulted in specific and tangible changes in my motives and intentions and priorities in every day intersections of decision and choice and those have certainly changed my philosophy of living and reality perspective which have all combined to most assuredly change my outcomes...and my self mastery.

Papers 100-112 are particularly important to my own discovery of how the mortal mind and soul can transcend material limitations and self importance and completely changed my sense of belonging and connection. In my opinion faith IS action or it is not faith...but merely belief. Faith is the expression of relationship to God. Faith is far more complex and common an experience than is taught by any religion I know of...except in the Revelation!

8. Faith and Belief

101:8.1 (1114.5) Belief has attained the level of faith when it motivates life and shapes the mode of living. The acceptance of a teaching as true is not faith; that is mere belief. Neither is certainty nor conviction faith. A state of mind attains to faith levels only when it actually dominates the mode of living. Faith is a living attribute of genuine personal religious experience. One believes truth, admires beauty, and reverences goodness, but does not worship them; such an attitude of saving faith is centered on God alone, who is all of these personified and infinitely more.

101:8.2 (1114.6) Belief is always limiting and binding; faith is expanding and releasing. Belief fixates, faith liberates. But living religious faith is more than the association of noble beliefs; it is more than an exalted system of philosophy; it is a living experience concerned with spiritual meanings, divine ideals, and supreme values; it is God-knowing and man-serving. Beliefs may become group possessions, but faith must be personal. Theologic beliefs can be suggested to a group, but faith can rise up only in the heart of the individual religionist.


Last edited by fanofVan on Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:12 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Self Knowledge
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gizmo wrote:
What's the first essential thing?


I think the first essential thing is to love the Lord my God with all my heart and soul.

gizmo wrote:
Faith is necessary, but not alone.
Many have faith, but do nothing.


And the second essential thing is to love my brothers as God loves them.

gizmo wrote:
Love? Not the first thing, but the last.


Doesn't that make love the first thing and the last?

gizmo wrote:
What is needed, then, to take the eternal journey?
Know thyself, for in the knowing,
All the impediments are made clear,


Isn't it better to know the Father? And by knowing him, our imperfections are made clear in contrast to his perfection. If we compare ourselves to ourselves, or to others, we are comparing imperfection to imperfection, the blind leading the blind. To make imperfections clear, we need light, and that light comes from the Source of all Light who lives in our souls.

gizmo wrote:
And they originate in the self.


Yes, imperfections are part of nature and the human self is born from the dust of nature. The goal is to discover our divine nature, the Thought Adjuster who lives on the borderland consciousness of the soul. Practicing the presence of God, just like Jesus, is a sure-fire way to discovery.

(1093:2) 99:7.4  Man can never wisely decide temporal issues or transcend the selfishness of personal interests unless he meditates in the presence of the sovereignty of God and reckons with the realities of divine meanings and spiritual values.

(1127:4) 102:7.10 Of God, the most inescapable of all presences, the most real of all facts, the most living of all truths, the most loving of all friends, and the most divine of all values, we have the right to be the most certain of all universe experiences.

(2084:1) 195:10.1 Religion is only an exalted humanism until it is made divine by the discovery of the reality of the presence of God in personal experience.


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 Post subject: Re: Self Knowledge
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I think knowing God leads to self knowledge and self mastery and the best way to know God....according to the "how to" guidance of the UB is prayer. Or I should say begins with prayer. Prayer itself changes over time I have found as one becomes more comfortable and familiar with the presence of the Spirit within. God is not a long distance call. God is never not with us and within us. We are connected to God in so many ways according to the UB. God is "the other" within. We naturally associate the unexplainable to God. God creates a yearning and a hunger and a thirst....very real feelings and needs seeking fulfillment and nurturing....an urge and response cycle.

This is the source of faith and faith assurance and of truth and truth assurance. The I AM First Source and Center ministering to the I AM which is the personality and mind which is ME, in a feedback loop which creates and feeds soul. And does so no matter how ignorant we are or how false or primitive are our beliefs. This faith connection is far different as described in the UB than any other teaching I ever knew before. The more faith we have by this internal relationship, the more our actions reflect that faith and assurance and determine our choices and actions. We are designed, engineered, and built for this connection to Spirit and they are multiple connections to multiple Spirits of the Father, Mother, and Son.

The study of "self" in the UB is quite paradoxical and reminds me of the Eastern philosophies, especially the Zen disciplines. Self importance is the cause of most of the suffering in this life and world. The focus upon self is actually self destructive. He who would save him-self must lose him-self. To become the master of self is to make others the focus of self rather than focusing upon the self. The first shall be last and the last first. The most important serves the least important. To master oneself is to lose oneself in motivations and priorities of life.

140:8.27 (1583.1) The three apostles were shocked this afternoon when they realized that their Master’s religion made no provision for spiritual self-examination. All religions before and after the times of Jesus, even Christianity, carefully provide for conscientious self-examination. But not so with the religion of Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus’ philosophy of life is without religious introspection. The carpenter’s son never taught character building; he taught character growth, declaring that the kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed. But Jesus said nothing which would proscribe self-analysis as a prevention of conceited egotism.

143:2.2 (1609.3) At one of the evening conferences, Andrew asked Jesus: “Master, are we to practice self-denial as John taught us, or are we to strive for the self-control of your teaching? Wherein does your teaching differ from that of John?” Jesus answered: “John indeed taught you the way of righteousness in accordance with the light and laws of his fathers, and that was the religion of self-examination and self-denial. But I come with a new message of self-forgetfulness and self-control. I show to you the way of life as revealed to me by my Father in heaven.

143:2.3 (1609.4) “Verily, verily, I say to you, he who rules his own self is greater than he who captures a city. Self-mastery is the measure of man’s moral nature and the indicator of his spiritual development. In the old order you fasted and prayed; as the new creature of the rebirth of the spirit, you are taught to believe and rejoice. In the Father’s kingdom you are to become new creatures; old things are to pass away; behold I show you how all things are to become new. And by your love for one another you are to convince the world that you have passed from bondage to liberty, from death into life everlasting.

143:2.4 (1609.5) “By the old way you seek to suppress, obey, and conform to the rules of living; by the new way you are first transformed by the Spirit of Truth and thereby strengthened in your inner soul by the constant spiritual renewing of your mind, and so are you endowed with the power of the certain and joyous performance of the gracious, acceptable, and perfect will of God. Forget not—it is your personal faith in the exceedingly great and precious promises of God that ensures your becoming partakers of the divine nature. Thus by your faith and the spirit’s transformation, you become in reality the temples of God, and his spirit actually dwells within you. If, then, the spirit dwells within you, you are no longer bondslaves of the flesh but free and liberated sons of the spirit. The new law of the spirit endows you with the liberty of self-mastery in place of the old law of the fear of self-bondage and the slavery of self-denial.

I have found personally that one of the greatest of all the teachings in the UB which transform life is that it is our motive that is primarily changed by our faith and trust in God. It is our motive that is most in our own power to change and transform which leads to the transcendent experience of transferring the seat of our identity from the material self to the soul and spiritual self.

Our motive controls everything in our life. Why do we choose what we choose?? If we wish to make better choices and have better outcomes in this life, then we must only but certainly change our reasons and motives for the choices we make!! Motive determines intentions and priorities and relationships and decisions....every day, all day. ALL OUTCOMES are determined primarily by our MOTIVE in CHOOSING!

You may say the UB is not a how-to book. I must disagree. The how to is boldly and plainly and redundantly provided to us throughout the Revelation.

Pray....and commune with the Spirit within.

Make the love of God and love of all others your motive of living.

View the moment in the context of past and future - origins and destinies - for proper perspective in making choices today.

Trust the Lord and believe in the friendly universe with the faith assurance and truth assurance given by the Spirits within.

Fear not and be anxious for nothing!

Embrace uncertainty as the source of adventure.

Live loyally today and let the future take care of itself!


I call this the TADPOLE WAY!! It is found only within the Urantia Papers in total. Otherwise, I have found many parts and pieces of these teachings by many sources.

What I've always found most profound about the teachings is the one that assures us that no matter what we believe or disbelieve or know or do not know....still does the Spirit reside within and change us and grow soul and prepare us for the eternal adventure and so we may rest easy that our hope and ideals and aspirations are enough to assure our destiny and our legacy as God's beloved children. We are provided time and mercy to learn what knowledge is needed and to gain experiential wisdom as required to make our Circles and fuse with the Spirit! It is a very friendly universe after all!

Thanks for the topic and discussion.

Bradly 8)


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gizmo wrote:
I was thinking it might be good to remind ourselves that the UB is not a “how to” book.


In some ways I think it is. Take for instance Rodan's "Art of Living". There is plenty of information in those papers to help a person devise a balanced philosophy of living. There is also the example of the life of Jesus who perfected the art. Of course the Revelation is not a cookbook, but all the necessary ingredients are in it along with examples of how best to use them. Then there is also the explanation of how the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth and the Thought Adjuster conspire to help us, not to mention the angels, midwayers and a whole host of supermaterial friends.


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I agree the UB is not a "how to book" if you mean a book of instructions and commandments and requirements and specific practices required of believers and faith children to attain spiritualization and growth of soul. However, the Papers do include the example of the Master and some very specific teachings related to personal growth and spiritualization that have proven amazingly effective at the transcendence of the material self in favor of the spiritual self and nature and connection within us each and all.


Yes, and I am still plumbing the depths of it. Perhaps the "how" of it is not to be told but to be lived. Jesus adapted his teachings and urgings to each individual personality, aware of limitations and ignorance. He loved them all, as they were.

Quote:
The study of "self" in the UB is quite paradoxical and reminds me of the Eastern philosophies, especially the Zen disciplines. Self importance is the cause of most of the suffering in this life and world. The focus upon self is actually self destructive. He who would save him-self must lose him-self. To become the master of self is to make others the focus of self rather than focusing upon the self. The first shall be last and the last first. The most important serves the least important. To master oneself is to lose oneself in motivations and priorities of life.


You must sense this, it was the Eastern philosophies, and Zen, that informed my spiritual journey. And then years with a Gurdjieff group - "working on our selves". I believe what I learned and experienced in those years helps me digest and appreciate the UB. The "teachers" of that era of my life were human, and fallible, but they sparked my spiritual growth, and gave me techniques and perspectives that assist my growth, even today.

But the UB stands alone – an epochal revelation – and next to it the teachers of my past seem a little quaint now. I honor them, but I'm not sure this forum is a good place to go into detail about folks like Gurdjieff, Krishnamurti, and others.

Kat, you didn't like my poem? It's okay. It was meant to provoke thought, and it accomplished that!

But again, FanofVan, thank you for the references and insights. You are helping me form my personal “how to” of spiritual growth based on the UB.

And Sherya31, thanks for noticing me! Would like to learn more about you and your thoughts.


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gizmo - I am so happy for our compatibility and shared experiences in truth seeking, notably Jesusonian and Zen and Gurdjief and the UB and more points of commonality would not surprise me. Your voice here is like a comforting breeze which carries the distant fragrance of bygone memories of a familiar path through the garden of truth.

My philosophical baptism in Zen truly clarified and solidified the Jesusonian Gospel for my embrace as the guiding WAY and philosophy of living. The UB teaches that the Master was Eastern as well as and perhaps even more than Western in education, experience, and philosophy. Jesus grew up among caravaners and was an outfitter and supplier and harness/tack/pack saddle and equipment repairman.

He was an interpreter and experienced caravaner himself and even a caravan captain who traveled thousands of miles along the Silk Road between the Mediterranean and the Caspian sea. He was known far and wide by many from the East in addition to his trip to Rome as tutor to a well educated Indian youth.

It is my opinion that one may not truly appreciate the teachings of the Master or the UB without appreciation for Eastern philosophy. Jesus loved paradox and taught truth with questions. His frequent rebukes of the Apostles and his fearless courage in the daunting face of power and his great humor all remind me of so many tales of Zen masters and the Buddha. The Eastern lens of perspective is true.

Confoundingly Delightful!!!! Brilliantly Inspiring!!!! Comfortingly Familiar!!!

Enjoy these stories of the Master Son of Nebadon!!!

https://www.urantia.org/urantia-book/se ... &op=Search

8)


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fan, you are inspired! You remind me of Rumi, drunk on God's love and dancing wildly in the streets!

He that is my souls’ repose
Round my heart encircling goes,
Round my heart and soul of bliss
He encircling is.
Laughing from my earthy bed
Like a tree I lift my head,
For the Fount of Living mirth
Washes round my earth.
J. Rumi


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gizmo wrote:
Kat, you didn't like my poem? It's okay. It was meant to provoke thought, and it accomplished that!


I don't recall saying that. I asked what you meant by it, and when you didn't respond, I gave my understanding of it. Yes it did provoke thought.

When it comes to knowing one's self I think of this reference which highlight's what Jesus taught about it.

(67.6) 5:4.8 The Greek religion had a watchword “Know yourself”; the Hebrews centered their teaching on “Know your God”; the Christians preach a gospel aimed at a “knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ”; Jesus proclaimed the good news of “knowing God, and yourself as a son of God.” These differing concepts of the purpose of religion determine the individual’s attitude in various life situations and foreshadow the depth of worship and the nature of his personal habits of prayer. The spiritual status of any religion may be determined by the nature of its prayers.


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gizmo wrote:
Growth must be earned, and no better place to start than working on ourselves.


There was a time when I believed this, but now I realize that constantly thinking and analyzing myself is exactly the wrong way to think if my goal is to become selfless. Over time it has become clear to me that the less I think or worry about myself, and the more I think of others, the happier my life becomes. I can't help but think that the mantra to "know thyself" is no different than "finding myself". I'm not really interested in that. My interest is in knowing my Father now that I've found him.

When it comes to spiritual growth there has to be a good balance between the inner and outer worlds, spiritual nourishment and service contact. Spiritual nourishment is gained via a relationship with a divine personality. Service contact is gain via relationships with human personalities. That's all there is in the world really besides the pursuit of truth, beauty and goodness in one's life. Keeping busy with all that, there's no time for getting to know oneself, and it wouldn't matter since the self is always in a relationship, and it's the relationship that matters. Always working to find the best in a relationship, whether between persons or things is what causes growth because all true growth is unconscious; all we can do is provide favorable conditions.

(1000:3) 91:7.2 Jesus often took his apostles away by themselves for short periods to engage in meditation and prayer, but for the most part he kept them in service-contact with the multitudes. The soul of man requires spiritual exercise as well as spiritual nourishment.

(1097.4) 100:3.7 Man cannot cause growth, but he can supply favorable conditions. Growth is always unconscious, be it physical, intellectual, or spiritual. Love thus grows; it cannot be created, manufactured, or purchased; it must grow. Evolution is a cosmic technique of growth. Social growth cannot be secured by legislation, and moral growth is not had by improved administration. Man may manufacture a machine, but its real value must be derived from human culture and personal appreciation. Man’s sole contribution to growth is the mobilization of the total powers of his personality — living faith.


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gizmo wrote:
fan, you are inspired! You remind me of Rumi, drunk on God's love and dancing wildly in the streets!

He that is my souls’ repose
Round my heart encircling goes,
Round my heart and soul of bliss
He encircling is.
Laughing from my earthy bed
Like a tree I lift my head,
For the Fount of Living mirth
Washes round my earth.
J. Rumi



Such a compliment. My thanks to you. The fruits of the Spirit are universal and available to all and they certainly include happiness and joy and confidence and fearlessness! We are taught to be anxious for nothing and to trust God with our souls and destiny and to trust the world to the Most Highs. We are taught it is a friendly universe that thrives upon the love of its creators and rulers and administrators and citizens one for another and one for all others and by all others for each other and for all others. This universe is based on the economy of love. The more we give the more there is and the more we get. This is good news!!

We are to be joyful as beloved children in a universe of eternal adventures and progress. If one truly believes this reality, then we are immediately blessed by contentment and the end of all fear and anxiety. Our suffering becomes temporal and a reminder of others and a path to serve them with the kindness, mercy, patience, and love which we feel and know to be true. "For the Fount of Living mirth Washes round my earth"!!!!!! Indeed.

The Spirit encircles the Souls of Bliss!! The Tadpole Way!

:idea: :!: :wink: 8)


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In terms of self-Knowledge, I believe that the fact of human individuals, every human individual, receiving the fragment of the First Source and Center, is to know that in actuality, my life in terms of human experience is the preparation of the soul to be like the First Source. Our actual post-Ultimate selves are drawn from the Universal Father.

tUB wrote:
102:7.10 Of God, the most inescapable of all presences, the most real of all facts, the most living of all truths, the most loving of all friends, and the most divine of all values, we have the right to be the most certain of all universe experiences.



And how many times have I been able to convict myself of "playing with others' feelings", or intentionally remembering what happened according to my own emotions or belief. I have the sovereign right to trust my own mind and my own experience. Let the Adjuster-record stand and every person has the choice of whether to believe in the memory of their own universe experiences.

_________________
to the Underlaying Unity of All Life so that the Voice of Intuition may guide Us closer to Our Common Keeper


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Welcome back Stephen. Your post reminds me of this reference:

(1779.4) 160:4.12 Train your memory to hold in sacred trust the strength-giving and worth-while episodes of life, which you can recall at will for your pleasure and edification. Thus build up for yourself and in yourself reserve galleries of beauty, goodness, and artistic grandeur. But the noblest of all memories are the treasured recollections of the great moments of a superb friendship. And all of these memory treasures radiate their most precious and exalting influences under the releasing touch of spiritual worship.

If one is perpetually on the lookout for truth, beauty and goodness in one's relationships with others in order to hold them in sacred trust, then there isn't much time to be thinking of getting to know oneself. A superb friendship is something worth cultivating, and oh how difficult that is to do.


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