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While we need not seek prophecy, we will encounter it on the Mansion Worlds, in the form of the Imports of Time.

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28:6.11 (315.4) These time evaluators are also the secret of prophecy; they portray the element of time which will be required in the completion of any undertaking, and they are just as dependable as indicators as are the frandalanks and chronoldeks of other living orders. The Gods foresee, hence foreknow; but the ascendant authorities of the universes of time must consult the Imports of Time to be able to forecast events of the future.


They predict the future; one could even refer to them, colloquially, as fortune tellers.


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SEla_Kelly wrote:
Look I am awful sorry to be off and on like this, but we have been given the gift of epochal revelation, and along with this gift is the understanding of mankind's responsibilities, and certain mandates of the grand universe, that ascenders are to fulfill. Why then, must you seek after prophecies? I simply pray that your children become wise enough, in their individuating understandings, of how they may fulfill such mandates, inevitably.

Agon, Brad just shared this:
16:6.8 [3.] Worship—the spiritual domain of the reality of religious experience, the personal realization of divine fellowship, the recognition of spirit values, the assurance of eternal survival, the ascent from the status of servants of God to the joy and liberty of the sons of God. This is the highest insight of the cosmic mind, the reverential and worshipful form of the cosmic discrimination.


Prophets and prophesy is not for the believer, faith child, or truth seeker Stephen. And few if any "seek after prophesy". The purpose of prophesy I think is primarily to awaken those who appear blind to reality and too distracted by materialism and self interest to embrace truth, beauty, and goodness. Prophets are moral alarms ringing the bells of a need to awaken to reality. It is not so mystical or mysterious to discern the crop of the coming harvest - we reap what we sow. And we have a million years of historical sowing and reaping. To have the vision and wisdom to weigh the probable outcomes and trajectories of social behavior and priorities is a very interesting study in probabilities and standard deviation and covariance and means - quite logical and scientific really.

Prophets are most often society's idealists with a platform and public voice!! They are noticed first by those who share the idealism and vision and concerns of the prophet/artist who gives voice to the reasoned and reasonable portrayal of warning. Prophets are like lighthouses whose mission is to warn the social ship of the dangerous rocks which may sink ships. Prophets are God's tools. Many, perhaps, are corpsmen and women of the Reservists who provide critical service to humanity's epochal progress.

Or so I understand the UB to teach.

Stephen...stop ignoring questions....what mandates? Inevitable?

44:2.2 There are seven groups of the heavenly reproducers, and I will attempt to illustrate their work by the following classification:

1. The singers—harmonists who reiterate the specific harmonies of the past and interpret the melodies of the present. But all of this is effected on the morontia level.
2. The color workers—those artists of light and shade you might call sketchers and painters, artists who preserve passing scenes and transient episodes for future morontia enjoyment.
3. The light picturizers—the makers of the real semispirit-phenomena preservations of which motion pictures would be a very crude illustration.
4. The historic pageanteers—those who dramatically reproduce the crucial events of universe records and history.
5. The prophetic artists—those who project the meanings of history into the future.
6. The life-story tellers—those who perpetuate the meaning and significance of life experience. The projection of present personal experiences into future attainment values.
7. The administrative enactors—those who depict the significance of governmental philosophy and administrative technique, the celestial dramatists of sovereignty.

44:2.10 Very often and effectively the heavenly reproducers collaborate with the reversion directors in combining memory recapitulation with certain forms of mind rest and personality diversion. Before the morontia conclaves and spirit assemblies these reproducers sometimes associate themselves in tremendous dramatic spectacles representative of the purpose of such gatherings. I recently witnessed such a stupendous presentation in which more than one million actors produced a succession of one thousand scenes.

91:7.2 The great religious teachers and the prophets of past ages were not extreme mystics. They were God-knowing men and women who best served their God by unselfish ministry to their fellow mortals....

92:5.16 The future of Urantia will doubtless be characterized by the appearance of teachers of religious truth—the Fatherhood of God and the fraternity of all creatures. But it is to be hoped that the ardent and sincere efforts of these future prophets will be directed less toward the strengthening of interreligious barriers and more toward the augmentation of the religious brotherhood of spiritual worship among the many followers of the differing intellectual theologies which so characterize Urantia of Satania.

Bonita and Stephen have very bizarre concepts of prophets and prophecy and appear blind to the teachings of the meaning, value, and great social benefit such voices and leaders bring us....and also impose a very narrow minded definition of both prophet and prophesy.


92:5.1 In evolutionary religion, the gods are conceived to exist in the likeness of man's image; in revelatory religion, men are taught that they are God's sons—even fashioned in the finite image of divinity; in the synthesized beliefs compounded from the teachings of revelation and the products of evolution, the God concept is a blend of:

1. The pre-existent ideas of the evolutionary cults.
2. The sublime ideals of revealed religion.
3. The personal viewpoints of the great religious leaders, the prophets and teachers of mankind.

92:5.5 Most great religious epochs have been inaugurated by the life and teachings of some outstanding personality; leadership has originated a majority of the worth-while moral movements of history. And men have always tended to venerate the leader, even at the expense of his teachings; to revere his personality, even though losing sight of the truths which he proclaimed. And this is not without reason; there is an instinctive longing in the heart of evolutionary man for help from above and beyond. This craving is designed to anticipate the appearance on earth of the Planetary Prince and the later Material Sons. On Urantia man has been deprived of these superhuman leaders and rulers, and therefore does he constantly seek to make good this loss by enshrouding his human leaders with legends pertaining to supernatural origins and miraculous careers.

:!: :idea: 8)


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SEla_Kelly wrote:
So now we understand that anyone who wants to become a prophet, to speak the Word of God, must become erstwhile a servant, and later a creator/parent. As a servant, you must learn to practice doing good in silence/peace/privacy.


I would agree that true service is like goodness; it's unconscious. The left hand should not know what the right hand is doing. Is it possible that a true prophet is not actually conscious of being a prophet, that he or she is simply sharing a personal experience with truth, beauty and goodness?

(1577.5) 140:6.11 When Jesus heard this, he said: “Be willing, then, to take up your responsibilities and follow me. Do your good deeds in secret; when you give alms, let not the left hand know what the right hand does.


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SEla_Kelly wrote:
Right you want me to say that there are modern day prophets, even after I told you that John was the last of them?



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90:2.9 (988.5) Ever and anon, true prophets and teachers arose to denounce and expose shamanism. Even the vanishing red man had such a prophet within the past hundred years, the Shawnee Tenskwatawa, who predicted the eclipse of the sun in 1806 and denounced the vices of the white man. Many true teachers have appeared among the various tribes and races all through the long ages of evolutionary history. And they will ever continue to appear to challenge the shamans or priests of any age who oppose general education and attempt to thwart scientific progress.


underline is mine....btw if what i read about him as a child was correct the one-eyed prophet also foresaw the new madrid earthquake.


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This topic was begun as a study of the UB itself as a source of prophesy. I like that concept. Remember that prophesy incorporates a projection of probabilities of future outcomes based on the sowing of choices and priorities and the future reaping of that which has been and is now being sown.

The UB does a marvelous job of providing that long arc of history and inevitable and epochal trajectory to help us identify the meaning and importance of our own decisions in these moments of this time but also to gauge and measure and project society's position, direction, arc, trajectory, momentum, velocity, and relative progress. Those with such knowledge and some wisdom and discernment should be able to predict and project much of what happens next in our world.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist or an oracle or shaman to see that which troubles us most and that which glimmers with opportunity....and those who shine with the inner light who bear the fruit of the Spirit and those blinded by ignorance and prejudice.

Who do we choose as our personal heroes? Who carries the torch of our ideals? Who sees the road ahead with clarity?

The UB certainly was given us to help us see the road ahead...……..those who doubt and despair need prophets the most I think. And they are the most likely to seek them out and listen. The self satisfied are blind and deaf to all but themselves I think.

Bradly


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Makalu wrote:

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90:2.9 (988.5) Ever and anon, true prophets and teachers arose to denounce and expose shamanism. Even the vanishing red man had such a prophet within the past hundred years, the Shawnee Tenskwatawa, who predicted the eclipse of the sun in 1806 and denounced the vices of the white man. Many true teachers have appeared among the various tribes and races all through the long ages of evolutionary history. And they will ever continue to appear to challenge the shamans or priests of any age who oppose general education and attempt to thwart scientific progress.


underline is mine....btw if what i read about him as a child was correct the one-eyed prophet also foresaw the new madrid earthquake.


Wikipedia states Tenskwatawa began as the town drunk and became a prophet after what sounds to me like a near death experience during a drunken stupor. It's interesting that he was mostly a political leader. Do you think the reference above is equating true prophets with true teachers? Do prophets simply shine light on the "better way" so others can see, as a form of teaching?


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katroofjebus wrote:
Makalu wrote:

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90:2.9 (988.5) Ever and anon, true prophets and teachers arose to denounce and expose shamanism. Even the vanishing red man had such a prophet within the past hundred years, the Shawnee Tenskwatawa, who predicted the eclipse of the sun in 1806 and denounced the vices of the white man. Many true teachers have appeared among the various tribes and races all through the long ages of evolutionary history. And they will ever continue to appear to challenge the shamans or priests of any age who oppose general education and attempt to thwart scientific progress.


underline is mine....btw if what i read about him as a child was correct the one-eyed prophet also foresaw the new madrid earthquake.


Wikipedia states Tenskwatawa began as the town drunk and became a prophet after what sounds to me like a near death experience during a drunken stupor. It's interesting that he was mostly a political leader. Do you think the reference above is equating true prophets with true teachers? Do prophets simply shine light on the "better way" so others can see, as a form of teaching?


yes he was a big drunk that had a sudden conversion experience...i think his brother tecumseh was the political leader and he was mostly spiritual and cultural though for what that's worth. no i dont think it's equating teachers with prophets. prophets have a transcendent vision/gift.


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That's one approach. As a newer student of the UB and new to this group, it's probably as good a solution as any. But, IMO, the seasoned readers and mods here need to do better to contain his nonsense.


I'm new here too, but a seasoned reader who lurked in these forums, and others, for a few years.

I applaud the openness we have here. It's the first thing that should be tried, and it looks like it's working. I spent years as a moderator of a forum with international (but English speaking) members, and openness failed. New members had to write an essay explaining why they wanted to join. So moderators voted in or out. All kinds of things were tried to keep the inflammatories out - a war of words that sent me packing after a few years.

I feel this forum has great potential. There are the "teachers", like Agon, who don't study the UB, but interpret it in personal ways nearly unintelligible, but totally subjective. They are usually emotionally sensitive to any skepticism. Or totally oblivious, just plodding along. But it's not the norm, and there are so many intelligent, questioning and creative posters here. And I feel lucky there is a fanofVan around to apply the truth serum to those who deserve it.

And I think we have a moderator with tolerance and experience I can trust. So let's get to work!


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gizmo wrote:

I feel this forum has great potential. There are the "teachers", like Agon, who don't study the UB,


Are you referring to me? On what basis do you claim know my (or anyone on this forum) study habits? FYI I have read the UB nearly 4 times, cover to cover, and have completed a number of formal study courses offered by the Urantia Foundation, both in person and virtual.


gizmo wrote:
but interpret it in personal ways nearly unintelligible, but totally subjective.


Um. What? Back this up with a quote of mine if you are, indeed, referring to me. (This sounds more like SeLa_Kelly).

gizmo wrote:
They are usually emotionally sensitive to any skepticism. Or totally oblivious, just plodding along.


Why are you being so dismissive of a fellow UB student here (whoever it is you are referring to)? You haven't been posting here long. Perhaps you'd like to open your mind a bit and try to understand your fellows before judging them.


gizmo wrote:
But it's not the norm, and there are so many intelligent, questioning and creative posters here. And I feel lucky there is a fanofVan around to apply the truth serum to those who deserve it.


Agreed.

gizmo wrote:
And I think we have a moderator with tolerance and experience I can trust. So let's get to work!


Agreed.


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Originally I wanted to just point out one thing in the Urantia Book that later turned out to be true.

But since the conversation has evolved but remains within the limits of the topic, I'll throw in my two cents (maybe a whole dollar. lol).

First what is a prophet? The most obvious is one who foretells of future events with a degree of accuracy. That skill in speaking future events can be both from calculation or with communication with celestial entities. Prophecies can as we know be both inevitable or conditional. For this post, I'll stick to people who have communication with the divine.

So... is the Christian Bible and the Jewish Torah/Tanakh written by prophets? The answer is "yes but..." The UB frequently quotes the Bible confirming that the authors or the people they speak of in the narratives had communication with the divine. However, the Bible is not the inerrant word of God because it contains fictional narratives and questionable morality. You can say that the Bible is inspired of God because the authors had moments of revelation, but God's guiding finger was not with the authors during the whole writing process.

I personally view the Urantia Book the same way I view the Bible, a flawed text but containing profound truths. You certainly are welcome to disagree with me, and if you do, we can discuss what I view as flaws in the skeptics corner part of the forum.

Now, are there people today who communicate with the celestials and are hence prophets? If we are all 100% honest here, nobody can say for sure yes or no. Most mainstream Christian church leaders are reluctant to label themselves prophets because they don't know for sure if God is speaking directly to them and reserve the right to be wrong and to not put themselves on pedestals. Some on the other hand, show no such reservations and appoint themselves prophets even though most don't foretell future events. They only tell what they view as profound truths (is marriage advice from your pastor a prophecy?). Some go so far as to write new scriptures such as Joseph Smith. The value of these scriptures is very subjective. Some go as far as foretelling end dates and getting them spectacularly wrong such as Charles Taze Russell and William Miller (of which the UB has unfortunate links to. Dr. Sadler was a Seventh Day Adventist earlier in his life)

Some Christians believe in personal revelation and hence personal prophecy. This means that God speaks to them but only for them. The revelation is meaningless for anyone else. Some Christians believe they are prophets simply by preaching the gospel. They are prophets by extension that they have read the Bible and preach it.

Do other religions have their own prophets? The UB most certainly suggests the case. However, here is where I see a misunderstanding between mortals and the celestials. Prophets of all kinds of persuasions have contradicting messages coming from the celestials. Could it be that the celestials are not speaking in plain language? Perhaps it is similar to a poor signal when you hear voices over static on old radios?

Anyway, that's what I think. Would love to read if you agree with me or not.


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William,
I think you've articulate the issue very well; explaining the different instances of prophesy and how they tend to be perceived. I agree with you. Your post is just what this thread needed, because I think there were divergent views of the definition of 'prophet' going on. So thank you for your post.


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Agon D. Onter wrote:
William,
I think you've articulate the issue very well; explaining the different instances of prophesy and how they tend to be perceived. I agree with you. Your post is just what this thread needed, because I think there were divergent views of the definition of 'prophet' going on. So thank you for your post.


My pleasure.

I did not get into the concept of false prophets. For UB readers they are just plain liars. Some Christians on the other hand say demonic/satanic forces are at work through what they call false prophets, teachers and Antichrists.

I think the celestials are deeply offended with the existence of these charlatans. But calling these people false requires a degree of caution because there might be kernels of truth within their sermons.


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Agon, yes, I mistook you for "Stephen", and I apologize. I'll be more careful. I enjoy your posts, and the thoughtfulness you show in your posts. Patience, indeed.


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Okay. Thank you.


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First what is a prophet? The most obvious is one who foretells of future events with a degree of accuracy. That skill in speaking future events can be both from calculation or with communication with celestial entities.


it was posted before but in the papers true prophetic vision is defined as a superpsychologic presentiment

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91:7.3 (1000.4) Religious ecstasy is permissible when resulting from sane antecedents, but such experiences are more often the outgrowth of purely emotional influences than a manifestation of deep spiritual character. Religious persons must not regard every vivid psychologic presentiment and every intense emotional experience as a divine revelation or a spiritual communication. Genuine spiritual ecstasy is usually associated with great outward calmness and almost perfect emotional control. But true prophetic vision is a superpsychologic presentiment. Such visitations are not pseudo hallucinations, neither are they trancelike ecstasies.


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