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That sounds a little incredible, I agree. But what about conscience as one's emotional/moral reservoir? You have these ideas moral principles that go into the likening of one's conscience, and although I am not trying to claim that the conscience is the same as you know, "Adjuster morality", anything like that, you can say that past experiences during your life helped you to establish this emotional fortitude of human conscience, and beyond that, if you go beyond conscience in order to act wisely, in wise fashion, you find the goal, to open to the full range of emotionality that you may find within your human form. You can say that you possess the ability of moral restraint, but to wit if you do not express every emotion, master every emotion, and activate the 48 prepersonality traits of intelligent Satania-series life, you are still operating within a limited set of emotions. Remember, the Adjuster has practise on knowing patterns that are very similar to the human tabernacle. You can forge the new patterns, or use that conscience momentum of past experience to keep conitunuing the good efforts. Well, but you cannot say that you are achieving the superconscious revelations unless you find the full labour, to empty your physical gifts each day, and to find rest, to reabsorb the energy of preemotion, and to establish that moral foundation of superconsciousness, "the character of conscience".

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katroofjebus wrote:
I realize the dictionary definition of "presentiment" centers predominantly on foreboding intuitions of future unpleasantries, but I don't think that's the emphasis in the reference under consideration. I believe the word can also refer to a "sixth sense", the faculty of being aware of something beyond the bounds of normal perception. At lease "sixth sense" is offered as a synonym for presentiment. In the reference cited the word is used in relation to emotional experiences falsely assumed to be spiritual communications as well as real and true prophetic visions. By "prophetic vision" it seems to me they are referring to visions like the two references I previously posted, not necessarily visions of future events, but events beyond the visionary's current point in time and space.

The reference again:
(1000.4) 91:7.3 Religious ecstasy is permissible when resulting from sane antecedents, but such experiences are more often the outgrowth of purely emotional influences than a manifestation of deep spiritual character. Religious persons must not regard every vivid psychologic presentiment and every intense emotional experience as a divine revelation or a spiritual communication. Genuine spiritual ecstasy is usually associated with great outward calmness and almost perfect emotional control. But true prophetic vision is a superpsychologic presentiment. Such visitations are not pseudo hallucinations, neither are they trancelike ecstasies.

I think this reference comes close to what I'm trying to describe:
(2078.8 ) 195:7.5 The realities and values of spiritual progress are not a “psychologic projection” — a mere glorified daydream of the material mind. Such things are the spiritual forecasts of the indwelling Adjuster, the spirit of God living in the mind of man. And let not your dabblings with the faintly glimpsed findings of “relativity” disturb your concepts of the eternity and infinity of God. And in all your solicitation concerning the necessity for self-expression do not make the mistake of failing to provide for Adjuster-expression, the manifestation of your real and better self.

Makalu wrote:
i'm not reading "must not regard every" as "may regard some" in the quote there, even though there are experiences that conjoin the psychological with the spiritual like conversion, i cant think of any also conjoined with a vivid psychologic presentiment.
.

In regards to conversion, didn't Paul's include a vision of Jesus on the Damascus road which he interpreted as a presentiment, or vision, of his new apostolic work?

(2091.10) 196:2.1 The Apostle Paul later on transformed this new gospel into Christianity, a religion embodying his own theologic views and portraying his own personal experience with the Jesus of the Damascus road.


eh well i'm not willing to equate a psychological presentiment with the Adjusters spiritual forecast anymore than i'm willing to equate prophets with prophecy...but suit yourself :-)


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Okay you are going to far: seeking prophecy. You are seeking within the psychological presentiment to find, rather than prophecy, the moral imperative of the human individual (actually of yourself), but this condition is usually distorted during expression. Even when you open your mouth to express your psychological presentiment, it will be riddled with demands and interpolative language. You need to be self-forgetting in order to clear the dross that stands between your consciousness (third source consciousness), and the consciousness of the first source. It is also hard to explain, because this idea of discerning the Gestallt view, the timeless view of individual personality, is riddled with games and tests and conjecture. A true gestallt impression does not occur in an office, next to a chart and with a qualified professional; rather it occur during your experiences. It is the preeminent impulse of what you would have liked to do in that situation, as your true self.

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Back to the original topic...UB contents that have been or will be confirmed by the discovery of science and technology and the historical record, here's a link to a couple of topics. Thanks to Makalu for his research:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5378

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=5667

The UB teaches that its presentation of history will stand the tests of time. In this way it will become prophetic and more frequently referenced.


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The eventuation of scientific usage is not prophecy. The validation of theory is not prophecy. Even the systemic goals that would be perscribed according to the evolution of settled spheres, are just the guidelines of the current spiritual administration. This requires work, and a firm connection to wisdom, and like you said! (or agreed with me!!): the facts of the grand universe are revelatory, not prophetic! The prophecies are final (they from the house of Jacob, Moses, and Abraham have all worked out!), and you best believe that the Latin Philosophers of the Enlightenment Era, "succeeded the prophets"! Now we have more requirement: not only to believe in the Word/Pattern of God('s Son), but to acknolwedge/understand how this has been brought into materialisation/fruition: we must explain rationally and for you to continue to insist that scientific validation constitutes prophecy, but you are working with a religion of fear, always emotionally hinged without assurance: what is the moral imperative in any moment. It would be too much for a single human individual to exemplify the moral imperative; households exemplify that better, a token of culture.

Okay so maybe you do not understand the moral imperative, since Immanuel Kant explained it so well philosophically, but you do not really have a true example of one who follows the moral imperative. Well, I say Mary, Jesus' Mother, exemplifies the moral imperative, with her recommendation to the servants at the wedding at Canaa: "whatever my son says (reveals), that do." If it is revealed to you by the father fragment, you must try to do that, and that also according to your own sense of duty/reason? Those opportunities to serve, will help your nature to become like the father (the first source) who serves all. And if I could explain, despite any imperfect understanding, but Mary came to trust in Jesus as the father of her household. This what I think, that when the prophecies passed into the heart of Jesus, he fulfilled them according to his father's will, and in this sense I see progress in the life of the Supreme Being, indicative of the sense that fathers of households (or householders), consider themselves responsible for the choices the members of their individual household makes/ will make. And now we know that all of this life on Urantia is not simply the fulfillment of God's prophecy, but actually the fulfillment/eventuation/fruition to the real choices that human individuals make.

That is what you need to realise in the civilized era: the prophets were killed. Jesus taught the followers of John how to avoid the same fate as the Baptist: he adopted his followers and taught them how to avoid political heresay/conflict. He taught us how we are to raise our households, not "as prophets" but "as fatehrs". IN that sense, you may love your rivals better, in the hopes that all citizens of Urantia may become finalitors. Again, the prophecy of Urantia is final, but the real choices of every son of man, every Urantia citizen, must be provided for in a finite (cosmic) economy of the grand universe. If you could know the mind of God the First Source who is omniscient, perchance, you could count the total number of Mystery Monitors that have happened to indwell the minds of mortal men; but such revelations indicate the obsurdity in the relevence/usefulness in the minds of men. But that is the truth: the numbers game. How can we, in this generation, increase the overall % of finalitorship, and through this year by year the quality of life on Urantia. This is a pragmatic goal not a prophetic one.

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Stephen writes: "The validation of theory is not prophecy." And: "Jesus taught the followers of John how to avoid the same fate as the Baptist: he adopted his followers and taught them how to avoid political heresay/conflict."

Horse Feathers....the UB does not present "theories" but the facts of reality to reduce mortal confusions and eliminate the errors of mortal science and history and cosmology. I agree the revealed facts of reality are not truly prophesy, however, that is the subject of this very topic based on the author's perspective!! The first line in the opening of the topic by William says: "I put prophecy in parenthesis because it's not an event foretold but rather a fact stated by the UB and years later a discovery confirmed it. My guess as a skeptic is that whoever wrote the UB were very intelligent individuals and one of their theories proved correct." Generations in the future that find the UB will be amazed by everything printed in the UB in 1955 that was not discovered or verified until much later.

And how many disciples and Apostles were murdered for heresy Stephen? Many. The Romans slaughtered Christian martyr's. John was not the last by any means.


Last edited by fanofVan on Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:09 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Stephen,
What do you mean by this statement: " How can we, in this generation, increase the overall % of finalitorship, and through this year by year the quality of life on Urantia."

You realize that there are no Finaliters on Urantia; nor will there ever be.

Quote:
27:0.11 (298.11) Not until the ascending pilgrims actually attain Paradise residence do they come under the direct influence of these supernaphim, and then they pass through a training experience under the direction of these angels in the reverse order of their naming. That is, you enter upon your Paradise career under the tutelage of the instigators of rest and, after successive seasons with the intervening orders, finish this training period with the conductors of worship. Thereupon are you ready to begin the endless career of a finaliter.


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27:7.8 (305.1) After the attainment of the supreme satisfaction of the fullness of worship, you are qualified for admission to the Corps of the Finality. The ascendant career is well-nigh finished, and the seventh jubilee prepares for celebration. The first jubilee marked the mortal agreement with the Thought Adjuster when the purpose to survive was sealed; the second was the awakening in the morontia life; the third was the fusion with the Thought Adjuster; the fourth was the awakening in Havona; the fifth celebrated the finding of the Universal Father; and the sixth jubilee was the occasion of the Paradise awakening from the final transit slumber of time. The seventh jubilee marks entrance into the mortal finaliter corps and the beginning of the eternity service. The attainment of the seventh stage of spirit realization by a finaliter will probably signalize the celebration of the first of the jubilees of eternity.


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You who know of assurance so well will have to provide that, the reasonable probability of being an ascender (finalitor), through an experiencial or rational basis. Every generation, even in the rational/philosophical knowledge and experiencial proofs, I seek that type of edification. That is why I say, "Look at Enoch, or one without name and number." (Book of Enoch "And the righteous and elect shall be without number before Him for ever") or "Look what John Mark did, a mighty messenger." (Book of Urantia IV 177:1.1 "Jesus warned the lad not to become discouraged by impending events and assured him he would live to become a mighty messenger of the kingdom.") I live on Urantia with finalitors, ones who will become that, and I witness the emergence of the Supreme Being, even if I cannot offer this to you as a valid claim of my own. I really know people like them.

Every human life (soul) faces the trial of their own lifetime, and therefore it is not unreasonable to suggest, that even though this may be a very small %, that generation and generation the % should increase, and year by year so too are the experiencial proofs offered with increasing validity, better rational assurance of its real probability: that such a man is truly an ascender, or will truly become the son of the first source and center.

Even so, this is not the post-ultimate assurance; you're correct. It is the faith that others have in you.

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Last edited by SEla_Kelly on Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:59 am +0000, edited 3 times in total.

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SEla_Kelly wrote:
You who know of assurance so well will have to provide that, the reasonable probability of being an ascender (finalitor), through an experiencial or rational basis. Every generation, even in the rational/philosophical knowledge and experiencial proofs, I seek that type of edification. That is why I say, "Look at Enoch, or one without name and number." or "Look what John Mark did, a Mighty Messenger." I live on Urantia with finalitors, ones who will become that, and I witness the emergence of the Supreme Being, even if I cannot offer this to you as a valid claim of my own. I really know people like them.


You do not know any finaliters. Nor are you one or ever been one despite your prior and many claims.

John Mark was not a Mighty Messenger. Jesus said he would be one...long in the future.

22:2.3 (245.3) Every ascendant mortal of insurrectionary experience who functions loyally in the face of rebellion is eventually destined to become a Mighty Messenger of the superuniverse service. Likewise is any ascendant creature who effectively prevents such upheavals of error, evil, or sin; for action designed to prevent rebellion or to effect higher types of loyalty in a universe crisis is regarded as of even greater value than loyalty in the face of actual rebellion.

Enoch was not One Without Name or Number.

15:10.12 (178.12) The remaining three orders, Mighty Messengers, Those High in Authority, and Those without Nameand Number, are glorified ascendant mortals. The first of these orders came up through the ascendant regime and passed through Havona in the days of Grandfanda. Having attained Paradise, they were mustered into the Corps of the Finality, embraced by the Paradise Trinity, and subsequently assigned to the supernal service of the Ancients of Days. As a class, these three orders are known as Trinitized Sons of Attainment, being of dual origin but now of Trinity service. Thus was the executive branch of the superuniverse government enlarged to include the glorified and perfected children of the evolutionary worlds.

More lies, falsification, misrepresentations, and claims which directly contradict the Revelation. Sigh....

:roll:


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