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 Post subject: One confirmed "prophecy"
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I put prophecy in parenthesis because it's not an event foretold but rather a fact stated by the UB and years later a discovery confirmed it. My guess as a skeptic is that whoever wrote the UB were very intelligent individuals and one of their theories proved correct.

Here it is off the UB Wikipedia page:

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The only apparent anticipation of science the book has made, in Gardner's opinion, is that it says the magnetic sense that homing pigeons possess is "not wholly wanting as a conscious possession by mankind." In 1980, a British zoologist, Robin Baker, published evidence that humans have a limited magnetic sense


And here is the quote from the UB this is most likely referring to:

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34:4:13 (378.7) These creature creations are duplicated on down through the universe to the individual planets and, in conjunction with the magnetic forces of the worlds, so activate the hosts of microscopic bodies in the animal organism that these direction cells ever point north and south.


Despite my skepticism, this is fascinating stuff! On another note, carrier pigeons are also referenced in the UB though not in relation to this confirmed discovery:

Quote:
66:5:6 (746.4) It was in these days that carrier pigeons were first used, being taken on long journeys for the purpose of sending messages or calls for help.


Again:

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74:2:3 (829.5) And on that day there was great excitement and joy throughout Eden as the runners went in great haste to the rendezvous of the carrier pigeons assembled from near and far, shouting: “Let loose the birds; let them carry the word that the promised Son has come.” Hundreds of believer settlements had faithfully, year after year, kept up the supply of these home-reared pigeons for just such an occasion.


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Gardner's opinions are only that.

But he does have more than an opinion....he also has an agenda.

The fact is that there are many evidences of an empirical and factual nature discovered since its publication that provide support for it's historical claims....and one day those will accumulate into quite a compelling and credible body of evidence for taking the UB seriously.

But for those who require proof of its claims to depend upon the truths contained within, the Papers will disappoint and frustrate such demands. Gardner remains so disappointed.


:roll:

For a different opinion....and agenda....

http://www.ubannotated.com


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fanofVan wrote:
Gardner's opinions are only that.

But he does have more than an opinion....he also has an agenda.

The fact is that there are many evidences of an empirical and factual nature discovered since its publication that provide support for it's historical claims....and one day those will accumulate into quite a compelling and credible body of evidence for taking the UB seriously.

But for those who require proof of its claims to depend upon the truths contained within, the Papers will disappoint and frustrate such demands. Gardner remains so disappointed.


Two things I want to address; one is that I would hope you welcome a confirmation of the science written in the UB. I did not highlight any criticism of the science as that was not my intention. I mention that I'm a skeptic only to say that I need more confirmation and this is a good step forward.

Second, Martin Gardner was (he passed away in 2010) the kind of person the UB is supposed to appeal to. If you look at his Wikipedia page he believed in the religion of personal experience. He also spent much of his life debunking pseudo science similar to how our guy (as readers) Dr. Sadler did debunking mediums.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Gardner


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I'm beginning to think that it's possible for skepticism to become a quasi-worshipped sort of religious fetish.

I hope I'm wrong.


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I am glad for whatever it might be that brings this gift into the hands of truth seekers and every confirmation of fact and truth which brings assurance of God's love to all.

But to nod/Enno's point, the difference between finaliter and agondonter is not so small. I think the pride of the skeptic is an interesting conundrum...for the skeptic anyway.

8)


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William S. wrote:
I mention that I'm a skeptic only to say that I need more confirmation and this is a good step forward.


I don't see anything wrong with honest skepticism. It's like honest doubt that comes from an attempt to close the gap between science and religion, the outer world and the inner. It's evidence of an inquiring and logical mind that's not given to fanciful flights of groundless irrational ideas. Of course there are different kinds and levels of skepticism, some are so chronic and trite they become self-limiting and negative, which is detrimental. Jesus permitted honest doubts. The apostle Thomas was a good example of someone with honest doubts; he had a scientific, questioning and analytic mind. There's nothing wrong with that. Honest doubts are the ideas one is still working on before depositing them in the bank of spiritual assurance.

(1561.1) 139:8.1 Thomas was the eighth apostle, and he was chosen by Philip. In later times he has become known as “doubting Thomas,” but his fellow apostles hardly looked upon him as a chronic doubter. True, his was a logical, skeptical type of mind, but he had a form of courageous loyalty which forbade those who knew him intimately to regard him as a trifling skeptic.

(1562.3) 139:8.9 Thomas was in some respects like Philip; he also wanted “to be shown,” but his outward expressions of doubt were based on entirely different intellectual operations. Thomas was analytical, not merely skeptical. As far as personal physical courage was concerned, he was one of the bravest among the twelve.

(1641.6) 146:3.4 And Jesus said to Thomas: “Your assurance that you have entered into the kingdom family of the Father, and that you will eternally survive with the children of the kingdom, is wholly a matter of personal experience — faith in the word of truth. Spiritual assurance is the equivalent of your personal religious experience in the eternal realities of divine truth and is otherwise equal to your intelligent understanding of truth realities plus your spiritual faith and minus your honest doubts.


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Hm a religion of skepticism? What about it is okay to be skeptical but try to accept revelation anyway. One thing you must deal with is skepticism in the face of undeniable experience & uncanny circumstance. It is good to avoid putting the puzzle together until all the pieces have assembled, within a vicinity a realm of mind. Hold out for the final possibilities, and when you know them, then it is not better to identify or confirm a prophecy, but that we could learn to do the will of God. Jesus taught the Apostles how to be, how to draw the right circumstances, how to properly attend your affairs. To me, and I confess that I have mostly a fear religion, the fear of not knowing the will of God basically, or the fear of knowing that I am not courageous enough, knowing that I will have to depend on God in order to settle the perils of habitat loss and the dangers of a deteriorating quality of life. That is why it sounds strange for people to claim that they are fulfilling prophecies, even after Jesus said that John the Baptist was the last of the prophets. That means that all the prophecies have been fulfilled, my brother, and we must seek a better means for us to settle things. That is why people should consider read tUB, because of how you might approach the knowledge of human experience, and to have faith that the strong desire to fulfill the word of prophecy, make them better and more peaceful, will teach us how to settle things right.

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some good examples and write-ups here:

Urantia Evidence: Does science confirm the Urantia Book?

in addition to the reports list at ubannotated posted already

and more to come :-)


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SEla_Kelly wrote:
That is why it sounds strange for people to claim that they are fulfilling prophecies, even after Jesus said that John the Baptist was the last of the prophets. That means that all the prophecies have been fulfilled, my brother, and we must seek a better means for us to settle things.


Yet the Revelation gives instructions for future prophets:

(1010.4) 92:5.16 The future of Urantia will doubtless be characterized by the appearance of teachers of religious truth — the Fatherhood of God and the fraternity of all creatures. But it is to be hoped that the ardent and sincere efforts of these future prophets will be directed less toward the strengthening of interreligious barriers and more toward the augmentation of the religious brotherhood of spiritual worship among the many followers of the differing intellectual theologies which so characterize Urantia of Satania.


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The future prophets? Well, I definetly want my future ancestors to have all that they could ask of God. But believe me, "prophet" is not a flattering title in the modern age. It is one thing to hear the portents of outrageous fortune. But if you can see, how generation upon generation will rise and fall, but to be reunited with them, as eternal beings rather than in the sequence you have arisen. Then in being a father, you have to prepare for the time when you will have to rely on them. Tell me that is not just an allusion, "future prophets" as an heroic title for one's progeny. Because to me, prophecy and fatalism cannot be separated. You can experience personal revelation, without prophecy: just remember in wisdom you find your own way out of/through this. Supposing you have confirmed revelation, but then to speak it out would you be binding your conception to the things you declared, or rather the witness of your own perception?

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SEla_Kelly wrote:
Because to me, prophecy and fatalism cannot be separated. You can experience personal revelation, without prophecy: just remember in wisdom you find your own way out of/through this.


Not all prophets are prophets of doom. The prophets described in the Revelation are those mortals who expanded the world's understanding of the Father's loving nature and character. Those prophets were sharing their own personal religious experience with the Father, which leads to peace because it inspires others to look within themselves to discover the same Father of truth, beauty and goodness. In fact, the Revelation hints that some day a prophet musician might appear on this planet and change the world with inspirational melodies and harmony.

(500.6) 44:1.15 But be not discouraged; some day a real musician may appear on Urantia, and whole peoples will be enthralled by the magnificent strains of his melodies. One such human being could forever change the course of a whole nation, even the entire civilized world. It is literally true, “melody has power a whole world to transform.” Forever, music will remain the universal language of men, angels, and spirits. Harmony is the speech of Havona.


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But even so, a joyous or a doomed fate, is the aftertaste of prophecy. Oh? "Prophetic Joy", and harmony, the continuous flavour of Havona? I understand, how a prophet must serve his nation. Joy and ardour are wonderful experiences, but even so our lives in the Central Universe are temporary. You should forebear on joy just as much as doom, even if it is a valid trait of all Havoners!

The prophecy of personal revelation, is to know who you are/will be, after that Centeral Universe experience. There is no better apparent truth than to know Jesus as the Master, and to realise why he wants us to know the life that we have with the father, before this material existence gave birth to our souls. Like Ihaleakala Hew Len mentioned about his own purposes: getting back to zero, to overcome these physical obstacles, and have nothing obfusticating your personal relationship with He who is the First Source and Center, mean that you can go back to before the beginning, the chance to start as one without name and without number. How would you build the outer universes, will you create more after that....

This line "future prophets" is an allusion a hopeful boding that parents trust their own children more. That means when you hear your child make her first choice, real choice, you can neither affirm nor deny it: you can only help them to fulfill it. To see how a person's choices might reveal their individuated destiny, but then for you to tell them how or why or who would be like poison: to distort God's hope for that one!

Future prophets is like the affirmation that Jesus gave at sermon, echoing the declaration of Isaiah "you will be to me a nation of priests." But a prophet and a priest are examples of service, those who serve the Master Son, but service should exist within the tutelage of famlies, not in word but in self-sufficiency and in love.

There is something more to being a father. The Universal Father does not reveal to me much! But I know that when I have that revelation, it is because I did right by him and prepared my soul to receive his gift. But think about that in terms of loyalty! If your own son loyal to you, you would be afraid to prophecy to them, because that is your voice and for them to trust you so much and seek to fulfill your bodings, puts you in the liability if they act according to your instruction.

So the Melchizedek who wrote Paper 99 "On Religion", said something like this "Have ye faith? Then that is your faith and not another's: then keep it to yourself." And I think what we should realise about future prophets, is that they do not necessarily need to deliberate before the audience, but simply to understand personal revelation and to love others and work earnestly.

That sure seems a lot different than Christian Youtubers who claim prophecy and whose methods are the extrapolation of someone else's writings (Mainly John Zebdee's Revelation, which came after John the Baptist i.e. the last prophet), someone else's opinions or experiences. It is a mark of pride, I feel, in the modern day, and honestly what is revealed about another individual's destiny is too profound to speak: I can only help each person attain that.

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SEla_Kelly wrote:
But even so, a joyous or a doomed fate, is the aftertaste of prophecy. Oh? "Prophetic Joy", and harmony, the continuous flavour of Havona? I understand, how a prophet must serve his nation. Joy and ardour are wonderful experiences, but even so our lives in the Central Universe are temporary. You should forebear on joy just as much as doom, even if it is a valid trait of all Havoners!

The prophecy of personal revelation, is to know who you are/will be, after that Centeral Universe experience. There is no better apparent truth than to know Jesus as the Master, and to realise why he wants us to know the life that we have with the father, before this material existence gave birth to our souls. Like Ihaleakala Hew Len mentioned about his own purposes: getting back to zero, to overcome these physical obstacles, and have nothing obfusticating your personal relationship with He who is the First Source and Center, mean that you can go back to before the beginning, the chance to start as one without name and without number. How would you build the outer universes, will you create more after that....

This line "future prophets" is an allusion a hopeful boding that parents trust their own children more. That means when you hear your child make her first choice, real choice, you can neither affirm nor deny it: you can only help them to fulfill it. To see how a person's choices might reveal their individuated destiny, but then for you to tell them how or why or who would be like poison: to distort God's hope for that one!

Future prophets is like the affirmation that Jesus gave at sermon, echoing the declaration of Isaiah "you will be to me a nation of priests." But a prophet and a priest are examples of service, those who serve the Master Son, but service should exist within the tutelage of famlies, not in word but in self-sufficiency and in love.

There is something more to being a father. The Universal Father does not reveal to me much! But I know that when I have that revelation, it is because I did right by him and prepared my soul to receive his gift. But think about that in terms of loyalty! If your own son loyal to you, you would be afraid to prophecy to them, because that is your voice and for them to trust you so much and seek to fulfill your bodings, puts you in the liability if they act according to your instruction.

So the Melchizedek who wrote Paper 99 "On Religion", said something like this "Have ye faith? Then that is your faith and not another's: then keep it to yourself." And I think what we should realise about future prophets, is that they do not necessarily need to deliberate before the audience, but simply to understand personal revelation and to love others and work earnestly.

That sure seems a lot different than Christian Youtubers who claim prophecy and whose methods are the extrapolation of someone else's writings (Mainly John Zebdee's Revelation, which came after John the Baptist i.e. the last prophet), someone else's opinions or experiences. It is a mark of pride, I feel, in the modern day, and honestly what is revealed about another individual's destiny is too profound to speak: I can only help each person attain that.


We are told here to forbear our joys. Such horrible advice and, as usual, in direct contradiction of the UB. Who would preach such malarky??!! And why? Why defy the teachings OF JOY here of all places??!! Are we to be anxious or doubtful or brooding or dour or apprehensive or gloomy and moody and dark??!! Good Grief. Who thinks like this? Who would recommend it to others? Stephen declares we are to delay, restrict, prevent, and limit the fruits of the Spirit.

The UB teaches that joy is the natural state of knowledge and truth and wisdom and the objective perspective and subjective experience and expression of life!!! Indeed, joy is the natural and inherent result in spiritual growth and progress. Those who do not experience and express JOY have much work to do and are in no position to teach, preach, or declare falsehoods as truth to others....especially here!!

16:6.8 (192.4) 3. Worship—the spiritual domain of the reality of religious experience, the personal realization of divine fellowship, the recognition of spirit values, the assurance of eternal survival, the ascent from the status of servants of God to the joy and liberty of the sons of God. This is the highest insight of the cosmic mind, the reverential and worshipful form of the cosmic discrimination.

34:6.13 (381.7) The consciousness of the spirit domination of a human life is presently attended by an increasing exhibition of the characteristics of the Spirit in the life reactions of such a spirit-led mortal, “for the fruits of the spirit are love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and temperance.” Such spirit-guided and divinely illuminated mortals, while they yet tread the lowly paths of toil and in human faithfulness perform the duties of their earthly assignments, have already begun to discern the lights of eternal life as they glimmer on the faraway shores of another world; already have they begun to comprehend the reality of that inspiring and comforting truth, “The kingdom of God is not meat and drink but righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit.” And throughout every trial and in the presence of every hardship, spirit-born souls are sustained by that hope which transcends all fear because the love of God is shed abroad in all hearts by the presence of the divine Spirit.

100:4.3 (1097.7)  .......The highest happiness is indissolubly linked with spiritual progress. Spiritual growth yields lasting joy, peace which passes all understanding.

According to the UB, prophesy is far different than personal or epochal revelation. I think I have lived among prophets and heard their words of warning and hope for my generation. Some are greater and many are more obscure and a few perhaps notorious. Prophesy is the expression of vision and truth and passion as experienced and publicly expressed by another faith child. By the spoken or written word or by the lyrics of song or the script in a play or film.

We are surrounded by the portrayal of truth, warning, hope, direction, instruction, and inspiration. But do we hear it? Or understand and appreciate such public displays of faith? Not all prophesy or prophets are equal in truth or value. Only discernment and wisdom can help us "hear" truth.

For there certainly are false prophets and wannabe prophets who do not declare truth or give light to others. They are often driven by fears and darkness and delusion...and forbear joy!

Just sayin'..... :roll:

But here Stephen again and still distorts the UB teachings about prophesy to his own tormented prejudice and preference in defiance and contradiction of the UB. So unfortunate. Unchallenged and unanswered by the mods or the community here for nearly a week. Why? So then, you AGREE????!!!! Why then silence by these students in this classroom?? SPEAK UP! Somebody....or TruthBook is surely doomed.

Another falsehood proclaimed here by Stephen is that John the Baptist was the last prophet....only Stephen might think so. The UB certainly does not teach this. Who else here believes this false declaration? We will be led and served by prophets through all the earlier Mortal Epochs.

101:5.9 (1110.12) Scientists assemble facts, philosophers co-ordinate ideas, while prophets exalt ideals.....

102:7.7 (1127.1) If science, philosophy, or sociology dares to become dogmatic in contending with the prophets of true religion, then should God-knowing men reply to such unwarranted dogmatism with that more farseeing dogmatism of the certainty of personal spiritual experience, “I know what I have experienced because I am a son of I AM.”...

102:8.6 (1128.2) While personal religion precedes the evolution of human morals, it is regretfully recorded that institutional religion has invariably lagged behind the slowly changing mores of the human races. Organized religion has proved to be conservatively tardy. The prophets have usually led the people in religious development; the theologians have usually held them back. Religion, being a matter of inner or personal experience, can never develop very far in advance of the intellectual evolution of the races.

155:6.7 (1731.5) I admonish you to give up the practice of always quoting the prophets of old and praising the heroes of Israel, and instead aspire to become living prophets of the Most High and spiritual heroes of the coming kingdom. To honor the God-knowing leaders of the past may indeed be worth while, but why, in so doing, should you sacrifice the supreme experience of human existence: finding God for yourselves and knowing him in your own souls?


8)

Stephen's unchallenged lies, falsehoods, distortions, misrepresentations, and deliberate misstatements here reminds of a most amusing portrayal of human gullibility:

156:2.8 (1736.5) Jesus greatly enjoyed the keen sense of humor which these gentiles exhibited. It was the sense of humor displayed by Norana, the Syrian woman, as well as her great and persistent faith, that so touched the Master’s heart and appealed to his mercy. Jesus greatly regretted that his people—the Jews—were so lacking in humor. He once said to Thomas: “My people take themselves too seriously; they are just about devoid of an appreciation of humor. The burdensome religion of the Pharisees could never have had origin among a people with a sense of humor. They also lack consistency; they strain at gnats and swallow camels.”

IMO, there are far too many here willing to swallow Stephen's Camels while choking on gnats or any forms of correction, contention, or conflict. It is no mere quibble or squabble to disagree with one who declares we are God's slaves, without freewill, but with pre-existence and an endless stream of proclamations and declarations which contradict the UB.


Last edited by fanofVan on Sat Aug 31, 2019 4:09 pm +0000, edited 2 times in total.

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But here Stephen again and still distorts the UB teachings about prophesy to his own tormented prejudice and preference in defiance and contradiction of the UB. So unfortunate. Unchallenged and unanswered by the mods or the community here for nearly a week. Why? So then, you AGREE????!!!! Why then silence by these students in this classroom?? SPEAK UP! Somebody....or TruthBook is surely doomed.


Stephen makes long winded posts that whether they are related to the thread subject or not, meander into irrelevance to me. I don't notice all the cynicism in his posts because he fails to write anything compelling enough for me to keep reading after a couple of sentences.

You may not like my approach, but I have put him on my ignore list.


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That's one approach. As a newer student of the UB and new to this group, it's probably as good a solution as any. But, IMO, the seasoned readers and mods here need to do better to contain his nonsense.


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