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An open forum for general discussions of a spiritual nature where guests and readers entertain the teachings of The Urantia Book.
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A Small Leap of Faith

Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:17 am +0000

How can scientists take the big leap of faith to believe in God but cannot take the small leap of faith to believe that the ultimaton is the actual building block of the known universe. All of the atomic energy that we can see and measure is electronically organized untimatinic energy. We were given this knowledge around one hundred years ago and we have done nothing with it. I don't know if we, as a species, will survive without using this knowledge to solve our energy problems.

The leap of faith for science really is small because, they have already detected untimatonic energy calling it CMBR and also with the mathematically known neutrino. I don't think they have actually detected one yet but they know they exist, please correct me if I am wrong. As atomic systems decay the building blocks/ultimatons return to their natural state, before being caught in an atomic system.

regards, gray

Re: A Small Leap of Faith

Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:28 am +0000

Graybear,
You may find this article from the Urantia Fellowship of interest.

EXCERPT:

Functioning by inherent mutual attraction, ultimatons cluster according to their axial revolutionary velocities and these revolutions determine the negative and positive natures of several types of electronic units. Aggregating clusters of ultimatons, the primal physical units of material existence, collect in groups of one hundred to make up the constitution of an electron. There are never more nor less than one hundred ultimatons in the typical electron. Any variation of this number less than one hundred results in the loss of typical electron identity, bringing into existence one of "ten modified forms" of the electron assembly.

Temperature extremes, both hot and cold, exert a great influence on the ultimaton in the realm of energy and matter evolution. Low temperatures, along with other cosmic influences, promote certain forms of electronic construction and atomic assembly; high temperature and pressure, such as exists with certain internal solar states, initiate the onset of atomic breakup and material disintegration.

''Under such pressure and at such temperature all atoms are degraded and broken up into their electronic and other ancestral components; even the electrons and their associations of ultimatons may be broken up, but the suns are not able to degrade the ultimatons" [[UB 463:5] There are no cosmic conditions of heat or pressure which are capable of converting ultimatons back into their primal ancestry of emergent energy.

It may be the combination of these peculiarities connected with the unusual properties of the ultimaton that have made its direct discovery so elusive.

Re: A Small Leap of Faith

Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:38 am +0000

Hello gray,

It might not take a leap of faith but rather a more flexible and discerning mind. I think a lot of scientists who are deeply versed in elementary particles already consider the possibility that the electron may be made of smaller particles. And that idea is not new. In the very early 1900's Felix Ehrenhaft battled Robert Millikan for the right to be regarded as the person to first measure the charge of an electron. It is rather interesting that Ehrenhaft's experimental data indicated that charge may be divisible into units one hundredth the value of the electron's charge. He subsequent published material involving sub-electron particles.

https://www.lenfisherscience.com/90-mil ... -thinking/
https://www.encyclopedia.com/science/di ... haft-felix

Re: A Small Leap of Faith

Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:56 am +0000

Thank you


Thank you Agon and Riktare. I understand that science was on the verge of understanding how creation actually works a hundred years ago. With help from the Urantia Book, at that time, it could have been realized but for the influence of the Catholic Church with it's primeval atom mathematics. I wonder if this was influenced by Satan to counter TUB. This time we can't afford to lose the battle.

The leap of faith for scientists is really about deeply pondering the concept of emergent energy whirling and collapsing into mesotron and then exploding into atomic creation. What is mesotron? How does linear gravity pull ultimatons into mesotron? What holds collapsing spheres of ultimatons, that electrons jump between, together? When enough scientists can dismiss big bang and rewire their brains to think of creation as something that is happening now they will understand what gravity is and how to use it as a source of energy. I think our most urgent experiment should be the creation of mesotron.

regards, gray

Re: A Small Leap of Faith

Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:07 pm +0000

How can scientists take the big leap of faith to believe in God but cannot take the small leap of faith to believe that the ultimaton is the actual building block of the known universe.


Scientists aren't in the business of faith leaping, big or small, when it comes to knowledge of material things, nor should they be. God forbid! Scientists and non-scientists alike have beliefs about all sorts of things. But if they are scientists they put aside belief for empirical evidence, and at this point in human history there is none for many concepts revealed in UB.

I think our most urgent experiment should be the creation of mesotron.


Really? I should rather hope you think the creation of a partnership with a fragment of God is more urgent, and necessary to the acquisition of understanding the science of material creation.

Re: A Small Leap of Faith

Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:31 am +0000

gizmo wrote:
Scientists aren't in the business of faith leaping, big or small, when it comes to knowledge of material things...


Well that's simply not true. :mrgreen: Around a hundred years ago science took the leap of faith to believe in the primeval atom mathematics coming out of the Catholic Church. The church wanted to prove that creation happened in an instant. Big bang theory soon followed. The next leap of faith was for science to assume that the CMBR, discovered in the 1950s, was an echo of the big bang and was therefore proof that the big bang theory is true. There are other leaps of faith connecting empirical evidence to the big bang nonsense, but who's counting.

The Urantia Book predicted that science would detect the vibrations of ultimatonic rays as they rain down on urantia. The CMBR is empirical evidence of puissant emergent (ultimatonic) energy. The only faith, beyond faith in the Urantia Book, that is required now is to be able to transition to a new way of thinking without fear that the standard model will not match up with the new reality. The standard model is not part of this discussion. When the standard model is seen from this new perspective the unified field theory or theory of everything will be realized. Obviously it is a very difficult transition and your faith has to be strong.

gray

Re: A Small Leap of Faith

Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:04 am +0000

gizmo wrote:
I think our most urgent experiment should be the creation of mesotron.


Really? I should rather hope you think the creation of a partnership with a fragment of God is more urgent.


Really? If this has not happened for you yet, then I think, on a personal level, you should get that done.

Maybe you think I take this effort to bring God's word to life lightly, I don't know, but your contempt for me is of little consequence. I will forge ahead trying to deliver my message.

gray

Re: A Small Leap of Faith

Fri Aug 30, 2019 2:44 am +0000

graybear13 wrote:I will forge ahead trying to deliver my message.

Hi graybear, count me in! But let's try to make that message the best we can.

For example, you wrote:
graybear13 wrote:The Urantia Book predicted that science would detect the vibrations of ultimatonic rays as they rain down on urantia. The CMBR is empirical evidence of puissant emergent (ultimatonic) energy.

The cosmic microwave background is electromagnetic radiation, i.e. photons with wavelength about 2 millimeters (160 GHz).

More interesting might be the cosmic neutrino background (CNB) (see update here)

Regarding the origin of what is currently mistaken for that "redshifted surface of last scattering" (the CMBR), I think this is the subject of 42:4.6,
UB 42:4.6 wrote:"Gravity presence and action is what prevents the appearance of the theoretical absolute zero, for interstellar space does not have the temperature of absolute zero. Throughout all organized space there are gravity-responding energy currents, power circuits, and ultimatonic activities, as well as organizing electronic energies. Practically speaking, space is not empty. [...]." (473.4, 42:4.6)

For some ideas about how we might tune our message, I've sketched a few thoughts in this series of videos.

Nigel

Re: A Small Leap of Faith

Fri Aug 30, 2019 2:01 pm +0000

Maybe you think I take this effort to bring God's word to life lightly, I don't know, but your contempt for me is of little consequence. I will forge ahead trying to deliver my message.


Whoa! Contempt? Not part of my nature. I would have used a smiley face but I thought you'd take the mild rebuke about what's important with a sense of humor. I dislike emojis.

I was hoping we could have a discussion about science and pseudo science in the context of the UB, but I don't think you want me in your sandbox. Peace!

Re: A Small Leap of Faith

Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:45 pm +0000

I am confused. I thought the admirable scientific method had nothing to do with faith but only with logic, reason, observation , proofs, and substantiation. Or modern science anyway. Science originated within the religious community but broke off 150 years ago or so early in the Darwinian age and soon to come big bang era.

Confidence in the method is well founded. But the results of the method mostly demonstrate the inherent frustration of Godless science. I think the best small step might only come when believers again reclaim the method and fearlessly and logically pursue evolutionary creationism.

Re: A Small Leap of Faith

Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:47 am +0000

Thanks for the links Nigel, although I didn't see the videos. While I read about CNB I was impressed by their push to make neutrinos fit into their faith in big bang. Congratulations to science for discovering neutrinos, but their is a logical explanation for their existence. Instead of creation beginning with an explosion fueled by a singularity, what ever that is, it is an implosion fueled by a puissant emergent energy in the form of ultimatons; a concentration of ultimatons. We are told that electrons are 100 ultimatons clustered together. Maybe neutrinos are small clusters of ultimatons. If these clusters come into contact with another particle, I think they would break apart and disappear into dark matter.

41:7.12 You might try to visualize 35,000,000 degrees of heat. In association with with certain gravity pressures , as the boiling point. Under such pressure and at such temperatures all atoms are degraded and broken up into their electronic and other ancestral components; even the electrons and their associations of ultimatons may by broken up, but suns are not able to degrade ultimatons.

Do you think that "other ancestral components" are linear gravity and mesotron?

It is ultimatons and neutrinos into mesotron and it is ultimatons and neutrinos out when the atomic system boils away.

regards, gray

Re: A Small Leap of Faith

Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:34 am +0000

fanofVan wrote: I think the best small step might only come when believers again reclaim the method and fearlessly and logically pursue evolutionary creationism.


This is the small leap of faith I am talking about. To rewire our thinking to move away from the illogical faith in big bang and adopt a logical approach to understanding creation. Implosion in the beginning, not explosion. The explosion into matter comes when mesotron generates enough power to create atomic ignition or star ignition.

"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. " Albert Einstein

Re: A Small Leap of Faith

Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:52 am +0000

After there is an understanding of how creation works, it is not a very large leap or brain rewire to see that the gravitational force that we feel is a push, not a pull, on the atoms of our body. Puissant emergent energy is pulled into the planet to feed all of it's atomic activity and we are simply caught in the flow.

The Urantia Book tells us that the electronic organization of matter is an atomic fire. If it is not fed it will go out, so there has to be a constant flow of ultimatons into a system.

The interaction of the atoms in our body with the flow of energy into the earth is the gravitational pull of our body's atoms on earth's gravity flow. Our atoms are pulling on the flow of ultimatons that are moving toward earth.

We need to create a sphere of influence around an object where the atoms of the object can feed on untimatons that are not moving toward earth. The force mass power of mesotron creates a gravity field. If an object is at or near the center of a mesotron situated in earth's gravity field, it's atoms will be influenced toward the gravitational center of mesotron rendering it weightless because it no longer has to feed on earth's gravity flow. It will feed on ultimatons that have been captured by the gravitational pull of mesotron.

regards, gray

Re: A Small Leap of Faith

Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:05 am +0000

fanofVan wrote:I am confused. I thought the admirable scientific method had nothing to do with faith but only with logic, reason, observation , proofs, and substantiation. Or modern science anyway. Science originated within the religious community but broke off 150 years ago or so early in the Darwinian age and soon to come big bang era.


I think graybear13 is quite right that there are "articles of faith" that every scientist or educator currently must publicly hold if they are to be respected in the community. As one well published British biologist put it "give me one free miracle and I'll explain everything". Those "one free miracles" are The Big Bang Theory, Darwinian Evolution, The Standard Model and Special Relativity for example.

Re: A Small Leap of Faith

Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:19 am +0000

MY "one free miracle" is when I look at the 2013 map of the background radiation taken by the ESA's Plank spacecraft I see waves of puissant emergent energy slowing down and bursting into atomic ignition. The 90% of energy that I cannot actually see is the singularity of infinite energy. If I start there, at the threshold of eternity, and look toward creation I can see how linear gravity is the driving force behind atomic creation.

regards, gray
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