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(1610.1) 143:2.6 Salvation is by the regeneration of the spirit and not by the self-righteous deeds of the flesh. You are justified by faith and fellowshipped by grace, not by fear and the self-denial of the flesh, albeit the Father’s children who have been born of the spirit are ever and always masters of the self and all that pertains to the desires of the flesh. When you know that you are saved by faith, you have real peace with God. And all who follow in the way of this heavenly peace are destined to be sanctified to the eternal service of the ever-advancing sons of the eternal God. Henceforth, it is not a duty but rather your exalted privilege to cleanse yourselves from all evils of mind and body while you seek for perfection in the love of God.

Can anyone explain what is meant by "fellowshipped by grace"?


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I don't really know, but I guess grace has something to do with the expression of truth, beauty and goodness. Maybe it has a relation to realizing those qualities in your life and translating them into everyday artifacts or acts.


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Perhaps we should define grace from the Christian perspective, and then interpret how the celestials amplify or enlarge its meaning cosmically. I would think that since they employ a religious term, our starting point should be the Christian breakdown of grace.

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brooklyn_born wrote:
Perhaps we should define grace from the Christian perspective, and then interpret how the celestials amplify or enlarge its meaning cosmically. I would think that since they employ a religious term, our starting point should be the Christian breakdown of grace.



I have this dictionary definition which seems to be from a Christian perspective. It mentions God and virtue.

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grace 
c.1175, "God's favor or help," from O.Fr. grace "pleasing quality, favor, good will, thanks," from L. gratia "pleasing quality, good will, gratitude," from gratus "pleasing, agreeable," from PIE base *gwer- "to praise, welcome" (cf. Skt. grnati "sings, praises, announces," Lith. giriu "to praise, celebrate," Avestan gar- "to praise"). Sense of "virtue" is c.1330, that of "beauty of form or movement, pleasing quality" is c.1340. In classical sense, "one of the three sister goddesses (L. Gratiæ, Gk. Kharites), bestowers of beauty and charm," it is first recorded in Eng. 1579 in Spenser. The short prayer that is said before or after a meal (c.1225, until 16c. usually graces) is in the sense of "gratitude." Verb meaning "to show favor" (c.1440) led to that of "to lend or add grace to something" (1586, e.g. grace us with your presence), which is the root of the musical sense in grace notes (1657). Gracious as an exclamation (1713) is short for gracious God, etc.


I looked up the meaning of grace at the vatican's website but it's too long to copy. This description seems to sum it up: "The grace of Christ is the gratuitous gift that God makes to us of his own life, infused by the Holy Spirit into our soul to heal it of sin and to sanctify it. "

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P6Z.HTM


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Riktare wrote:
I don't really know, but I guess grace has something to do with the expression of truth, beauty and goodness. Maybe it has a relation to realizing those qualities in your life and translating them into everyday artifacts or acts.


There is mention of beauty and goodness in the dictionary definition above. I'm struck by the fact that the term "fellowshipped by grace" seems to personify grace. Doesn't fellowshipping require at least two persons friendly toward one another? I couldn't find an entry for the verb form of the word "fellowship" in the dictionary. It seems to be a word peculiar the to the Revelation. Perhaps it has something to do with the quality of divinity shared with man by deity? Truth, beauty and goodness are the virtues, or qualities, we associate with deity.

(3.3) 0:1.16 DIVINITY is the characteristic, unifying, and co-ordinating quality of Deity.

(3.4) 0:1.17 Divinity is creature comprehensible as truth, beauty, and goodness; correlated in personality as love, mercy, and ministry; disclosed on impersonal levels as justice, power, and sovereignty.


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Cool. Also I retrieved this off wikipedia:

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In Western Christian theology, grace is "the love and mercy given to us by God because God desires us to have it, not necessarily because of anything we have done to earn it". It is not a created substance of any kind.[1] "Grace is favour, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life."[2] It is understood by Christians to be a spontaneous gift from God to people "generous, free and totally unexpected and undeserved"[3] – that takes the form of divine favor, love, clemency, and a share in the divine life of God.[4]



Reference link

katroofjebus wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:
Perhaps we should define grace from the Christian perspective, and then interpret how the celestials amplify or enlarge its meaning cosmically. I would think that since they employ a religious term, our starting point should be the Christian breakdown of grace.



I have this dictionary definition which seems to be from a Christian perspective. It mentions God and virtue.

Quote:
grace 
c.1175, "God's favor or help," from O.Fr. grace "pleasing quality, favor, good will, thanks," from L. gratia "pleasing quality, good will, gratitude," from gratus "pleasing, agreeable," from PIE base *gwer- "to praise, welcome" (cf. Skt. grnati "sings, praises, announces," Lith. giriu "to praise, celebrate," Avestan gar- "to praise"). Sense of "virtue" is c.1330, that of "beauty of form or movement, pleasing quality" is c.1340. In classical sense, "one of the three sister goddesses (L. Gratiæ, Gk. Kharites), bestowers of beauty and charm," it is first recorded in Eng. 1579 in Spenser. The short prayer that is said before or after a meal (c.1225, until 16c. usually graces) is in the sense of "gratitude." Verb meaning "to show favor" (c.1440) led to that of "to lend or add grace to something" (1586, e.g. grace us with your presence), which is the root of the musical sense in grace notes (1657). Gracious as an exclamation (1713) is short for gracious God, etc.


I looked up the meaning of grace at the vatican's website but it's too long to copy. This description seems to sum it up: "The grace of Christ is the gratuitous gift that God makes to us of his own life, infused by the Holy Spirit into our soul to heal it of sin and to sanctify it. "

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P6Z.HTM

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I have to say brooklyn, I like wiki's definition more than the Vatican's. The issue of needing to heal the soul of sin has never sat well with me since the soul is created by sinless decisions.

The idea that grace is a gift seems to be consistent with both definitions as the Revelation seems to indicate also. I'm still wondering what they mean by "fellowshipped by". Certainly it must have something to do with the concept of Father/son, as in "sons of grace and mercy". The Father's gift to the son is grace, his favor and help, which also suggests ministry, and ministry, I suppose, is part of fellowshipping? A back-and-forth, give-and-take phenomenon?


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The creation of the soul and sin I think deserves further exploring. The wiki definition seems more refined than what the Vatican offers. I think the use of the word fellowship is in the sense of being in relationship with "grace."

katroofjebus wrote:
I have to say brooklyn, I like wiki's definition more than the Vatican's. The issue of needing to heal the soul of sin has never sat well with me since the soul is created by sinless decisions. "

The idea that grace is a gift seems to be consistent with both definitions as the Revelation seems to indicate also. I'm still wondering what they mean by "fellowshipped by". Certainly it must have something to do with the concept of Father/son, as in "sons of grace and mercy". The Father's gift to the son is grace, his favor and help, which also suggests ministry, and ministry, I suppose, is part of fellowshipping? A back-and-forth, give-and-take phenomenon?

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brooklyn_born wrote:
I think the use of the word fellowship is in the sense of being in relationship with "grace."


That reminds me of the reference to the higher and lower natures we humans have. The higher nature is the new nature of grace, the soul. It seems that grace is part of a relationship within the soul, most likely the selflessness freely admixed by Deity in response to faith-trust.

(1131.8 ) 103:2.9 But before a child has developed sufficiently to acquire moral capacity and therefore to be able to choose altruistic service, he has already developed a strong and well-unified egoistic nature. And it is this factual situation that gives rise to the theory of the struggle between the “higher” and the “lower” natures, between the “old man of sin” and the “new nature” of grace. Very early in life the normal child begins to learn that it is “more blessed to give than to receive.”

I think there is also a relationship between grace and goodness since it is written that we become good through grace. There is also a reference which explains that the concept of goodness can only be understood in relation to personality. Deity is undoubtedly the source of all goodness and it's selflessness, which is what I think grace essentially is. Selflessness makes true goodness unconscious, so I also think true grace might also be unconscious. Perhaps consciousness of grace makes one graceful rather than gracious?

(317.3) 28:6.22 The estimate of greatness varies from sphere to sphere. To be great is to be Godlike. And since the quality of greatness is wholly determined by the content of goodness, it follows that, even in your present human estate, if you can through grace become good, you are thereby becoming great. The more steadfastly you behold, and the more persistently you pursue, the concepts of divine goodness, the more certainly will you grow in greatness, in true magnitude of genuine survival character.

(1874.5) 171:7.2 Goodness always compels respect, but when it is devoid of grace, it often repels affection. Goodness is universally attractive only when it is gracious. Goodness is effective only when it is attractive.

(31.3) 1:7.3 The concept of truth might possibly be entertained apart from personality, the concept of beauty may exist without personality, but the concept of divine goodness is understandable only in relation to personality. Only a person can love and be loved. Even beauty and truth would be divorced from survival hope if they were not attributes of a personal God, a loving Father.

(1582.7) 140:8.26 Jesus always insisted that true goodness must be unconscious, in bestowing charity not allowing the left hand to know what the right hand does.

(1874.4) 171:7.1 Jesus spread good cheer everywhere he went. He was full of grace and truth. His associates never ceased to wonder at the gracious words that proceeded out of his mouth. You can cultivate gracefulness, but graciousness is the aroma of friendliness which emanates from a love-saturated soul.

brooklyn_born wrote:
The creation of the soul and sin I think deserves further exploring.


Did you want a new thread for that, or should we explore here?


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When the soul is spiritually receptive, the combined influence of the Infinite Spirit, the Eternal Son, and the Universal Father can shed grace upon the human heart. Grace is so important, because it basically defines spiritual growth through the entire ascender journey. Logically, I know that I need to feel, or to experience God's grace: that is the real affirmation of my faith. But I also notice how often my actual intentions falter from the reality of grace. What I am looking for, is the diligence and humility, and yeah the sincerity would be my own part, in order to have the sustained gracefulness. But yes, too often my own evil and even sin severs the lifeline of grace that I have with God in the Holy Spirit.

You ask what does that mean relationship with grace? Well because our concept of eternity requires that we must seek God the Universal Father, a person, and live in him. The Central Universe opening up the reality of eternity to us, as we become more graceful, more unified in the life of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. To be "touched by grace" is literally, to me, to share my life with every sentient being whose life is in Havona.

That is why I not sure if the definition can be as helpful in this consideration, as is the perfection of the Central Universe, to experience relationship with anyone from there requires grace, and sensitivity/knowledge of grace. To know grace is one thing, but to become graceful in the sustained resonance with the Central Universe, is quite a challenge.

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It would be a cool topic to discuss. I think it was broached here several months ago. I'd have to comb through the archive to find it. If I find it, I will resurrect the thread, otherwise be on the lookout for a new thread on the topic. I am a bit busy so it may take a while though.



katroofjebus wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:
I think the use of the word fellowship is in the sense of being in relationship with "grace."


That reminds me of the reference to the higher and lower natures we humans have. The higher nature is the new nature of grace, the soul. It seems that grace is part of a relationship within the soul, most likely the selflessness freely admixed by Deity in response to faith-trust.

(1131.8 ) 103:2.9 But before a child has developed sufficiently to acquire moral capacity and therefore to be able to choose altruistic service, he has already developed a strong and well-unified egoistic nature. And it is this factual situation that gives rise to the theory of the struggle between the “higher” and the “lower” natures, between the “old man of sin” and the “new nature” of grace. Very early in life the normal child begins to learn that it is “more blessed to give than to receive.”

I think there is also a relationship between grace and goodness since it is written that we become good through grace. There is also a reference which explains that the concept of goodness can only be understood in relation to personality. Deity is undoubtedly the source of all goodness and it's selflessness, which is what I think grace essentially is. Selflessness makes true goodness unconscious, so I also think true grace might also be unconscious. Perhaps consciousness of grace makes one graceful rather than gracious?

(317.3) 28:6.22 The estimate of greatness varies from sphere to sphere. To be great is to be Godlike. And since the quality of greatness is wholly determined by the content of goodness, it follows that, even in your present human estate, if you can through grace become good, you are thereby becoming great. The more steadfastly you behold, and the more persistently you pursue, the concepts of divine goodness, the more certainly will you grow in greatness, in true magnitude of genuine survival character.

(1874.5) 171:7.2 Goodness always compels respect, but when it is devoid of grace, it often repels affection. Goodness is universally attractive only when it is gracious. Goodness is effective only when it is attractive.

(31.3) 1:7.3 The concept of truth might possibly be entertained apart from personality, the concept of beauty may exist without personality, but the concept of divine goodness is understandable only in relation to personality. Only a person can love and be loved. Even beauty and truth would be divorced from survival hope if they were not attributes of a personal God, a loving Father.

(1582.7) 140:8.26 Jesus always insisted that true goodness must be unconscious, in bestowing charity not allowing the left hand to know what the right hand does.

(1874.4) 171:7.1 Jesus spread good cheer everywhere he went. He was full of grace and truth. His associates never ceased to wonder at the gracious words that proceeded out of his mouth. You can cultivate gracefulness, but graciousness is the aroma of friendliness which emanates from a love-saturated soul.

brooklyn_born wrote:
The creation of the soul and sin I think deserves further exploring.


Did you want a new thread for that, or should we explore here?

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SEla_Kelly wrote:
But yes, too often my own evil and even sin severs the lifeline of grace that I have with God in the Holy Spirit.


That's an interesting point. Do you think grace is part of the "vine" that Jesus told us to remain connected to? The vine that produces spiritual fruit full of grace?

(1945.4) 180.2.1 2. Then Jesus stood up again and continued teaching his apostles: “I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. I am the vine, and you are the branches. And the Father requires of me only that you shall bear much fruit. The vine is pruned only to increase the fruitfulness of its branches. Every branch coming out of me which bears no fruit, the Father will take away. Every branch which bears fruit, the Father will cleanse that it may bear more fruit. Already are you clean through the word I have spoken, but you must continue to be clean. You must abide in me, and I in you; the branch will die if it is separated from the vine. As the branch cannot bear fruit except it abides in the vine, so neither can you yield the fruits of loving service except you abide in me. Remember: I am the real vine, and you are the living branches. He who lives in me, and I in him, will bear much fruit of the spirit and experience the supreme joy of yielding this spiritual harvest. If you will maintain this living spiritual connection with me, you will bear abundant fruit. If you abide in me and my words live in you, you will be able to commune freely with me, and then can my living spirit so infuse you that you may ask whatsoever my spirit wills and do all this with the assurance that the Father will grant us our petition. Herein is the Father glorified: that the vine has many living branches, and that every branch bears much fruit. And when the world sees these fruit-bearing branches — my friends who love one another, even as I have loved them — all men will know that you are truly my disciples.


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The growth in goodness, through grace, means that as a man is devoted to bringing justice on our world, we know from the quotes brooklyn shared that the mercy he is able to offer, is attenuated by the love he is able to receive. Mercy, therefore, can be seen as an act wherein the love of one person is extended to protect another being. I always want to know if such mercy can help a person apply justice to himself, before attempt to extend mercy to anyone else.

The experience of grace, in a metaphysical sense, or for my subjective experience, although fleeting, is real. It is fleeting because of the current status of my own nature, but if I were to become a merciful and loving being, then I believe that gracefulness can be a quality of my current/future status. In the realisation of worship, the God who lives in man extends his loving nature into the entire personality, just as worship helps such a man to become more universal. And it is by grace that man should reach such a stature as allows Eternal Beings, i.e. the Spiritual Administration, to by love extend mercy, a "mercy credit" to the sustenance of such human life.

But grace is not an emotional status, but one that can only be experienced in an active growth state wherein the human is focused on loving others, and naturally the experience of grace can be felt when the ascender is engaged in the activities of doing God's will. It occurs when a human individual himself has the opportunity to be merciful, through his encounters with other individuals, and this experience of grace can be felt while the human mind is in the mode of work/prayer.

As another requirement, the human individual must "strive for perfection", to seek God's own nature within himself. Grace, although imperceptible in a physical sense, is truly real to the soul. It is because the soul is potentially eternal, and the love that he receives from other beings, is known through grace. This is like to experience the quality of other beings, in personal experience, and the quality of the love from the Infinite Spirit, and all beings of the Central Univeres, is perfect.

What is it in worship, to taste of the quality of God's love, to experience the love of beings whom you have never encountered and whom you may never encounter, that helps man to become wise, to want to love to experience real love, and to share all the love he has garnered with all other souls of this world. It is the reach of grace, to be fellowshipped by Creator Parents in one's own mind, to actually feel this grace, and to know that if you have that experience, you have also the opportunity to become like God, a perfect and perfected personality, one who has endured the trials of the material existence and nevertheless loves mortals.

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SEla_Kelly wrote:
The growth in goodness, through grace, means that as a man is devoted to bringing justice on our world, we know from the quotes brooklyn shared that the mercy he is able to offer, is attenuated by the love he is able to receive. Mercy, therefore, can be seen as an act wherein the love of one person is extended to protect another being. I always want to know if such mercy can help a person apply justice to himself, before attempt to extend mercy to anyone else.

The experience of grace, in a metaphysical sense, or for my subjective experience, although fleeting, is real. It is fleeting because of the current status of my own nature, but if I were to become a merciful and loving being, then I believe that gracefulness can be a quality of my current/future status. In the realisation of worship, the God who lives in man extends his loving nature into the entire personality, just as worship helps such a man to become more universal. And it is by grace that man should reach such a stature as allows Eternal Beings, i.e. the Spiritual Administration, to by love extend mercy, a "mercy credit" to the sustenance of such human life.

But grace is not an emotional status, but one that can only be experienced in an active growth state wherein the human is focused on loving others, and naturally the experience of grace can be felt when the ascender is engaged in the activities of doing God's will. It occurs when a human individual himself has the opportunity to be merciful, through his encounters with other individuals, and this experience of grace can be felt while the human mind is in the mode of work/prayer.

As another requirement, the human individual must "strive for perfection", to seek God's own nature within himself. Grace, although imperceptible in a physical sense, is truly real to the soul. It is because the soul is potentially eternal, and the love that he receives from other beings, is known through grace. This is like to experience the quality of other beings, in personal experience, and the quality of the love from the Infinite Spirit, and all beings of the Central Univeres, is perfect.

What is it in worship, to taste of the quality of God's love, to experience the love of beings whom you have never encountered and whom you may never encounter, that helps man to become wise, to want to love to experience real love, and to share all the love he has garnered with all other souls of this world. It is the reach of grace, to be fellowshipped by Creator Parents in one's own mind, to actually feel this grace, and to know that if you have that experience, you have also the opportunity to become like God, a perfect and perfected personality, one who has endured the trials of the material existence and nevertheless loves mortals.


Very inspiring post!

Stephen asks above: "I always want to know if such mercy can help a person apply justice to himself, before attempt to extend mercy to anyone else."

I don' think so. We are taught we are ABLE to receive mercy AS we give it and that God's love is received best by its giving too. A teaching that differs from most Christian doctrines. The teaching of giving to others, love, mercy, and forgiveness to be connected to the circuit and flow OF love, mercy, and forgiveness.

In this way does personal loving service become socialized universally to change worlds. These teachings certainly are included in the Christian tradition by the Lord's Prayer (forgive us AS we forgive). The UB teaches that we are unconditionally given love, mercy, and forgiveness but we cannot utilize it until and as we give it to others.

A fascinating concept and truth. Those gifts are not withheld but deliver no meaningful experiential value untill given to another first. Go figure....

There are many who do not get this important foundational concept....forgive first...to receive forgiveness.
:smile:

170:2.23 (1861.5) Jesus taught that sin is not the child of a defective nature but rather the offspring of a knowing mind dominated by an unsubmissive will. Regarding sin, he taught that God hasforgiven; that we make such forgiveness personally available by the act of forgiving our fellows. When you forgive your brother in the flesh, you thereby create the capacity in your own soul for the reception of the reality of God’s forgiveness of your own misdeeds.


Last edited by fanofVan on Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:19 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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SEla_Kelly wrote:
The growth in goodness, through grace, means that as a man is devoted to bringing justice on our world, we know from the quotes brooklyn shared that the mercy he is able to offer, is attenuated by the love he is able to receive. Mercy, therefore, can be seen as an act wherein the love of one person is extended to protect another being. I always want to know if such mercy can help a person apply justice to himself, before attempt to extend mercy to anyone else.


I do think grace and mercy are related. The Revelation defines mercy as the personal expression of justice with the attitude of love.

(115.2) 10:6.18 Justice is the collective thought of righteousness; mercy is its personal expression. Mercy is the attitude of love; precision characterizes the operation of law; divine judgment is the soul of fairness, ever conforming to the justice of the Trinity, ever fulfilling the divine love of God. When fully perceived and completely understood, the righteous justice of the Trinity and the merciful love of the Universal Father are coincident. But man has no such full understanding of divine justice. Thus in the Trinity, as man would view it, the personalities of Father, Son, and Spirit are adjusted to co-ordinate ministry of love and law in the experiential universes of time.

Justice is always a group, or collective phenomenon, and mercy cannot exist without first recognizing and accepting justice. Mercy is an outgrowth of the appreciation of the value of the whole.

(315.1) 28:6.8 While the spirit techniques of mercy ministry are beyond your concept, you should even now understand that mercy is a quality of growth. You should realize that there is a great reward of personal satisfaction in being first just, next fair, then patient, then kind. And then, on that foundation, if you choose and have it in your heart, you can take the next step and really show mercy; but you cannot exhibit mercy in and of itself. These steps must be traversed; otherwise there can be no genuine mercy. There may be patronage, condescension, or charity — even pity — but not mercy. True mercy comes only as the beautiful climax to these preceding adjuncts to group understanding, mutual appreciation, fraternal fellowship, spiritual communion, and divine harmony.

Both mercy and grace are qualities of growth. If mercy is dependent upon the recognition of group justice or understanding, fraternal fellowship and spiritual communion, then perhaps the acquirement of grace also requires this same ability. And perhaps this growth in grace also allows a person to become good, and goodness includes being just, fair, patient and kind, the steps needed in order to show true mercy. It seems almost circular.

I also wanted to point out that the goal is to become gracious rather than graceful. A ballerina is graceful; a love-saturated soul is gracious. There's nothing wrong with being graceful, but it doesn't necessarily mean full of grace. Gracefulness means elegant and agile. Graciousness means lovingly friendly.


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