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 Post subject: Re: Spiritual Pride
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I guess my own pride is the only one worth examining.

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 Post subject: Re: Spiritual Pride
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SEla_Kelly wrote:
I guess my own pride is the only one worth examining.


I think that's the message of this:

140:3.17 (1571.4) “You are commissioned to save men, not to judge them. At the end of your earth life you will all expect mercy; therefore do I require of you during your mortal life that you show mercy to all of your brethren in the flesh. Make not the mistake of trying to pluck a mote out of your brother’s eye when there is a beam in your own eye. Having first cast the beam out of your own eye, you can the better see to cast the mote out of your brother’s eye.

So...accusing another of spiritual pride or lacking spirituality or other inferiority is, by definition, itself a display of the very accusation we have made!! The party accused may or may not be guilty but the accuser IS guilty.

Is that the way others understand this?

We are told we are forgiven as we forgive...that our ability to receive forgiveness is based on how we extend that to others. Including those we find annoying, disappointing, etc. If we forgive, then we do not judge. If we judge then we do not forgive. Is that right?

:?:


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 Post subject: Re: Spiritual Pride
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"I believe that fits the definition of ad hominin attack. Yet I hear no objection from the mods or the peanut gallery."

If the mods don't object then perhaps they don't see anything to object to. And the peanut gallery... hmm what do you mean by the peanut gallery? Do you mean "a group of people who criticize someone, often by focusing on insignificant details." I am assuming this itself is a criticism although it is somewhat vague and sounds arrogant and demeaning. Am I accusing you of being arrogant and demeaning? No. But what you are saying sounds arrogant and demeaning, since I have never heard the expression "peanut gallery" used in any way except disdainfully.

Methinks thou dost protest too much, to paraphrase Shakespeare's Queen Gertrude in "Hamlet". Why are you making such a fuss? It's really not necessary is it? Spiritual pride is demonstrated in a lack of tolerance for the mistakes of others, in dismissing others' thoughts and opinions with a perfunctory wave of your mouse and generally giving the impression that your views are the only valid views. Do I think you demonstrate spiritual pride in the way you address others you disagree with? Yes I do, I think that some comments manifest spiritual pride, especially when taking an aggressive and critical position. Did I demonstrate spiritual pride when I criticized you for demonstrating spiritual pride? Yes, I did, and I think you have, in your posts and ripostes proven that repeatedly. So why continue, why don't you just let the subject rest? What are you trying to prove?


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Okay, I tell you the truth, sir. The things that I take pride in life, is not my relationships with others, or the status I might gain, but rather that I have maintained a continuous path, of having the opportunity to do the work of the first source and center every day. Oh, of course I worry that the quality of my contribution will be unacceptable to the whole of my organisation, or the clients. But to remain on a job site, and to be taught each minute task, every step of the process, is an opportunity that I hope everyone can have. But I am assured with the sense, that the harder I work, the more intricate my workmanship may become. It is true, that I have some pride in the hope that each of my family members may find an eternal life in with the universal father in paradise. That is the pride that I have in this game: to push other people into Paradise as many others even though I am certain to never reach such a destination.

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 Post subject: Re: Spiritual Pride
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pethuel wrote:
"I believe that fits the definition of ad hominin attack. Yet I hear no objection from the mods or the peanut gallery."

If the mods don't object then perhaps they don't see anything to object to. And the peanut gallery... hmm what do you mean by the peanut gallery? Do you mean "a group of people who criticize someone, often by focusing on insignificant details." I am assuming this itself is a criticism although it is somewhat vague and sounds arrogant and demeaning. Am I accusing you of being arrogant and demeaning? No. But what you are saying sounds arrogant and demeaning, since I have never heard the expression "peanut gallery" used in any way except disdainfully.

Methinks thou dost protest too much, to paraphrase Shakespeare's Queen Gertrude in "Hamlet". Why are you making such a fuss? It's really not necessary is it? Spiritual pride is demonstrated in a lack of tolerance for the mistakes of others, in dismissing others' thoughts and opinions with a perfunctory wave of your mouse and generally giving the impression that your views are the only valid views. Do I think you demonstrate spiritual pride in the way you address others you disagree with? Yes I do, I think that some comments manifest spiritual pride, especially when taking an aggressive and critical position. Did I demonstrate spiritual pride when I criticized you for demonstrating spiritual pride? Yes, I did, and I think you have, in your posts and ripostes proven that repeatedly. So why continue, why don't you just let the subject rest? What are you trying to prove?


Wiki says:

"A peanut gallery was, in the days of vaudeville, a nickname for the cheapest and ostensibly rowdiest seats in the theater, the occupants of which were often known to heckle the performers.[1] The least expensive snack served at the theatre would often be peanuts, which the patrons would sometimes throw at the performers on stage to convey their disapproval. Phrases such as "no comments from the peanut gallery" or "quiet in the peanut gallery" are extensions of the name.[1]"

I don't disdain or criticize the peanut gallery but do find what and when they heckle and don't interesting to compare and consider. Is such consideration arrogant? Is a heckler arrogant? What do they contribute?

Why continue? Perhaps to discover, learn, and understand issues related to the topic being discussed? Am I the one protesting overmuch here?

Perhaps I find double standards a most ironic study of their own. Thanks for your contributions to the discussion and topic.

8)


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 Post subject: Re: Spiritual Pride
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pethuel wrote:
Methinks thou dost protest too much, to paraphrase Shakespeare's Queen Gertrude in "Hamlet". Why are you making such a fuss? It's really not necessary is it? Spiritual pride is demonstrated in a lack of tolerance for the mistakes of others, in dismissing others' thoughts and opinions with a perfunctory wave of your mouse and generally giving the impression that your views are the only valid views. Do I think you demonstrate spiritual pride in the way you address others you disagree with? Yes I do, I think that some comments manifest spiritual pride, especially when taking an aggressive and critical position. Did I demonstrate spiritual pride when I criticized you for demonstrating spiritual pride? Yes, I did, and I think you have, in your posts and ripostes proven that repeatedly. So why continue, why don't you just let the subject rest? What are you trying to prove?


Brilliantly stated! Thank you so much for your acute perceptions and the bravery to express them. I take one solace and one alone. It's apparently okay to repeat the words of Gareth van Onselen:

Quote:
The ad hominem attack is mediocrity’s calling card.
.


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 Post subject: Re: Spiritual Pride
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:roll: Another tool of the sanctimonious and self righteous among us demonstrating spiritual pride for our review and consideration. Thank you.

feign

[fān]

VERB

feigns (third person present) · feigned (past tense) · feigned (past participle) · feigning(present participle)

pretend to be affected by (a feeling, state, or injury).

"she feigned nervousness"

synonyms:

simulate · fake · sham · affect · give the appearance of · make a show of · make a pretense of · play at · go through the motions of · put on · pretend · put it on · bluff · pose · posture · masquerade · make believe · act · playact · go through the motions · put on a false display · malinger · kid · mess · pretended · simulated · assumed · affected · artificial · insincere · put-on · faked · false · apparent · ostensible · seeming · surface · avowed · professed · pseudo · phoney · fakey · cod

antonyms:

sincere





To indulge in pretense.

ORIGIN

Middle English: from Old Frenchfeign-, stem of feindre, from Latinfingere‘mold, contrive’. Senses in Middle English (taken from Latin) included ‘make something’, ‘invent a story, excuse, or allegation’, hence ‘make a pretense of a feeling or response’. Compare with fiction and figment.


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 Post subject: Re: Spiritual Pride
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SEla_Kelly wrote:
I guess my own pride is the only one worth examining.


Yet the religion of Jesus does not provide for self-examination except as a way to recognize conceited egotism. I don't think you suffer from that at all.

(1583.1) 140:8.27 The three apostles were shocked this afternoon when they realized that their Master’s religion made no provision for spiritual self-examination. All religions before and after the times of Jesus, even Christianity, carefully provide for conscientious self-examination. But not so with the religion of Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus’ philosophy of life is without religious introspection. The carpenter’s son never taught character building; he taught character growth, declaring that the kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed. But Jesus said nothing which would proscribe self-analysis as a prevention of conceited egotism.


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:-$


Last edited by fanofVan on Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:52 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Spiritual Pride
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katroofjebus wrote:
SEla_Kelly wrote:
I guess my own pride is the only one worth examining.


Yet the religion of Jesus does not provide for self-examination except as a way to recognize conceited egotism. I don't think you suffer from that at all.

(1583.1) 140:8.27 The three apostles were shocked this afternoon when they realized that their Master’s religion made no provision for spiritual self-examination. All religions before and after the times of Jesus, even Christianity, carefully provide for conscientious self-examination. But not so with the religion of Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus’ philosophy of life is without religious introspection. The carpenter’s son never taught character building; he taught character growth, declaring that the kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed. But Jesus said nothing which would proscribe self-analysis as a prevention of conceited egotism.


Thanks Kat, I knew I had seen that quote somewhere but I couldn't find it. Just what I needed this morning!


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katroofjebus wrote:
(1583.1) 140:8.27 The three apostles were shocked this afternoon when they realized that their Master’s religion made no provision for spiritual self-examination. All religions before and after the times of Jesus, even Christianity, carefully provide for conscientious self-examination. But not so with the religion of Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus’ philosophy of life is without religious introspection. The carpenter’s son never taught character building; he taught character growth, declaring that the kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed. But Jesus said nothing which would proscribe self-analysis as a prevention of conceited egotism.


Quite an important observation. But on the other hand it is not a call to be caught unaware of something important happening in one's soul I believe.


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Riktare wrote:
katroofjebus wrote:
(1583.1) 140:8.27 The three apostles were shocked this afternoon when they realized that their Master’s religion made no provision for spiritual self-examination. All religions before and after the times of Jesus, even Christianity, carefully provide for conscientious self-examination. But not so with the religion of Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus’ philosophy of life is without religious introspection. The carpenter’s son never taught character building; he taught character growth, declaring that the kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed. But Jesus said nothing which would proscribe self-analysis as a prevention of conceited egotism.


Quite an important observation. But on the other hand it is not a call to be caught unaware of something important happening in one's soul I believe.



Agreed, but without the "Atomic Power Through Fasting" folderol


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Riktare wrote:
Quite an important observation. But on the other hand it is not a call to be caught unaware of something important happening in one's soul I believe.


I don't think conceited egotism is something that happens in the soul. I think it's something that prevents soul growth, and if it becomes habitual, can cause soul death. Self-analysis is supposed to prevent conceited egotism from ever getting a foothold. In my opinion, once it does, the self can no longer analyze the phenomenon. It becomes self-perpetuating and blinding. Instead of analyzing the self, a conceited egotist analyzes others and deflects all criticism of the ego, such as happened with Lucifer.

The soul requires spiritual insight for self-reflection but the material mind uses the moral conscience for analyzing itself. The soul is not the conscience but it does use the moral seed bed arising from the conscience for growth because morality is the urge to be unselfish. The moral zone is also that second cosmic reality reflex which labors to connect the outer and inner reality of the lower mind with the higher mind. A conceited egotist is a selfish personality losing its grip on reality which soon isolates it. Morality only exists between personalities. An isolated personality cannot be a moral personality. It's too busy with itself.

(1738.1) 156:5.2 Let every man make sure that the intellectual and moral foundations of character are such as will adequately support the superstructure of the enlarging and ennobling spiritual nature, which is thus to transform the mortal mind and then, in association with that re-created mind, is to achieve the evolvement of the soul of immortal destiny.

(1478:4) 133:6.5 "The soul is the self-reflective, truth-discerning, and spirit-perceiving part of man which forever elevates the human being above the level of the animal world. Self-consciousness, in and of itself, is not the soul. Moral self-consciousness is true human self-realization and constitutes the foundation of the human soul, and the soul is that part of man which represents the potential survival value of human experience. Moral choice and spiritual attainment, the ability to know God and the urge to be like him, are the characteristics of the soul. The soul of man cannot exist apart from moral thinking and spiritual activity. A stagnant soul is a dying soul. But the soul of man is distinct from the divine spirit which dwells within the mind. The divine spirit arrives simultaneously with the first moral activity of the human mind, and that is the occasion of the birth of the soul.

(192.3) 16:6.7 2. Duty — the reality domain of morals in the philosophic realm, the arena of reason, the recognition of relative right and wrong. This is the judicial form of the cosmic discrimination.


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 Post subject: Re: Spiritual Pride
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Bonita...you claim conceit and egotism (pride) doesn't happen in the soul. But soul is our morontial being and mind and the rebellion was begun and led by such egotistical spiritual pride. Such a belief seems self contradictory.

You also claim that material minded egotism and pride can kill the soul and prevents its growth and spiritual progress. I wonder if you think the Apostles killed their souls by the endless, ever persistent egotism they displayed right up to the last supper and beyond? Did ego and pride prevent Abner and James from reconciliation with Peter and the Western Church?

You claim pride is blinding and we are unconscious of its grip. And you claim pride causes us to lose our grip on reality. Hmmmm.... I wonder if we aren't born with ego and nurtured in pride and such a normal and natural, albeit self centered, perspective is simply something to recognize and manage or contain as we grow and progress in the Spirit?

I agree it can become self destructive as in Lucifer's example, but I am also confident that the prideful Apostles survived their robust egos too. Perhaps there are many degrees of its effect and grip and perhaps its influence can be dampened and overcome by faith? Let us so hope for all our sakes for I know few or none without ego.

I also will take exception with your declaration that isolated persons cannot be moral. What a peculiar and judgmental proclamation! God is with us all. Even isolated people have this relationship. I would agree with the value potential of socialization ideally. And yet isolation might be preferable to many social environments some people are subjected to.


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I hope I don't offend anyone, but I don't believe any one of you is suffering from "spiritual pride". O:)

We can use the accusation as a sword to wound a perceived antagonist, but this just demonstrates immaturity, in my opinion. Real spiritual pride, the kind that leads to self adoration, evil, and sin - Lucifer being the epitome - do you sincerely believe any of your brothers and sisters in these forums has demonstrated that?

Let's not conflate our discussions and arguments by making such accusations. And if accused, we shouldn't feel the need to defend ourselves. Isn't there an adage - the degree of truth in an argument is in inverse proportion to its defense?

We are all taking baby steps in our quest for eternity, but we cannot grow without a family being a part of it, without the Universe being a part of it. We will grate on each other until we are run smooth.


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