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katroofjebus wrote:
rick warren wrote:
Social evolution isn't on civilization's radar, is it? Can't recall ever reading about it, except maybe in retrospect, by some astute historian.


I can't agree that social evolution isn't on civilization's radar. That's exactly the cause of our current turmoil and recognition of its basic facts might actually be helpful. Social justice warriors are extremely active and their work, as they see it, is to initiate social evolution in the direction they interpret as ideal. If you haven't read anything about that, then may I suggest you do?

rick warren wrote:
We could at least define it ala UB. It's mentioned a dozen times.


In terms of a definition, I think the Revelation equates it with the appearance of the brotherhood of man on earth, something that evolves and eventually comes to full bloom in the epochs of light and life. But I ask again, what about the basic facts we should not fail to recognize?

I think basically social evolution is driven by inner divine forces. When society loses sight of God, it becomes merely the kingdom of good, and that's not where social evolution is really headed. It's a side-trip along the way. So many are now venturing down those side roads and are lost directionally because they have not recognized the basic fact that drives social evolution. And that is God himself, who is represented by his Son, the Spirit of Truth, who directs the loving contact between persons, those who make up society.


That was said so concisely, we may not need another thread :smile:

You asked and answered the question perfectly. Who knew, it's all about God recognition and directionalization?! We do know there are many out there working for social evolution, but as you point out, they may not know what exactly, or generally, it constitutes, or where it's headed. You do well pointing out social evolution is only comprehensible knowing the purpose of evolution, no doubt by understanding origin, history and destiny. I like the slogan, "God created evolution," but that seems to offend both religionists and non. Life!

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rick warren wrote:
That was said so concisely, we may not need another thread

You asked and answered the question perfectly. Who knew, it's all about God recognition and directionalization?! We do know there are many out there working for social evolution, but as you point out, they may not know what exactly, or generally, it constitutes, or where it's headed. You do well pointing out social evolution is only comprehensible knowing the purpose of evolution, no doubt by understanding origin, history and destiny. I like the slogan, "God created evolution," but that seems to offend both religionists and non. Life!


Thank you Rick. So you think the basic facts of social evolution involve its origin, history, purpose and destiny? I would add its cause. Biological and social evolution are not necessarily correlated, but they are eventually related as cause and effect as mentioned in the reference below. It is written that evolution is the cosmic technique of growth but man cannot cause it to happen. What then is the cause? Man can only provide the conditions for growth, which includes social conditions. If humans do not understand that which constitutes favorable conditions for social evolution, it will wander down uncorrelated paths. To recognize favorable conditions for social evolution, I believe society must also recognize its Divine cause.

(905.6) 81:5.1 Biologic evolution and cultural civilization are not necessarily correlated; organic evolution in any age may proceed unhindered in the very midst of cultural decadence. But when lengthy periods of human history are surveyed, it will be observed that eventually evolution and culture become related as cause and effect. Evolution may advance in the absence of culture, but cultural civilization does not flourish without an adequate background of antecedent racial progression. Adam and Eve introduced no art of civilization foreign to the progress of human society, but the Adamic blood did augment the inherent ability of the races and did accelerate the pace of economic development and industrial progression. Adam's bestowal improved the brain power of the races, thereby greatly hastening the processes of natural evolution.

(1097.4) 100:3.7 Man cannot cause growth, but he can supply favorable conditions. Growth is always unconscious, be it physical, intellectual, or spiritual. Love thus grows; it cannot be created, manufactured, or purchased; it must grow. Evolution is a cosmic technique of growth. Social growth cannot be secured by legislation, and moral growth is not had by improved administration. Man may manufacture a machine, but its real value must be derived from human culture and personal appreciation. Man's sole contribution to growth is the mobilization of the total powers of his personality — living faith.


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3. Failure to recognize the basic facts of social evolution.

Kat comments:

katroofjebus wrote:
I can't agree that social evolution isn't on civilization's radar. That's exactly the cause of our current turmoil and recognition of its basic facts might actually be helpful. Social justice warriors are extremely active and their work, as they see it, is to initiate social evolution in the direction they interpret as ideal. If you haven't read anything about that, then may I suggest you do?

In terms of a definition, I think the Revelation equates it with the appearance of the brotherhood of man on earth, something that evolves and eventually comes to full bloom in the epochs of light and life. But I ask again, what about the basic facts we should not fail to recognize?

I think basically social evolution is driven by inner divine forces. When society loses sight of God, it becomes merely the kingdom of good, and that's not where social evolution is really headed. It's a side-trip along the way. So many are now venturing down those side roads and are lost directionally because they have not recognized the basic fact that drives social evolution. And that is God himself, who is represented by his Son, the Spirit of Truth, who directs the loving contact between persons, those who make up society.


Very interesting. I would only add a few supporting observations. There are many celestial agents of social evolution in addition to the spiritual transformation of individuals that are mysterious to me but highly functional and effective.

52:6.7 (598.2) 5. Spiritual insight. The brotherhood of man is, after all, predicated on the recognition of the fatherhood of God. The quickest way to realize the brotherhood of man on Urantia is to effect the spiritual transformation of present-day humanity. The only technique for accelerating the natural trend of social evolution is that of applying spiritual pressure from above, thus augmenting moral insight while enhancing the soul capacity of every mortal to understand and love every other mortal. Mutual understanding and fraternal love are transcendent civilizers and mighty factors in the world-wide realization of the brotherhood of man.

114:6.4 (1255.3) The twelve corps of the master seraphim of planetary supervision are functional on Urantia as follows:

114:6.5 (1255.4) 1. The epochal angels.These are the angels of the current age, the dispensational group. These celestial ministers are intrusted with the oversight and direction of the affairs of each generation as they are designed to fit into the mosaic of the age in which they occur. The present corps of epochal angels serving on Urantia is the third group assigned to the planet during the current dispensation.

114:6.6 (1255.5) 2. The progress angels.These seraphim are intrusted with the task of initiating the evolutionary progress of the successive social ages. They foster the development of the inherent progressive trend of evolutionary creatures; they labor incessantly to make things what they ought to be. The group now on duty is the second to be assigned to the planet.

114:6.8 (1255.7) 4. The angels of nation life. These are the “angels of the trumpets,” directors of the political performances of Urantia national life. The group now functioning in the overcontrol of international relations is the fourth corps to serve on the planet. It is particularly through the ministry of this seraphic division that “the Most Highs rule in the kingdoms of men.”

114:6.10 (1255.9) 6. The angels of the future. These are the projection angels, who forecast a future age and plan for the realization of the better things of a new and advancing dispensation; they are the architects of the successive eras. The group now on the planet has thus functioned since the beginning of the current dispensation.

114:6.11 (1256.1) 7. The angels of enlightenment. Urantia is now receiving the help of the third corps of seraphim dedicated to the fostering of planetary education. These angels are occupied with mental and moral training as it concerns individuals, families, groups, schools, communities, nations, and whole races.

114:6.14 (1256.4) 10. The angels of industry. This seraphic group is concerned with fostering industrial development and improving economic conditions among the Urantia peoples. This corps has been seven times changed since the bestowal of Michael.

114:6.15 (1256.5) 11. The angels of diversion. These are the seraphim who foster the values of play, humor, and rest. They ever seek to uplift man’s recreational diversions and thus to promote the more profitable utilization of human leisure. The present corps is the third of that order to minister on Urantia.

114:6.19 (1256.9) The master seraphim of planetary supervision utilize many agencies for the prosecution of their missions. They function as ideational clearinghouses, mind focalizers, and project promoters. While unable to inject new and higher conceptions into human minds, they often act to intensify some higher ideal which has already appeared within a human intellect.

114:6.20 (1256.10) But aside from these many means of positive action, the master seraphim insure planetary progress against vital jeopardy through the mobilization, training, and maintenance of the reserve corps of destiny. The chief function of these reservists is to insure against breakdown of evolutionary progress; they are the provisions which the celestial forces have made against surprise; they are the guarantees against disaster.

Me here: The permanent citizens of oir world, the midwayers, and angels and reservists are always working for the social evolution of our world at the direction of the Most Highs.

I think much of what we see politically and culturally recently is a combination of two influences....the fear based resistance to progress and evolutionary change embracing the way things are and a fictional and misplaced nostalgia for some non-existant fantasy of a former golden era...the failure to recognize true evolutionary social progress.

It seems every older generation has resisted and lamented the accelerating social and cultural evolution of younger generations despite their own such experience of cultural criticism and resistance. But it's too late to go back....

99:1.3 (1086.6) Urantia society can never hope to settle down as in past ages. The social ship has steamed out of the sheltered bays of established tradition and has begun its cruise upon the high seas of evolutionary destiny; and the soul of man, as never before in the world’s history, needs carefully to scrutinize its charts of morality and painstakingly to observe the compass of religious guidance. The paramount mission of religion as a social influence is to stabilize the ideals of mankind during these dangerous times of transition from one phase of civilization to another, from one level of culture to another.


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Not sure if this quote on 'social evolution' has been posted already. It's rather telling:

...The political or administrative form of a government is of little consequence provided it affords the essentials of civil progress—liberty, security, education, and social co-ordination. It is not what a state is but what it does that determines the course of social evolution. And after all, no state can transcend the moral values of its citizenry as exemplified in their chosen leaders. Ignorance and selfishness will insure the downfall of even the highest type of government.... 71:3.1

If we take these statement to heart, we have differential insights into the mechanics of upward social evolution.

It involves assuring freedom, safety, facts, and oversight, wise action and supernal values--especially in admins, and altruistic motivation.

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rick warren wrote:
.

Not sure if this quote on 'social evolution' has been posted already. It's rather telling:

...The political or administrative form of a government is of little consequence provided it affords the essentials of civil progress—liberty, security, education, and social co-ordination. It is not what a state is but what it does that determines the course of social evolution. And after all, no state can transcend the moral values of its citizenry as exemplified in their chosen leaders. Ignorance and selfishness will insure the downfall of even the highest type of government.... 71:3.1

If we take these statement to heart, we have differential insights into the mechanics of upward social evolution.

It involves assuring freedom, safety, facts, and oversight, wise action and supernal values--especially in admins, and altruistic motivation.

.


I agree but I'm drawn to the mention of moral values. The Revelation mentions that survival of society depends on the evolution of its mores.

(767.7) 68:4.7 The survival of a society depends chiefly on the progressive evolution of its mores. The process of custom evolution grows out of the desire for experimentation; new ideas are put forward — competition ensues. A progressing civilization embraces the progressive idea and endures; time and circumstance finally select the fitter group for survival. But this does not mean that each separate and isolated change in the composition of human society has been for the better. No! indeed no! for there have been many, many retrogressions in the long forward struggle of Urantia civilization.

Evolution of the mores appears to be dependent upon the land-man ratio.

(768.1) 68:5.1 Land is the stage of society; men are the actors. And man must ever adjust his performances to conform to the land situation. The evolution of the mores is always dependent on the land-man ratio. This is true notwithstanding the difficulty of its discernment. Man's land technique, or maintenance arts, plus his standards of living, equal the sum total of the folkways, the mores. And the sum of man's adjustment to the life demands equals his cultural civilization.

If failure to recognize the basics of social evolution includes failure to recognize evolution of the mores, then democracy depends upon securing an ideal land-man ration for its citizens. I've often wondered why this matters so much.


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katroofjebus wrote:

I agree but I'm drawn to the mention of moral values. The Revelation mentions that survival of society depends on the evolution of its mores.

If failure to recognize the basics of social evolution includes failure to recognize evolution of the mores, then democracy depends upon securing an ideal land-man ration for its citizens. I've often wondered why this matters so much.


There's the answer. The mores are evolving quickly. Too quickly for some. Spreading the concept of establishing a land/person ratio would seem to be called for. Maybe each nation will have to decide this one day soon. And maybe part of social evolution, at least social education, is that recognition of impending population saturation.




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rick warren wrote:
There's the answer. The mores are evolving quickly. Too quickly for some. Spreading the concept of establishing a land/person ratio would seem to be called for. Maybe each nation will have to decide this one day soon. And maybe part of social evolution, at least social education, is that recognition of impending population saturation.


Maybe that's why there is so much emphasis on stricter regulation of immigration both here and abroad? So many blame it on hate, but perhaps it is a submerged part of social evolution bubbling up to the surface. Time will tell. It's too soon to judge.

I've always been impressed by the fact that Elijah's work that led him to fuse with his Thought Adjuster had to do with land mores.

(1065.3) 97:3.6 Elijah shifted the Yahweh-Baal controversy from the land issue to the religious aspect of Hebrew and Canaanite ideologies. When Ahab murdered the Naboths in the intrigue to get possession of their land, Elijah made a moral issue out of the olden land mores and launched his vigorous campaign against the Baalites. This was also a fight of the country folk against domination by the cities. It was chiefly under Elijah that Yahweh became Elohim. The prophet began as an agrarian reformer and ended up by exalting Deity. Baals were many, Yahweh was one — monotheism won over polytheism.


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katroofjebus wrote:
rick warren wrote:
There's the answer. The mores are evolving quickly. Too quickly for some. Spreading the concept of establishing a land/person ratio would seem to be called for. Maybe each nation will have to decide this one day soon. And maybe part of social evolution, at least social education, is that recognition of impending population saturation.


Maybe that's why there is so much emphasis on stricter regulation of immigration both here and abroad? So many blame it on hate, but perhaps it is a submerged part of social evolution bubbling up to the surface. Time will tell. It's too soon to judge.

I've always been impressed by the fact that Elijah's work that led him to fuse with his Thought Adjuster had to do with land mores.

(1065.3) 97:3.6 Elijah shifted the Yahweh-Baal controversy from the land issue to the religious aspect of Hebrew and Canaanite ideologies. When Ahab murdered the Naboths in the intrigue to get possession of their land, Elijah made a moral issue out of the olden land mores and launched his vigorous campaign against the Baalites. This was also a fight of the country folk against domination by the cities. It was chiefly under Elijah that Yahweh became Elohim. The prophet began as an agrarian reformer and ended up by exalting Deity. Baals were many, Yahweh was one — monotheism won over polytheism.


Land mores! Weren't the Baalites promoters of private property?
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Maybe that's why there is so much emphasis on stricter regulation of immigration both here and abroad? So many blame it on hate, but perhaps it is a submerged part of social evolution bubbling up to the surface. Time will tell. It's too soon to judge.


I tend to agree. And it's interesting the sperm count is dropping, I hear.



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rick warren wrote:
Land mores! Weren't the Baalites promoters of private property?


Yes, but it was about conflict over the land mores, between the religious interpretation of the use of land and the secular abuse of land.


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katroofjebus wrote:
68:5.1 Land is the stage of society; men are the actors. And man must ever adjust his performances to conform to the land situation. The evolution of the mores is always dependent on the land-man ratio.

If failure to recognize the basics of social evolution includes failure to recognize evolution of the mores, then democracy depends upon securing an ideal land-man ration for its citizens. I've often wondered why this matters so much.


Wow. Well land is the basis of a nation's renewable resources, especially food, clothing, building materials. Jesus once proposed that man should live in wooden dwellingplaces instead of stone. He was truly alive at the dawn of a new age where mechanics were aiding the very potent manpower that existed during those days. "if you have faith, you can move mountains", and nowadays, we can enlist the informational algorithms, logic-based command operations, in the machines. But none of our technology actually helps an farmer to prepare the soil, to optimise the increase of the lands he owns. It is a matter of chemistry, of interharmony with the ecology of Urantia. You have land? You can change the climate by maintaining your own chosen variety of plants, suited and geared towards your own purposes. Those are the things given unto your keeping, and the beginning of the real test of building wealth, a prerequisite to prove to God that you are capable of tending the life that exists in the grand universe.

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SEla_Kelly wrote:
katroofjebus wrote:
68:5.1 Land is the stage of society; men are the actors. And man must ever adjust his performances to conform to the land situation. The evolution of the mores is always dependent on the land-man ratio.

If failure to recognize the basics of social evolution includes failure to recognize evolution of the mores, then democracy depends upon securing an ideal land-man ration for its citizens. I've often wondered why this matters so much.


Wow. Well land is the basis of a nation's renewable resources, especially food, clothing, building materials. Jesus once proposed that man should live in wooden dwellingplaces instead of stone. He was truly alive at the dawn of a new age where mechanics were aiding the very potent manpower that existed during those days. "if you have faith, you can move mountains", and nowadays, we can enlist the informational algorithms, logic-based command operations, in the machines. But none of our technology actually helps an farmer to prepare the soil, to optimise the increase of the lands he owns. It is a matter of chemistry, of interharmony with the ecology of Urantia. You have land? You can change the climate by maintaining your own chosen variety of plants, suited and geared towards your own purposes. Those are the things given unto your keeping, and the beginning of the real test of building wealth, a prerequisite to prove to God that you are capable of tending the life that exists in the grand universe.


Technology does not help farmers optimize land produce yield and output? Really??!! Surely you jest. Brother you are no farmer and know nothing about farming.

And we can change local or global climate by plant selection? Or both? :roll:

I look forward to the text on the wood vs. stone housing critique by Jesus.

The potent manpower of Roman slaves?

Back to the actual topic. The ratio is unique to each country and fresh water is also an issue per capita. All changes when we calculate globally. Science and technology constantly changes the ratio too.

It is irrational to suggest the anti-immigrant movements in Europe and the USA are a science based reasoned concern about land ratios. Please...let's not excuse bigotry and racism and rank nationalism that are so obvious to see...which defies the science of economics and actual population density.


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The potent manpower of slaves? Well yes you are correct but also the potent manpower of centurions and governors. Slaves who were willing to work and in those times secure a better status for themselves, in the tenderment or successful completion of their tasks. Of course even as Saint Paul professed, as a slave-servant of Christ, such status was certainly not seen as the least desirable in those times, as you might see the status of slave today.

128:1.1 With the attainment of adult years Jesus began in earnest and with full self-consciousness the task of completing the experience of mastering the knowledge of the life of his lowest form of intelligent creatures, thereby finally and fully earning the right of unqualified rulership of his self-created universe.

128:1.5 It is forever and gloriously true: “We have a high ruler who can be touched with the feeling of our infirmities. We have a Sovereign who was in all points tested and tempted like as we are, yet without sin.” And since he himself has suffered, being tested and tried, he is abundantly able to understand and minister to those who are confused and distressed.

128:5.4 “The house of Joseph has never received alms, and we cannot eat another's bread as long as I have strong arms and my brothers can labor.”

132:1.3 Unless the moral insight and the spiritual attainment of mankind are proportionately augmented, the unlimited advancement of a purely materialistic culture may eventually become a menace to civilization. A purely materialistic science harbors within itself the potential seed of the destruction of all scientific striving, for this very attitude presages the ultimate collapse of a civilization which has abandoned its sense of moral values and has repudiated its spiritual goal of attainment.
^ and if I can say, such materialism could be deemed as a mediocre pursuit, and also that the progress of political nationhood is a scientific pursuit of mankind civilization

132:2.4 The spiritually blind individual who logically follows scientific dictation, social usage, and religious dogma stands in grave danger of sacrificing his moral freedom and losing his spiritual liberty. Such a soul is destined to become an intellectual parrot, a social automaton, and a slave to religious authority.

132:4.5 He talked with a Roman senator on politics and statesmanship, and this one contact with Jesus made such an impression on this legislator that he spent the rest of his life vainly trying to induce his colleagues to change the course of the ruling policy from the idea of the government supporting and feeding the people to that of the people supporting the government. Jesus spent one evening with a wealthy slaveholder, talked about man as a son of God, and the next day this man, Claudius, gave freedom to one hundred and seventeen slaves. He visited at dinner with a Greek physician, telling him that his patients had minds and souls as well as bodies, and thus led this able doctor to attempt a more far-reaching ministry to his fellow men. He talked with all sorts of people in every walk of life. The only place in Rome he did not visit was the public baths. He refused to accompany his friends to the baths because of the sex promiscuity which there prevailed.

137:6.2 When Jesus stood up, the ruler of the synagogue handed him the Scripture roll, and he read from the Prophet Isaiah: “Thus says the Lord: ‘The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool. Where is the house that you built for me? And where is the place of my dwelling? All these things have my hands made,' says the Lord. ‘But to this man will I look, even to him who is poor and of a contrite spirit, and who trembles at my word.' Hear the word of the Lord, you who tremble and fear: ‘Your brethren hated you and cast you out for my name's sake.' But let the Lord be glorified. He shall appear to you in joy, and all others shall be ashamed. A voice from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice from the Lord says: ‘Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.' Who has heard such a thing? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? Or can a nation be born at once? But thus says the Lord: ‘Behold I will extend peace like a river, and the glory of even the gentiles shall be like a flowing stream. As one whom his mother comforts, so will I comfort you. And you shall be comforted even in Jerusalem. And when you see these things, your heart shall rejoice.'”

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Last edited by SEla_Kelly on Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:34 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Willing slaves....another oxy moronic concept. :roll:

Where's the text on wood houses?

Paul a slave? God has slaves? Good Grief.

The one who here declares there is no free will now proclaims slavery in heaven?


Last edited by fanofVan on Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:40 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Well, the real question is how does Christ Michael listen to the faith-children of God, the faith sons of Urantia, or through His Divine Minister of Salvington, how through the consideration of every prayer, our Deliverer or through the jurisdiction of the seraphic planetary government, let us say the Most Highs of Edentia know when it is proper season for mankind to experience the challenges of greater liberty. But you also should consider necessities, if there is urgent or necessary work to be performed on Urantia, and who will be wise enough to partake of such duties,

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SEla_Kelly wrote:
Well, the real question is how does Christ Michael listen to the faith-children of God, the faith sons of Urantia, or through His Divine Minister of Salvington, how through the consideration of every prayer, our Deliverer or through the jurisdiction of the seraphic planetary government, let us say the Most Highs of Edentia know when it is proper season for mankind to experience the challenges of greater liberty. But you also should consider necessities, if there is urgent or necessary work to be performed on Urantia, and who will be wise enough to partake of such duties,


There is not greater or lesser liberty....only false and true liberty. How is there liberty without free will? Especially for God's slaves?


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