Urantia Book Forum

Urantia Book Discussion Board : Study Group
It is currently Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:38 pm +0000

All times are UTC - 7 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 196 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 ... 14  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: DANGERS OF DEMOCRACY
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:03 am +0000
Posts: 2251
Location: US
.

Lots of non-mediocre thoughts and relevant quotes from many good minds, thanks all.

Stagnation, standardization, sameness, monotony, all these keep coming into the thread (and another equally fascinating thread running simultaneously on the Association's Forum https://urantia-association.org/forums/topic/democracys-first-danger-mediocrity/), and under the rubric of mediocrity. Indolence also appears repeatedly. And maybe they all fall under the general rubric of evil and error. Like error and evil, mediocrity seems to be a phase evolutionary civilizations must pass thru on the way to greatness in the far away ages of Light and Life. Mediocrity and error needn't be despised, only their glorification, eh?

.

_________________
Richard E Warren


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: DANGERS OF DEMOCRACY
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:21 am +0000
Posts: 989
well i think the papers in general go to great length to lead the reader away from mediocrity. everything about how to build/develop/grow a strong, unified and balanced character thru the associative liason of mind and spirit does that and the importance of the character of homes, schools and churches to each generation too. and true religion provides the supernal ideals that provide the escape from mediocrity as rodan discusses here:

Quote:
The social characteristics of a true religion consist in the fact that it invariably seeks to convert the individual and to transform the world. Religion implies the existence of undiscovered ideals which far transcend the known standards of ethics and morality embodied in even the highest social usages of the most mature institutions of civilization. Religion reaches out for undiscovered ideals, unexplored realities, superhuman values, divine wisdom, and true spirit attainment. True religion does all of this; all other beliefs are not worthy of the name.


Last edited by Makalu on Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:48 am +0000, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: DANGERS OF DEMOCRACY
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:07 am +0000
Posts: 981
From a great mind and soul who had a lot of experience with the pitfalls and privileges of democracy:

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."

- Winston Churchill


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: DANGERS OF DEMOCRACY
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:16 pm +0000
Posts: 1166
Location: Nanticoke NY
Okay and so the only thing about mediocrity and excellence that I want to point out is that yes I agree with someone who wrote that von Onselen appears to adhere to the principles of tUB, even if he had never read them. But with one exception, he states that human ideals are unattainable. I would agree with that in most cases. But yeah, maybe not every single instance of a human ideal. But you know what he meant: ideals that are ultimately not wrought in forebearance & wisdom.
Gareth von Onselen wrote:
Any ideal is ultimately unattainable.


This has more to do with the topic that William S. introduced about the environment, tUB, and civilization's impact on our environment. But I will put it here:

In tUB114 we encounter this topic, this phrase: "The Sovereignty of Urantia". This is certainly an implication that the planet does have watchcare. But does the phrase mean to imply that The Planet, itself (Herself?), will eventuate so as to have basic rights, upon the settled stages of Light and Life. Can Urantia have sovereignty as represented by Machiventa Melchizedek? What does that mean, for the entirety of the land to be considered to have sovereignty? How does the human individual protect the rights of his land, the ideal purposes and uses thereof? And can you say that this is the same, for Christ Michael as in Nebadon, that Nebadon, to a certain extent, represents this Creator Son, or what do you say about this? What would that mean, for Satania to be considered to have sovereignty, not just the sentient individuals who originated thereof?

_________________
to the Underlaying Unity of All Life so that the Voice of Intuition may guide Us closer to Our Common Keeper


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: DANGERS OF DEMOCRACY
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:16 pm +0000
Posts: 1166
Location: Nanticoke NY
And I do not mean to sound contentious here, but I want to point out that even though Bradley is a "fan" of Van, who is a righteous and noble figure in tUB, a great ascendant soul, it can be ultimately dangerous to become a 'fanatic', a devotee, of any man. If you were my fan, you would not shout out praises endlessly, but you would be humble and afraid to do anything that would give my name a bad impression in the minds of others. But I do not like fanatics, even when they are zealots in the name of Jesus Yahushua.

What if I made my screen name "FanofNod", but consider this: You would be more incredulous and doubtful, naturally, wouldn't you? The Nodites' instincts were good, but Amadon & Adamson's instincts were excellent and great. Well, but no I hate characters like "Zap Branigan" and those who overtly promise pleasure in order to gain the loyalty and/or approval of other human individuals.

There are persons to whom I am loyal: Larry Watkins, Bob Marley, Jemima Wilkinson. There are souls whom I would hope to be said to have acted in a loyal way towards: Nicodemus, Lhasa de Sela, Chris D'Abbracci, John the Baptist, but that is beyond my capacity to act. I point out that Bradley has accused me of "having an affectation", and "being loyal to the Devil", but since he did not explain what kind of affectation, and again "devil" is not the name of a specific person to whom one could render loyalty, then I have a difficulty in accepting his suggestions.

_________________
to the Underlaying Unity of All Life so that the Voice of Intuition may guide Us closer to Our Common Keeper


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: DANGERS OF DEMOCRACY
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:52 am +0000
Posts: 1036
SEla_Kelly wrote:
Okay and so the only thing about mediocrity and excellence that I want to point out is that yes I agree with someone who wrote that von Onselen appears to adhere to the principles of tUB, even if he had never read them. But with one exception, he states that human ideals are unattainable. I would agree with that in most cases. But yeah, maybe not every single instance of a human ideal. But you know what he meant: ideals that are ultimately not wrought in forebearance & wisdom.
Gareth von Onselen wrote:
Any ideal is ultimately unattainable.


This has more to do with the topic that William S. introduced about the environment, tUB, and civilization's impact on our environment. But I will put it here:

In tUB114 we encounter this topic, this phrase: "The Sovereignty of Urantia". This is certainly an implication that the planet does have watchcare. But does the phrase mean to imply that The Planet, itself (Herself?), will eventuate so as to have basic rights, upon the settled stages of Light and Life. Can Urantia have sovereignty as represented by Machiventa Melchizedek? What does that mean, for the entirety of the land to be considered to have sovereignty? How does the human individual protect the rights of his land, the ideal purposes and uses thereof? And can you say that this is the same, for Christ Michael as in Nebadon, that Nebadon, to a certain extent, represents this Creator Son, or what do you say about this? What would that mean, for Satania to be considered to have sovereignty, not just the sentient individuals who originated thereof?


The definition of "ideal" is a standard of perfection. We live in an imperfect world and are imperfect beings; therefore, perfection is unattainable in our mortal existence.

As for the sovereignty of Urantia, paper 114 sets it out pretty clearly.

Quote:
P1250:12, 114:1.1 The original sovereignty of Urantia was held in trust by the sovereign of the Satania system. It was first delegated by him to a joint commission of Melchizedeks and Life Carriers, and this group functioned on Urantia until the arrival of a regularly constituted Planetary Prince. Subsequent to the downfall of Prince Caligastia, at the time of the Lucifer rebellion, Urantia had no sure and settled relationship with the local universe and its administrative divisions until the completion of Michael's bestowal in the flesh, when he was proclaimed, by the Union of Days, Planetary Prince of Urantia. Such a proclamation in surety and in principle forever settled the status of your world, but in practice the Sovereign Creator Son made no gesture of personal administration of the planet aside from the establishment of the Jerusem commission of twenty-four former Urantians with authority to represent him in the government of Urantia and all other quarantined planets in the system. One of this council is now always resident on Urantia as resident governor general.

P1251:1, 114:1.2 Vicegerent authority to act for Michael as Planetary Prince has been recently vested in Machiventa Melchizedek, but this Son of the local universe has made not the slightest move toward modifying the present planetary regime of the successive administrations of the resident governors general.

P1251:2, 114:1.3 There is little likelihood that any marked change will be made in the government of Urantia during the present dispensation unless the vicegerent Planetary Prince should arrive to assume his titular responsibilities. It appears to certain of our associates that at some time in the near future the plan of sending one of the twenty-four counselors to Urantia to act as governor general will be superseded by the formal arrival of Machiventa Melchizedek with the vicegerent mandate of the sovereignty of Urantia. As acting Planetary Prince he would undoubtedly continue in charge of the planet until the final adjudication of the Lucifer rebellion and probably on into the distant future of planetary settlement in light and life.


It has to do with the authority and the independence of the planet in terms of its governance. So it does apply to the sentient individuals, not to the planet/ chunk of rock that we call earth.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: DANGERS OF DEMOCRACY
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 4428
SEla_Kelly wrote:
And I do not mean to sound contentious here, but I want to point out that even though Bradley is a "fan" of Van, who is a righteous and noble figure in tUB, a great ascendant soul, it can be ultimately dangerous to become a 'fanatic', a devotee, of any man. If you were my fan, you would not shout out praises endlessly, but you would be humble and afraid to do anything that would give my name a bad impression in the minds of others. But I do not like fanatics, even when they are zealots in the name of Jesus Yahushua.

What if I made my screen name "FanofNod", but consider this: You would be more incredulous and doubtful, naturally, wouldn't you? The Nodites' instincts were good, but Amadon & Adamson's instincts were excellent and great. Well, but no I hate characters like "Zap Branigan" and those who overtly promise pleasure in order to gain the loyalty and/or approval of other human individuals.

There are persons to whom I am loyal: Larry Watkins, Bob Marley, Jemima Wilkinson. There are souls whom I would hope to be said to have acted in a loyal way towards: Nicodemus, Lhasa de Sela, Chris D'Abbracci, John the Baptist, but that is beyond my capacity to act. I point out that Bradley has accused me of "having an affectation", and "being loyctatcal to the Devil", but since he did not explain what kind of affectation, and again "devil" is not the name of a specific person to whom one could render loyalty, then I have a difficulty in accepting his suggestions.


Actually I did explain your affectation and pointed out many issues you directly contradict the Revelation by your declarations, at least one of which you have now repeated again - the Nodites instincts were NOT good Stephen, again you defy the UB. The devil is Caligastia the Prince and chief Urantia rebel according to the UB. I know you have been told this before....another example of affectation is feigned ignorance.

53:1.4 (602.1) ....The “devil” is none other than Caligastia, the deposed Planetary Prince of Urantia and a Son of the secondary order of Lanonandeks. At the time Michael was on Urantia in the flesh, Lucifer, Satan, and Caligastia were leagued together to effect the miscarriage of his bestowal mission. But they signally failed.

And you cannot be loyal to people you have never known Stephen - a very creepy claim. The UB says something about rebellion adjudication awaiting the end of all sympathy and sympathizers. Those who claim sympathy for the Devil and Satan and Lucifer...and Nod...as you have and do, I wonder.

And still you ignore the issues of your many contradictions to the UB and your defense of rebels, rebellion, and the Manifesto. You persist with your admiration still again here.

Reposted:

Loyalty to what or to whom? Not the text or to its readers and sincere students or TruthBook. Obviously not. No one here, not even everyone here combined, has written so many factual contradictions as you Stephen on this forum. The list is very long indeed and these falsehoods are not minor or subtle but are important in many meaningful ways.

You could have answered kat's questions without such false statements about the text....so why make them?? You do so in ways that profoundly rewrite and change the contents and the meaning of the Papers. and show your continued support of the rebellion and those who chose to join in the heresies of the rebellion.

You claimed that the rebellion did no harm or "inhibit evolutionary progress" on Urantia. Absurd!! You pretend you do not know of the devastation to our world in your defense of rebels and rebellion!! A constant theme of yours but hardly the only factual errors you endlessly claim and declare here!!

5. Immediate Results of Rebellion

67:5.1 (758.6) Great confusion reigned in Dalamatia and thereabout for almost fifty years after the instigation of rebellion. The complete and radical reorganization of the whole world was attempted; revolution displaced evolution as the policy of cultural advancement and racial improvement. Among the superior and partially trained sojourners in and near Dalamatia there appeared a sudden advancement in cultural status, but when these new and radical methods were attempted on the outlying peoples, indescribable confusion and racial pandemonium was the immediate result. Liberty was quickly translated into license by the half-evolved primitive men of those days.

67:5.2 (758.7) Very soon after the rebellion the entire staff of sedition were engaged in energetic defense of the city against the hordes of semisavages who besieged its walls as a result of the doctrines of liberty which had been prematurely taught them. And years before the beautiful headquarters went down beneath the southern waves, the misled and mistaught tribes of the Dalamatia hinterland had already swept down in semisavage assault on the splendid city, driving the secession staff and their associates northward.

67:5.3 (759.1) The Caligastia scheme for the immediate reconstruction of human society in accordance with his ideas of individual freedom and group liberties, proved a swift and more or less complete failure. Society quickly sank back to its old biologic level, and the forward struggle began all over, starting not very far in advance of where it was at the beginning of the Caligastia regime, this upheaval having left the world in confusion worse confounded.

67:5.4 (759.2) One hundred and sixty-two years after the rebellion a tidal wave swept up over Dalamatia, and the planetary headquarters sank beneath the waters of the sea, and this land did not again emerge until almost every vestige of the noble culture of those splendid ages had been obliterated.

Me here: You then compare the mediocrity of today's democracy as far more damaged and dangerous somehow than the very fall of Eden itself!! Again excusing and justifying rebellion and rebels!! Of course it is you and only you here at TruthBook that declares and proclaims that Lucifer was doing God's will BY REBELLION and the Manifesto and then praises our local rebels!

You invent and then extol the virtues of Nod by claiming he and his rebels followers "sacrificed their immortality for the sake of the Nodite civilization" and declare how virtuous and wise were their instincts....these enemies of Van and Amadon and true liberty and Urantia's peaceful evolutionary progress, these upholders of license and false liberty! In reality, they were found guilty of sedition and rebellion and deprived of the Tree of Life and suffered sorely for their disloyalty and betrayal of trust.

WOW!! You should be in marketing and public relations!! Oh yeah, you are...for the Devil himself! The doctor of spin for rebellion and rebels. Here at a study group for readers of the Revelation are you endlessly misrepresenting its contents and supporting the rebels and their cause! So obvious. So consistently. Nothing the least bit subtle about it. But not limited to that, you also preach pre-existence of souls and many other contradictions to the UB Stephen...as has been pointed out over the years.

As to the disastrous effects of the Adamic default, another victim of rebellion which cost untold and immeasurable damage - which you choose to AGAIN coverup and spin in your fashion, our world was still reeling from the consequences of rebellion which cost us dearly and still does today - despite your lies to the contrary:

7. Remote Repercussions of Sin

67:7.1 (760.6) The personal (centripetal) consequences of the creature’s willful and persistent rejection of light are both inevitable and individual and are of concern only to Deity and to that personal creature. Such a soul-destroying harvest of iniquity is the inner reaping of the iniquitous will creature.

67:7.2 (761.1) But not so with the external repercussions of sin: The impersonal (centrifugal) consequences of embraced sin are both inevitable and collective, being of concern to every creature functioning within the affect-range of such events.

67:7.3 (761.2) By fifty thousand years after the collapse of the planetary administration, earthly affairs were so disorganized and retarded that the human race had gained very little over the general evolutionary status existing at the time of Caligastia’s arrival three hundred and fifty thousand years previously. In certain respects progress had been made; in other directions much ground had been lost.

67:7.4 (761.3) Sin is never purely local in its effects. The administrative sectors of the universes are organismal; the plight of one personality must to a certain extent be shared by all. Sin, being an attitude of the person toward reality, is destined to exhibit its inherent negativistic harvest upon any and all related levels of universe values. But the full consequences of erroneous thinking, evil-doing, or sinful planning are experienced only on the level of actual performance. The transgression of universe law may be fatal in the physical realm without seriously involving the mind or impairing the spiritual experience. Sin is fraught with fatal consequences to personality survival only when it is the attitude of the whole being, when it stands for the choosing of the mind and the willing of the soul.

67:7.5 (761.4) Evil and sin visit their consequences in material and social realms and may sometimes even retard spiritual progress on certain levels of universe reality, but never does the sin of any being rob another of the realization of the divine right of personality survival. Eternal survival can be jeopardized only by the decisions of the mind and the choice of the soul of the individual himself.

67:7.6 (761.5) Sin on Urantia did very little to delay biologic evolution, but it did operate to deprive the mortal races of the full benefit of the Adamic inheritance. Sin enormously retards intellectual development, moral growth, social progress, and mass spiritual attainment. But it does not prevent the highest spiritual achievement by any individual who chooses to know God and sincerely do his divine will.

Me here: Many of us have hope that Nod and the rebel staff have already repented and will once again be re-united with their Adjusters to continue their ascension careers. Their natural deaths on this planet of service-assignment does not prevent their eternal adventure I do not think....but there was certainly nothing wise nor noble about the cause of their deaths on Urantia....it was rebellion and betrayal and disloyalty and failure that caused their end here on our world. Make no mistake about it!!

As a fanof Van and Amadon, it is so disappointing and alarming to find one here who celebrates Nod and the rebels but you have been here a long, long time doing the exact same thing over and over....so the true disappointment is with those who support this poster and defend him and protect him and declare him of good heart and sincerity! Horse Feathers! Get a grip! Such voices and their support and their wall of silence about Stephen's declarations of support for the rebels is its own epicenter of error and risk and danger here at TruthBook. A true demonstration of mediocrity and its result IMO!

Much of the problem related to mediocrity today is certainly a result of rebellion and default...despite what anyone may claim otherwise!! R5he immediate danger here to this study group is the poison to the group dynamic and purpose by the embrace and protection of evil/error that is a freely provided pulpit and audience without objection.

67:4.2 (757.5) The sixty members of the planetary staff who went into rebellion chose Nod as their leader. They worked wholeheartedly for the rebel Prince but soon discovered that they were deprived of the sustenance of the system life circuits. They awakened to the fact that they had been degraded to the status of mortal beings. They were indeed superhuman but, at the same time, material and mortal. In an effort to increase their numbers, Daligastia ordered immediate resort to sexual reproduction, knowing full well that the original sixty and their forty-four modified Andonite associates were doomed to suffer extinction by death, sooner or later. After the fall of Dalamatia the disloyal staff migrated to the north and the east. Their descendants were long known as the Nodites, and their dwelling place as “the land of Nod.”

67:4.5 (758.3) When the staff of one hundred came to Urantia, they were temporarily detached from their Thought Adjusters. Immediately upon the arrival of the Melchizedek receivers the loyal personalities (except Van) were returned to Jerusem and were reunited with their waiting Adjusters. We know not the fate of the sixty staff rebels; their Adjusters still tarry on Jerusem. Matters will undoubtedly rest as they now are until the entire Lucifer rebellion is finally adjudicated and the fate of all participants decreed.

But congratulations Stephen for both Jim and Kat have decided to be defenders and champions for the defender and champion of rebels, rebellion, and the Manifesto. Well done. Impressive. But such defenders should reconsider the implications of such support and their silence in response to the direct falsification of the Revelation.

The truth and the UB have enemies. The story of the rebellion certainly demonstrates that reality and the need to choose. You are not the friend of truth by defending those in opposition to the truth. Good luck with that as you declare the purity of this one's heart and intentions here. Don't ignore the evidence of history here.

search.php?author_id=15198&sr=posts

Stephen has his own very unique style and content of topics and posts beginning 7 years ago. Beware to those who believe such a record to be irrelevant as a measure of today's contents and contradictions and beliefs and intentions. Only the blind will be led by the blind. Fair warning.

Stephen asks about his affectation. Not my claim. Kat posted the quote:

(557.1) 48:7.17 15. Affectation is the ridiculous effort of the ignorant to appear wise, the attempt of the barren soul to appear rich.

But I'm glad you asked Stephen!! The definition of affectation is provided below. Your pretense that you know the contents of the UB and present declarations and claims from the UB text when in fact you clearly distort, misrepresent, misstate, and contradict the contents of the UB is a textbook example of "affectation" as shown redundantly here at TruthBook and as exemplified above. You are either very ignorant of the contents of the UB or you deliberately distort and lie about the contents. Take your pick....either way it is "affectation"..."the ridiculous effort of the ignorant to appear wise"!

affectation
[ˌafekˈtāSH(ə)n]

NOUN
behavior, speech, or writing that is artificial and designed to impress.
"the affectation of a man who measures every word for effect" · [more]

synonyms:
pretension · pretentiousness · affectedness · artificiality · insincerity · posturing · posing · pretense · ostentation · grandiosity · snobbery · superciliousness · airs · [more]

a studied display of real or pretended feeling.
"an affectation of calm"

synonyms:
facade · front · show · appearance · false display · pretense · simulation · posture · pose · sham · fake · act · masquerade · charade · mask · cloak · veil ·

Bradly 8)


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: DANGERS OF DEMOCRACY
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:03 am +0000
Posts: 2251
Location: US
Riktare wrote:
The question of planetary sovereignty does bring up some interesting and perplexing questions:

- Who is the stakeholder of sovereignty? Is it the human inhabitants? The Midwayers? The angelic orders? The Life Carriers? Michael?
- What portion of the current residents from those classes have special rights or support from the government?
- Is the final decision power of the sovereignty inherent in one person always? A council?
- How do the wishes and needs of each citizen get represented?
- How are conflicts in governance policies between stakeholders and decision makers handled?


Riktare, not being about mediocrity, seems like your worthy questions ought to have a separate thread, no?

.

_________________
Richard E Warren


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: DANGERS OF DEMOCRACY
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:03 am +0000
Posts: 2251
Location: US
fanofVan wrote:
SEla_Kelly wrote:
And I do not mean to sound contentious here, but I want to point out that even though Bradley is a "fan" of Van, who is a righteous and noble figure in tUB, a great ascendant soul, it can be ultimately dangerous to become a 'fanatic', a devotee, of any man. If you were my fan, you would not shout out praises endlessly, but you would be humble and afraid to do anything that would give my name a bad impression in the minds of others. But I do not like fanatics, even when they are zealots in the name of Jesus Yahushua.

What if I made my screen name "FanofNod", but consider this: You would be more incredulous and doubtful, naturally, wouldn't you? The Nodites' instincts were good, but Amadon & Adamson's instincts were excellent and great. Well, but no I hate characters like "Zap Branigan" and those who overtly promise pleasure in order to gain the loyalty and/or approval of other human individuals.

There are persons to whom I am loyal: Larry Watkins, Bob Marley, Jemima Wilkinson. There are souls whom I would hope to be said to have acted in a loyal way towards: Nicodemus, Lhasa de Sela, Chris D'Abbracci, John the Baptist, but that is beyond my capacity to act. I point out that Bradley has accused me of "having an affectation", and "being loyctatcal to the Devil", but since he did not explain what kind of affectation, and again "devil" is not the name of a specific person to whom one could render loyalty, then I have a difficulty in accepting his suggestions.


Actually I did explain your affectation and pointed out many issues you directly contradict the Revelation by your declarations, at least one of which you have now repeated again - the Nodites instincts were NOT good Stephen, again you defy the UB. The devil is Caligastia the Prince and chief Urantia rebel according to the UB. I know you have been told this before....another example of affectation is feigned ignorance.

53:1.4 (602.1) ....The “devil” is none other than Caligastia, the deposed Planetary Prince of Urantia and a Son of the secondary order of Lanonandeks. At the time Michael was on Urantia in the flesh, Lucifer, Satan, and Caligastia were leagued together to effect the miscarriage of his bestowal mission. But they signally failed.

And you cannot be loyal to people you have never known Stephen - a very creepy claim. The UB says something about rebellion adjudication awaiting the end of all sympathy and sympathizers. Those who claim sympathy for the Devil and Satan and Lucifer...and Nod...as you have and do, I wonder.

And still you ignore the issues of your many contradictions to the UB and your defense of rebels, rebellion, and the Manifesto. You persist with your admiration still again here.

Reposted:

Loyalty to what or to whom? Not the text or to its readers and sincere students or TruthBook. Obviously not. No one here, not even everyone here combined, has written so many factual contradictions as you Stephen on this forum. The list is very long indeed and these falsehoods are not minor or subtle but are important in many meaningful ways.

You could have answered kat's questions without such false statements about the text....so why make them?? You do so in ways that profoundly rewrite and change the contents and the meaning of the Papers. and show your continued support of the rebellion and those who chose to join in the heresies of the rebellion.

You claimed that the rebellion did no harm or "inhibit evolutionary progress" on Urantia. Absurd!! You pretend you do not know of the devastation to our world in your defense of rebels and rebellion!! A constant theme of yours but hardly the only factual errors you endlessly claim and declare here!!

5. Immediate Results of Rebellion

67:5.1 (758.6) Great confusion reigned in Dalamatia and thereabout for almost fifty years after the instigation of rebellion. The complete and radical reorganization of the whole world was attempted; revolution displaced evolution as the policy of cultural advancement and racial improvement. Among the superior and partially trained sojourners in and near Dalamatia there appeared a sudden advancement in cultural status, but when these new and radical methods were attempted on the outlying peoples, indescribable confusion and racial pandemonium was the immediate result. Liberty was quickly translated into license by the half-evolved primitive men of those days.

67:5.2 (758.7) Very soon after the rebellion the entire staff of sedition were engaged in energetic defense of the city against the hordes of semisavages who besieged its walls as a result of the doctrines of liberty which had been prematurely taught them. And years before the beautiful headquarters went down beneath the southern waves, the misled and mistaught tribes of the Dalamatia hinterland had already swept down in semisavage assault on the splendid city, driving the secession staff and their associates northward.

67:5.3 (759.1) The Caligastia scheme for the immediate reconstruction of human society in accordance with his ideas of individual freedom and group liberties, proved a swift and more or less complete failure. Society quickly sank back to its old biologic level, and the forward struggle began all over, starting not very far in advance of where it was at the beginning of the Caligastia regime, this upheaval having left the world in confusion worse confounded.

67:5.4 (759.2) One hundred and sixty-two years after the rebellion a tidal wave swept up over Dalamatia, and the planetary headquarters sank beneath the waters of the sea, and this land did not again emerge until almost every vestige of the noble culture of those splendid ages had been obliterated.

Me here: You then compare the mediocrity of today's democracy as far more damaged and dangerous somehow than the very fall of Eden itself!! Again excusing and justifying rebellion and rebels!! Of course it is you and only you here at TruthBook that declares and proclaims that Lucifer was doing God's will BY REBELLION and the Manifesto and then praises our local rebels!

You invent and then extol the virtues of Nod by claiming he and his rebels followers "sacrificed their immortality for the sake of the Nodite civilization" and declare how virtuous and wise were their instincts....these enemies of Van and Amadon and true liberty and Urantia's peaceful evolutionary progress, these upholders of license and false liberty! In reality, they were found guilty of sedition and rebellion and deprived of the Tree of Life and suffered sorely for their disloyalty and betrayal of trust.

WOW!! You should be in marketing and public relations!! Oh yeah, you are...for the Devil himself! The doctor of spin for rebellion and rebels. Here at a study group for readers of the Revelation are you endlessly misrepresenting its contents and supporting the rebels and their cause! So obvious. So consistently. Nothing the least bit subtle about it. But not limited to that, you also preach pre-existence of souls and many other contradictions to the UB Stephen...as has been pointed out over the years.

As to the disastrous effects of the Adamic default, another victim of rebellion which cost untold and immeasurable damage - which you choose to AGAIN coverup and spin in your fashion, our world was still reeling from the consequences of rebellion which cost us dearly and still does today - despite your lies to the contrary:

7. Remote Repercussions of Sin

67:7.1 (760.6) The personal (centripetal) consequences of the creature’s willful and persistent rejection of light are both inevitable and individual and are of concern only to Deity and to that personal creature. Such a soul-destroying harvest of iniquity is the inner reaping of the iniquitous will creature.

67:7.2 (761.1) But not so with the external repercussions of sin: The impersonal (centrifugal) consequences of embraced sin are both inevitable and collective, being of concern to every creature functioning within the affect-range of such events.

67:7.3 (761.2) By fifty thousand years after the collapse of the planetary administration, earthly affairs were so disorganized and retarded that the human race had gained very little over the general evolutionary status existing at the time of Caligastia’s arrival three hundred and fifty thousand years previously. In certain respects progress had been made; in other directions much ground had been lost.

67:7.4 (761.3) Sin is never purely local in its effects. The administrative sectors of the universes are organismal; the plight of one personality must to a certain extent be shared by all. Sin, being an attitude of the person toward reality, is destined to exhibit its inherent negativistic harvest upon any and all related levels of universe values. But the full consequences of erroneous thinking, evil-doing, or sinful planning are experienced only on the level of actual performance. The transgression of universe law may be fatal in the physical realm without seriously involving the mind or impairing the spiritual experience. Sin is fraught with fatal consequences to personality survival only when it is the attitude of the whole being, when it stands for the choosing of the mind and the willing of the soul.

67:7.5 (761.4) Evil and sin visit their consequences in material and social realms and may sometimes even retard spiritual progress on certain levels of universe reality, but never does the sin of any being rob another of the realization of the divine right of personality survival. Eternal survival can be jeopardized only by the decisions of the mind and the choice of the soul of the individual himself.

67:7.6 (761.5) Sin on Urantia did very little to delay biologic evolution, but it did operate to deprive the mortal races of the full benefit of the Adamic inheritance. Sin enormously retards intellectual development, moral growth, social progress, and mass spiritual attainment. But it does not prevent the highest spiritual achievement by any individual who chooses to know God and sincerely do his divine will.

Me here: Many of us have hope that Nod and the rebel staff have already repented and will once again be re-united with their Adjusters to continue their ascension careers. Their natural deaths on this planet of service-assignment does not prevent their eternal adventure I do not think....but there was certainly nothing wise nor noble about the cause of their deaths on Urantia....it was rebellion and betrayal and disloyalty and failure that caused their end here on our world. Make no mistake about it!!

As a fanof Van and Amadon, it is so disappointing and alarming to find one here who celebrates Nod and the rebels but you have been here a long, long time doing the exact same thing over and over....so the true disappointment is with those who support this poster and defend him and protect him and declare him of good heart and sincerity! Horse Feathers! Get a grip! Such voices and their support and their wall of silence about Stephen's declarations of support for the rebels is its own epicenter of error and risk and danger here at TruthBook. A true demonstration of mediocrity and its result IMO!

Much of the problem related to mediocrity today is certainly a result of rebellion and default...despite what anyone may claim otherwise!! R5he immediate danger here to this study group is the poison to the group dynamic and purpose by the embrace and protection of evil/error that is a freely provided pulpit and audience without objection.

67:4.2 (757.5) The sixty members of the planetary staff who went into rebellion chose Nod as their leader. They worked wholeheartedly for the rebel Prince but soon discovered that they were deprived of the sustenance of the system life circuits. They awakened to the fact that they had been degraded to the status of mortal beings. They were indeed superhuman but, at the same time, material and mortal. In an effort to increase their numbers, Daligastia ordered immediate resort to sexual reproduction, knowing full well that the original sixty and their forty-four modified Andonite associates were doomed to suffer extinction by death, sooner or later. After the fall of Dalamatia the disloyal staff migrated to the north and the east. Their descendants were long known as the Nodites, and their dwelling place as “the land of Nod.”

67:4.5 (758.3) When the staff of one hundred came to Urantia, they were temporarily detached from their Thought Adjusters. Immediately upon the arrival of the Melchizedek receivers the loyal personalities (except Van) were returned to Jerusem and were reunited with their waiting Adjusters. We know not the fate of the sixty staff rebels; their Adjusters still tarry on Jerusem. Matters will undoubtedly rest as they now are until the entire Lucifer rebellion is finally adjudicated and the fate of all participants decreed.

But congratulations Stephen for both Jim and Kat have decided to be defenders and champions for the defender and champion of rebels, rebellion, and the Manifesto. Well done. Impressive. But such defenders should reconsider the implications of such support and their silence in response to the direct falsification of the Revelation.

The truth and the UB have enemies. The story of the rebellion certainly demonstrates that reality and the need to choose. You are not the friend of truth by defending those in opposition to the truth. Good luck with that as you declare the purity of this one's heart and intentions here. Don't ignore the evidence of history here.

search.php?author_id=15198&sr=posts

Stephen has his own very unique style and content of topics and posts beginning 7 years ago. Beware to those who believe such a record to be irrelevant as a measure of today's contents and contradictions and beliefs and intentions. Only the blind will be led by the blind. Fair warning.

Stephen asks about his affectation. Not my claim. Kat posted the quote:

(557.1) 48:7.17 15. Affectation is the ridiculous effort of the ignorant to appear wise, the attempt of the barren soul to appear rich.

But I'm glad you asked Stephen!! The definition of affectation is provided below. Your pretense that you know the contents of the UB and present declarations and claims from the UB text when in fact you clearly distort, misrepresent, misstate, and contradict the contents of the UB is a textbook example of "affectation" as shown redundantly here at TruthBook and as exemplified above. You are either very ignorant of the contents of the UB or you deliberately distort and lie about the contents. Take your pick....either way it is "affectation"..."the ridiculous effort of the ignorant to appear wise"!

affectation
[ˌafekˈtāSH(ə)n]

NOUN
behavior, speech, or writing that is artificial and designed to impress.
"the affectation of a man who measures every word for effect" · [more]

synonyms:
pretension · pretentiousness · affectedness · artificiality · insincerity · posturing · posing · pretense · ostentation · grandiosity · snobbery · superciliousness · airs · [more]

a studied display of real or pretended feeling.
"an affectation of calm"

synonyms:
facade · front · show · appearance · false display · pretense · simulation · posture · pose · sham · fake · act · masquerade · charade · mask · cloak · veil ·

Bradly 8)


Must you and Stephen pollute EVERY thread with endless gouging, punching, bickering and squabbling? It's a little predictable, boring, and distracting, and absent 'spiritual flavor', no?

.

_________________
Richard E Warren


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: DANGERS OF DEMOCRACY
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:11 pm +0000
Posts: 932
rick warren wrote:
Must you and Stephen pollute EVERY thread with endless gouging, punching, bickering and squabbling? It's a little predictable, boring, and distracting, and absent 'spiritual flavor', no?


Thank you for that. It's beyond tiresome, it's gone all the way to mind-numbing, at least for me. But mostly I want to thank you for an exceptionally productive and fascinating topic. Please don't let the noise distract you.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: DANGERS OF DEMOCRACY
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:07 am +0000
Posts: 981
rick warren wrote:
Riktare, not being about mediocrity, seems like your worthy questions ought to have a separate thread, no?


Yes, that might be the best idea. Would the moderator want to move (or copy) the post that initiated the sovereignty discussion?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: DANGERS OF DEMOCRACY
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 4428
Rick posts above: "Must you and Stephen pollute EVERY thread with endless gouging, punching, bickering and squabbling? It's a little predictable, boring, and distracting, and absent 'spiritual flavor', no?"

So to be clear....it is not the posting of support for rebels and rebellion or lies about the effects of rebellion or direct contradictions to the UB that is objectional and distracting but the objection to those endless posts. To object is merely bickering and squabbling and unwelcome. Better then to let such misrepresentations stand unopposed.

Hmmmm.....

Too bad. Regrets. But cannot do. I would be appreciative of any and all examples of how better to object less objectionally and with more graciousness. But to say nothing to direct contradictions of the UB proclaimed here by one who pretends scholarship and admiration for that which is then twisted and tormented and disfigured beyond recognition, meaning, or value? Really??

The silence of others here in the face of such falsehoods is a deafening roar to me...and to that I object. In a classroom and study group, false claims, distortion, misrepresentations, and contradiction to that studied is welcomed by silence...but the objection to it is impaled with criticism.

Wow. So be it. Sorry for the disruption. I'll attempt to be less intrusive and distracting.

:-&

.


Last edited by fanofVan on Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:00 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: DANGERS OF DEMOCRACY
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:52 am +0000
Posts: 1036
It's kinda like the difference between an elementary school story time reading circle and a university literature course. In elementary school, everyone sits on a round rug in the classroom and enjoys a fun story or shares their own creative stories. Everyone is praised profusely, regardless of the quality of their content or contributions. If a young student says something blatantly incorrect, everyone scrambles to 'fix' it so the student won't look bad or feel bad.

In a university literature course, students are:

1) expected to have done the entire reading
2) expected to stick to the literature that is the topic of the course
3) challenged on their answers if their answers are dubious with regard to the actual content of the literature
4) classroom debate on the meaning and symbolism of the literature is where much of the learning occurs
5) students can disagree and debate vociferously in class and then go out for a beer together afterward. No one takes it personally.

Which of these types of study groups/ classrooms do we want to be?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: DANGERS OF DEMOCRACY
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 4428
PRECISELY!!!!!

Talk about mediocrity and sinking to the lowest common denominator and conformity to a low standard of relevancy and accuracy in our study group outcomes!

Let's avoid all conflict and promote all opinions as equal even if and when they directly contradict that which is supposedly being seriously studied. Kumbayah Island where the inferior and average are celebrated and protected from peer review.

How topical!! Interesting. I wonder if mediocrity results from conflict avoidance? Or reality avoidance? Is reality free of conflict?

Nope...indeed not! Within conflict, truth is discovered and progress is made. The avoidance of conflict is merely protection for the status quo....a non-progressive stance....resulting in mediocrity.

Shall we settle here for mediocrity then??!! Shall we allow falsehoods and lies to hold sway here by our silent hope for a false peace?? Isn't that which defies reality actually unreality? Shall we protect and promote unreality?? Is that what is hoped for here? Do the Guidelines suggest such deportment and result??

It is my opinion that those who remain silent in the face of falsehood when they know it to be false are the sponsors and protectors and perpetuators and perpetrators of the falsehood!! There are terrorists and then there are their sponsors and those who shelter them! And those who criticize the objections to falsehood in the name of peace are now themselves the enemies of truth and knowledge for they would prefer ignorance and falsehoods without objection than deal with disagreement, conflict, and the discomfort of actually studying and choosing opinions and beliefs and perspective based on reality. Comfort is more important than learning. Then why join a study group and classroom????????

As Agon points out (thank you), the freedom to express is equal among students. This does not mean all expressions are equal in meaning or value or accuracy or relevancy. Should we have opinions and make claims in a classroom that we cannot explain and defend and contextualize and make relevant to the object of study? Who learns anything at all when lies, distortions, misrepresentations, falsehoods, and contradictions of the object of study are proclaimed and declared by a so called student? Isn't this instead confusing and leads to misunderstanding by the falsification of the text studied?

Never had a class from Junior High through University where such nonsense was tolerated by other students (except those too new and ignorant and shy to object or argue) or by teachers/moderators. Misrepresentation of the text book is not allowed in any classroom that is actually a classroom or study group of a particular subject or text. Period.

And those students and teachers and moderators who do allow it, or worse protect and defend it, do not understand much about learning, study, or the purpose of such gatherings of students....or so I think.


Last edited by fanofVan on Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:12 am +0000, edited 4 times in total.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: DANGERS OF DEMOCRACY
PostPosted:  
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:13 am +0000
Posts: 1095
Location: Denver CO
See separate thread created: Planetary Sovereignty


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 196 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 ... 14  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Registered users: Google [Bot]


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You can post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group