Urantia Book Forum

Urantia Book Discussion Board : Study Group
It is currently Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:06 pm +0000

All times are UTC - 7 hours




Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 183 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 ... 13  Next
Author Message
PostPosted:  
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:13 am +0000
Posts: 1039
Location: Denver CO
Here are a couple other passages that discuss this issue. Even after fusion, we have a ways to go:

Quote:
107:5.5 When a Thought Adjuster is fused with the evolving immortal morontia soul of the surviving human, the mind of the Adjuster can only be identified as persisting apart from the creature's mind until the ascending mortal attains spirit levels of universe progression.

107:5.6 Upon the attainment of the finaliter levels of ascendant experience, these spirits of the sixth stage appear to transmute some mind factor representing a union of certain phases of the mortal and Adjuster minds which had previously functioned as liaison between the divine and human phases of such ascending personalities. This experiential mind quality probably “supremacizes” and subsequently augments the experiential endowment of evolutionary Deity—the Supreme Being.


Again, we may go through a phase that is a mixture of the divine and the mortal, but we do not become Divine like God. But, we do become part of the experience of the Supreme Being.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted:  
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:13 am +0000
Posts: 1039
Location: Denver CO
Final post on this from me. But, I feel this is an important distinction to make, so that there is no mis-information about it.

Quote:
110:7.4 Subsequent to mortal fusion the Adjusters share your destiny and experience; they are you. After the fusion of the immortal morontia soul and the associated Adjuster, all of the experience and all of the values of the one eventually become the possession of the other, so that the two are actually one entity. In a certain sense, this new being is of the eternal past as well as for the eternal future. All that was once human in the surviving soul and all that is experientially divine in the Adjuster now become the actual possession of the new and ever-ascending universe personality. But on each universe level the Adjuster can endow the new creature only with those attributes which are meaningful and of value on that level. An absolute oneness with the divine Monitor, a complete exhaustion of the endowment of an Adjuster, can only be achieved in eternity subsequent to the final attainment of the Universal Father, the Father of spirits, ever the source of these divine gifts.

110:7.5 When the evolving soul and the divine Adjuster are finally and eternally fused, each gains all of the experiencible qualities of the other. This co-ordinate personality possesses all of the experiential memory of survival once held by the ancestral mortal mind and then resident in the morontia soul, and in addition thereto this potential finaliter embraces all the experiential memory of the Adjuster throughout the mortal indwellings of all time. But it will require an eternity of the future for an Adjuster ever completely to endow the personality partnership with the meanings and values which the divine Monitor carries forward from the eternity of the past.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 3952
brooklyn_born wrote:
I am opening up this thread to piggyback off topic (click here): Do we lose free will as we become more spiritual? I think it is appropriate to have a specific thread for the purpose of exploring the notion of human will. Feel free to share your thoughts on this topic from the perspective of the revelations.

Will, Free Will, Will Power and CHOICE.


WILL is desire. FREE WILL is the freedom to desire. WILL POWER is potency of freedom to desire. CHOICE is expressing will or free will.

WILL is subject to conditions. FREE WILL is unconditional, relatively speaking. WILL POWER may or may not override condition placed on will, depending on its potency; the stronger the will power the more freely expressed, free will.

We choose how we express our free will. Will power determines whether or not the choice materializes.

When you choose to express the will of divinity, the desire is divine. It ---will of divinity--- is not yours. Divinity is Father's gifted to us through the agency of the Father fragment. Once the decision is made, and unless and until the mortal chooses to reengage its free will, that is, ability to desire something other than divine, will is no longer logically "free." You could say, it is "consecrated." Free will has been transformed into the Divine will.

Jesus tells us this in the following pronouncement:

Quote:
136:2.4 (1511.3)... Jesus, looking up to the near-by Adjuster, prayed... "Your will be done on earth


Jesus chose not to express his free will (possibly deciding not to undergo the bestowal career). Instead, he made the choice to put his free will aside by submitting it to God's will.


This last declaration is a complete falsehood and contradiction of the UB. It would be so much better if some people around here would lead with either questions or text rather than proclamations!! Especially those with a larger agenda of attempting to validate personal beliefs which are contrary to the teachings we share here.

At no time, not even one time, did Jesus choose "not to express his free will" nor did he make any choice ever "to put his free will aside" and at no time is either of those required of anyone ever who is submitting their own will to God's will.

Jesus freely chose for his will and the expression of his will to represent the will of the Supreme by subordinating himself to the will of all 7 Master Spirits including on this final bestowal, the will of the Father. He made a mortal lifetime of endless freewill choices to express his understanding of God's will and his relationship to God and to open his choices for God's expression of his will through this conduit of God's nature and love.

The original post of this topic demonstrates a very limited perspective and restricted opinion on the spectrum of what should be considered God's "will" for the purpose of validation of BB's opinion that we lose free will and choice by submitting to or alignment with God's will.

119:8.7 (1318.6) In passing through the experience of revealing the Seven Master Spirit wills of the Trinity, the Creator Son has passed through the experience of revealing the will of the Supreme. In functioning as a revelator of the will of Supremacy, Michael, together with all other Master Sons, has identified himself eternally with the Supreme. In this universe age he reveals the Supreme and participates in the actualization of the sovereignty of Supremacy. But in the next universe age we believe he will be collaborating with the Supreme Being in the first experiential Trinity for and in the universes of outer space.

120:0.8 (1325.1) There were immediate advantages and tremendous compensations resultant from the willingness of this mighty Creator Son once more voluntarily to subordinate himself to the will of the Paradise Deities, this time to that of the Universal Father. By this decision to effect such associative subordination, Michael would experience in this incarnation, not only the nature of mortal man, but also the will of the Paradise Father of all. And further, he could enter upon this unique bestowal with the complete assurance, not only that Immanuel would exercise the full authority of the Paradise Father in the administration of his universe during his absence on the Urantia bestowal, but also with the comforting knowledge that the Ancients of Days of the superuniverse had decreed the safety of his realm throughout the entire bestowal period.

120:2.5 (1328.2) “5. As concerns the planet of your bestowal and the immediate generation of men living thereon at the time of your mortal sojourn, I counsel you to function largely in the role of a teacher. Give attention, first, to the liberation and inspiration of man’s spiritual nature. Next, illuminate the darkened human intellect, heal the souls of men, and emancipate their minds from age-old fears. And then, in accordance with your mortal wisdom, minister to the physical well-being and material comfort of your brothers in the flesh. Live the ideal religious life for the inspiration and edification of all your universe.

120:2.8 (1328.5) “8. Your great mission to be realized and experienced in the mortal incarnation is embraced in your decision to live a life wholeheartedly motivated to do the will of your Paradise Father, thus to reveal God, your Father, in the flesh and especially to the creatures of the flesh. At the same time you will also interpret, with a new enhancement, our Father, to the supermortal beings of all Nebadon. Equally with this ministry of new revelation and augmented interpretation of the Paradise Father to the human and the superhuman type of mind, you will also so function as to make a new revelation of man to God. Exhibit in your one short life in the flesh, as it has never before been seen in all Nebadon, the transcendent possibilities attainable by a God-knowing human during the short career of mortal existence, and make a new and illuminating interpretation of man and the vicissitudes of his planetary life to all the superhuman intelligences of all Nebadon, and for all time. You are to go down to Urantia in the likeness of mortal flesh, and living as a man in your day and generation, you will so function as to show your entire universe the ideal of perfected technique in the supreme engagement of the affairs of your vast creation: The achievement of God seeking man and finding him and the phenomenon of man seeking God and finding him; and doing all of this to mutual satisfaction and doing it during one short lifetime in the flesh.

120:4.1 (1331.1) And so certain unworthy children of Michael, who had accused their Creator-father of selfishly seeking rulership and indulged the insinuation that the Creator Son was arbitrarily and autocratically upheld in power by virtue of the unreasoning loyalty of a deluded universe of subservient creatures, were to be silenced forever and left confounded and disillusioned by the life of self-forgetful service which the Son of God now entered upon as the Son of Man—all the while subject to “the will of the Paradise Father.”

120:4.6 (1331.6) In and through all this extraordinary experience, God the Father chose to manifest himself as he always does — in the usual way—in the normal, natural, and dependable way of divine acting.

The act is ours to choose, the consequences are God's to determine!!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:16 pm +0000
Posts: 1120
Location: Nanticoke NY
What is in the power of human individuals' choices, as individuals, that implies that humans have will? This is preceded by the fact of will, therefore choices should reflect the goal to maximize creature destiny for all the universe. No where more is this seen as in the role of a father to help other souls discover for themselves an independent journey towards self-direction. Self-direction is the goal of man as a spirit: the self-directed spirit ascender who is assumed to know and do God's will.

The choices humans make may be seen in the sense of "ought": "Is he choosing according to the maxim of what a person should do?" And "ought" corrseponds with the seventh adjutant, not what "is" as in knowledge, but rather what the human mind intends as "should be". Jesus gave special instruction to the followers of John the Baptist to Abner, who helped carry these instructions to the souls within the Jewish Kingdom, helping those souls to "win", to "outcompete" the traditional rulers, even in terms of the preservation of traditions for that Church.

If you do not have this sense of "ought", when you are making your choices, then there is a good chance that what you know about "the will", you try to convince yourself that the choices you've made amount to "will acts". But you will hardly be shaping the overall potentials of the universe the same way as God the Universal Father. There was a long history of evolution and many different acts that did not constitute choice, until the appearance of Andon and Fonta on our world, and the actions which are derived from "response pattern" of individual circumstance. [tUB 36:5.16] "The adjutants afford the Universe Mother Spirit ... do not repercuss in the Supreme Being when acting on prepersonality levels." Learning and even thinking properly do not have enough of the "ought", the human sense of duty, inside the mind of a mortal creature, to suggest to me that such actions are "actively or metaphysically shaping the structure of the grand universe, or the relationships between creatures and existential personalities.

Humans of Urantia who have the potential to discover Paradise should learn to think about their choices in terms about the probable future in the Age of the Supreme Being, to rear children who are and will be seen as the Supreme Being, to share the perspective of the child of the human individual, as Representative of the Expereincial Deity, even while a father is called to live or to portray such Life as "the existential Father", within the relationship he has to child. This means sharing qualities in common with the First Source and Center: the maximum allowable bestowal as another mind has the capacity to witness: all efforts unfolding into the eventual buildup of a robust psyche in that individual. [tUB 117:5.11] "Even the experience of man and Adjuster must find echo in the divinity of God the Supreme, for, as the Adjusters experience, they are like the Supreme, and the evolving soul of mortal man is created out of the pre-existent possibility for such experience within the Supreme."

The choices that an individual makes, "reveals" his personality attributes to others in the unverse. As mortal will creatures, with personality, the attainment of our true personalities is wrought on discovering the "prepersonality" reservation of the First Source and Center, and in this sense all personalities reveal the will of the universal father, as a preminded reality of the universe. In this sense, the work of every sentient individual in the grand universe, shows aspects of God's true personality: in the personality of Michael the Creator we find the maximum experiencible relationship that mortal creatures of Nebadon have with "one who is like the Father". If Michael sharing this quality of Deity, bestowing the maximum attribute of his own personality on all the sentient creatures of his realm, then the choices you make: why not open to your own total becoming, become as much like Michael in terms of unified personality: a Creator Personality, an exalted Lord (Master), and a Universe Father.

The choices you make are not superficial, in this sense what you do must be completed well in order to gain the blessings of your accomplishment, and the real accomplishments are measured in terms of sincerity, experiencial growth, and the attainment of father attributes, the incorporation of one's prepersonality in one's actual modus operandus. In this sense: you should assume that you already have that prepersonality, that you already have the path that leads to your own individuated maximum creature destiny. The path of discovering eternal Paradise is real, and your choices should reflect your own approach to maturation. Jesus as the Supreme Being maximized the finite possibilities of his own existences, and now we can say "that his will has been done on Urantia". But such will means nothing unless society understands certain mandates that follow from his bestowal: to help other human individuals to discover the life that each of they has with the Father in Paradise, and really that would only the beginning of eternity.

I have explained that JEsus structured his choicesin conformity with the doings of the will of the father, and how each of the mandates that he adhered to, both before and after his life, apply logically to the few choices that he actually made (tUB134). Still, there is not given enough of the proper consideration for "what might be considered a human choice in the transcript record of one's Adjuster." How are human beings actually following the will of God? Everything that human beings may call choices are finite, however I would hold/consider actual choices, choices that reflect supernal reality of mind for that person, in the remembrance of the Thought Adjuster, if I can figure out how this is deemed.

_________________
to the Underlaying Unity of All Life so that the Voice of Intuition may guide Us closer to Our Common Keeper


Last edited by SEla_Kelly on Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:52 pm +0000, edited 3 times in total.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:16 pm +0000
Posts: 1120
Location: Nanticoke NY
In other words, how do you know that any human choice, is truly the reflection of that individual's personality, but also a reflection of his existential personality? In addition to the measures of human consistency and sincerity that may also apply as what others in this thread have demanded, the actual choices that a person adhered to, beyond the initial declaration or realisation to make that choice.

And the difference between what is constituted as a choice for one human individual, versus what is considered as "administrative policy choice", the choices that inevitably one knows others will also face? Are we talking about choices that God recognises and does His Best to help that one create, or what? Does that choice that you make as one human individual, hold the same value universally as for all others in similar circumstances? If you think you have found a better way, "that will advance the life that God has in the Supreme Being", surely what choices you make reflect the avenue that all others may approach the same problems.

_________________
to the Underlaying Unity of All Life so that the Voice of Intuition may guide Us closer to Our Common Keeper


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted:  
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:13 am +0000
Posts: 1039
Location: Denver CO
SEla_Kelly, I have a few requests:

Would you please try to make your posts shorter and to the point of the topic? Or to some point? i.e., what is the point of this post? Maybe it's just me, but from the very first paragraph my eyes glaze over. It's a tough read...can you condense it to one or two paragraphs?

Would you please use Urantia Book quotes to support your posts? We are discussing The Urantia Book here, and we need to have supporting quotes for the points we want to make.

If you can't do that, then I would suggest that this kind of post might fit better into the "Essays" section of this forum.

Thanks...


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:16 pm +0000
Posts: 1120
Location: Nanticoke NY
40:9.4 There is, however, one particular in which Spirit-fused mortals differ from their ascendant brethren: Mortal memory of human experience on the material worlds of origin survives death in the flesh because the indwelling Adjuster has acquired a spirit counterpart, or transcript, of those events of human life which were of spiritual significance. But with Spirit-fused mortals there exists no such mechanism whereby human memory may persist. The Adjuster transcripts of memory are full and intact, but these acquisitions are experiential possessions of the departed Adjusters and are not available to the creatures of their former indwelling, who therefore awaken in the resurrection halls of the morontia spheres of Nebadon as if they were newly created beings, creatures without consciousness of former existence.

47:3.3 The mortal-mind transcripts and the active creature-memory patterns as transformed from the material levels to the spiritual are the individual possession of the detached Thought Adjusters; these spiritized factors of mind, memory, and creature personality are forever a part of such Adjusters. The creature mind-matrix and the passive potentials of identity are present in the morontia soul intrusted to the keeping of the seraphic destiny guardians. And it is the reuniting of the morontia-soul trust of the seraphim and the spirit-mind trust of the Adjuster that reassembles creature personality and constitutes resurrection of a sleeping survivor.

110:2.3 The Adjuster is not trying to control your thinking, as such, but rather to spiritualize it, to eternalize it. Neither angels nor Adjusters are devoted directly to influencing human thought; that is your exclusive personality prerogative. The Adjusters are dedicated to improving, modifying, adjusting, and co-ordinating your thinking processes; but more especially and specifically they are devoted to the work of building up spiritual counterparts of your careers, morontia transcripts of your true advancing selves, for survival purposes.


What might be held, in such transcripts as reveals the actual choices that man has made

_________________
to the Underlaying Unity of All Life so that the Voice of Intuition may guide Us closer to Our Common Keeper


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 3952
Now...if only you could merge the two, perhaps some understanding might occur.

What is existential personality? Not mine I do not think and only mine makes my decisions and freewill choices.

What choices does God create? I wonder if our prior decisions might create our future choices? Do we not reap what we sow? Are not circumstances and situations and intersection of choice all the harvest of prior sowing?

How do my choices affect any other's choices?

We must all make sufficient number of choices and sufficient quality of choices to experientially acquire sufficient wisdom and spirit progress for survival, fusion, and finality.

There are no shortcuts and no one's journey is shortened by any other's journey or choices. I may not choose for you or my children nor you for any other. Each tadpole must make all their own efforts and achieve all their own rewards.

You have claimed there is no free will except in Paradise and finality and any choice that is not God's will is not truly a freewill choice...in contradictions to the UB. Do you still hold to this claim?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:11 pm +0000
Posts: 932
SEla_Kelly wrote:
What is in the power of human individuals' choices, as individuals, that implies that humans have will? This is preceded by the fact of will, therefore choices should reflect the goal to maximize creature destiny for all the universe. No where more is this seen as in the role of a father to help other souls discover for themselves an independent journey towards self-direction. Self-direction is the goal of man as a spirit: the self-directed spirit ascender who is assumed to know and do God's will.


I agree that personality is self-determinative, which is the role of will. Self-direction is achieved with the aid of mind and spirit ministry. This is why primitive personalities are given leeway to make mistakes and why they are given so many mercy credits to cover them. Personalities are changeless as is their ability to be self-directive, but the experience of the personality is ever changing and evolving. The goal of that evolution is spirit. References: (71.1) 5:6.6 and (402.5) 36:5.8 and (1302.2) 118:8.5 and (314.4) 28:6.5

SEla_Kelly wrote:
The choices humans make may be seen in the sense of "ought": "Is he choosing according to the maxim of what a person should do?" And "ought" corrseponds with the seventh adjutant, not what "is" as in knowledge, but rather what the human mind intends as "should be".


What you're talking about here is conscience. Conscience is an adjutant function and the spirit of wisdom does provide the wisdom to discern the difference between right and wrong. This is the moral seed bed from which the soul is grown. And it is in the soul that the Spirit reveals what is really and truly right – the ideal. References: (402.5) 36:5.8 and (1207.7) 110:5.1 and (1094.7) 100:1.5 and (1738.1) 156:5.2

SEla_Kelly wrote:
If you do not have this sense of "ought", when you are making your choices, then there is a good chance that what you know about "the will", you try to convince yourself that the choices you've made amount to "will acts". But you will hardly be shaping the overall potentials of the universe the same way as God the Universal Father. There was a long history of evolution and many different acts that did not constitute choice, until the appearance of Andon and Fonta on our world, and the actions which are derived from "response pattern" of individual circumstance. [tUB 36:5.16] "The adjutants afford the Universe Mother Spirit ... do not repercuss in the Supreme Being when acting on prepersonality levels." Learning and even thinking properly do not have enough of the "ought", the human sense of duty, inside the mind of a mortal creature, to suggest to me that such actions are "actively or metaphysically shaping the structure of the grand universe, or the relationships between creatures and existential personalities.


That's exactly right. Animals do not have a moral conscience. Some animals can be taught right and wrong behavior, which is how they become domesticated, but their behavior is the result of a primitive form of loyalty to their master, not because they have a moral conscience. The moral conscience results from the ministry of the two higher adjutants, which have potential to repercuss in the Supreme because they minister to personality and are within the spiritual grasp of the Holy Spirit. The moral conscience is that sense of "ought" – I "ought" to do this or that because it is right. And the sense of duty is that second cosmic mind reality reflex that draws the human mind toward a stable philosophy of living balanced between the outer physical world and the inner spiritual world of the personality. The personality must learn how to coordinate and integrate it's inner spiritual drives with its experience in the outer material world in order to make choices resulting in soul growth and contribute to the emergence of the Supreme. References: (1431.3) 130:2.8 and (193.3) 16:7.4 and (192.3) 16:6.7 and (193.7) 16:7.8 and (193.9) 16:7.10 and (1282:1) 117:3.6 and (1282.1) 117:3.6


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:16 pm +0000
Posts: 1120
Location: Nanticoke NY
fanofVan wrote:
What is existential personality? Not mine I do not think and only mine makes my decisions and freewill choices.


You have claimed there is no free will except in Paradise and finality and any choice that is not God's will is not truly a freewill choice...in contradictions to the UB. Do you still hold to this claim?


Existential personality is the potential for being & action, for each sentient individual but not in their current modalities of existences rather as expressed on the Central Universe, God's Realm. The Actuality Personality of the emerging soul within the mind of man, differing from this final postultimate finite-absonite existential personality. You know that to become like the first source and center is the highest calling of man, but what about the creature destiny of any fused person? They are the expressions, as Spirit-fused eternity beings, of another existential Source. So existentiality as reflected in the potential of that one to fulfill the most ultimate of potentials within them, the source of mind for each individual.

_________________
to the Underlaying Unity of All Life so that the Voice of Intuition may guide Us closer to Our Common Keeper


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:11 pm +0000
Posts: 932
SEla_Kelly wrote:
Existential personality is the potential for being & action, for each sentient individual but not in their current modalities of existences rather as expressed on the Central Universe, God's Realm. The Actuality Personality of the emerging soul within the mind of man, differing from this final postultimate finite-absonite existential personality. You know that to become like the first source and center is the highest calling of man, but what about the creature destiny of any fused person? They are the expressions, as Spirit-fused eternity beings, of another existential Source. So existentiality as reflected in the potential of that one to fulfill the most ultimate of potentials within them, the source of mind for each individual.


I think the existential Thought Adjuster is a pre-personality. And I agree that our potential for personality realization resides with the Thought Adjuster who descends from the First Source and Center in order to enable us to fulfill our personality potentials, which we accomplish by attuning our personality's will to his pre-personality pre-will. It's a beautiful relationship between the existential level of reality and experiential level of reality, which eventually leads to the emergence of the Supreme.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 3952
SEla_Kelly wrote:
fanofVan wrote:
What is existential personality? Not mine I do not think and only mine makes my decisions and freewill choices.


You have claimed there is no free will except in Paradise and finality and any choice that is not God's will is not truly a freewill choice...in contradictions to the UB. Do you still hold to this claim?


Existential personality is the potential for being & action, for each sentient individual but not in their current modalities of existences rather as expressed on the Central Universe, God's Realm. The Actuality Personality of the emerging soul within the mind of man, differing from this final postultimate finite-absonite existential personality. You know that to become like the first source and center is the highest calling of man, but what about the creature destiny of any fused person? They are the expressions, as Spirit-fused eternity beings, of another existential Source. So existentiality as reflected in the potential of that one to fulfill the most ultimate of potentials within them, the source of mind for each individual.


Pre-existence is a common theme and claim of yours...but no celestial or mortal will ever be existential. We do not have pre-existence or existential/pre-existence potential as you repeatedly claim. No future "modality" of existence is existential either.

There is no such thing as potential existentialism...a contradiction in terms.

What...exactly....does this mean? Please provide supporting text:

"The Actuality Personality of the emerging soul within the mind of man, differing from this final postultimate finite-absonite existential personality."

Stephen - there are only 3 existential personalities as I understand it...and I don't believe there will be more than the 3 original...I am a little confused about the Supreme and the Ultimate though! All others are experiential (including the Supreme and Ultimate) and can never become existential...but all do contribute to the original Trinity by non-existential experience.

Dude...you really need to read this book prior to these endless and false declarations on unreality!! Understanding takes far more effort and thought than simply creating meaningless word jumbles. Most unfortunate and totally misleading as you presume understanding in your posts that you obviously do not have. Shameless arrogance lacking all sincerity of intent to learn and understand IMO. We are students here Stephen. Your posts are total disruptions of contradiction and falsehood for the most part. Why you are so patiently humored here is a mystery.

0:7.2 (10.7) Deity is, therefore, dual in presence:

0:7.3 (10.8) 1. Existential—beings of eternal existence, past, present, and future.

0:7.4 (10.9) 2. Experiential—beings actualizing in the post-Havona present but of unending existence throughout all future eternity.

0:7.5 (10.10) The Father, Son, and Spirit are existential—existential in actuality (though all potentials are supposedly experiential). The Supreme and the Ultimate are wholly experiential. The Deity Absolute is experiential in actualization but existential in potentiality. The essence of Deity is eternal, but only the three original persons of Deity are unqualifiedly eternal. All other Deity personalities have an origin, but they are eternal in destiny.

0:9.5 (13.3) God the Supreme and God the Ultimate, now evolving in the experiential universes, are not existential—not past eternals, only future eternals, time-space-conditioned and transcendental-conditioned eternals. They are Deities of supreme, ultimate, and possibly supreme-ultimate endowments, but they have experienced historic universe origins. They will never have an end, but they do have personality beginnings. They are indeed actualizations of eternal and infinite Deity potentials, but they themselves are neither unqualifiedly eternal nor infinite.

My soul's personality is my personality and it will never be "differing" Stephen. Have any text support for this declaration which appears to be another direct contradiction of the Revelation. Personality is changeless and is unique to each being delivering our individuality!

0:5.11 (9.1) Personality. The personality of mortal man is neither body, mind, nor spirit; neither is it the soul. Personality is the one changeless reality in an otherwise ever-changing creature experience; and it unifies all other associated factors of individuality. The personality is the unique bestowal which the Universal Father makes upon the living and associated energies of matter, mind, and spirit, and which survives with the survival of the morontial soul.

Kat...it appears you are swallowing Stephen's camels again without objection which feels like an endorsement of obvious falsehood....and lends itself to the confusion of newer students when falsehood is not directly objected to as false. Weird.


Last edited by fanofVan on Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:41 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:11 pm +0000
Posts: 932
SEla_Kelly wrote:
The choices that an individual makes, "reveals" his personality attributes to others in the unverse. As mortal will creatures, with personality, the attainment of our true personalities is wrought on discovering the "prepersonality" reservation of the First Source and Center, and in this sense all personalities reveal the will of the universal father, as a preminded reality of the universe. In this sense, the work of every sentient individual in the grand universe, shows aspects of God's true personality: in the personality of Michael the Creator we find the maximum experiencible relationship that mortal creatures of Nebadon have with "one who is like the Father". If Michael sharing this quality of Deity, bestowing the maximum attribute of his own personality on all the sentient creatures of his realm, then the choices you make: why not open to your own total becoming, become as much like Michael in terms of unified personality: a Creator Personality, an exalted Lord (Master), and a Universe Father.


I really like this. All the work done by every personality striving for divinity attainment is revealing the personality of the Father in the experiential worlds of time and space as God the Supreme. It takes every single one of us to accomplish this. Those who do not contribute result in a loss that contributes to the Supreme's struggle for expression. So much depends upon our free-will decisions.

(1283.4) 117:4.2 Throughout the grand universe the Supreme struggles for expression. His divine evolution is in measure predicated on the wisdom-action of every personality in existence. When a human being chooses eternal survival, he is cocreating destiny; and in the life of this ascending mortal the finite God finds an increased measure of personality self-realization realization and an enlargement of experiential sovereignty. But if a creature rejects the eternal career, that part of the Supreme which was dependent on this creature’s choice experiences inescapable delay, a deprivation which must be compensated by substitutional or collateral experience; as for the personality of the nonsurvivor, it is absorbed into the oversoul of creation, becoming a part of the Deity of the Supreme.

(1285.2) 117:4.13 And so the decision awaits each of you as it once awaited each of us: Will you fail the God of time, who is so dependent upon the decisions of the finite mind? will you fail the Supreme personality of the universes by the slothfulness of animalistic retrogression? will you fail the great brother of all creatures, who is so dependent on each creature? can you allow yourself to pass into the realm of the unrealized when before you lies the enchanting vista of the universe career — the divine discovery of the Paradise Father and the divine participation in the search for, and the evolution of, the God of Supremacy?

(1233.1) 112:5.5 And it is this very power of choice, the universe insignia of freewill creaturehood, that constitutes man’s greatest opportunity and his supreme cosmic responsibility. Upon the integrity of the human volition depends the eternal destiny of the future finaliter; upon the sincerity of the mortal free will the divine Adjuster depends for eternal personality; upon the faithfulness of mortal choice the Universal Father depends for the realization of a new ascending son; upon the steadfastness and wisdom of decision-actions the Supreme Being depends for the actuality of experiential evolution.

Our Master Michael is a revelation of the Supreme and his spirit lives in each one of us, guiding us in our decision-making by revealing truth, beauty and goodness, the love of the Father. The will of the Supreme is a unification of the diversified wills of Paradise Deities revealed by the Supreme Creators, or Master Michaels and they reveal it to their creatures.

(1279.6) 117.1.8  Michael, a creator, revealed the divine love of the Creator Father for his terrestrial children. And having discovered and received this divine affection, men can aspire to reveal this love to their brethren in the flesh. Such creature affection is a true reflection of the love of the Supreme.

(1318.2) 119:8.3 In completing his creature bestowals, Michael was not only establishing his own sovereignty but also was augmenting the evolving sovereignty of God the Supreme. In the course of these bestowals the Creator Son not only engaged in a descending exploration of the various natures of creature personality, but he also achieved the revelation of the variously diversified wills of the Paradise Deities, whose synthetic unity, as revealed by the Supreme Creators, is revelatory of the will of the Supreme Being.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 3952
A prior post of mine from another topic...seems relevant here as well....

Apologies to the wiser, kinder, and more gentle and patient folk here who find my expression of indignation and outrage at some posts (and posters) who choose to post personal beliefs and theories that completely contradict the Revelation while hijacking terms and concepts which originate in that text to completely change and misrepresent the contents of that text and distort the facts and truths of reality provided us and which we study here.

There are those students here who commit the grave and grievous error of pulling a sentence or phrase from such posts to then post some minor agreement with, in pursuit of the peaceful goal of conflict avoidance...but then say little or nothing about the contradictions, distortion, falsehoods both stated and inferred. What a gross mistake in a classroom setting of students, so many new to the book!! This is not where the general public gather to share theories and beliefs seeking general agreement. This is a study group of a specific book and set of teachings.

Such lack of objection is a function of laziness and indifference to truth and mistaken motive to timidly avoid conflict with evil IMO...no matter the price paid. It is inexcusable. Feathers may be ruffled, toes stepped on, and shin bones kicked by objecting to abuse of the text and contradictions to it, but this is not Polly Anna's School of Kumbayah Decorum people. Wisely facing and overcoming evil is our task, not passively ignoring it. We learn by engagement and not by its refusal.

There have been some real and very dangerous wolves here over the years...those with agendas of disruption and deceit and misdirection hoping to end study and scholarly pursuits here and those seeking a platform and audience for the broadcasting of their own theories and beliefs. Some even read the UB. There are those here who believe and teach that the Papers are a gift from celestials but are a deceptive conspiracy to hide their own sins and the UB is a coverup for the arch criminal Gabriel and false indictment of the innocent Lucifer. Oh, there are worse.

Those who silently refuse to object and engage are perpetuating such nonsense but those of you who engage such evil by selective agreement are truly guilty of collusion and endorsement by the assumed lack of disagreement you demonstrate by trying to be so agreeable.

This is very dangerous behavior. A choice made with true consequences. Decisions must be made by each student here as to whether decorum and agreeability are more important than the study of reality per the guidelines and advertised purpose. Those who get cozy with lies and falsehoods in the name of peace may believe such dovishness to be desirable but without great wisdom it is only defeat while glibly smiling and feeling warm and fuzzy about oneself.

Those who will not point out contradictions to that which we study here are no friends of study or that which is supposedly studied. Those who welcome fools and wolves into their midst certainly deserve the results. What is sown will certainly be reaped...including those tares sown by the enemies of truth. Thanks.

Bradly.

I should add my usual notice: No sincere students here need to agree with me or accept or believe the contents of the Papers or accept the claims of the authors. I do not and will not attempt to convince anyone what to believe...or what they should or should not do. A sincere student seeks to learn, acquire knowledge and understanding. It really is not difficult to know who is which after a few posts. There were requirements for all who wished to study with or even follow the Master. To impose zero standards of study is to make a mockery of sincerity and study...both.

The UB has much to say about the value and benefits and functional inevitability of conflict. Those who believe evolutionary progress and experiential wisdom and reality understanding can be achieved without conflict naively deny reality...and the teachings. This site is a study group. Falsehood should not go unchecked or unchallenged. Such is a travesty of injustice to newer students. It is true their are better and worse methods and styles for such objection. But conflict avoidance is misguided and cowardly IMO...and very counter productive in this setting. I think conflict avoidance is many times merely slothful, the easy way out, requiring no thought and no courage.

The UB teaches that audience and context are critical to understanding the contents of the Revelation. I would suggest that the audience of a readership and student body engaged in study of the contents of a specific text for the purpose of learning and understanding those contents as context for that audience here requires a certain format and functionality to be relevant and productive to achieve these Guideline Goals and Objectives. This is a classroom! Not a social club or the general public.

Ever wonder about the conflict during rebellion while Michael and Gabriel remained silent? Silence solved nothing and conflict could not be avoided.

A link to the keyword search results for "conflict": https://www.urantia.org/urantia-book/se ... &op=Search

A few of my favorites:

100:4.1 (1097.5) Religious living is devoted living, and devoted living is creative living, original and spontaneous. New religious insights arise out of conflicts which initiate the choosing of new and better reaction habits in the place of older and inferior reaction patterns. New meanings only emerge amid conflict; and conflict persists only in the face of refusal to espouse the higher values connoted in superior meanings.

100:4.2 (1097.6) Religious perplexities are inevitable; there can be no growth without psychic conflict and spiritual agitation. The organization of a philosophic standard of living entails considerable commotion in the philosophic realms of the mind. Loyalties are not exercised in behalf of the great, the good, the true, and the noble without a struggle. Effort is attendant upon clarification of spiritual vision and enhancement of cosmic insight. And the human intellect protests against being weaned from subsisting upon the nonspiritual energies of temporal existence. The slothful animal mind rebels at the effort required to wrestle with cosmic problem solving.

:wink:


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 3952
katroofjebus wrote:
SEla_Kelly wrote:
The choices that an individual makes, "reveals" his personality attributes to others in the unverse. As mortal will creatures, with personality, the attainment of our true personalities is wrought on discovering the "prepersonality" reservation of the First Source and Center, and in this sense all personalities reveal the will of the universal father, as a preminded reality of the universe. In this sense, the work of every sentient individual in the grand universe, shows aspects of God's true personality: in the personality of Michael the Creator we find the maximum experiencible relationship that mortal creatures of Nebadon have with "one who is like the Father". If Michael sharing this quality of Deity, bestowing the maximum attribute of his own personality on all the sentient creatures of his realm, then the choices you make: why not open to your own total becoming, become as much like Michael in terms of unified personality: a Creator Personality, an exalted Lord (Master), and a Universe Father.


I really like this. All the work done by every personality striving for divinity attainment is revealing the personality of the Father in the experiential worlds of time and space as God the Supreme. It takes every single one of us to accomplish this. Those who do not contribute result in a loss that contributes to the Supreme's struggle for expression. So much depends upon our free-will decisions.


Hmmmm….further endorsement of Stephen's claims. Confusing. So you and Stephen have not yet "attained" your "true personalities"? Really? When might those be expected??????????!!!!!! Currently you have false or temporary personalities?

What are personality "attributes"? Don't our choices reveal our current levels of immaturity/maturity, Circle Progress, relative wisdom, character, etc.? Don't my choices express me?

And you and Stephen are "pre-minded" eh??? So you agree with Stephen's claim that all personalities reveal God's will? Like his related claim that Lucifer was doing God's will by rebellion??? Hmmmm….. Really?

What/where is the pre-personality reservation? Is that where God keeps the TA's? You mean Divinington?

So then you also agree Kat that God's personality is true....but yours and Stephen's are not "true personalities"? What makes a personality less than true I wonder? How does a not yet true personality become true?

How do the Michaels bestow the maximum attributes of their own personality upon all the creatures in their realm? I agree they demonstrate and they bestow their spirit to minister mortals...but how do they bestow (?) the maximum (?) attributes (?) of their personality to others?


Hmmmm… What a confusing word scramble declaration of incomprehensible density.

:?:


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 183 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 ... 13  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Registered users: No registered users


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You can post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group