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Hey BB,
Have you looked at the subject of this thread you started, lately?








"Irreversible detachment of TA while person is still alive"





You've moved the goalposts so much that the discussion inside this thread is unrecognizable from what you started out saying.


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Here is the definition of knowledge. It should clear things up.

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fanofVan wrote:

Belief is NOT knowledge. But it may be ignorance + prejudice which is the lack of knowledge plus the love of our opinion and stubborn loyalty to it despite all evidence to the contrary.

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brooklyn_born wrote:
It was posted in the thread. Here it is.

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67:4.7 (758.5) The vast majority of all human and superhuman beings who were victims of the Lucifer rebellion on Jerusem and the various misled planets have long since heartily repented of their folly; and we truly believe that all such sincere penitents will in some manner be rehabilitated and restored to some phase of universe service when the Ancients of Days finally complete the adjudication of the affairs of the Satania rebellion, which they have so recently begun.







fanofVan wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:
Can we agree there are mortals on the prison world with detached TAs (a result of rebelling against the Universal Father, Michael) and the vast majority of them will be reunited with their TAs because they "repented" or grew in faith?


Nope. The Prince's rebel staff already had detached TA's due to their service as volunteers and not for punishment. You presume too much and post far too little supporting text.


Where's the TA abandonment quotes? Doesn't happen.


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brooklyn_born wrote:
Here is the definition of knowledge. It should clear things up.

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fanofVan wrote:

Belief is NOT knowledge. But it may be ignorance + prejudice which is the lack of knowledge plus the love of our opinion and stubborn loyalty to it despite all evidence to the contrary.


I hope so...belief is not knowledge...by definition.


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So this is BB's latest position:

brooklyn_born wrote:
Can we agree there are mortals on the prison world with detached TAs (a result of rebelling against the Universal Father, Michael) and the vast majority of them will be reunited with their TAs because they "repented" or grew in faith?


The thread subject says "Irreversible detachment of TA while person is still alive".

"mortals on the prison world" - not alive in the sense of Urantia life (remember, this started out being "rapists and murderers" - material world sins)
"s (a result of rebelling against the Universal Father, Michael)" - No, the TAs were detached before they even arrived on Urantia for service; not as punhisment
"will be reunited with their TAs" - not irreversible, then

So might as well end this thread now. The premise has been shown to be false and misleading.


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How so? I already supplied the reference in the entry post. I showed it is possible to be alive with an abandoned TA. All other posts in the thread stream are issues related to the topic.

Agon D. Onter wrote:
Hey BB,
Have you looked at the subject of this thread you started, lately?








"Irreversible detachment of TA while person is still alive"





You've moved the goalposts so much that the discussion inside this thread is unrecognizable from what you started out saying.

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Last edited by brooklyn_born on Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:21 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Agon D. Onter wrote:
So this is BB's latest position:

brooklyn_born wrote:
Can we agree there are mortals on the prison world with detached TAs (a result of rebelling against the Universal Father, Michael) and the vast majority of them will be reunited with their TAs because they "repented" or grew in faith?


The thread subject says "Irreversible detachment of TA while person is still alive".

"mortals on the prison world" - not alive in the sense of Urantia life (remember, this started out being "rapists and murderers" - material world sins)
"s (a result of rebelling against the Universal Father, Michael)" - No, the TAs were detached before they even arrived on Urantia for service; not as punhisment
"will be reunited with their TAs" - not irreversible, then

So might as well end this thread now. The premise has been shown to be false and misleading.


The premise is not false. I supplied the reference in the initial post of the thread to prove my point. I don't need to go any further on it. What you are quoting is me attempting at least to find common ground with you.

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The premise is false. Only happens with death of soul, mind, or body. Pick one. In all cases the soul, if there is one, also departs.

And no second Adjusters, no matter the day of the year.


Last edited by fanofVan on Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:16 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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The person is still alive physically. Here is the reference again.


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112:3.2 (1229.9) 1. Spiritual (soul) death. If and when mortal man has finally rejected survival, when he has been pronounced spiritually insolvent, morontially bankrupt, in the conjoint opinion of the Adjuster and the surviving seraphim, when such co-ordinate advice has been recorded on Uversa, and after the Censors and their reflective associates have verified these findings, thereupon do the rulers of Orvonton order the immediate release of the indwelling Monitor. But this release of the Adjuster in no way affects the duties of the personal or group seraphim concerned with that Adjuster-abandoned individual. This kind of death is final in its significance irrespective of the temporary continuation of the living energies of the physical and mind mechanisms. From the cosmic standpoint the mortal is already dead; the continuing life merely indicates the persistence of the material momentum of cosmic energies.


fanofVan wrote:
The premise is false. Only happens with death of soul, mind, or body. Pick one. In all cases the soul, if there is one, also departs.

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brooklyn_born wrote:
The person is still alive physically. Here is the reference again.


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112:3.2 (1229.9) 1. Spiritual (soul) death. If and when mortal man has finally rejected survival, when he has been pronounced spiritually insolvent, morontially bankrupt, in the conjoint opinion of the Adjuster and the surviving seraphim, when such co-ordinate advice has been recorded on Uversa, and after the Censors and their reflective associates have verified these findings, thereupon do the rulers of Orvonton order the immediate release of the indwelling Monitor. But this release of the Adjuster in no way affects the duties of the personal or group seraphim concerned with that Adjuster-abandoned individual. This kind of death is final in its significance irrespective of the temporary continuation of the living energies of the physical and mind mechanisms. From the cosmic standpoint the mortal is already dead; the continuing life merely indicates the persistence of the material momentum of cosmic energies.


fanofVan wrote:
The premise is false. Only happens with death of soul, mind, or body. Pick one. In all cases the soul, if there is one, also departs.


So? The vegetative state...the Spirit within knows if it's temporary or permanent and returns or never departs if temporary. Read 112:3.3 & 4


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fanofVan wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:
The person is still alive physically. Here is the reference again.


Quote:
112:3.2 (1229.9) 1. Spiritual (soul) death. If and when mortal man has finally rejected survival, when he has been pronounced spiritually insolvent, morontially bankrupt, in the conjoint opinion of the Adjuster and the surviving seraphim, when such co-ordinate advice has been recorded on Uversa, and after the Censors and their reflective associates have verified these findings, thereupon do the rulers of Orvonton order the immediate release of the indwelling Monitor. But this release of the Adjuster in no way affects the duties of the personal or group seraphim concerned with that Adjuster-abandoned individual. This kind of death is final in its significance irrespective of the temporary continuation of the living energies of the physical and mind mechanisms. From the cosmic standpoint the mortal is already dead; the continuing life merely indicates the persistence of the material momentum of cosmic energies.


fanofVan wrote:
The premise is false. Only happens with death of soul, mind, or body. Pick one. In all cases the soul, if there is one, also departs.


So? The vegetative state...the Spirit within knows if it's temporary or permanent and returns or never departs if temporary. Read 112:3.3 & 4


I provide reference to spiritual (soul) death. Why are you referring me to physical (body and mind) death? The two are unrelated. And how do you know it's "vegetative state"?

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45:4.1 At the center of the seven angelic residential circles on Jerusem is located the headquarters of the Urantia advisory council, the four and twenty counselors. J... These four and twenty counselors are his personal agents on Jerusem, and they have authority to represent the Master Son in all matters concerning the roll calls of Satania and in many other phases of the scheme of mortal ascension on the isolated worlds of the system. They are the designated agents for executing the special requests of Gabriel and the unusual mandates of Michael.


Honestly, such a topic is too trepidatious for me without the counsel of the four and twenty of jerusem. They preside over mortals of questionable status, and it is not a subject that pertains to the judgments of Urantian society, only the personal judgment of each individual psychologically. The issue is that all the members of the four and twenty on Jerusem try their best to save as many souls as possible.

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brooklyn_born wrote:
The person is still alive physically. Here is the reference again.


Quote:
112:3.2 (1229.9) 1. Spiritual (soul) death. If and when mortal man has finally rejected survival, when he has been pronounced spiritually insolvent, morontially bankrupt, in the conjoint opinion of the Adjuster and the surviving seraphim, when such co-ordinate advice has been recorded on Uversa, and after the Censors and their reflective associates have verified these findings, thereupon do the rulers of Orvonton order the immediate release of the indwelling Monitor. But this release of the Adjuster in no way affects the duties of the personal or group seraphim concerned with that Adjuster-abandoned individual. This kind of death is final in its significance irrespective of the temporary continuation of the living energies of the physical and mind mechanisms. From the cosmic standpoint the mortal is already dead; the continuing life merely indicates the persistence of the material momentum of cosmic energies.


fanofVan wrote:
The premise is false. Only happens with death of soul, mind, or body. Pick one. In all cases the soul, if there is one, also departs.


One may experience mind or soul death prior to bodily death. All 3 forms of death have the same result for the TA. None are caused by evil or sin and none results in a new TA...ever.


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Like I said, it is possible to be Adjuster-abandoned yet continue living a physical life.

fanofVan wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:
The person is still alive physically. Here is the reference again.


Quote:
112:3.2 (1229.9) 1. Spiritual (soul) death. If and when mortal man has finally rejected survival, when he has been pronounced spiritually insolvent, morontially bankrupt, in the conjoint opinion of the Adjuster and the surviving seraphim, when such co-ordinate advice has been recorded on Uversa, and after the Censors and their reflective associates have verified these findings, thereupon do the rulers of Orvonton order the immediate release of the indwelling Monitor. But this release of the Adjuster in no way affects the duties of the personal or group seraphim concerned with that Adjuster-abandoned individual. This kind of death is final in its significance irrespective of the temporary continuation of the living energies of the physical and mind mechanisms. From the cosmic standpoint the mortal is already dead; the continuing life merely indicates the persistence of the material momentum of cosmic energies.


fanofVan wrote:
The premise is false. Only happens with death of soul, mind, or body. Pick one. In all cases the soul, if there is one, also departs.


One may experience mind or soul death prior to bodily death. All 3 forms of death have the same result for the TA. None are caused by evil or sin and none results in a new TA...ever.

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But not get a second Adjuster per your false claims otherwise.


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