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An open forum for general discussions of a spiritual nature where guests and readers entertain the teachings of The Urantia Book.
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Re: Irreversible detachment of TA while person is still aliv

Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:04 pm +0000

Agon D. Onter wrote:Not true. Show me.


I apologize. I mistook Bradly's post for yours.

Re: Irreversible detachment of TA while person is still aliv

Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:06 pm +0000

fanofVan wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:Bradly you claimed it could not be done. Do you still hold to that position?


fanofVan wrote:Right...they are dead souls...non-surviving and unredeemable...the end of mercy credits. Kapoot. They cannot lose their TA and maintain their soul in this way.



I did NOT say it could not be done...I said it was and would be highly unusual and difficult during a brief material life to kill one's soul and commit self erasure/suicide and that Catholic mores and social crimes were irrelevant measurements of that potential.


Well...let me repeat my denial of your false claim too...just to be clear...post it if you can find it.

Re: Irreversible detachment of TA while person is still aliv

Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:11 pm +0000

So, back to the topic.

In soul death, the detachment is permanent/ irrevocable. In the self-acting adjuster, the detachment is temporary for the purpose of the self-acting adjuster to conduct its own necessary business while the human is asleep.

What BB claimed, on the other thread, is that a TA can and does detach at the moment a person becomes "unspiritual" or "a rapist or murderer". And stays detached UNTIL that person somehow "normalizes" (he's never explained how this happens) and repents and the TA re-attaches itself.

There is no text in UB supporting that scenario. Nor is there text that says a TA *first* arrives in a human after they have raped and murdered and then "repented". The UB tells us the TA arrives upon the FIRST moral decision. Can anyone think of a scenario where someone over the age of 6 has NEVER made a SINGLE moral decision?

Edited to add: other than subnormal minded, who lack the capacity to make decisions or to know God, according to the UB text.
Last edited by Agon D. Onter on Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:13 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Irreversible detachment of TA while person is still aliv

Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:11 pm +0000

fanofVan wrote:Well...let me repeat my denial of your false claim too...just to be clear...post it if you can find it.


Okay then I apologize for that error.

Re: Irreversible detachment of TA while person is still aliv

Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:16 pm +0000

Bradly, I may have to take my apology back. This is what you stated:

The idea of having, losing, and getting another TA is certainly a contradiction of the UB in any case.


Could you clarify what you mean by "losing" a TA is a contradiction of UB.

Re: Irreversible detachment of TA while person is still aliv

Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:19 pm +0000

There is no text that directly states it but it is inferred. What I do know is the supermortals lost their ability to reattach their TA because they sinned.

Agon D. Onter wrote:So, back to the topic.

In soul death, the detachment is permanent/ irrevocable. In the self-acting adjuster, the detachment is temporary for the purpose of the self-acting adjuster to conduct its own necessary business while the human is asleep.

What BB claimed, on the other thread, is that a TA can and does detach at the moment a person becomes "unspiritual" or "a rapist or murderer". And stays detached UNTIL that person somehow "normalizes" (he's never explained how this happens) and repents and the TA re-attaches itself.

There is no text in UB supporting that scenario. Nor is there text that says a TA *first* arrives in a human after they have raped and murdered and then "repented". The UB tells us the TA arrives upon the FIRST moral decision. Can anyone think of a scenario where someone over the age of 6 has NEVER made a SINGLE moral decision?

Edited to add: other than subnormal minded, who lack the capacity to make decisions or to know God, according to the UB text.

Re: Irreversible detachment of TA while person is still aliv

Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:27 pm +0000

brooklyn_born wrote:There is no text that directly states it but it is inferred. What I do know is the supermortals lost their ability to reattach their TA because they sinned.


Well, you claim to know more than the revelators do, then. You have jumped to a conclusion that is not supported by the text.

67:4.5 (758.3) When the staff of one hundred came to Urantia, they were temporarily detached from their Thought Adjusters. Immediately upon the arrival of the Melchizedek receivers the loyal personalities (except Van) were returned to Jerusem and were reunited with their waiting Adjusters. We know not the fate of the sixty staff rebels; their Adjusters still tarry on Jerusem. Matters will undoubtedly rest as they now are until the entire Lucifer rebellion is finally adjudicated and the fate of all participants decreed.


The rebels in the Lucifer Rebellion are given the opportunity to repent.

67:4.7 (758.5) The vast majority of all human and superhuman beings who were victims of the Lucifer rebellion on Jerusem and the various misled planets have long since heartily repented of their folly; and we truly believe that all such sincere penitents will in some manner be rehabilitated and restored to some phase of universe service when the Ancients of Days finally complete the adjudication of the affairs of the Satania rebellion, which they have so recently begun.

Re: Irreversible detachment of TA while person is still aliv

Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:56 am +0000

Agon D. Onter wrote:
Well, you claim to know more than the revelators do, then. You have jumped to a conclusion that is not supported by the text.


This is my belief and I have a right to it. Also, I am not competing with Revelators.

The rebels in the Lucifer Rebellion are given the opportunity to repent.

Quote:
67:4.7 (758.5) The vast majority of all human and superhuman beings who were victims of the Lucifer rebellion on Jerusem and the various misled planets have long since heartily repented of their folly; and we truly believe that all such sincere penitents will in some manner be rehabilitated and restored to some phase of universe service when the Ancients of Days finally complete the adjudication of the affairs of the Satania rebellion, which they have so recently begun


There is a minority of humans who have not repented. What do you think will happen to them?

Re: Irreversible detachment of TA while person is still aliv

Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:08 am +0000

brooklyn_born wrote:
Agon D. Onter wrote:
Well, you claim to know more than the revelators do, then. You have jumped to a conclusion that is not supported by the text.


This is my belief and I have a right to it. Also, I am not competing with Revelators.



Well, the post I was responding to said, " What I do know is …." Now you say you believe …. Knowledge and belief are two different things. I can accept that you say you believe it. I cannot accept when you say you know [a thing that the revelators say is unknown].


brooklyn_born wrote:The rebels in the Lucifer Rebellion are given the opportunity to repent.

Quote:
67:4.7 (758.5) The vast majority of all human and superhuman beings who were victims of the Lucifer rebellion on Jerusem and the various misled planets have long since heartily repented of their folly; and we truly believe that all such sincere penitents will in some manner be rehabilitated and restored to some phase of universe service when the Ancients of Days finally complete the adjudication of the affairs of the Satania rebellion, which they have so recently begun


brooklyn_born wrote:There is a minority of humans who have not repented. What do you think will happen to them?


They are given mercy credits and every other possible opportunity to make the right choice. If they persist in turning away from God they will be as if they never were. That is what UB tells us. Nothing of value is lost; however. Their TAs will carry forward the good things and their TAs will take up service elsewhere.

You should know all this, BB! Have you read the book?!

Re: Irreversible detachment of TA while person is still aliv

Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:13 am +0000

Agon D. Onter wrote:Well, the post I was responding to said, " What I do know is …." Now you say you believe …. Knowledge and belief are two different things. I can accept that you say you believe it. I cannot accept when you say you know [a thing that the revelators say is unknown].


What I know based on my belief, Agon.


They are given mercy credits and every other possible opportunity to make the right choice. If they persist in turning away from God they will be as if they never were. That is what UB tells us. Nothing of value is lost; however. Their TAs will carry forward the good things and their TAs will take up service elsewhere.


I agree but there is a reference which tells us those who remain unrepentant on the prison world will not seek out forgiveness. I will try to find it.

Re: Irreversible detachment of TA while person is still aliv

Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:17 am +0000

brooklyn_born wrote:
I agree but there is a reference which tells us those who remain unrepentant on the prison world will not seek out forgiveness. I will try to find it.


No reference needed, BB. That is only logical. It is common sense that if someone remains unrerepentant, they do not seek forgiveness. That's what 'unrepentant' means.

Re: Irreversible detachment of TA while person is still aliv

Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:24 am +0000

Can we agree there are mortals on the prison world with detached TAs (a result of rebelling against the Universal Father, Michael) and the vast majority of them will be reunited with their TAs because they "repented" or grew in faith?

Re: Irreversible detachment of TA while person is still aliv

Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:35 am +0000

brooklyn_born wrote:
Agon D. Onter wrote:Well, the post I was responding to said, " What I do know is …." Now you say you believe …. Knowledge and belief are two different things. I can accept that you say you believe it. I cannot accept when you say you know [a thing that the revelators say is unknown].


What I know based on my belief, Agon.


They are given mercy credits and every other possible opportunity to make the right choice. If they persist in turning away from God they will be as if they never were. That is what UB tells us. Nothing of value is lost; however. Their TAs will carry forward the good things and their TAs will take up service elsewhere.


I agree but there is a reference which tells us those who remain unrepentant on the prison world will not seek out forgiveness. I will try to find it.


Belief is NOT knowledge. But it may be ignorance + prejudice which is the lack of knowledge plus the love of our opinion and stubborn loyalty to it despite all evidence to the contrary.

Re: Irreversible detachment of TA while person is still aliv

Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:39 am +0000

brooklyn_born wrote:Can we agree there are mortals on the prison world with detached TAs (a result of rebelling against the Universal Father, Michael) and the vast majority of them will be reunited with their TAs because they "repented" or grew in faith?


Nope. The Prince's rebel staff already had detached TA's due to their service as volunteers and not for punishment. You presume too much and post far too little supporting text.

Re: Irreversible detachment of TA while person is still aliv

Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:08 am +0000

It was posted in the thread. Here it is.

67:4.7 (758.5) The vast majority of all human and superhuman beings who were victims of the Lucifer rebellion on Jerusem and the various misled planets have long since heartily repented of their folly; and we truly believe that all such sincere penitents will in some manner be rehabilitated and restored to some phase of universe service when the Ancients of Days finally complete the adjudication of the affairs of the Satania rebellion, which they have so recently begun.







fanofVan wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:Can we agree there are mortals on the prison world with detached TAs (a result of rebelling against the Universal Father, Michael) and the vast majority of them will be reunited with their TAs because they "repented" or grew in faith?


Nope. The Prince's rebel staff already had detached TA's due to their service as volunteers and not for punishment. You presume too much and post far too little supporting text.
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