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BB says above: "I disagree and gave you the example of a rapist and murderer in a previous reply. People like that are not indwelt until they come to repentance. "

brooklyn_born wrote:
You just answered the question. SUBNORMAL MIND.



A person cannot repent of having a subnormal mind, BB. You cannot have a subnormal mind and then repent and then suddenly your mind is all normal and a TA descends and you become all enlightened and ... stuff. That's not a thing.


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fanofVan wrote:



I've always wondered who might not receive one though. I've decided that perhaps it those sociopaths who never experience empathy or a social conscience of any sort - no love, no altruism, no guilt, no remorse. Again, a real short list.


Short list? lmfao You just described millions of people! Sociopath alone, in one study, 1 out of 25 people is a sociopath. Staggering.

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The idea of having, losing, and getting another TA is certainly a contradiction of the UB in any case.


Im not sure who stated that but I do think there can be a delay in the arrival of a TA to indwell someone. And I also believe as long as there is no fusion, one can lose a TA indwelling.

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I never said a subnormal mind can repent. A subnormal mind can normalize, and repentance then can be sought.


Agon D. Onter wrote:
BB says above: "I disagree and gave you the example of a rapist and murderer in a previous reply. People like that are not indwelt until they come to repentance. "

brooklyn_born wrote:
You just answered the question. SUBNORMAL MIND.



A person cannot repent of having a subnormal mind, BB. You cannot have a subnormal mind and then repent and then suddenly your mind is all normal and a TA descends and you become all enlightened and ... stuff. That's not a thing.

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"Normalize"? How? If you have the solution for that, you could potentially change the world, BB. If you know how a subnormal-minded person can magically "normalize" and go about their day, I mean, wow!


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Agon D. Onter wrote:
"Normalize"? How? If you have the solution for that, you could potentially change the world, BB. If you know how a subnormal-minded person can magically "normalize" and go about their day, I mean, wow!


I believe I explained this to you before. The Revelators borrowed a lot of psychology and science terms and amplified or enlarged them. They take on newer meanings. Subnormal is an outmoded and politically incorrect psychiatric term. But from the UB text it takes on an expanded meaning.

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BTW, Agon, I thought you said you couldn't discuss this anymore? :|


Image

:lol:

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brooklyn_born wrote:
Agon D. Onter wrote:
"Normalize"? How? If you have the solution for that, you could potentially change the world, BB. If you know how a subnormal-minded person can magically "normalize" and go about their day, I mean, wow!


I believe I explained this to you before. The Revelators borrowed a lot of psychology and science terms and amplified or enlarged them. They take on newer meanings. Subnormal is an outmoded and politically incorrect psychiatric term. But from the UB text it takes on an expanded meaning.


UB quote please.

I will supply a quote for my reasoning.

Quote:
113:1.3 (1241.5) 1. The subnormal minded—those who do not exercise normal will power; those who do not make average decisions. This class embraces those who cannot comprehend God; they lack capacity for the intelligent worship of Deity...


Subnormal means intellectually challenged. People who, out of no fault of their own, lack the capacity for intelligent thought (perhaps they were born with Down's Syndrome, or other brain illness or defect). Of which there are plenty in today's world; and no, they cannot AND HAVE NO NEED TO repent and suddenly be normal-minded.

Continuing the quote above:

Quote:
... The subnormal beings of Urantia have a corps of seraphim, one company, with one battalion of cherubim, assigned to minister to them and to witness that justice and mercy are extended to them in the life struggles of the sphere


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Agon D. Onter wrote:
UB quote please.


This:

Quote:
0:12.11 (16.8) In formulating the succeeding presentations having to do with the portrayal of the character of the Universal Father and the nature of his Paradise associates, together with an attempted description of the perfect central universe and the encircling seven superuniverses, we are to be guided by the mandate of the superuniverse rulers which directs that we shall, in all our efforts to reveal truth and co-ordinate essential knowledge, give preference to the highest existing human concepts pertaining to the subjects to be presented. We may resort to pure revelation only when the concept of presentation has had no adequate previous expression by the human mind.


and here:

Quote:
2:0.3 (33.3) In all our efforts to enlarge and spiritualize the human concept of God, we are tremendously handicapped by the limited capacity of the mortal mind. We are also seriously handicapped in the execution of our assignment by the limitations of language and by the poverty of material which can be utilized for purposes of illustration or comparison in our efforts to portray divine values and to present spiritual meanings to the finite, mortal mind of man. All our efforts to enlarge the human concept of God would be well-nigh futile except for the fact that the mortal mind is indwelt by the bestowed Adjuster of the Universal Father and is pervaded by the Truth Spirit of the Creator Son. Depending, therefore, on the presence of these divine spirits within the heart of man for assistance in the enlargement of the concept of God, I cheerfully undertake the execution of my mandate to attempt the further portrayal of the nature of God to the mind of I will supply a quote for my reasoning.


Agon D. Onter wrote:

Subnormal means intellectually challenged.


How do you measure intelligence to determine if a mind is subnormal or not? How do celestials measure it?

Agon D. Onter wrote:

People who, out of no fault of their own, lack the capacity for intelligent thought (perhaps they were born with Down's Syndrome, or other brain illness or defect). Of which there are plenty in today's world; and no, they cannot AND HAVE NO NEED TO repent and suddenly be normal-minded.


You do not know definitively how these spiritual beings measure intelligence. You and I speculate.

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I'm not speculating. The UB quote I posted above says EXACTLY how they measure it.

113:1.3 (1241.5) 1. The subnormal minded—those who do not exercise normal will power; those who do not make average decisions. This class embraces those who cannot comprehend God; they lack capacity for the intelligent worship of Deity...

There are 4 very specific measures in that one sentence!


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C'mon, BB. I could use these quotes to justify saying that the UB teaches the moon is made of cheese - they have just "expanded" the meaning. Using what you posted, but using 'cheese' instead of 'subnormal', I could say:

The Revelators borrowed a lot of psychology and science food terms and amplified or enlarged them. They take on newer meanings. Cheese is an outmoded and politically incorrect term. But from the UB text it takes on an expanded meaning.

Quote:
0:12.11 (16.8 ) In formulating the succeeding presentations having to do with the portrayal of the character of the Universal Father and the nature of his Paradise associates, together with an attempted description of the perfect central universe and the encircling seven superuniverses, we are to be guided by the mandate of the superuniverse rulers which directs that we shall, in all our efforts to reveal truth and co-ordinate essential knowledge, give preference to the highest existing human concepts pertaining to the subjects to be presented. We may resort to pure revelation only when the concept of presentation has had no adequate previous expression by the human mind.


and here:

Quote:
2:0.3 (33.3) In all our efforts to enlarge and spiritualize the human concept of God, we are tremendously handicapped by the limited capacity of the mortal mind. We are also seriously handicapped in the execution of our assignment by the limitations of language and by the poverty of material which can be utilized for purposes of illustration or comparison in our efforts to portray divine values and to present spiritual meanings to the finite, mortal mind of man. All our efforts to enlarge the human concept of God would be well-nigh futile except for the fact that the mortal mind is indwelt by the bestowed Adjuster of the Universal Father and is pervaded by the Truth Spirit of the Creator Son. Depending, therefore, on the presence of these divine spirits within the heart of man for assistance in the enlargement of the concept of God, I cheerfully undertake the execution of my mandate to attempt the further portrayal of the nature of God to the mind of I will supply a quote for my reasoning.


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Here is a working definition of subhuman the time the papers were produced.

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68:6.11 (770.8) From a world standpoint, overpopulation has never been a serious problem in the past, but if war is lessened and science increasingly controls human diseases, it may become a serious problem in the near future. At such a time the great test of the wisdom of world leadership will present itself. Will Urantia rulers have the insight and courage to foster the multiplication of the average or stabilized human being instead of the extremes of the supernormal and the enormously increasing groups of the subnormal? The normal man should be fostered; he is the backbone of civilization and the source of the mutant geniuses of the race. The subnormal man should be kept under society’s control; no more should be produced than are required to administer the lower levels of industry, those tasks requiring intelligence above the animal level but making such low-grade demands as to prove veritable slavery and bondage for the higher types of mankind.



Sounds familiar? *hint* *hint* that revelation is describing slavery, in this case, slavery of the West. In essence an African is a subhuman if I am to accept the literal interpretation of the text.

Do you still think these terms hold their original psychology meaning when reading revelation?



Agon D. Onter wrote:
I'm not speculating. The UB quote I posted above says EXACTLY how they measure it.

113:1.3 (1241.5) 1. The subnormal minded—those who do not exercise normal will power; those who do not make average decisions. This class embraces those who cannot comprehend God; they lack capacity for the intelligent worship of Deity...

There are 4 very specific measures in that one sentence!

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Are you telling me the celestials didn't borrow terms from our high sciences?

Agon D. Onter wrote:
C'mon, BB. I could use these quotes to justify saying that the UB teaches the moon is made of cheese - they have just "expanded" the meaning. Using what you posted, but using 'cheese' instead of 'subnormal', I could say:

The Revelators borrowed a lot of psychology and science food terms and amplified or enlarged them. They take on newer meanings. Cheese is an outmoded and politically incorrect term. But from the UB text it takes on an expanded meaning.

Quote:
0:12.11 (16.8 ) In formulating the succeeding presentations having to do with the portrayal of the character of the Universal Father and the nature of his Paradise associates, together with an attempted description of the perfect central universe and the encircling seven superuniverses, we are to be guided by the mandate of the superuniverse rulers which directs that we shall, in all our efforts to reveal truth and co-ordinate essential knowledge, give preference to the highest existing human concepts pertaining to the subjects to be presented. We may resort to pure revelation only when the concept of presentation has had no adequate previous expression by the human mind.


and here:

Quote:
2:0.3 (33.3) In all our efforts to enlarge and spiritualize the human concept of God, we are tremendously handicapped by the limited capacity of the mortal mind. We are also seriously handicapped in the execution of our assignment by the limitations of language and by the poverty of material which can be utilized for purposes of illustration or comparison in our efforts to portray divine values and to present spiritual meanings to the finite, mortal mind of man. All our efforts to enlarge the human concept of God would be well-nigh futile except for the fact that the mortal mind is indwelt by the bestowed Adjuster of the Universal Father and is pervaded by the Truth Spirit of the Creator Son. Depending, therefore, on the presence of these divine spirits within the heart of man for assistance in the enlargement of the concept of God, I cheerfully undertake the execution of my mandate to attempt the further portrayal of the nature of God to the mind of I will supply a quote for my reasoning.

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So, these are all things you've said BB. Can you provide a UB quote that supports any ONE of these statements?

Quote:
man always has an opportunity to be encircuited at any point in his life when he chooses to repent

the example of a rapist and murderer in a previous reply. People like that are not indwelt until they come to repentance.

Then in reply to Bradly’s question of “Who can lose their TA?” you wrote:
You just answered the question. SUBNORMAL MIND.

I do think there can be a delay in the arrival of a TA to indwell someone. And I also believe as long as there is no fusion, one can lose a TA indwelling.

I never said a subnormal mind can repent. A subnormal mind can normalize, and repentance then can be sought.

*hint* *hint* that revelation is describing slavery, in this case, slavery of the West. In essence an African is a subhuman if I am to accept the literal interpretation of the text.


So, by your [illogical and circuitous self-contradictory] reasoning, an African slave is "subhuman" / subnormal, can somehow "normalize" and then seek repentance, and then that former African slave who, by dint of his own action to "normalize" himself is somehow no longer a slave/ subhuman/ subnormal and THEN! A TA! Arrives! Because he REPENTED! From being a slave!

wow.... just. no words.


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Agon D. Onter wrote:
So, by your [illogical and circuitous self-contradictory] reasoning, an African slave is "subhuman" / subnormal, can somehow "normalize" and then seek repentance, and then that former African slave who, by dint of his own action to "normalize" himself is somehow no longer a slave/ subhuman/ subnormal and THEN! A TA! Arrives! Because he REPENTED! From being a slave!

wow.... just. no words.


Nope, that is not what I said. I said if we are to go by the definition of what a subhuman is, based on the racist science of the early 20th century, then Africans today would be considered subhuman. This is why I said Revelators enlarged the meaning of those terms.

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Agon D. Onter wrote:
So, these are all things you've said BB. Can you provide a UB quote that supports any ONE of these statements?

man always has an opportunity to be encircuited at any point in his life when he chooses to repent


Right here:

Quote:
34:5.4 (379.4) When mind is thus endowed with the ministry of the Holy Spirit, it possesses the capacity for (consciously or unconsciously) choosing the spiritual presence of the Universal Father—the Thought Adjuster. But it is not until a bestowal Son has liberated the Spirit of Truth for planetary ministry to all mortals that all normal minds are automatically prepared for the reception of the Thought Adjusters. The Spirit of Truth works as one with the presence of
the spirit of the Divine Minister. This dual spirit liaison hovers over the worlds, seeking to teach truth and to spiritually enlighten the minds of men, to inspire the souls of the creatures of the ascending races, and to lead the peoples dwelling on the evolutionary planets ever towards their Paradise goal of divine destiny.


This event is written in the continuous present tense: "seeking."

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