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Then let me rephrase for clarity's sake.

Are all adult humans indwelt? I am of the opinion, no.

As for who they are, I believe the reference tells us any celestial being back then was capable of doing it, including Seraphims.



Agon D. Onter wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:
It begs the question, are all humans indwelt? I do not think so.


This question does not need to be 'begged' on a UB forum - we KNOW not all humans are indwelt by Adjusters. Those too young to make a moral decision, as an example, are humans who are not indwelt. Also, those who are, essentially, insane or incapable of conscious choice are also not indwelt. There is no debate about that.

You still haven't answered my question. Who are these celestial beings (or "force" as you say) whom you claim wish to invade our minds and influence or minds? To what end? Why would they bother; they all have their own work to do. We know from UB that the human ascension plan is but a small part of what goes on in the universes.

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Yes, seraphim can influence the human mind and they have a purpose for it.

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114:6.19 (1256.9) The master seraphim of planetary supervision utilize many agencies for the prosecution of their missions. They function as ideational clearinghouses, mind focalizers, and project promoters. While unable to inject new and higher conceptions into human minds, they often act to intensify some higher ideal which has already appeared within a human intellect.


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Influence is much stronger and outcome more predictive when the change agent is indwelling the mind.

Agon D. Onter wrote:
Yes, seraphim can influence the human mind and they have a purpose for it.

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114:6.19 (1256.9) The master seraphim of planetary supervision utilize many agencies for the prosecution of their missions. They function as ideational clearinghouses, mind focalizers, and project promoters. While unable to inject new and higher conceptions into human minds, they often act to intensify some higher ideal which has already appeared within a human intellect.

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brooklyn_born wrote:
They have different meanings. Invade is a forceful entry. Indwell is inhabiting what was entered.


I rather think that invading and indwelling are simultaneous events since the word "invade" can mean occupy according to the dictionary. I can't imagine the authors meant "take by force" or "forceful entry" because the sanctity of human free will would prevent such a thing. I think it's actually impossible because God decreed that free will has absolute sovereignty.

(71.3) 5:6.8 As pertains to eternal survival, God has decreed the sovereignty of the material and mortal will, and that decree is absolute.


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brooklyn_born wrote:
Influence is much stronger and outcome more predictive when the change agent is indwelling the mind.



No doubt! Which is why, post-Pentecost, the God fragment/ Thought Adjuster, enjoys that privilege exclusively. Although I disagree with "the outcome more predictive" part of your statement. I would say 'potential outcome more effective'.


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katroofjebus wrote:
I rather think that invading and indwelling are simultaneous events since the word "invade" can mean occupy according to the dictionary.


According to what dictionary? Could you supply your reference? I have never come across a definition of invade to mean occupy. I know armies invade then occupy. Never heard of the term invasion used interchangeably with occupation.


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I can't imagine the authors meant "take by force" or "forceful entry" because the sanctity of human free will would prevent such a thing.


Where does it speak of the sanctity of human free will?


I think it's actually impossible because God decreed that free will has absolute sovereignty.

(71.3) 5:6.8 As pertains to eternal survival, God has decreed the sovereignty of the material and mortal will, and that decree is absolute.[/quote]

I think you misunderstood my position on free will. Free will is sovereign in evolutionary worlds and ascending up through the morontial spheres. However, free will is not ever sovereign; it is actually predicated on mortality, time and space. Look at the scripture you supplied, it says "material and mortal" will. Does that sound eternal to you?

I think once fusion occurs, free will begins to dissolve to give place to divine will.

Take a read here. It may shed some light on the subject:

Quote:
118:6.6 (1300.2) In the mortal life, paths of differential conduct are continually opening and closing, and during the times when choice is possible the human personality is constantly deciding between these many courses of action. Temporal volition is linked to time, and it must await the passing of time to find opportunity for expression. Spiritual volition has begun to taste liberation from the fetters of time, having achieved partial escape from time sequence, and that is because spiritual volition is self-identifying with the will of God.

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Agon D. Onter wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:
Influence is much stronger and outcome more predictive when the change agent is indwelling the mind.



No doubt! Which is why, post-Pentecost, the God fragment/ Thought Adjuster, enjoys that privilege exclusively. Although I disagree with "the outcome more predictive" part of your statement. I would say 'potential outcome more effective'.


I don't dispute what you say about the protective measures in place against mind invasion, measures like TA, SoT and HS . I think the sticking point between us is whether or not adult humans are indwelt. I don't think all adults are and I think you can gauge the state of one's spirituality by the fruits they bear. A rapist or murderer certainly is not indwelt based on my understanding until they come to repentance and then the doors of Pentecost are open to them.

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brooklyn_born wrote:
I think the stinking point between us is whether or not adult humans are indwelt. I don't think all adults are and I think you can gauge the state of one's spirituality by the fruits they bear. A rapist or murderer certainly is not indwelt based on my understanding until they come to repentance and then the doors of Pentecost are open to them.


Did you read what I wrote, which you quoted at the top of this page?

Quote:
Those too young to make a moral decision, as an example, are humans who are not indwelt. Also, those who are, essentially, insane or incapable of conscious choice are also not indwelt.


Those would be adults, primarily. I agree with you that there are adults who are not indwelt. Very few, relatively speaking, but there ARE some.

However, I disagree with your statement above about racists and murderers not having TA. They certainly might have a TA. For example, someone who murders their rapist (in self defense). Haha. But anyway. I also disagree that one who does not have a TA can somehow get one once they "come to repentance". That is old school religion talkin' right there. There is no such thing as the "doors of Pentecost". Pentecost is a singular event, that has already happened.


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Agon D. Onter wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:
I think the stinking point between us is whether or not adult humans are indwelt. I don't think all adults are and I think you can gauge the state of one's spirituality by the fruits they bear. A rapist or murderer certainly is not indwelt based on my understanding until they come to repentance and then the doors of Pentecost are open to them.


Did you read what I wrote, which you quoted at the top of this page?

Quote:
Those too young to make a moral decision, as an example, are humans who are not indwelt. Also, those who are, essentially, insane or incapable of conscious choice are also not indwelt.


Those would be adults, primarily. I agree with you that there are adults who are not indwelt. Very few, relatively speaking, but there ARE some.

However, I disagree with your statement above about racists and murderers not having TA. They certainly might have a TA. For example, someone who murders their rapist (in self defense). Haha. But anyway. I also disagree that one who does not have a TA can somehow get one once they "come to repentance". That is old school religion talkin' right there. There is no such thing as the "doors of Pentecost". Pentecost is a singular event, that has already happened.


Pentecost is celebrated 50 days after Passover. This occurs every year. Every year an unspiritual person has opportunity to get encircuited and receive a TA. This is my position, so you have an idea of my frame of thought.

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brooklyn_born wrote:

Pentecost is celebrated 50 days after Passover. This occurs every year. Every year an unspiritual person has opportunity to get encircuited and receive a TA. This is my position, so you have an idea of my frame of thought.


Wow! Like a lottery? I definitely don't remember reading about that in the UB. I would have remembered that.


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When Jesus came into the world, this Holiday, Pentecost, was already underway, a few centuries old, in fact, celebrated by the Jews. It was called Feast of Weeks (Shavot.) The SoT and HT are forever hovering in our atmosphere and TA are forever coming down to earth to indwell human minds. Pentecost is ongoing just like the spirit ministries.


Agon D. Onter wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:

Pentecost is celebrated 50 days after Passover. This occurs every year. Every year an unspiritual person has opportunity to get encircuited and receive a TA. This is my position, so you have an idea of my frame of thought.


Wow! Like a lottery? I definitely don't remember reading about that in the UB. I would have remembered that.

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Sure but what are the "doors of Pentecost"?

Also,I don't see anything in UB about subsequent annual Pentecost celebrations (those occurring after the Pentecost during which the Spirit of Truth was poured out upon all) involving adults receiving Thought Adusters (as you said, "Pentecost is celebrated 50 days after Passover. This occurs every year. Every year an unspiritual person has opportunity to get encircuited and receive a TA.")

UB quote, please?


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Agon D. Onter wrote:
Sure but what are the "doors of Pentecost"?


I was waxing poetically to describe the day of Pentecost Holiday which comes every year.

Quote:
Also,I don't see anything in UB about subsequent annual Pentecost celebrations (those occurring after the Pentecost during which the Spirit of Truth was poured out upon all) involving adults receiving Thought Adusters (as you said, "Pentecost is celebrated 50 days after Passover. This occurs every year. Every year an unspiritual person has opportunity to get encircuited and receive a TA.")




UB quote, please?


There is no quote. The Holiday existed before Jesus and continues to exist after him. It is implied that the Holiday is a recurring event based on its very definition (Holiday). Further, SoT and HT are still hovering and being poured onto flesh. Why are they still hovering and being poured? It's a recurring event as well. They function to prepare the mind for indwelling and indwelling is an endless event.

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brooklyn_born wrote:

There is no quote. The Holiday existed before Jesus and continues to exist after him. It is implied that the Holiday is a recurring event based on its very definition (Holiday). Further, SoT and HT are still hovering and being poured onto flesh. Why are they still hovering and being poured? It's a recurring event as well. They function to prepare the mind for indwelling and indwelling is an endless event.


Yes, that's right.

Nevertheless, you are unable to provide UB references for your statement, "Every year [at celebration of Pentecost] an unspiritual person has opportunity to get encircuited and receive a TA."


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come on now. The historical events in TUB end with the New Testament! Lol :D How do you expect me to furnish a reference of a recurring event when the Celestial authors stop their narration of history at the life and times of Jesus? In the words of famous Disk Jockey, Ed Lover, "Come on, Son!" :lol:

Seriously, all jokes aside, and I have made this point ad nauseam on this BBS. UB does not present historical events pass 5 AD.



Agon D. Onter wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:

There is no quote. The Holiday existed before Jesus and continues to exist after him. It is implied that the Holiday is a recurring event based on its very definition (Holiday). Further, SoT and HT are still hovering and being poured onto flesh. Why are they still hovering and being poured? It's a recurring event as well. They function to prepare the mind for indwelling and indwelling is an endless event.


Yes, that's right.

Nevertheless, you are unable to provide UB references for your statement, "Every year [at celebration of Pentecost] an unspiritual person has opportunity to get encircuited and receive a TA."

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