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SEla_Kelly wrote:
This is a scary topic! There is a great difference between ascending mortals who are capable of being assigned to worlds such as Urantia, and Jesus, having permanently detached from his indwelling Thought Adjuster, before the wedding at Cana. I believe that such detachment is incomparable to soul-death, in that the Thought Adjuster maintains or withholds a permanent relationship to that individual. It meant their own actions they had true responsibility, already having been deemed capable of recognition wisdom. Having the divine rest, is the pursuit of a human mind that can allow God to move freely about the universe, to collect energies and powers of new possibilities, I do not see why a Thought Adjuster would abandon a soul.


Sorry Stephen but ascending mortals are not "assigned" to their worlds of origin and God does not depend upon any mortal mind to move freely. But yes, the TA's ministry is permanent even with temporary detachment. And no redo's after soul death. Even the TA'S are not assigned but volunteer and select the mortal for their indwelling.


Last edited by fanofVan on Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:45 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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A woman can have a miscarriage. I think this can happen to an unfused soul, as well. There were ascending mortals on the mansion world who joined the rebellion; their TAs detached as a result. And because they had yet fused with their Adjuster and remained unrepentant, I believe their personality will face annihilation. The below reference applies to them.

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112:3.2 (1229.9) 1. Spiritual (soul) death. If and when mortal man has finally rejected survival, when he has been pronounced spiritually insolvent, morontially bankrupt, in the conjoint opinion of the Adjuster and the surviving seraphim, when such co-ordinate advice has been recorded on Uversa, and after the Censors and their reflective associates have verified these findings, thereupon do the rulers of Orvonton order the immediate release of the indwelling Monitor. But this release of the Adjuster in no way affects the duties of the personal or group seraphim concerned with that Adjuster-abandoned individual. This kind of death is final in its significance irrespective of the temporary continuation of the living energies of the physical and mind mechanisms. From the cosmic standpoint the mortal is already dead; the continuing life merely indicates the persistence of the material momentum of cosmic energies



SEla_Kelly wrote:
This is a scary topic! There is a great difference between ascending mortals who are capable of being assigned to worlds such as Urantia, and Jesus, having permanently detached from his indwelling Thought Adjuster, before the wedding at Cana. I believe that such detachment is incomparable to soul-death, in that the Thought Adjuster maintains or withholds a permanent relationship to that individual. It meant their own actions they had true responsibility, already having been deemed capable of recognition wisdom. Having the divine rest, is the pursuit of a human mind that can allow God to move freely about the universe, to collect energies and powers of new possibilities, I do not see why a Thought Adjuster would abandon a soul.

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Last edited by brooklyn_born on Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:27 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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brooklyn_born wrote:
There were ascendant mortals on the mansion world who joined the rebellion; their TAs detached as a result.


I hope you know that the term "ascendant mortal" or "ascending son" is a term only applied to fused souls. Prior to fusion mortals are called faith-sons. The Thought Adjuster cannot detach after fusion because his number is stricken from the records on Divingington when he becomes an eternal partner to a personality. References:

(447.5) 40:6.1 You will be reckoned as ascending sons the instant fusion takes place, but the status of the mortals of time and space is that of faith sons prior to the event of the final amalgamation of the surviving mortal soul with some type of eternal and immortal spirit.

(448.9) 40.7.2  Your own races of surviving mortals belong to this group of the ascending Sons of God. You are now planetary sons, evolutionary creatures derived from the Life Carrier implantations and modified by the Adamic-life infusion, hardly yet ascending sons; but you are indeed sons of ascension potential — even to the highest heights of glory and divinity attainment — and this spiritual status of ascending sonship you may attain by faith and by freewill co-operation with the spiritualizing activities of the indwelling Adjuster. When you and your Adjusters are finally and forever fused, when you two are made one, even as in Christ Michael the Son of God and the Son of Man are one, then in fact have you become the ascending sons of God.

(1239.2) 112:7.13 When once an Adjuster fuses with an ascending mortal, the number of that Adjuster is stricken from the records of the superuniverse. What happens on the records of Divinington, I do not know, but I surmise that the registry of that Adjuster is removed to the secret circles of the inner courts of Grandfanda, the acting head of the Corps of the Finality.


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I should have typed "ascending mortals." I will correct that.

katroofjebus wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:
There were ascendant mortals on the mansion world who joined the rebellion; their TAs detached as a result.


I hope you know that the term "ascendant mortal" or "ascending son" is a term only applied to fused souls. Prior to fusion mortals are called faith-sons. The Thought Adjuster cannot detach after fusion because his number is stricken from the records on Divingington when he becomes an eternal partner to a personality. References:

(447.5) 40:6.1 You will be reckoned as ascending sons the instant fusion takes place, but the status of the mortals of time and space is that of faith sons prior to the event of the final amalgamation of the surviving mortal soul with some type of eternal and immortal spirit.

(448.9) 40.7.2  Your own races of surviving mortals belong to this group of the ascending Sons of God. You are now planetary sons, evolutionary creatures derived from the Life Carrier implantations and modified by the Adamic-life infusion, hardly yet ascending sons; but you are indeed sons of ascension potential — even to the highest heights of glory and divinity attainment — and this spiritual status of ascending sonship you may attain by faith and by freewill co-operation with the spiritualizing activities of the indwelling Adjuster. When you and your Adjusters are finally and forever fused, when you two are made one, even as in Christ Michael the Son of God and the Son of Man are one, then in fact have you become the ascending sons of God.

(1239.2) 112:7.13 When once an Adjuster fuses with an ascending mortal, the number of that Adjuster is stricken from the records of the superuniverse. What happens on the records of Divinington, I do not know, but I surmise that the registry of that Adjuster is removed to the secret circles of the inner courts of Grandfanda, the acting head of the Corps of the Finality.

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brooklyn_born wrote:
A woman can have a miscarriage. I think this can happen to an unfused soul, as well. There were ascendant mortals on the mansion world who joined the rebellion; their TAs detached as a result.


Not true. Again, BB, I have to ask. Have you read the book?

67:4.5 (758.3) When the staff of one hundred came to Urantia, they were temporarily detached from their Thought Adjusters. Immediately upon the arrival of the Melchizedek receivers the loyal personalities (except Van) were returned to Jerusem and were reunited with their waiting Adjusters. We know not the fate of the sixty staff rebels; their Adjusters still tarry on Jerusem. Matters will undoubtedly rest as they now are until the entire Lucifer rebellion is finally adjudicated and the fate of all participants decreed.


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brooklyn_born wrote:
I should have typed "ascending mortals." I will correct that.

katroofjebus wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:
There were ascendant mortals on the mansion world who joined the rebellion; their TAs detached as a result.


I think you missed my point. Thought Adjusters cannot detach from ascending mortals or ascendant mortals because they are fused. Fused Adjusters are fused for eternity.

To be correct you have to change it to faith-sons.


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I am not referring to the superhumans that came to Urantia. I am talking about the humans on the lower mansions who joined the rebellion.


Agon D. Onter wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:
A woman can have a miscarriage. I think this can happen to an unfused soul, as well. There were ascendant mortals on the mansion world who joined the rebellion; their TAs detached as a result.


Not true. Again, BB, I have to ask. Have you read the book?

67:4.5 (758.3) When the staff of one hundred came to Urantia, they were temporarily detached from their Thought Adjusters. Immediately upon the arrival of the Melchizedek receivers the loyal personalities (except Van) were returned to Jerusem and were reunited with their waiting Adjusters. We know not the fate of the sixty staff rebels; their Adjusters still tarry on Jerusem. Matters will undoubtedly rest as they now are until the entire Lucifer rebellion is finally adjudicated and the fate of all participants decreed.

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Ascending mortals on the first and second mansion are yet fused with their TA. Fusion occurs in the last two mansions, in general. But interestingly there are cases where fusion is delayed post mansion world sojourn.



katroofjebus wrote:
I think you missed my point. Thought Adjusters cannot detach from ascending mortals or ascendant mortals because they are fused. Fused Adjusters are fused for eternity.

To be correct you have to change it to faith-sons.

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brooklyn_born wrote:
A woman can have a miscarriage. I think this can happen to an unfused soul, as well. There were ascending mortals on the mansion world who joined the rebellion; their TAs detached as a result. And because they had yet fused with their Adjuster and remained unrepentant, I believe their personality will face annihilation. The below reference applies to them.

Quote:
[color=#0000FF]112:3.2 (1229.9) 1. Spiritual (soul) death. If and when mortal man has finally rejected survival, when he has been pronounced spiritually insolvent, morontially bankrupt, in the conjoint opinion of the Adjuster and the surviving seraphim, when such co-ordinate advice has been recorded on Uversa, and after the Censors and their reflective associates have verified these findings, thereupon do the rulers of Orvonton order the immediate release of the indwelling Monitor. But this release of the Adjuster in no way affects the duties of the personal or group seraphim concerned with that Adjuster-abandoned individual. This kind of death is final in its significance irrespective of the temporary continuation of the living energies of the physical and mind mechanisms. From the cosmic standpoint the mortal is already dead; the continuing life merely indicates the persistence of the material momentum of cosmic energies


So you have gone to alllllllll this effort simply to say that unfused mortals can experience soul death. Well, sure! That's obvious. It's right there in UB. No one has disputed that.


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brooklyn_born wrote:
I am not referring to the superhumans that came to Urantia. I am talking about the humans on the lower mansions who joined the rebellion.


Agon D. Onter wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:
A woman can have a miscarriage. I think this can happen to an unfused soul, as well. There were ascendant mortals on the mansion world who joined the rebellion; their TAs detached as a result.


Not true. Again, BB, I have to ask. Have you read the book?

67:4.5 (758.3) When the staff of one hundred came to Urantia, they were temporarily detached from their Thought Adjusters. Immediately upon the arrival of the Melchizedek receivers the loyal personalities (except Van) were returned to Jerusem and were reunited with their waiting Adjusters. We know not the fate of the sixty staff rebels; their Adjusters still tarry on Jerusem. Matters will undoubtedly rest as they now are until the entire Lucifer rebellion is finally adjudicated and the fate of all participants decreed.


Still a false claim without text support. Post that text which says that mortals on the mansion worlds lost their TA's due to rebellion, sin, or error/evil. Please.


Last edited by fanofVan on Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:33 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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brooklyn_born wrote:
Ascending mortals on the first and second mansion are yet fused with their TA. Fusion occurs in the last two mansions, in general. But interestingly there are cases where fusion is delayed post mansion world sojourn.





Oh, boy. More falsehoods. Just when it seemed we were making progress.

Mortals can fuse with their TA while still on Urantia or at any time up to Jerusem (or Edentia, I can't remember exactly which).

Gah! Have you read the book?!

P1237:5, 112:7.3 Fusion with the Adjuster is usually effected while the ascender is resident within his local system. It may occur on the planet of nativity as a transcendence of natural death; it may take place on any one of the mansion worlds or on the headquarters of the system; it may even be delayed until the time of the constellation sojourn; or, in special instances, it may not be consummated until the ascender is on the local universe capital.


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Agon, the post you are quoting was not directed to you. Let the person it was directed to tell me "that's obvious." There is a reason why I replied that way to that person. You are now giving me the impression you are just looking to argue with me. That is not constructive debate or discourse. Please put a stop to it. Thanks.

Agon D. Onter wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:
A woman can have a miscarriage. I think this can happen to an unfused soul, as well. There were ascending mortals on the mansion world who joined the rebellion; their TAs detached as a result. And because they had yet fused with their Adjuster and remained unrepentant, I believe their personality will face annihilation. The below reference applies to them.

Quote:
[color=#0000FF]112:3.2 (1229.9) 1. Spiritual (soul) death. If and when mortal man has finally rejected survival, when he has been pronounced spiritually insolvent, morontially bankrupt, in the conjoint opinion of the Adjuster and the surviving seraphim, when such co-ordinate advice has been recorded on Uversa, and after the Censors and their reflective associates have verified these findings, thereupon do the rulers of Orvonton order the immediate release of the indwelling Monitor. But this release of the Adjuster in no way affects the duties of the personal or group seraphim concerned with that Adjuster-abandoned individual. This kind of death is final in its significance irrespective of the temporary continuation of the living energies of the physical and mind mechanisms. From the cosmic standpoint the mortal is already dead; the continuing life merely indicates the persistence of the material momentum of cosmic energies


So you have gone to alllllllll this effort simply to say that unfused mortals can experience soul death. Well, sure! That's obvious. It's right there in UB. No one has disputed that.

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brooklyn_born wrote:
Agon, the post you are quoting was not directed to you. Let the person it was directed to tell me "that's obvious." There is a reason why I replied that way to that person. You are now giving me the impression you are just looking to argue with me. That is not constructive debate or discourse. Please put a stop to it. Thanks.



But … but …. I agreed with you.


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Agon, you know what you are doing. Just chill.

Agon D. Onter wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:
Agon, the post you are quoting was not directed to you. Let the person it was directed to tell me "that's obvious." There is a reason why I replied that way to that person. You are now giving me the impression you are just looking to argue with me. That is not constructive debate or discourse. Please put a stop to it. Thanks.



But … but …. I agreed with you.

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brooklyn_born wrote:
Ascending mortals on the first and second mansion are yet fused with their TA. Fusion occurs in the last two mansions, in general. But interestingly there are cases where fusion is delayed post mansion world sojourn.


I'm sorry, but the definition of an ascending mortal is a fused mortal.

Those mortals on the lower mansion worlds who HAVE NOT fused with their Thought Adjusters are called faith-sons.

Okay, so perhaps this is a minor point but it is critical to understand that no matter when or where fusion occurs, it is for ETERNITY. And it is ONLY upon fusion that you can refer to any personality as ASCENDING.

Moreover, Thought Adjusters do not abandon the souls of faith-sons because of sin. It's iniquity that causes soul death and the resultant departure of the Adjuster. Joining a rebellion may be a sin, but it is not necessarily iniquity. Here's the definition of iniquity for convenience:

(1660.4) 148:4.5 Iniquity is the willful, determined, and persistent transgression of the divine law, the Father's will. Iniquity is the measure of the continued rejection of the Father's loving plan of personality survival and the Sons' merciful ministry of salvation.

I cannot recall reading anywhere that all of the un-fused mortals, the faith-sons, of the lower mansion worlds, or any of them for that matter, rejected survival. I cannot recall reading anywhere that any of them are now on the prison worlds either. If you have such a reference, one without inference, please share it.

And, it seems to me that unless the souls of faith-sons are dead, meaning they already annihilated themselves, their Thought Adjusters are still with them regardless of where they are, even on prison worlds. The Thought Adjusters go through all of our vicissitudes with us, including evil and sin.

(1193.1) 108:6.2 No matter what the previous status of the inhabitants of a world, subsequent to the bestowal of a divine Son and after the bestowal of the Spirit of Truth upon all humans, the Adjusters flock to such a world to indwell the minds of all normal will creatures. Following the completion of the mission of a Paradise bestowal Son, these Monitors truly become the “kingdom of heaven within you.” Through the bestowal of the divine gifts the Father makes the closest possible approach to sin and evil, for it is literally true that the Adjuster must coexist in the mortal mind even in the very midst of human unrighteousness. The indwelling Adjusters are particularly tormented by those thoughts which are purely sordid and selfish; they are distressed by irreverence for that which is beautiful and divine, and they are virtually thwarted in their work by many of man’s foolish animal fears and childish anxieties.


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