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katroofjebus, take a look at the below screengrab. The reference is 30:4.1 (340.3)

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katroofjebus wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:
Ascending mortals on the first and second mansion are yet fused with their TA. Fusion occurs in the last two mansions, in general. But interestingly there are cases where fusion is delayed post mansion world sojourn.


I'm sorry, but the definition of an ascending mortal is a fused mortal.

Those mortals on the lower mansion worlds who HAVE NOT fused with their Thought Adjusters are called faith-sons.

Okay, so perhaps this is a minor point but it is critical to understand that no matter when or where fusion occurs, it is for ETERNITY. And it is ONLY upon fusion that you can refer to any personality as ASCENDING.

Moreover, Thought Adjusters do not abandon the souls of faith-sons because of sin. It's iniquity that causes soul death and the resultant departure of the Adjuster. Joining a rebellion may be a sin, but it is not necessarily iniquity. Here's the definition of iniquity for convenience:

(1660.4) 148:4.5 Iniquity is the willful, determined, and persistent transgression of the divine law, the Father's will. Iniquity is the measure of the continued rejection of the Father's loving plan of personality survival and the Sons' merciful ministry of salvation.

I cannot recall reading anywhere that all of the un-fused mortals, the faith-sons, of the lower mansion worlds, or any of them for that matter, rejected survival. I cannot recall reading anywhere that any of them are now on the prison worlds either. If you have such a reference, one without inference, please share it.

And, it seems to me that unless the souls of faith-sons are dead, meaning they already annihilated themselves, their Thought Adjusters are still with them regardless of where they are, even on prison worlds. The Thought Adjusters go through all of our vicissitudes with us, including evil and sin.

(1193.1) 108:6.2 No matter what the previous status of the inhabitants of a world, subsequent to the bestowal of a divine Son and after the bestowal of the Spirit of Truth upon all humans, the Adjusters flock to such a world to indwell the minds of all normal will creatures. Following the completion of the mission of a Paradise bestowal Son, these Monitors truly become the “kingdom of heaven within you.” Through the bestowal of the divine gifts the Father makes the closest possible approach to sin and evil, for it is literally true that the Adjuster must coexist in the mortal mind even in the very midst of human unrighteousness. The indwelling Adjusters are particularly tormented by those thoughts which are purely sordid and selfish; they are distressed by irreverence for that which is beautiful and divine, and they are virtually thwarted in their work by many of man’s foolish animal fears and childish anxieties.

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I says that mortal survivors are denominated ascending pilgrims when accredited for Paradise ascent. It means they have ascendant potential. It's not possible for a mortal to leave the local universe and begin the ascent to Paradise without being fused with one of the Deities, as far as I understand.

This is the other reference to planetary mortals, known as faith-sons:

6. The Faith Sons of God

(447.5) 40:6.1 The mortal races stand as the representatives of the lowest order of intelligent and personal creation. You mortals are divinely beloved, and every one of you may choose to accept the certain destiny of a glorious experience, but you are not yet by nature of the divine order; you are wholly mortal. You will be reckoned as ascending sons the instant fusion takes place, but the status of the mortals of time and space is that of faith sons prior to the event of the final amalgamation of the surviving mortal soul with some type of eternal and immortal spirit.

Here is another reference in regards to fusion as validation for the Paradise ascent.

(449.3) 40:7.5 Fusion with a fragment of the Universal Father is equivalent to a divine validation of eventual Paradise attainment, and such Adjuster-fused mortals are the only class of human beings who all traverse the Havona circuits and find God on Paradise. To the Adjuster-fused mortal the career of universal service is wide open. What dignity of destiny and glory of attainment await every one of you! Do you fully appreciate what has been done for you? Do you comprehend the grandeur of the heights of eternal achievement which are spread out before you? — even you who now trudge on in the lowly path of life through your so-called “vale of tears”?

But to your point, I think the authors sometimes use the word "ascendant" in a more general way. I also think they refer to Son-fused and Spirit-fused mortals as ascending sons in addition to other celestials who enter into the ascension scheme.


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Originally katroofjebus you argued this:

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I then show you this:

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You then reply with this:

katroofjebus wrote:
But to your point, I think the authors sometimes use the word "ascendant" in a more general way. I also think they refer to Son-fused and Spirit-fused mortals as ascending sons in addition to other celestials who enter into the ascension scheme.


So which is it, katroofjebus? Is the term used exclusively for fused mortals or not?

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I think the point I was trying to make with my initial statement has gotten lost due to the confusion over semantics. The reason I brought up the fact that we are called ascending sons only after fusion has to do with those souls on the mansion worlds during the rebellion. Those on the lower mansion worlds who fell were unfused and hence referred to as faith-sons or planetary sons. None of the ascendant citizens of Jerusem fell. And here's my point: it's because ascendant in this case means fused, or ascending sons. Fusion cannot be reversed, so the Thought Adjuster cannot leave.

To your point, the authors sometimes use the word ascending and ascendant in a general way to describe individuals participating in the overall ascension scheme. However, I was referring to the use of the word in regards to a very specific situation we were discussing at the time, and to be precise, the use of the term "ascendant citizenship". I'm aware that this point was completely lost in the curfuffle and I should have tried to bring that point back around for continuity's sake.

I think this is the reference you cited:
(608.6) 53:7.10 The ascending mortals were vulnerable, but they withstood the sophistries of rebellion better than the lower spirits. While many on the lower mansion worlds, those who had not attained final fusion with their Adjusters, fell, it is recorded to the glory of the wisdom of the ascension scheme that not a single member of the Satania ascendant citizenship resident on Jerusem participated in the Lucifer rebellion.

Those ascendant citizens, by definition, are fused citizens. The non-fused mortals who come up through the ascension scheme to Jerusem are given only provisional citizenship. So I think the above reference concerns fused mortals who did not fall, as opposed to the non-fused mortals on the lower mansion worlds just beginning the ascension scheme, who did fall.

But more to the point. I want to stress that Adjusters do not abandon a personality because of sin. Those mortals on the lower mansion worlds who fell would not lose their Adjusters unless their souls died from ongoing iniquity. Such an event would require a judgment procedure prior to annihilation. Moreover, if you have a reference to the fact that these fallen mortals never accepted mercy and are imprisoned somewhere, I'd be happy if you would share it. I cannot recall reading such, but my recall is not perfect. On the other hand, if you're tired of this topic, I'm happy to move on.


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Yes, clarity here is critical. Adjusters do not abandon mortals due to criminal acts or sin. Indeed do they often select mortals with little or no chance of fusion for the experiential gains available. Neither can they predict future behaviors, choices, or outcomes of their hosts.

Last year BB claimed here there were Adjusterless souls roaming about who became controlled by evil spirits in the morontial levels.

The Adjusters leave mortals only upon the death of soul or body or mind or temporarily detach during normal sleep. The death of mind or body is also temporary, until the slumber of survival is over and we (our soul and new body) awaken in Mansonia. The idea that we can lose our TA due to sin and then gain another by repentance is a belief and claim without support in the UB...and Pentecost offers no mortal any particular opportunities in that or any regard of forgiveness or repentance or spiritual progress.

There are no mind invasions by angels or evil spirits or rebels or midwayers and we are not abandoned by our faithful God fragments who are the only being which mau "invade" the mind but even they may not violate our free will which lasts forever, no matter how spiritual we become.

The text is quite clear, specific, and redundant on these facts of reality as presented in the Papers.


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katroofjebus wrote:
I think this is the reference you cited:
(608.6) 53:7.10 The ascending mortals were vulnerable, but they withstood the sophistries of rebellion better than the lower spirits. While many on the lower mansion worlds, those who had not attained final fusion with their Adjusters, fell, it is recorded to the glory of the wisdom of the ascension scheme that not a single member of the Satania ascendant citizenship resident on Jerusem participated in the Lucifer rebellion.

Those ascendant citizens, by definition, are fused citizens. The non-fused mortals who come up through the ascension scheme to Jerusem are given only provisional citizenship. So I think the above reference concerns fused mortals who did not fall, as opposed to the non-fused mortals on the lower mansion worlds just beginning the ascension scheme, who did fall.

But more to the point. I want to stress that Adjusters do not abandon a personality because of sin. Those mortals on the lower mansion worlds who fell would not lose their Adjusters unless their souls died from ongoing iniquity. Such an event would require a judgment procedure prior to annihilation. Moreover, if you have a reference to the fact that these fallen mortals never accepted mercy and are imprisoned somewhere, I'd be happy if you would share it. I cannot recall reading such, but my recall is not perfect. On the other hand, if you're tired of this topic, I'm happy to move on.


I was referring to this one:

Quote:
67:4.7 (758.5) The vast majority of all human and superhuman beings who were victims of the Lucifer rebellion on Jerusem and the various misled planets have long since heartily repented of their folly; and we truly believe that all such sincere penitents will in some manner be rehabilitated and restored to some phase of universe service when the Ancients of Days finally complete the adjudication of the affairs of the Satania rebellion, which they have so recently begun.


Yea, I think we can move on now.

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Glad to...with the fact that your premise and claims of beliefs here clearly contradict the UB.

fanofVan wrote:
Yes, clarity here is critical. Adjusters do not abandon mortals due to criminal acts or sin. Indeed do they often select mortals with little or no chance of fusion for the experiential gains available. Neither can they predict future behaviors, choices, or outcomes of their hosts.

Last year BB claimed here there were Adjusterless souls roaming about who became controlled by evil spirits in the morontial levels.

The Adjusters leave mortals only upon the death of soul or body or mind or temporarily detach during normal sleep. The death of mind or body is also temporary, until the slumber of survival is over and we (our soul and new body) awaken in Mansonia. The idea that we can lose our TA due to sin and then gain another by repentance is a belief and claim without support in the UB...and Pentecost offers no mortal any particular opportunities in that or any regard of forgiveness or repentance or spiritual progress.

There are no mind invasions by angels or evil spirits or rebels or midwayers and we are not abandoned by our faithful God fragments who are the only being which mau "invade" the mind but even they may not violate our free will which lasts forever, no matter how spiritual we become.

The text is quite clear, specific, and redundant on these facts of reality as presented in the Papers.


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