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Riktare wrote:
One possible (likely?) meaning of "relative" free will is that a less developed person may be largely at the mercy of environmental, electro-chemical and genetic influences when making a decision. The range of possible things to consider in making a choice is very much curtailed. They are part robot, in effect...


Limited by possible choices? I'd agree. It's also about the radial limits of repercussions and consequences attendant to all free will choices.


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This reference is perfectly illustrating the transforming of mortal free will into the will of God. Mortal free will has "temporal significance" which is what I have been arguing. We continue to submit our will to God until we reach the shores of Paradise and become Finaliters. It is then we have fully submitted our will over to the divine. Our will is now "divine will."


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111:5.5 (1221.6) Such a creature choice is not a surrender of will. It is a consecration of will, an expansion of will, a glorification of will, a perfecting of will; and such choosing raises the creature will from the level of temporal significance to that higher estate wherein the personality of the creature son communes with the personality of the spirit Father.

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Makalu wrote:
Agon D. Onter wrote:
Oh, so you're talking traditional, institutional religion as it is experienced by humans. That, I can relate to. It's just you wrote only "Humans tend to feel ...." Of course, not all humans have experienced institutional religion. Many, many humans experience God and their worship of Him on their own terms and in their own way.


of course humans tend to first and mostly encounter concepts about god etc. in the context of an institutional religion.


Huh? No. Not true. If you mean the anthropomorphized version of God that I was taught in Sunday school (long, white beard, usually sitting on a cloud, pointing a finger menacingly), sure. But the idea of God in terms of a higher power, an omnipotent force for good, a guiding light that exists inside all of us, an unseen friend on whom we can call for help or guidance, then not at all.

Plenty of humans in third world countries have no institutional religion. My own kids have been raised, right here in North America, without exposure to institutional religion. They know about God; they know that is a concept that exists.


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Does relative free will apply to the mansion world?


Riktare wrote:
One possible (likely?) meaning of "relative" free will is that a less developed person may be largely at the mercy of environmental, electro-chemical and genetic influences when making a decision. The range of possible things to consider in making a choice is very much curtailed. They are part robot, in effect...

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Agon D. Onter wrote:

Huh? No. Not true. If you mean the anthropomorphized version of God that I was taught in Sunday school (long, white beard, usually sitting on a cloud, pointing a finger menacingly), sure. But the idea of God in terms of a higher power, an omnipotent force for good, a guiding light that exists inside all of us, an unseen friend on whom we can call for help or guidance, then not at all.

Plenty of humans in third world countries have no institutional religion. My own kids have been raised, right here in North America, without exposure to institutional religion. They know about God; they know that is a concept that exists.


uh the majority of humans in third world countries have an institutional religion. hagd


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brooklyn_born wrote:
Does relative free will apply to the mansion world?




this probably doesnt quite answer that but is important i think nonetheless

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The possibility of cosmic self-destruction cannot be avoided if the evolving personality is to be truly free in the exercise of finite will.

118:7.8 (1301.5) Therefore is there increased safety in narrowing the limits of personality choice throughout the lower levels of existence. Choice becomes increasingly liberated as the universes are ascended; choice eventually approximates divine freedom when the ascending personality achieves divinity of status, supremacy of consecration to the purposes of the universe, completion of cosmic-wisdom attainment, and finality of creature identification with the will and the way of God.


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Ah! so again, the mortal free will approximates divine freedom when the mortal free will is submitted or consecrated to the will of the deities or identifies with the will of the Gods.

Makalu wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:
Does relative free will apply to the mansion world?




this probably doesnt quite answer that but is important i think nonetheless

Quote:
The possibility of cosmic self-destruction cannot be avoided if the evolving personality is to be truly free in the exercise of finite will.

118:7.8 (1301.5) Therefore is there increased safety in narrowing the limits of personality choice throughout the lower levels of existence. Choice becomes increasingly liberated as the universes are ascended; choice eventually approximates divine freedom when the ascending personality achieves divinity of status, supremacy of consecration to the purposes of the universe, completion of cosmic-wisdom attainment, and finality of creature identification with the will and the way of God.

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brooklyn_born wrote:
Does relative free will apply to the mansion world?


I think it would. In its infinite wisdom and perspective the adjuster will always be far ahead of a developing creature, always sowing morontial or spiritual seeds that the finite mind has yet to encounter and recognize. I suspect that happens even after fusion but I guess we need some references to consider if there are some.


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All personalities have free will. All the time. Without exception.


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fanofVan wrote:
All personalities have free will. All the time. Without exception.


Could you provide a reference that illustrates mortal free will on Paradise?

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brooklyn_born wrote:
fanofVan wrote:
All personalities have free will. All the time. Without exception.


Could you provide a reference that illustrates mortal free will on Paradise?


Sure! Free will never ends for experiential beings! Do perfect beings have free will? They have personality don't they? The purpose, or one purpose of free will is God's will that all personality expressions are unique and "personal" according to the unique experience of each personality. This uniqueness and personal nature of experience and expression is the source of all potential. No free will, no potential. Outcomes are not predetermined, even perfect or perfected or perfecting outcomes are not predetermined...all outcomes are subject to free will choices which is the original cause of all potentials.

30:4.28 (343.3) The first act of your Havona career will be to recognize and thank your transport seconaphim for the long and safe journey. Then you are presented to those beings who will sponsor your early Havona activities. Next you go to register your arrival and prepare your message of thanksgiving and adoration for dispatch to the Creator Son of your local universe, the universe Father who made possible your sonship career. This concludes the formalities of the Havona arrival; whereupon you are accorded a long period of leisure for free observation, and this affords opportunity for looking up your friends, fellows, and associates of the long ascension experience. You may also consult the broadcasts to ascertain who of your fellow pilgrims have departed for Havona since the time of your leaving Uversa.

31:1.1 (346.2) Many of the Havona natives who serve as teachers in the pilgrim-training schools of the central universe become greatly attached to the ascending mortals and still more intrigued with the future work and destiny of the Corps of Mortal Finaliters. On Paradise there is maintained, at the administrative headquarters of the corps, a registry for Havona volunteers presided over by the associate of Grandfanda. Today, you will find millions upon millions of Havona natives upon this waiting list. These perfect beings of direct and divine creation are of great assistance to the Mortal Corps of Finality, and they will undoubtedly be of even greater service in the far-distant future. They provide the viewpoint of one born in perfection and divine repleteness. The finaliters thus embrace both phases of experiential existence—perfect and perfected.

31:1.2 (346.3) Havona natives must achieve certain experiential developments in liaison with evolutionary beings which will create reception capacity for the bestowal of a fragment of the spirit of the Universal Father. The Mortal Finaliter Corps has as permanent members only such beings as have been fused with the spirit of the First Source and Center, or who, like the Gravity Messengers, innately embody this spirit of God the Father.


Last edited by fanofVan on Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:49 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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I will ask again, can you produce a reference that tells us mortal free will persists on Paradise? I am not looking for you to interpret for me what mortal free will to you is. I just want a reference that directly states it. Thanks.

fanofVan wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:
fanofVan wrote:
All personalities have free will. All the time. Without exception.


Could you provide a reference that illustrates mortal free will on Paradise?


Sure! Free will never ends for experiential beings! Do perfect beings have free will? They have personality don't they? The purpose, or one purpose of free will is God's will that all personality expressions are unique and "personal" according to the unique experience of each personality. This uniqueness and personal nature of experience and expression is the source of all potential. No free will, no potential. Outcomes are not predetermined, even perfect or perfected or perfecting outcomes are not predetermined...all outcomes are subject to free will choices which is the original cause of all potentials.

30:4.28 (343.3) The first act of your Havona career will be to recognize and thank your transport seconaphim for the long and safe journey. Then you are presented to those beings who will sponsor your early Havona activities. Next you go to register your arrival and prepare your message of thanksgiving and adoration for dispatch to the Creator Son of your local universe, the universe Father who made possible your sonship career. This concludes the formalities of the Havona arrival; whereupon you are accorded a long period of leisure for free observation, and this affords opportunity for looking up your friends, fellows, and associates of the long ascension experience. You may also consult the broadcasts to ascertain who of your fellow pilgrims have departed for Havona since the time of your leaving Uversa.

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Asked and answered!! :roll: Mortal, morontial, and spirit!! All free will persists...eternally!


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fanofVan wrote:
Asked and answered!! :roll: Mortal, morontial, and spirit!! All free will persists...eternally!


I will assume you have no reference since you did not produce one.

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Posted two...lots more available.

:biggrin:


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