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brooklyn_born wrote:
I am thinking human material mind does not need a spiritual agent to function.


That's right. It only needs the adjutant mind ministry. But I would add the caveat that depending on how the the word "human" is used. It only takes six adjutants to qualify as a human, but it takes all seven adjutants united in function to become a bona fide human. When all seven adjutants are unitedly functioning under the control of the seventh adjutant, the spirit of wisdom, then that person has a soul and the Holy Spirit, who qualifies as a spiritual agent.


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What is funny is our definition of what constitutes a human being has changed over the past few decades. So we are not even consistent with the definition. In the early 20th century when TUB was written, Africans were not considered human. They were categorized as "subhuman" which put them on par with animals like Spornagia, only having five adjutants executing their function.

I am toying with the idea of creating a thread on what celestials consider normal minded humans. Remember, they use terms contemporaneous to the time the revelation was written and published, and enlarged the meaning of those concepts. What we consider a normal minded human more than likely means something totally different to the celestials.


katroofjebus wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:
I am thinking human material mind does not need a spiritual agent to function.


That's right. It only needs the adjutant mind ministry. But I would add the caveat that depending on how the the word "human" is used. It only takes six adjutants to qualify as a human, but it takes all seven adjutants united in function to become a bona fide human. When all seven adjutants are unitedly functioning under the control of the seventh adjutant, the spirit of wisdom, then that person has a soul and the Holy Spirit, who qualifies as a spiritual agent.

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Besides the KKK and other hate/fear based racists, WHO considered Africans subhuman? Or had no souls?

Not the UB. What an odd claim and generalization.

Historical documentation please.


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I believe you are older than me, foV, so I venture to say you come out of the Jim Crow era (its last throes was during Civil Rights era). I think it is fair to say racism was institutionalized and acceptable socially in the US at one point. Am I accusing specific individuals of holding the sentiment Africans are subhuman? No. But non Africans who lived during that period were part and parcel of a society that bolstered a system which reinforced the notion of the inferiority of Africans. I cited one historical evidence (Jim Crow). Also we've already dealt with the racialist papers in TUB, so I am not going to rehash that topic. You are free to peruse the BBS' archives to search that thread. I am sure it still exists.

Honestly, I don't want to delve into this issue as it will detract from the actual topic. I only wanted to make a point on the evolution of definitions with that statement.



fanofVan wrote:
Besides the KKK and other hate/fear based racists, WHO considered Africans subhuman? Or had no souls?

Not the UB. What an odd claim and generalization.

Historical documentation please.

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You said Africans were "categorized" and I asked by whom orher than pure racists? The answer is NO ONE ELSE.

You don't want to discuss what you publicly post as an intentional flaming and preposterous attention seeking headline?! Then don't post it to begin with.

:roll:


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Apologies...this post was for another topic and my smart phone and I got it posted on the wrong topic. Out of context here. Geezer moment... :roll:


Last edited by fanofVan on Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:45 am +0000, edited 3 times in total.

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Oh really? in the early 20th century America and prior Africans were not viewed as human or equal to whites. In fact they were depicted as animals. I said you are older than me so you should know in American households, the following was projected through TVs into the minds of the average White American kid. Here are the images. I am sure you are not going to deny this.

[redacted]

And this is not just on the social level. Scientific racism also existed to bolster the social view of Africans in the US.



fanofVan wrote:
You said Africans were "categorized" and I asked by whom orher than pure racists? The answer is NO ONE ELSE.

You don't want to discuss what you publicly post as an intentional flaming and preposterous attention seeking headline?! Then don't post it to begin with.

:roll:

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Last edited by brooklyn_born on Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:39 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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brooklyn_born wrote:
What is funny is our definition of what constitutes a human being has changed over the past few decades. So we are not even consistent with the definition. In the early 20th century when TUB was written, Africans were not considered human. They were categorized as "subhuman" which put them on par with animals like Spornagia, only having five adjutants executing their function.


I was referring to the Urantia Book definition of human and bona fide human. Society's definition is subject to change because the mores change. Morality is a human (superanimal) phenomenon which is meant to evolve and change. Reference:

(2096.1) 196:3.25 The moral nature is superanimal but subspiritual. Morality is equivalent to the recognition of duty, the realization of the existence of right and wrong. The moral zone intervenes between the animal and the human types of mind as morontia functions between the material and the spiritual spheres of personality attainment.

(1128.2) 102:8.6 While personal religion precedes the evolution of human morals, it is regretfully recorded that institutional religion has invariably lagged behind the slowly changing mores of the human races.

Humans are defined as those beings where the spirit of worship has made effective contact thus separating them from the lower animals. Reference:

(402.8 )36:5.11 6. The spirit of worship - the religious impulse, the first differential urge separating mind creatures into the two basic classes of mortal existence. The spirit of worship forever distinguishes the animal of its association from the soulless creatures of mind endowment. Worship is the badge of spiritual-ascension candidacy.

Bona fide humans have souls. During our current post-Pentecost age souls are indwelt by Thought Adjusters. Prior to Pentecost a bona fide human had the capacity for indwelling, a soul, but needed to accomplish additional requirements in order for it to happen. Reference:

(227.6) 20:5.3 Some order of Paradise Son must be bestowed upon each mortal-inhabited world in order to make it possible for Thought Adjusters to indwell the minds of all normal human beings on that sphere, for the Adjusters do not come to all bona fide human beings until the Spirit of Truth has been poured out upon all flesh; and the sending of the Spirit of Truth is dependent upon the return to universe headquarters of a Paradise Son who has successfully executed a mission of mortal bestowal upon an evolving world.


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I already explained the quote as I see it. Pentecost happens every year. Jesus used that Holiday as a springboard to expand the consciousness of people and teach that they can repent and receive SoT. It is not an automatic event. You are no guaranteed to become the faith sons of God without putting an effort to express your faith in God. The two highest adjutants must be activated to begin the work of salvation. That is the symbol behind the annual Holiday. It is to remind us we can come to repentance anytime every year for all generations.

fanofVan wrote:
BB...here is what you said and claimed:

"Pentecost is celebrated 50 days after Passover. This occurs every year. Every year an unspiritual person has opportunity to get encircuited and receive a TA. This is my position..."

It is the position of the UB that we are forgiven before we ask for forgiveness...and may ask at any moment...not every "year". And the only way to be abandoned by a TA is self errasure by the knowing and final rejection of God's mercy. This is unrelated I think to social criminality and a very unlikely and uncommon human capability in this brief life. Does the UB say a murderer does not or even may not survive?

Since the Revelation says we received the TA by age 6 and do not commit social crimes until later in life, I wonder how someone loses their lifetime pilot and companion so that they must later receive a new one? Where is that process and cause for the loss of a TA found in the UB?

Your claims here presume much which contradicts the Revelation....which clearly states the TA is our steadfast and loving, thick and thin companion. And nowhere does the UB describe or endorse "mortal sin" or unforgivable iniquity that is ineligible for the mercy credits. Humans do not determine such things...especially not Catholic humans...hahaha.

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Okay. What is a "bona-fide" human and what is a human? And are all humans bona-fide?

katroofjebus wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:
What is funny is our definition of what constitutes a human being has changed over the past few decades. So we are not even consistent with the definition. In the early 20th century when TUB was written, Africans were not considered human. They were categorized as "subhuman" which put them on par with animals like Spornagia, only having five adjutants executing their function.


I was referring to the Urantia Book definition of human and bona fide human. Society's definition is subject to change because the mores change. Morality is a human (superanimal) phenomenon which is meant to evolve and change. Reference:

(2096.1) 196:3.25 The moral nature is superanimal but subspiritual. Morality is equivalent to the recognition of duty, the realization of the existence of right and wrong. The moral zone intervenes between the animal and the human types of mind as morontia functions between the material and the spiritual spheres of personality attainment.

(1128.2) 102:8.6 While personal religion precedes the evolution of human morals, it is regretfully recorded that institutional religion has invariably lagged behind the slowly changing mores of the human races.

Humans are defined as those beings where the spirit of worship has made effective contact thus separating them from the lower animals. Reference:

(402.8 )36:5.11 6. The spirit of worship - the religious impulse, the first differential urge separating mind creatures into the two basic classes of mortal existence. The spirit of worship forever distinguishes the animal of its association from the soulless creatures of mind endowment. Worship is the badge of spiritual-ascension candidacy.

Bona fide humans have souls. During our current post-Pentecost age souls are indwelt by Thought Adjusters. Prior to Pentecost a bona fide human had the capacity for indwelling, a soul, but needed to accomplish additional requirements in order for it to happen. Reference:

(227.6) 20:5.3 Some order of Paradise Son must be bestowed upon each mortal-inhabited world in order to make it possible for Thought Adjusters to indwell the minds of all normal human beings on that sphere, for the Adjusters do not come to all bona fide human beings until the Spirit of Truth has been poured out upon all flesh; and the sending of the Spirit of Truth is dependent upon the return to universe headquarters of a Paradise Son who has successfully executed a mission of mortal bestowal upon an evolving world.

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brooklyn_born wrote:
Okay. What is a "bona-fide" human and what is a human? And are all humans bona-fide?


I believe I already explained that in my last post along with associated references. Perhaps you missed it?


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Let me ask it this way, what is the difference between a human and bona-fide human?


katroofjebus wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:
Okay. What is a "bona-fide" human and what is a human? And are all humans bona-fide?


I believe I already explained that in my last post along with associated references. Perhaps you missed it?

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brooklyn_born wrote:
Let me ask it this way, what is the difference between a human and bona-fide human?


katroofjebus wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:
Okay. What is a "bona-fide" human and what is a human? And are all humans bona-fide?


I believe I already explained that in my last post along with associated references. Perhaps you missed it?


I already posted the answer to that question. Did you read it?

katroofjebus wrote:
Humans are defined as those beings where the spirit of worship has made effective contact thus separating them from the lower animals. Reference:

(402.8 )36:5.11 6. The spirit of worship - the religious impulse, the first differential urge separating mind creatures into the two basic classes of mortal existence. The spirit of worship forever distinguishes the animal of its association from the soulless creatures of mind endowment. Worship is the badge of spiritual-ascension candidacy.

Bona fide humans have souls. During our current post-Pentecost age souls are indwelt by Thought Adjusters. Prior to Pentecost a bona fide human had the capacity for indwelling, a soul, but needed to accomplish additional requirements in order for it to happen. Reference:

(227.6) 20:5.3 Some order of Paradise Son must be bestowed upon each mortal-inhabited world in order to make it possible for Thought Adjusters to indwell the minds of all normal human beings on that sphere, for the Adjusters do not come to all bona fide human beings until the Spirit of Truth has been poured out upon all flesh; and the sending of the Spirit of Truth is dependent upon the return to universe headquarters of a Paradise Son who has successfully executed a mission of mortal bestowal upon an evolving world.


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I read your initial response but was still confused on the difference between the two. I did not think there was a difference. So, a human has not grown a soul but when he or she does they are a bona-fide human. Am I interpreting what you're saying correctly?


katroofjebus wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:
Let me ask it this way, what is the difference between a human and bona-fide human?


katroofjebus wrote:
I already posted the answer to that question. Did you read it?

Humans are defined as those beings where the spirit of worship has made effective contact thus separating them from the lower animals. Reference:

(402.8 )36:5.11 6. The spirit of worship - the religious impulse, the first differential urge separating mind creatures into the two basic classes of mortal existence. The spirit of worship forever distinguishes the animal of its association from the soulless creatures of mind endowment. Worship is the badge of spiritual-ascension candidacy.

Bona fide humans have souls. During our current post-Pentecost age souls are indwelt by Thought Adjusters. Prior to Pentecost a bona fide human had the capacity for indwelling, a soul, but needed to accomplish additional requirements in order for it to happen. Reference:

(227.6) 20:5.3 Some order of Paradise Son must be bestowed upon each mortal-inhabited world in order to make it possible for Thought Adjusters to indwell the minds of all normal human beings on that sphere, for the Adjusters do not come to all bona fide human beings until the Spirit of Truth has been poured out upon all flesh; and the sending of the Spirit of Truth is dependent upon the return to universe headquarters of a Paradise Son who has successfully executed a mission of mortal bestowal upon an evolving world.

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brooklyn_born wrote:
I read your initial response but was still confused on the difference between the two. I did not think there was a difference. So, a human has not grown a soul but when he or she does they are a bona-fide human. Am I interpreting what you're saying correctly?


Yes. Humans have crossed the threshold from animal existence because they have contact with the sixth adjutant of worship. But they do not become recognized by the universe as bona fide humans until they make their first moral decision indicating that they not only have capacity for survival but are in the process of actually choosing survival. That's the impetus for the soul, the vehicle for eternal survival, a cosmic citizen.


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