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maryjo606 wrote:
How does this reflect upon the UB and its readership? I don't know what you mean...I guess if someone wants to think of morontia as being "moronic," that may be a choice to make. But it sure is not my choice. I wanna be like Van...and I think we all can strive towards that kind of reality right here and now.


Amen to that! All we have to do is become more soul-conscious and begin to use our inherent soul powers. Everyone here is, at minimum, partially soul-conscious. I think full soul consciousness is a worthy goal. I think that's what Van did in attaining the highest experiential "level of personality realization", which is a description of the first psychic circle. Interesting that he did that without an Adjuster. Must have been the Holy Spirit helping his soul get there.

(1219.3) 111:3.4 Both the human mind and the divine Adjuster are conscious of the presence and differential nature of the evolving soul — the Adjuster fully, the mind partially.

(1097:7) 100:4.3 But the great problem of religious living consists in the task of unifying the soul powers of the personality by the dominance of LOVE.

There's a lot "more-on-ya" than you realize.


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no sophist wrote:
Ah - you consider yourself less than a moron and will advance to the status of full blown moron on a Morontia world.
Interesting interpretation but I can’t agree


Not at all. First I never conferred that term on my persons. This is the Celestials coining these terms , it is from their perspective how they view us on the morontia planes. While alive we are still in material form, we are not morontial beings until we resurrect into those bodies after death.

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maryjo606 wrote:
I find it such an odd claim. Mind is universal and its source is the same in all 3 levels of reality and that source is Deity and perfect. But BB claims the mid-mind is moronic. What's your opinion? How does this opinion reflect upon the UB and its readership do you think? Why might someone proclaim such a belief and opinion? Hmmmmm.....


Because the mind papers are founded on psychology principles of the late 19th to early 20th century. We cannot ignore that the Celestials used many concepts from psychology that they enlarged. All of these new terms are not newly constructed words, per se. In fact, no where in the papers do the Celestials claim to create new words, at least, not that I am aware of. Instead they tell us they create new terms to capture advanced truth. We can track down their origin with the understanding that Latin, Greek, and Hebrew are three languages which influenced those terms; the mind papers were influenced by Greek and Latin as the field of psychology is built upon the same.

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As for this moronic idea...it has always been interesting to me why the revelators chose such a word with such a root as "moron." I do not think they were likening us to morons, as we have come to understand that term.


Agreed. It is the same way I view the term subnormal. This is a term that fell out of use because of its disparaging and demeaning implication. Yet we find it in the papers. Celestials use it but not within the same context.

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The word morontia can refer to spirit, to form, and to mind. And the soul is a morontia creation that is potentially immortal. So, I don't feel there is any significant connection to those two ideas. One is perjorative and the other is pretty grand, in my opinion. I trust that the revelators do not want to belittle us, but to ennoble us through giving us this information. To me, the morontia reality is a bridge from matter to spirit - from purely human values to superhuman values.


I agree in general. It is like a glass that is poured half way up the glass. A pessimist sees it half empty, an optimist sees it half full, celestials can use the concept glass filled with water, as they have with others, from a neutralist point of view, and just state the fact it is half measured. Human experience interprets it as half full or half empty (celestials can also reflect subjectively their experience. They are not exempt)

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Well, because "moron" was popularized by Matt Groening, through his Futurama character "Hubert Farnsworth". That is the context I believe most people familiar with usage. In many intellectual and yes scientific communities, a pop erudition formed to tease that notion, "being a bunch of morons", and the unceasing aggravation this gave to such an eccentric tinkerer. Still, my brother thinks "being a moron isn't cool", agreeing with Sarah Silverman haha that God doesn't exist. But yeah I worry if one refuses to identify as a child or as a moron, hard to see that relationship one may have existentially with the Universal Father.

Such programs have an enormous sway in public opinion and within the collective consciousness. I believe that by the end of the twentieth century A.D. many of the teaching from the UB were used for economic gain, often at the expense of the theological or philosophical currency of such concepts. Everyone who watched that show can remember Hubert Farnsworth calling his team morons.

Morons cannot avoid the same challenges as JEsus and Enoch both faced throughin their postmortal ascencion. The issue is not the question of doom, the fact that man can choose to extinquish his own eternal flame. Rather, the question is whether there is persistence, which lead to real perseverence. In the fifth epoch of the ages of life and light, mortals are said to evaporate in the morontial temples, a prospect that almost precludes finalitor status. IF you think on agon-donters, then you face the tasks of this world: you take on this world, so that this world's questionable status is concluded and the controversy surrounding God's love for mortal creatures of Urantia is ended. And hopefully, in a much wiser way because future generations should approach the duties that follow Sonship, as in through the morontial spirit of man, with unceasing embrace and everexpanding potentials. The goal is not to languish or linger in the morontial spheres of Eden for too long, but to gain one's spirit status as expediently as possible: that is the diploma received from Michael and the Divine Minister of Salvington to truly enter into the life of the grand universe.

I have been thinking about this triodity that might be relevent: the Eternal Son, the Local Creator Son, and man (man, the human individual). With this relationship, person can manage to discern how the Patterns of Life in the Central Creation, were first provided by the Eternal Son, before the Local Creator Son "took the pattern for Eve & Adam out of the existential universe", and how from this material pattern, the architecture of the form of man, is please admit it, enough to ignite the eternal flame of the individuating soul.

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Holy Moly!!!

This represents study of the UB? :roll: :cry:


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I think that shows like Star Trek had writers who were trying to introduce concepts from the Urantia Book, and Futurama was an adaptation, a cultural derivative of a cultural derivative. Futurama is the secular reciprocation of the first attempts to portray some of the cultural idaeologies found in the passages. The sarcasm, the intellectual recalcitrance against the notion of being a moron, as in the comparison of one's self unto others, comes into play because the affirmations and allusions that originally appeared in Star Trek, a little too bombastic, overly enthusiastic, and yes too "dorky", and hence easy to make fun of.

Then you have shows like "Star Gate", a vision of men entering through portals into progressively more advanced worlds, and "Sliders", there the worlds are just random, popular scenarios maybe, and kind of stupid. Of course the cultural inundations from tUB not bound to science fiction, but as a genre sci-fi is most amenable to incorporate theoretical concepts.

The sarcasm can lead to emotional aversion, when delivered from comedians to audiences; this is entirely relevent because it means that people still have compunction about the identity of being a moron, or child, in relationship to God the Supreme or the Universal Father. There have been so many jokes which end in the punchline ", ya moron" haha but those can lead persons in society against the right direction.

This is relevent with tUB because people would be more likely to consider the truth of tUB in cultures/societies that embrace the psychological reality, the truth of archetypal identities such as the half-man half-angel "Moroni", defuse the sarcastic attitudes that creep up sociologically, and the notion that an adult is "too sophisticated to worship God...".

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The sarcasm can lead to emotional aversion, when delivered from comedians to audiences; this is entirely relevent because it means that people still have compunction about the identity of being a moron, or child, in relationship to God the Supreme or the Universal Father. There have been so many jokes which end in the punchline ", ya moron" haha but those can lead persons in society against the right direction.


Of course people have compunctions about being called a moron. It is a very unflattering term. And because it is, I suggest we stop talking about it as if it was something the revelators intended. When we study the term morontia, there is nothing in the teachings about that word or that concept that indicates a moronic state of being as we now understand that word. Nothing.

Regardless of how one wants to parse the word, it will never mean in The Urantia Book what it has come to be commonly understood in our modern society. And it is terribly ignoble and insulting to describe a child of God as a moron, in my opinion. It is not, nor will it ever be, an accurate description of sonship with God. And I think most people here on this Forum - and Urantia Book readers in general - will agree with me.

So, enough already, SEla_Kelly...any more posts like this one will be deleted. You are entitled to your opinion, but now that we all know it, let's drop it. I don't think you'll find harmony or agreement, no matter how hard you try. And I for one, am tired of it. With so much uplifting material in the revelation, homing in on this semantic exercise is beneath us all.

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Thanks...and I agree....but this is BB's topic and claim.


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Well, BB...what say you? Can we move on?


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maryjo606 wrote:
Well, BB...what say you? Can we move on?


Yes

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brooklyn_born wrote:
maryjo606 wrote:
I find it such an odd claim. Mind is universal and its source is the same in all 3 levels of reality and that source is Deity and perfect. But BB claims the mid-mind is moronic. What's your opinion? How does this opinion reflect upon the UB and its readership do you think? Why might someone proclaim such a belief and opinion? Hmmmmm.....


Because the mind papers are founded on psychology principles of the late 19th to early 20th century. We cannot ignore that the Celestials used many concepts from psychology that they enlarged. All of these new terms are not newly constructed words, per se. In fact, no where in the papers do the Celestials claim to create new words, at least, not that I am aware of. Instead they tell us they create new terms to capture advanced truth. We can track down their origin with the understanding that Latin, Greek, and Hebrew are three languages which influenced those terms; the mind papers were influenced by Greek and Latin as the field of psychology is built upon the same.

Quote:
As for this moronic idea...it has always been interesting to me why the revelators chose such a word with such a root as "moron." I do not think they were likening us to morons, as we have come to understand that term.


Agreed. It is the same way I view the term subnormal. This is a term that fell out of use because of its disparaging and demeaning implication. Yet we find it in the papers. Celestials use it but not within the same context.

Quote:
The word morontia can refer to spirit, to form, and to mind. And the soul is a morontia creation that is potentially immortal. So, I don't feel there is any significant connection to those two ideas. One is perjorative and the other is pretty grand, in my opinion. I trust that the revelators do not want to belittle us, but to ennoble us through giving us this information. To me, the morontia reality is a bridge from matter to spirit - from purely human values to superhuman values.


I agree in general. It is like a glass that is poured half way up the glass. A pessimist sees it half empty, an optimist sees it half full, celestials can use the concept glass filled with water, as they have with others, from a neutralist point of view, and just state the fact it is half measured. Human experience interprets it as half full or half empty (celestials can also reflect subjectively their experience. They are not exempt)


Another bold declaration that is false and unsupported. The "mind papers" are which ones? And how, exactly, are they founded on 19th and 20th century psychiatry?


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BTW...this quote is mis-attributed. I did not write it; I was responding to it. Not that it matters a lot, maybe, but just sayin...

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brooklyn_born wrote:
maryjo606 wrote:
I find it such an odd claim. Mind is universal and its source is the same in all 3 levels of reality and that source is Deity and perfect. But BB claims the mid-mind is moronic. What's your opinion? How does this opinion reflect upon the UB and its readership do you think? Why might someone proclaim such a belief and opinion? Hmmmmm.....


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maryjo606 wrote:
BTW...this quote is mis-attributed. I did not write it; I was responding to it. Not that it matters a lot, maybe, but just sayin...

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brooklyn_born wrote:
maryjo606 wrote:
I find it such an odd claim. Mind is universal and its source is the same in all 3 levels of reality and that source is Deity and perfect. But BB claims the mid-mind is moronic. What's your opinion? How does this opinion reflect upon the UB and its readership do you think? Why might someone proclaim such a belief and opinion? Hmmmmm.....


Yes...you were responding to me and my post which included this. I found your response quite vague but you finally clarified that you do disagree with BB's claim that morontia mind is moronic.

Now I want him to support this repeated claim about the authors and the source of the mind papers. Another insinuating claim of his, challenging the originality, truth, meaning, purpose, and the value of the Revelation ...unfortunately typical and predictable. Perpetual pessimism?? Skepticism and cynicism?

Mind control, lost free will, mind invasion, soul possession by evil spirits, numerology, TA abandonment, the God Fragment as mind fragmentation and human scizophrenia, rebels still on earth, rogue angels invading minds, etc. BB's topics and claims speak for themselves. All of these ideas, repeated over and over and over again results in appearing more than a little paranoid or intended to sow seeds of doubt in the UB ...or both.

Thankfully the posting of such concepts and beliefs helps the students here to compare and contrast such ideas and claims and beliefs with the UB itself to discover the actual teachings so frequently contradicted. So I am grateful and we are blessed by BB's many questions and claims here. Perhaps he might even grow in his understanding of and appreciation for this gift we share and study here as he helps us do the same.

No doubt he delivers many opportunities for our mutually beneficial study. May we take full advantage of that.

Bradly. 8)

The topic of "mind" is so extensive and exhaustive in the UB that only 12 Papers of the first 121 do not include information and instruction (described over 1500 times in 109 Papers of the first 121 Papers with more in Part IV).

BB's claims regarding the presentation of "mind" in the UB to be merely some restatement or regurgitation of early-modern psychiatry is one of the most ludicrous claims ever posted here at TB. The source of mind and the definition of mind and the inherent nature of mind and the power of mind and the connection of mind to matter and to spirit and the destiny of mind are all so uniquely described and defined in the UB compared to any and all other human concepts, theories, knowledge, or philosophies related to mind EVER conceived or written of, as to present a profoundly important, illuminating, inspiring, and revealing view of the reality of mind in the universe.


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