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SEla_Kelly wrote:
:? I still do not understand why you think that anxiety can be annihilated avoided or absolved. I need to insist that it is necessary and useful in understanding work and psychological issues. Anxiety cannot be removed without doing things to make your life better each day. This is important especially when you consider that my nature is not the will of God. [UB 14:4.13; 14:6.13] Looking forward to the morontial challenges, is postponing the challenges you are face now today.

Assurance or faith might be the end or the goal, but working with anxiety: confronting what is in your mind that provokes such aversion, is the means to obtain a well-rounded and mature personality, from a human experiencial approach.

26:5.5 Time is of little consequence on the Havona circles. In a limited manner it enters into the possibilities of advancement, but achievement is the final and supreme test. The very moment your superaphic associate deems you to be competent to pass inward to the next circle, you will be taken before the twelve adjutants of the seventh Circuit Spirit. Here you will be required to pass the tests of the circle determined by the superuniverse of your origin and by the system of your nativity. The divinity attainment of this circle takes place on the pilot world and consists in the spiritual recognition and realization of the Master Spirit of the ascending pilgrim's superuniverse.
I have always tried to work to overcome anxiety in myself and others. Don't try to escape from anxiety: embrace the problems you find each day and solve them, and after you can gain assurance, when the pain and anxiety has been repaired. It sounds popular to think that you have already gained the ultimate faith assurance of reality, but in my view it is better to embrace uncertainty, so as to prepare your mind for even greater potentials in the central universe, and as a post-Salvington spirit.


Changing your residence from Divinington to Ascendington sounds like a lot of work. [UB 112:7.12]


I hope you might take the time to read the many quotes I posted on the matter and study the links about assurance as well. I do not think "that anxiety can be annihilated avoided or absolved."


I know it can be. Many people have learned how immature and counter productive anxiety is. Many get counseling and others even take medication. But the reduction of anxiety is important and well known as important to health....it is NOT healthy, no matter how often you declare it to be Stephen....only now you say you work to overcome it in yourself and others. Very confusing....but good!

Many God believers have benefitted from the inherent nature of faith and faith assurance and let go of our anxieties long ago. Most if not all, many if not most, it's a process and result of faith and peace of mind and security within uncertainty. It's all very well explained in the UB.

No one here has recommended waiting for or delaying faith and assurance and the elimination of anxiety and its replacement with peace of mind and sublime assurance.

I embrace uncertainty Stephen, not anxiety. You seem to keep mistakenly equating the two. Although definitions have been provided and lots of text posted to show the distinctions.

I don't think there are 12 adjutants Stephen, but just the seven.



8)


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The twelve adjutants of the seventh Circuit of the Central Universe comes from a direct quotation, which I have cited is in Urantia Paper 26, Section 5. Human ascenders traverse this course in order for becoming finalitors.

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to the Underlaying Unity of All Life so that the Voice of Intuition may guide Us closer to Our Common Keeper


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Thanks for the reference. My bad. :wink:

Adjutants for spirit mind in Havona....a new one for me.


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(755.1) 67:1.5 Error suggests lack of intellectual keenness; evil, deficiency of wisdom; sin, abject spiritual poverty; but iniquity is indicative of vanishing personality control.


That's very interesting. It indicates that the iniquiter is becoming an automaton of nature (or supernature if he or she has a soul or morontial or spiritual body)


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You guys and your quibbling! If our goal is to "Be ye perfect even as your father in heaven is perfect" splitting theological hairs and strutting our knowledge of the Papers is so contrary to the example of the Master, at least contrary to Him as I have come to know Him. The only thing you are accomplishing is revealing the size. of your egos. What great things could be accomplished in the spirit of humility and genuine love, but time after time you insist on muddying the pure waters of revelation with haughty attitudes and pharisaical insistence on conformity. You should be ashamed of your behavior and apologize to all and show you are truly sorry for your bad example by forsaking this childish behavior People come to this forum looking for answers, simple answers for life's problems and challenges, and many are new readers hoping to find some solid ground on which to stand, some spiritual refreshment. What promises to be a thought provoking thread soon turns into doctrinal scuffling and it is almost always the same shouters. You can justify your terrible example by claiming to defend the Papers, but your actions and attitudes deny the very essence of the revelation. Please, for the sake of others, swallow your spiritual pride and temper your comments with love . We have moderators here and if someone tries to sow evil seeds of sophistry or just plain old whacko nonsense it will be taken care of in due course without sword rattling and heated accusations. Please.


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fanofVan wrote:
I embrace uncertainty Stephen, not anxiety. You seem to keep mistakenly equating the two. Although definitions have been provided and lots of text posted to show the distinctions.


I think anxiety and uncertainty are intimately related. Anxiety is an emotional reaction to uncertainty, which is very similar to fear being an emotional reaction to religion. Both emotions are primal and essential for evolution, not only physical but mental and spiritual as well. These emotions are meant to direct us toward better, higher and more mature emotional reactions to our outer and inner environment. They are adjutant motivators which are meant to lead to superadjutant motivators. Each person traverses this evolutionary path differently, which is why it is difficult to nail down the specifics of circle progress.

And this is precisely what Stephen has said about anxiety: "I need to insist that it is necessary and useful in understanding work and psychological issues. Anxiety cannot be removed without doing things to make your life better each day."

He is so right about using anxiety as a tool to find a better way. I do not read anything there that suggests Stephen is a victim or slave to anxiety, but a hard and sincere seeker of wisdom in order to master it. Why the constant barrage of criticism escapes me when the essence of his message is true. What good is embracing uncertainty if you're not also doing things to make your life better each day? And because of his next sentence, I'm sure Stephen means making his life better each day is attempting to do the Father's will. He said rather humbly: "This is important especially when you consider that my nature is not the will of God."

Please stop harassing this man and his every word. Please, I beg you.


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SEla_Kelly wrote:
:? I still do not understand why you think that anxiety can be annihilated avoided or absolved. I need to insist that it is necessary and useful in understanding work and psychological issues. Anxiety cannot be removed without doing things to make your life better each day. This is important especially when you consider that my nature is not the will of God. [UB 14:4.13; 14:6.13] Looking forward to the morontial challenges, is postponing the challenges you are face now today.

Assurance or faith might be the end or the goal, but working with anxiety: confronting what is in your mind that provokes such aversion, is the means to obtain a well-rounded and mature personality, from a human experiencial approach.

26:5.5 Time is of little consequence on the Havona circles. In a limited manner it enters into the possibilities of advancement, but achievement is the final and supreme test. The very moment your superaphic associate deems you to be competent to pass inward to the next circle, you will be taken before the twelve adjutants of the seventh Circuit Spirit. Here you will be required to pass the tests of the circle determined by the superuniverse of your origin and by the system of your nativity. The divinity attainment of this circle takes place on the pilot world and consists in the spiritual recognition and realization of the Master Spirit of the ascending pilgrim's superuniverse.
I have always tried to work to overcome anxiety in myself and others. Don't try to escape from anxiety: embrace the problems you find each day and solve them, and after you can gain assurance, when the pain and anxiety has been repaired. It sounds popular to think that you have already gained the ultimate faith assurance of reality, but in my view it is better to embrace uncertainty, so as to prepare your mind for even greater potentials in the central universe, and as a post-Salvington spirit.


Changing your residence from Divinington to Ascendington sounds like a lot of work. [UB 112:7.12]



Stephen says above: "Anxiety cannot be removed without doing things to make your life better each day. This is important especially when you consider that my nature is not the will of God. [UB 14:4.13; 14:6.13] Looking forward to the morontial challenges, is postponing the challenges you are face now today."


Could you elaborate some on "doing things to make your life better each day"...please?

We are taught that we are dual natured beings. This is what distinguishes us from the animal kingdom. The adjutants of worship and wisdom delivers our spirit nature which is the will of God I think. We are born generous, gregarious, loving, etc. We early feel the spirit and respond to spirit; I think you could say we feel God's love and return God's love and by this is faith born. As has been shown by kat and others, love is God's will. God's will is not a what question, it is a why question, a matter of motive and intent.

It is certainly true that our material nature and self serving nature is not God's nature.

Since the soul is morontial, our "morontial challenges" begin with the birth of soul. Transferring the seat of our identity cannot wait nor does our spiritization and circle progress wait. Faith received by our evolutionary religious experience and truth received by personal revelation and the assurances of both faith and truth cannot wait nor can our attachment of branch to vine and growing the fruits of the spirit wait for something or sometime later. We cannot wait to abandon worry, fear, anxiety, and doubt as our faith and assurance grows. We agree we must not postpone progress.

We especially cannot wait until Havona. Fusion occurs for most of us during the Mansion World experience, long before the perfecting education as pure spirits in Paradise. It is the morontial career, which begins on Urantia at about the age of 5 and a half years, that defines our spiritualization adventure with the Adjuster. We must work through all 7 Circles and become fused while still morontial beings. We cannot postpone this work and transformation and transcendence. But we are certainly granted the time it takes and provided the education and support and patience to do the work required of us. We cannot wait to learn to embrace uncertainty and disappointment and defeat without fear and anxiety.

The abandonment of anxiety in favor of assurance is certainly one of those things which cannot be put off until some future time. Uncertainty of choice and outcome persists long into our morontia career and beyond. Should anxiety and worry also? No. Regarding uncertainty - whenever we face a choice, there is a right/good option but there is also a better/wiser option and an even better and even wiser choice. There is even a perfect choice we are told. This is part of uncertainty too. And the outcome remains uncertain for each choice made as well.

I think uncertainty will follow us right into our pure spirit adventures in finality and the outer space regions. For we are told that when we become finaliters we will only have perfected our motive...not our judgment and being. Error may still attend us. Perfection still eludes us. Uncertainty remains our companion. But we are to have vanquished anxiety and learned to feast upon uncertainty "long before"
we reach Havona.

Stephen says above: "It sounds popular to think that you have already gained the ultimate faith assurance of reality, but in my view it is better to embrace uncertainty, so as to prepare your mind for even greater potentials in the central universe, and as a post-Salvington spirit."

I agree. I don't think anyone can or has said they have already gained the ultimate faith assurance of reality. I imagine fusion comes before such certainty. And I also agree we must learn to embrace uncertainty and have said so here many, many times. We are taught that by the time we reach the central universe, we no longer need faith or truth to know reality and be absolutely confident in God and God's love due to all the experiential evidence we behold!

Thanks for the opinions, text references, and contribution Stephen.

8)


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Riktare wrote:
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(755.1) 67:1.5 Error suggests lack of intellectual keenness; evil, deficiency of wisdom; sin, abject spiritual poverty; but iniquity is indicative of vanishing personality control.


That's very interesting. It indicates that the iniquiter is becoming an automaton of nature (or supernature if he or she has a soul or morontial or spiritual body)


Yes....Stephen's recent post took us to Paper 14 which contains some of my favorite text. I think it's related to your quote and comment Riktare!

14:5.7 (159.3) Not until you traverse the last of the Havona circuits and visit the last of the Havona worlds, will the tonic of adventure and the stimulus of curiosity disappear from your career. And then will the urge, the forward impulse of eternity, replace its forerunner, the adventure lure of time.

14:5.8 (159.4) Monotony is indicative of immaturity of the creative imagination and inactivity of intellectual co-ordination with the spiritual endowment. By the time an ascendant mortal begins the exploration of these heavenly worlds, he has already attained emotional, intellectual, and social, if not spiritual, maturity.

14:5.9 (159.5) Not only will you find undreamed-of changes confronting you as you advance from circuit to circuit in Havona, but your astonishment will be inexpressible as you progress from planet to planet within each circuit. Each of these billion study worlds is a veritable university of surprises. Continuing astonishment, unending wonder, is the experience of those who traverse these circuits and tour these gigantic spheres. Monotony is not a part of the Havona career.

14:5.10 (159.6) Love of adventure, curiosity, and dread of monotony—these traits inherent in evolving human nature—were not put there just to aggravate and annoy you during your short sojourn on earth, but rather to suggest to you that death is only the beginning of an endless career of adventure, an everlasting life of anticipation, an eternal voyage of discovery.

14:5.11 (160.1) Curiosity—the spirit of investigation, the urge of discovery, the drive of exploration—is a part of the inborn and divine endowment of evolutionary space creatures. These natural impulses were not given you merely to be frustrated and repressed. True, these ambitious urges must frequently be restrained during your short life on earth, disappointment must be often experienced, but they are to be fully realized and gloriously gratified during the long ages to come.

Me here: I wonder if sinfulness begins with monotony and lack of curiosity and the drive for adventure?? Curiosity and anticipation and adventure delivers uncertainty to our experience. Doesn't adventure and anticipation REQUIRE uncertainty? Do sinful minds seek to somehow avoid uncertainty? Do we become less real and less human without curiosity and determination to overcome disappointments?

26:5.3 (291.3) That, then, is the primary or elementary course which confronts the faith-tested and much-traveled pilgrims of space. But long before reaching Havona, these ascendant children of time have learned to feast upon uncertainty, to fatten upon disappointment, to enthuse over apparent defeat, to invigorate in the presence of difficulties, to exhibit indomitable courage in the face of immensity, and to exercise unconquerable faith when confronted with the challenge of the inexplicable. Long since, the battle cry of these pilgrims became: “In liaison with God, nothing—absolutely nothing—is impossible.”

Me here: I wonder if those who embrace sin are those who simply cannot overcome uncertainty, disappointment, defeat, difficulties and obstacles, and lack courage...the cowards who can never get beyond self love and self importance because of these fears that posses them?

Thanks Riktare!

8)

Faith and trust are the cures for all anxiety and worry and must be embraced to transform our being into its natural, spiritual state I think.


34:7.6 (382.6) Notwithstanding this double disaster to man’s nature and his environment, present-day mortals would experience less of this apparent warfare between the flesh and the spirit if they would enter the spirit kingdom, wherein the faith sons of God enjoy comparative deliverance from the slave-bondage of the flesh in the enlightened and liberating service of wholehearted devotion to doing the will of the Father in heaven. Jesus showed mankind the new way of mortal living whereby human beings may very largely escape the dire consequences of the Caligastic rebellion and most effectively compensate for the deprivations resulting from the Adamic default. “The spirit of the life of Christ Jesus has made us free from the law of animal living and the temptations of evil and sin.” “This is the victory that overcomes the flesh, even your faith.

34:7.7 (383.1) Those God-knowing men and women who have been born of the Spirit experience no more conflict with their mortal natures than do the inhabitants of the most normal of worlds, planets which have never been tainted with sin nor touched by rebellion. Faith sons work on intellectual levels and live on spiritual planes far above the conflicts produced by unrestrained or unnatural physical desires. The normal urges of animal beings and the natural appetites and impulses of the physical nature are not in conflict with even the highest spiritual attainment except in the minds of ignorant, mistaught, or unfortunately overconscientious persons.

34:7.8 (383.2) Having started out on the way of life everlasting, having accepted the assignment and received your orders to advance, do not fear the dangers of human forgetfulness and mortal inconstancy, do not be troubled with doubts of failure or by perplexing confusion, do not falter and question your status and standing, for in every dark hour, at every crossroad in the forward struggle, the Spirit of Truth will always speak, saying, “This is the way.”


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fanofVan wrote:
Me here: I wonder if sinfulness begins with monotony and lack of curiosity and the drive for adventure?? Curiosity and anticipation and adventure delivers uncertainty to our experience. Doesn't adventure and anticipation REQUIRE uncertainty? Do sinful minds seek to somehow avoid uncertainty? Do we become less real and less human without curiosity and determination to overcome disappointments?


Similar ideas sometimes occur to me too. It may be that a youthful or otherwise experience deprived soul who suffers monotony might even start to think that reality lacks a certain satisfaction relative to the duties one sees himself/herself under requirement to uphold. Certain ideas might arise that take one away from reality rather than towards it because those are simply the best one could think of at the moment. Those invented ideas become more important than reality so some aspects of reality may slip away, even including the person's ability to readily experience or entertain those aspects of reality.


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fanofVan wrote:
The adjutants of worship and wisdom delivers our spirit nature which is the will of God I think.


Could you be more specific? I'm not sure what you mean. Are you saying that the adjutants of worship and wisdom are responsible for our spirit nature? Which is the will of God, our spirit nature or the adjutants? The sentence is unclear to me.

fanofVan wrote:
I think you could say we feel God's love and return God's love and by this is faith born.


Again, I find this sentence confusing and am wondering if you could clarify. Are you saying that faith is born rather than being a gift from the Father? Are you also saying that we do not receive this gift until we love God in return? I find that confusing.

fanofVan wrote:
God's will is not a what question, it is a why question, a matter of motive and intent.


Personally, I don't experience the Father's will as either a "what" or a "why". I don't question the Father, I love him. And it is this love that grows and blossoms into fruit, which is what I consider to be the will of my Father. Fruit bearing is living love and I don't need to know "what" or "why" to do that. Wholeheartedly loving the Father makes his will readily apparent as an experiential reality. I think emphasizing the "why" is way too cerebral. It's essentially what Jim George explained so eloquently in his last post.
I do agree that motive is important though. It is written that love is the highest motivation, but if it does not contain truth, beauty and goodness, it is merely a human sentiment. It misses the mark. Reference:

(2096.5) 196:3.29 Religious insight possesses the power of turning defeat into higher desires and new determinations. Love is the highest motivation which man may utilize in his universe ascent. But love, divested of truth, beauty, and goodness, is only a sentiment, a philosophic distortion, a psychic illusion, a spiritual deception. Love must always be redefined on successive levels of morontia and spirit progression.

fanofVan wrote:
Uncertainty of choice and outcome persists long into our morontia career and beyond. . . . I think uncertainty will follow us right into our pure spirit adventures in finality and the outer space regions.


Indeed, uncertainty could well last into eternity if these references below are any indication, but it's uncertainty with security, and that's were assurance comes in. That feeling of security doesn't happen overnight. It's a process.

(438:2) 39:5.9 In the more advanced planetary ages these seraphim enhance man's appreciation of the truth that uncertainty is the secret of contented continuity. They help the mortal philosophers to realize that, when ignorance is essential to success, it would be a colossal blunder for the creature to know the future. They heighten man's taste for the sweetness of uncertainty, for the romance and charm of the indefinite and unknown future.

(1223:3)  111:7.1 Uncertainty with security is the essence of the Paradise adventure—uncertainty in time and in mind, uncertainty as to the events of the unfolding Paradise ascent; security in spirit and in eternity, security in the unqualified trust of the creature son in the divine compassion and infinite love of the Universal Father; uncertainty as an inexperienced citizen of the universe; security as an ascending son in the universe mansions of an all-powerful, all-wise, and all-loving Father.


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katroofjebus wrote:
fanofVan wrote:
The adjutants of worship and wisdom delivers our spirit nature which is the will of God I think.


Could you be more specific? I'm not sure what you mean. Are you saying that the adjutants of worship and wisdom are responsible for our spirit nature? Which is the will of God, our spirit nature or the adjutants? The sentence is unclear to me.

My response: My understanding of the role of the adjutants related to mind and spirit are summarized here:

36:5.11 (402.8) 6. The spirit of worship—the religious impulse, the first differential urge separating mind creatures into the two basic classes of mortal existence. The spirit of worship forever distinguishes the animal of its association from the soulless creatures of mind endowment. Worship is the badge of spiritual-ascension candidacy.

36:5.12 (402.9) 7. The spirit of wisdom—the inherent tendency of all moral creatures towards orderly and progressive evolutionary advancement. This is the highest of the adjutants, the spirit co-ordinator and articulator of the work of all the others. This spirit is the secret of that inborn urge of mind creatures which initiates and maintains the practical and effective program of the ascending scale of existence; that gift of living things which accounts for their inexplicable ability to survive and, in survival, to utilize the co-ordination of all their past experience and present opportunities for the acquisition of all of everything that all of the other six mental ministers can mobilize in the mind of the organism concerned. Wisdom is the acme of intellectual performance. Wisdom is the goal of a purely mental and moral existence.

36:5.16 (403.4) The adjutant mind-spirits are in no manner directly related to the diverse and highly spiritual function of the spirit of the personal presence of the Divine Minister, the Holy Spirit of the inhabited worlds; but they are functionally antecedent to, and preparatory for, the appearance of this very spirit in evolutionary man. The adjutants afford the Universe Mother Spirit a varied contact with, and control over, the material living creatures of a local universe, but they do not repercuss in the Supreme Being when acting on prepersonality levels.



fanofVan wrote:
I think you could say we feel God's love and return God's love and by this is faith born.


Again, I find this sentence confusing and am wondering if you could clarify. Are you saying that faith is born rather than being a gift from the Father? Are you also saying that we do not receive this gift until we love God in return? I find that confusing.

My response: I have looked but cannot find text which says that faith is a gift. Please provide. Thank you. If faith were a gift like personality, free will, and time, then would not all mortals have faith? Do all mortals have faith? Isn't faith a function of choice and our soul. Is there faith prior to the soul's birth? Is it faith that gives birth to soul?

fanofVan wrote:
God's will is not a what question, it is a why question, a matter of motive and intent.


Personally, I don't experience the Father's will as either a "what" or a "why". I don't question the Father, I love him. And it is this love that grows and blossoms into fruit, which is what I consider to be the will of my Father. Fruit bearing is living love and I don't need to know "what" or "why" to do that. Wholeheartedly loving the Father makes his will readily apparent as an experiential reality. I think emphasizing the "why" is way too cerebral. It's essentially what Jim George explained so eloquently in his last post.
I do agree that motive is important though. It is written that love is the highest motivation, but if it does not contain truth, beauty and goodness, it is merely a human sentiment. It misses the mark. Reference:

(2096.5) 196:3.29 Religious insight possesses the power of turning defeat into higher desires and new determinations. Love is the highest motivation which man may utilize in his universe ascent. But love, divested of truth, beauty, and goodness, is only a sentiment, a philosophic distortion, a psychic illusion, a spiritual deception. Love must always be redefined on successive levels of morontia and spirit progression.

My response: I don't find motive to be at all cerebral. Guess we'll disagree on that. Motivation becomes nearly instinctual in determining our responses at every intersection of choice....we are told it becomes reflexive even....automatic and natural. Faith and assurance and religious experience and wisdom all combine to change our motivations and our intentions and our priorities...these determine our choices and our outcomes...or so I understand.

Our motivation for living and choosing are determined by our spiritization and Circle Progress and the transfer of the seat of our very identity. It may be something we think about initially and something that we reflect upon as we discover how outcomes are profoundly affected by motives and intentions but we are taught that motive becomes spiritually reflexive and responsive and even an automatic reaction to the choices we face as mortals...and beyond.

I think you are choosing to ignore the issue raised by Stephen which is a very common one among believers....the desire by some to know the timing and tactic and strategy and intention that reflects God's perfect choice at the intersection of human decision. This is something that will remain elusive and impossible to all mortals for all time. The UB says mortal ascenders will ONLY perfect the MOTIVE for our decisions when we arrive in Paradise. We will not be making perfect choices or know the will of God so long as we believe that knowing WHAT his will is should be ours to know. It's not.

We may only align our individual will with God's. We can only dedicate our will to the doing of Father's will. But we cannot DO or KNOW the perfection of what God would choose to do. This is a false and often debilitating belief of some. All God requires for spiritual growth is that our will be driven by the motive of love of God and a desire to do his will and then trust God for all outcomes related thereto. This is a critical point! There can be no assurance and no security unless and until we understand the difference. The uncertainty to face is not what is God's will. If we can know what God would do, then we would not have to face disappointment or failure and there would be no uncertainty.

100:1.8 (1095.3) Religious habits of thinking and acting are contributory to the economy of spiritual growth. One can develop religious predispositions toward favorable reaction to spiritual stimuli, a sort of conditioned spiritual reflex. Habits which favor religious growth embrace cultivated sensitivity to divine values, recognition of religious living in others, reflective meditation on cosmic meanings, worshipful problem solving, sharing one’s spiritual life with one’s fellows, avoidance of selfishness, refusal to presume on divine mercy, living as in the presence of God. The factors of religious growth may be intentional, but the growth itself is unvaryingly unconscious.

100:1.9 (1095.4) The unconscious nature of religious growth does not, however, signify that it is an activity functioning in the supposed subconscious realms of human intellect; rather does it signify creative activities in the superconscious levels of mortal mind. The experience of the realization of the reality of unconscious religious growth is the one positive proof of the functional existence of the superconsciousness.

100:2.3 (1095.7) Religion can progress to that level of experience whereon it becomes an enlightened and wise technique of spiritual reaction to the universe. Such a glorified religion can function on three levels of human personality: the intellectual, the morontial, and the spiritual; upon the mind, in the evolving soul, and with the indwelling spirit.

(22.5) 1:1.2 The Universal Father never imposes any form of arbitrary recognition, formal worship, or slavish service upon the intelligent will creatures of the universes. The evolutionary inhabitants of the worlds of time and space must of themselves — in their own hearts — recognize, love, and voluntarily worship him. The Creator refuses to coerce or compel the submission of the spiritual free wills of his material creatures. The affectionate dedication of the human will to the doing of the Father’s will is man’s choicest gift to God; in fact, such a consecration of creature will constitutes man’s only possible gift of true value to the Paradise Father. In God, man lives, moves, and has his being; there is nothing which man can give to God except this choosing to abide by the Father’s will, and such decisions, effected by the intelligent will creatures of the universes, constitute the reality of that true worship which is so satisfying to the love-dominated nature of the Creator Father.


fanofVan wrote:
Uncertainty of choice and outcome persists long into our morontia career and beyond. . . . I think uncertainty will follow us right into our pure spirit adventures in finality and the outer space regions.


Indeed, uncertainty could well last into eternity if these references below are any indication, but it's uncertainty with security, and that's were assurance comes in. That feeling of security doesn't happen overnight. It's a process.

(438:2) 39:5.9 In the more advanced planetary ages these seraphim enhance man's appreciation of the truth that uncertainty is the secret of contented continuity. They help the mortal philosophers to realize that, when ignorance is essential to success, it would be a colossal blunder for the creature to know the future. They heighten man's taste for the sweetness of uncertainty, for the romance and charm of the indefinite and unknown future.

(1223:3)  111:7.1 Uncertainty with security is the essence of the Paradise adventure—uncertainty in time and in mind, uncertainty as to the events of the unfolding Paradise ascent; security in spirit and in eternity, security in the unqualified trust of the creature son in the divine compassion and infinite love of the Universal Father; uncertainty as an inexperienced citizen of the universe; security as an ascending son in the universe mansions of an all-powerful, all-wise, and all-loving Father.


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fanofVan wrote:
My response: I have looked but cannot find text which says that faith is a gift. Please provide. Thank you.


Certainly, no problem. Here are several. You're welcome.

(1610.2) 143:2.7 Your sonship is grounded in faith, and you are to remain unmoved by fear. Your joy is born of trust in the divine word, and you shall not therefore be led to doubt the reality of the Father's love and mercy. It is the very goodness of God that leads men into true and genuine repentance. Your secret of the mastery of self is bound up with your faith in the indwelling spirit, which ever works by love. Even this saving faith you have not of yourselves; it also is the gift of God. And if you are the children of this living faith, you are no longer the bondslaves of self but rather the triumphant masters of yourselves, the liberated sons of God.

(1537.4) 137:8.17 “John came preaching repentance to prepare you for the kingdom; now have I come proclaiming faith, the gift of God, as the price of entrance into the kingdom of heaven. If you would but believe that my Father loves you with an infinite love, then you are in the kingdom of God.”

(1593.4) 141:7.3 Jesus endeavored to make clear that he desired his disciples, having tasted of the good spirit realities of the kingdom, so to live in the world that men, by seeing their lives, would become kingdom conscious and hence be led to inquire of believers concerning the ways of the kingdom. All such sincere seekers for the truth are always glad to hear the glad tidings of the faith gift which insures admission to the kingdom with its eternal and divine spirit realities.


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keyword search for "faith":

https://truthbook.com/search/UBParagrap ... &start=all

The study of faith and its origin and source and definition and function and transformative power and distinction from knowledge and understanding are all very important when it comes to assurance and the supreme confidence and uncertainty with security and the control and elimination of anxiety....related to our personality, identity, and spiritual progress and transformation.

What is faith? Where does it come from? How does it grow? What does it deliver to mind and soul?

Here's two quotes to help us define "faith":

99:5.7 Just as certainly as men share their religious beliefs, they create a religious group of some sort which eventually creates common goals. Someday religionists will get together and actually effect co-operation on the basis of unity of ideals and purposes rather than attempting to do so on the basis of psychological opinions and theological beliefs. Goals rather than creeds should unify religionists. Since true religion is a matter of personal spiritual experience, it is inevitable that each individual religionist must have his own and personal interpretation of the realization of that spiritual experience. Let the term "faith" stand for the individual's relation to God rather than for the creedal formulation of what some group of mortals have been able to agree upon as a common religious attitude. "Have you faith? Then have it to yourself."

99:5.8 That faith is concerned only with the grasp of ideal values is shown by the New Testament definition which declares that faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen.

8)

Regarding kat's post and quotes above, please note that faith stands for the individual's relation to God, which is certainly God's gift to all beings in his creation. So life itself, free will, personality, mind, time, and faith are all gifts of God. And faith is the relationship, initiated by God, which grows according to our inner response to God and God's gifts. The more we grow in the spirit, then the greater does faith become as we grow in the spirit. It is our faith which determines the level of truth we have realized and the totality of our wisdom and ideals.

The quotes from 102 tell us that all certainties about our relationship with God and faith and trust in God result from faith and faith overcomes all doubts and anxieties. The more faith, the less anxiety. The more faith, the more security in the face of all material and religious and decision/choice uncertainties. Faith is the very source of growth and strength of character and progress in the spirit and the fruits of the spirit!!

102:6.1 (1124.3) The philosophic elimination of religious fear and the steady progress of science add greatly to the mortality of false gods; and even though these casualties of man-made deities may momentarily befog the spiritual vision, they eventually destroy that ignorance and superstition which so long obscured the living God of eternal love. The relation between the creature and the Creator is a living experience, a dynamic religious faith, which is not subject to precise definition. To isolate part of life and call it religion is to disintegrate life and to distort religion. And this is just why the God of worship claims all allegiance or none.

102:4.3 (1123.3) Man very early becomes conscious that he is not alone in the world or the universe. There develops a natural spontaneous self-consciousness of other-mindness in the environment of selfhood. Faith translates this natural experience into religion, the recognition of God as the reality—source, nature, and destiny—of other-mindness. But such a knowledge of God is ever and always a reality of personal experience. If God were not a personality, he could not become a living part of the real religious experience of a human personality.

102:6.4 (1124.6) Faith transforms the philosophic God of probability into the saving God of certainty in the personal religious experience. Skepticism may challenge the theories of theology, but confidence in the dependability of personal experience affirms the truth of that belief which has grown into faith.

102:6.5 (1124.7) Convictions about God may be arrived at through wise reasoning, but the individual becomes God-knowing only by faith, through personal experience. In much that pertains to life, probability must be reckoned with, but when contacting with cosmic reality, certainty may be experienced when such meanings and values are approached by living faith. The God-knowing soul dares to say, “I know,” even when this knowledge of God is questioned by the unbeliever who denies such certitude because it is not wholly supported by intellectual logic. To every such doubter the believer only replies, “How do you know that I do not know?”

102:6.6 (1125.1) Though reason can always question faith, faith can always supplement both reason and logic. Reason creates the probability which faith can transform into a moral certainty, even a spiritual experience. God is the first truth and the last fact; therefore does all truth take origin in him, while all facts exist relative to him. God is absolute truth. As truth one may know God, but to understand—to explain—God, one must explore the fact of the universe of universes. The vast gulf between the experience of the truth of God and ignorance as to the fact of God can be bridged only by living faith. Reason alone cannot achieve harmony between infinite truth and universal fact.

102:6.7 (1125.2) Belief may not be able to resist doubt and withstand fear, but faith is always triumphant over doubting, for faith is both positive and living. The positive always has the advantage over the negative, truth over error, experience over theory, spiritual realities over the isolated facts of time and space. The convincing evidence of this spiritual certainty consists in the social fruits of the spirit which such believers, faithers, yield as a result of this genuine spiritual experience. Said Jesus: “If you love your fellows as I have loved you, then shall all men know that you are my disciples.”

132:3.5 (1459.5) But truth can never become man’s possession without the exercise of faith. This is true because man’s thoughts, wisdom, ethics, and ideals will never rise higher than his faith, his sublime hope. And all such true faith is predicated on profound reflection, sincere self-criticism, and uncompromising moral consciousness. Faith is the inspiration of the spiritized creative imagination.

8)


Last edited by fanofVan on Tue May 21, 2019 9:47 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Bradly, the references you provided do not answer the question I asked what you meant by this: "The adjutants of worship and wisdom delivers our spirit nature which is the will of God I think."

Do the two higher adjutants deliver our spirit nature? As I understand it, our spirit nature is our soul. If you mean that, how do the spirits of worship and wisdom deliver our soul?

Are you perhaps attempting to say that the spirits of worship and wisdom minister to our material minds and are responsible for providing the soil from which the material co-partner of soul formation arises?

And, are you saying the will of God is our spirit nature or are you saying the adjutants of worship and wisdom are the will of God, or is it the delivery that is the will of God? It's all very confusing as written and I'm asking for a clarification in your own words please. It's not possible to have a discussion if we don't understand one another. Talking at one another is not a discussion, it's contest. I would prefer to avoid that.


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fanofVan wrote:
If faith were a gift like personality, free will, and time, then would not all mortals have faith? Do all mortals have faith?


If they are God-conscious, if they have a soul, then every personality has the gift of faith. Whether or not a person accepts the gift is entirely a personal matter.

As it is written in the reference you provided above, faith is the relationship between Creator and creature; it is a living and growing gift provided the creature participates. Additionally, this relationship occurs in the soul, and each individual person has his own personal experience with the gift of faith, which is why they say: "Have you faith? Then have it to yourself."

fanofVan wrote:
Is there faith prior to the soul's birth? Is it faith that gives birth to soul?


Obviously not if it's a relationship between Father and son, Creator and creature, God and man. Wisdom is the coordinator of the lower nature with the higher nature (soul), but neither it nor the adjutant of worship are equipped to provide the gift of faith. Only a spirit personality can do that within a personality relationship. The adjutants are not personalities. This is why the endowment of the Holy Spirit at the birth of the soul is so critical. She is a spirit personality presence. Even before Adjutants arrive she provides the relationship, which makes available the gift of faith.

When it is written that faith is the price of admission to the Father's kingdom, it is a reference to the maintenance of the faith-trust relationship between Father and son, known as sonship. Incidentally, sonship is also a gift. It goes right along with faith.


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