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fanofVan wrote:
You keep justifying anxiety kat and defending falsehoods. Very strange choices.


Yes I do justify anxiety because it is part of the divine plan. What NO ONE is justifying is dwelling on anxiety, allowing it to rule one's life. Anxiety is a tool given to us by our very wise Creators, without it we would suffer from our innate ease-seeking natures.

Why do you keep denying the FACTS as written in the Fifth Epochal Revelation? When it is written that anxiety should be abandoned, the author means abandon its control over the mind, to learn how to deal with disappointments in a productive way. As long as we are alive we will have adjutant mind ministry and as long as we have adjutant mind ministry, there will be anxiety urging us on toward higher levels of thinking.

Anxiety, uncertainty, confusion and doubt are clues that we are not completely in tune with the Father's will, and those adjutant emotions are put there to urge us to seek resolution, to pray for help in settling the mental unrest that arises from our dual natures. If you're going to write sermons telling people what to do with their anxiety, don't tell them to abandon it like the Buddha, but teach them how to use it. Conflict in the mind is inevitable and if handled wisely will lead to productive insight. Conflict in the soul is another matter which does indeed have serious consequences in that it suggests a breakdown of loyalty, but that is not what we are talking about here.

As long as we are living in-between the levels of material flesh and spiritual enlightenment, there will be anxiety, conflict, confusion, uncertainty. These things are meant to be. They are there for a reason. It is a mental reality that MUST be traversed. Please stop telling fellow students to abandon it, tell them to embrace their personal responsibility and cosmic obligation to master it through the use of faith rather than by trading it in for faith. We cannot escape being human despite the Buddha's devotion to transcendent bliss and leisure.

(1766:03) 159:3.7 Forewarn all believers regarding the fringe of conflict which must be traversed by all who pass from the life as it is lived in the flesh to the higher life as it is lived in the spirit. To those who live quite wholly within either realm, there is little conflict or confusion, but all are doomed to experience more or less uncertainty during the times of transition between the two levels of living. In entering the kingdom, you cannot escape its responsibilities or avoid its obligations, but remember: The gospel yoke is easy and the burden of truth is light.

(551.3) 48:5.8 One of the purposes of the morontia career is to effect the permanent eradication from the mortal survivors of such animal vestigial traits as procrastination, equivocation, insincerity, problem avoidance, unfairness, and ease seeking. The mansonia life early teaches the young morontia pupils that postponement is in no sense avoidance. After the life in the flesh, time is no longer available as a technique of dodging situations or of circumventing disagreeable obligations.


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So you're sticking with anxiety is a healthy thing? The UB says anxiety "must be abandoned" and Jesus preached against worry and anxiety. Please choose for yourself.


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After reading Truthbook again, I am once again struck with the observation of mortal mindsets attempting to understand spirit reality as if it was an intellectually discovered mental concept.

True spirit reality is realized from deep within our beings and is available to each spirit indwelt mortal, learned or not, equally. The fruits of such a realization within our souls produce the character of the spirit. It is by our willingness and desire to be like this spirit, a discovery of personal faith and conviction deep within our beings, that this process of character transformation is made manifest.

Having consciously engaged this process many years ago, I am curious what motivates one to be so inclined as to create a theology; an intellectual understanding of such a revelation as The Urantia papers, as a necessary basis upon which to build one's character. In fact it seems counterproductive and counterintuitive and the constant confrontations exhibited here on Truthbook reveal mostly the character of theological persuasion versus the revelation of spirit embrace.

God in his amazing wisdom and love has always revealed to me the futility of any more than a rudimentary theology for my personal use simply because of the tendency of my mind and will to become more enamored with my thoughts, than with his. As is revealed, the experience of personal interaction with the indwelling divine spirit, the Thought Adjuster, requires an act of will, not an act of intellect.

I pray for a renewed focus here.


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So you recommend anxiety be held and endured until light and life or the exhaustion of all finite potential?


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Do you abandon anxiety first and then discover faith-trust, or do you discover faith-trust first and then learn how to abandon anxiety?


Good questions, and not so easily answered with a one-size-fits-all solution.

Anxiety is something that can be imprinted in a person's experience at a very early age. It can be a response to life circumstances that is experienced even in a pre-verbal stage of life, making it very difficult to even recognize until life becomes so influenced by it that it MUST be addressed. Until then, it can be so pervasive as to seem a "normal" state of affairs. I suspect a goodly number of souls live this way.

If one is fortunate enough to identify anxiety as a foe - and not the norm - then, one can start to address and overcome it. But it is never easy to do. Many times, one's whole life must be slowly re-programmed and experienced in a whole new way to appreciate how much better it can be without anxiety.

And - living a life driven by anxiety and/or fear has a built-in component of adrenaline that can program a person into getting accustomed to being in "crisis mode," 24/7. Learning to live without that fight-or-flight stance can also be very challenging, and unsettling.

Abandon anxiety? When I first read those words, I was incredulous. But after decades of effort, God has helped me to do just that...amazing! In my case, I had to learn faith-trust first. I had to discover and embrace the assurance that was promised in the UB teachings. But at first, it seemed like a ridiculous thing to even try...we all go at our pwn pace. It's an evolution, not a snap decision that instantly manifests. In my opinion (and experience) that is...


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Pretty girls = anxiety.


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BTW - nice to see you here again, Jim...
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Having consciously engaged this process many years ago, I am curious what motivates one to be so inclined as to create a theology; an intellectual understanding of such a revelation as The Urantia papers, as a necessary basis upon which to build one's character. In fact it seems counterproductive and counterintuitive and the constant confrontations exhibited here on Truthbook reveal mostly the character of theological persuasion versus the revelation of spirit embrace.


I think you have hit on something good to consider here. Words on a page are just that - words on a page. It is not always easy to translate the truth that we find in the UB into reality for our own lives. We may agree in principle, but putting truth into personal practice takes time and effort - sorrow and joy - tearing down and building back up. This process can take a very long time, but it does not mean we don't believe. It just may mean that we're doing the best we can where we are right now.

I remember having the experience of rebirth in the Spirit. It was pretty much an instant decision, but it took many, many years before I felt that I was firmly rooted in the Kingdom. Years of back-and-forth - one foot in and one foot out. My material life had to catch up with my new spiritual ideals. And in that in-between time, I was a mess a lot of the time. The spiritual life is hard work! especially if one has a lot of tearing-down to do.

Sometimes here on this forum, some of us have the tendency to browbeat others for not being able to totally embrace every truth that the book offers. Example:

Quote:
Why do you keep denying the FACTS as written in the Fifth Epochal Revelation?


Facts have to be translated into truth through experience. And just because we don't all manage to do it RIGHT NOW, or even "right" doesn't make those of us who lag behind any less valuable or any less beloved by God. We just never know the trials that a person my be going through...


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fanofVan wrote:
So you recommend anxiety be held and endured until light and life or the exhaustion of all finite potential?


No, I don't think I said any such thing. I recommend that anxiety, uncertainty, confusion, doubt be recognized as symptoms of unfinished business, and then go about fulfilling the obligation to finish it, to settle it as Stephen says, by seeking the will of the Father.

fanofVan wrote:
Do you think potentials can be actualized and settled prior to fusion?


Potentials are being actualized every minute. I'm actualizing one right now even though I haven't fused. Actualizing the will of the Father is the my highest goal and there are times when that does happen as explained in this reference:

(1205.3) 110:2.5 You as a personal creature have mind and will. The Adjuster as a prepersonal creature has premind and prewill. If you so fully conform to the Adjuster's mind that you see eye to eye, then your minds become one, and you receive the reinforcement of the Adjuster's mind. Subsequently, if your will orders and enforces the execution of the decisions of this new or combined mind, the Adjuster's prepersonal will attains to personality expression through your decision, and as far as that particular project is concerned, you and the Adjuster are one. Your mind has attained to divinity attunement, and the Adjuster's will has achieved personality expression.
(1205.4) 110:2.6 To the extent that this identity is realized, you are mentally approaching the morontia order of existence. Morontia mind is a term signifying the substance and sum total of the co-operating minds of diversely material and spiritual natures. Morontia intellect, therefore, connotes a dual mind in the local universe dominated by one will. And with mortals this is a will, human in origin, which is becoming divine through man's identification of the human mind with the mindedness of God.

fanofVan wrote:
How about after? I don't.


You don't think a personality can actualize potentials after fusion? Is that what you're saying? Perhaps you didn't get a chance to think about this reference which explains that actualizing potentials is the dynamic of the universe which never ends. ALWAYS will actuals be opening up. ALWAYS is a strong word.

(1263:3) 115:3.16 The final dynamics of the cosmos have to do with the continual transfer of reality from potentiality to actuality. In theory, there may be an end to this metamorphosis, but in fact, such is impossible since the Potential and the Actual are both encircuited in the Original (the I AM), and this identification makes it forever impossible to place a limit on the developmental progression of the universe. Whatsoever is identified with the I AM can never find an end to progression since the actuality of the potentials of the I AM is absolute, and the potentiality of the actuals of the I AM is also absolute. Always will actuals be opening up new avenues of the realization of hitherto impossible potentials—every human decision not only actualizes a new reality in human experience but also opens up a new capacity for human growth. The man lives in every child, and the morontia progressor is resident in the mature God-knowing man.

How about this reference concerning the personality as it ascends levels of the universes? Wouldn't a personality be fused by the time it gets to the levels of the universes (emphasis on the plural)? Humans are not called ascending sons until after fusion.

(1286:4 117:5.6) The progressing personality leaves a trail of actualized reality as it passes through the ascending levels of the universes. Be they mind, spirit, or energy, the growing creations of time and space are modified by the progression of personality through their domains. When man acts, the Supreme reacts, and this transaction constitutes the fact of progression.

And finally there is this reference which explains that even after fusion the Adjuster continues to impart new potential attributes to the personality, and this process can never be exhausted.

(1212.5) 110:7.4  Subsequent to mortal fusion the Adjusters share your destiny and experience; they are you. After the fusion of the immortal morontia soul and the associated Adjuster, all of the experience and all of the values of the one eventually become the possession of the other, so that the two are actually one entity. In a certain sense, this new being is of the eternal past as well as for the eternal future. All that was once human in the surviving soul and all that is experientially divine in the Adjuster now become the actual possession of the new and ever-ascending universe personality. But on each universe level the Adjuster can endow the new creature only with those attributes which are meaningful and of value on that level. An absolute oneness with the divine Monitor, a complete exhaustion of the endowment of an Adjuster, can only be achieved in eternity subsequent to the final attainment of the Universal Father, the Father of spirits, ever the source of these divine gifts.


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fanofVan wrote:
So you're sticking with anxiety is a healthy thing? The UB says anxiety "must be abandoned" and Jesus preached against worry and anxiety. Please choose for yourself.


Yes, I'm sticking to the fact that anxiety is part of the divine plan. It is a gift-in-disguise. What the revelation is asking us to do is use the gift and not let it use us, or enslave us. We are meant to abandon our bondage to it. Anxiety itself is a powerful tool, but when used improperly can cause unnecessary suffering. It's a matter of perspective not unlike this reference:

(555.4) 48:6.25  Even as mortals, so have these angels been father to many disappointments, and they will point out that sometimes your most disappointing disappointments have become your greatest blessings. Sometimes the planting of a seed necessitates its death, the death of your fondest hopes, before it can be reborn to bear the fruits of new life and new opportunity. And from them you will learn to suffer less through sorrow and disappointment, first, by making fewer personal plans concerning other personalities, and then, by accepting your lot when you have faithfully performed your duty.


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I hope that I can be understood in this following explanation.

Hume and Chomsky both refer to a Hierarchy of Needs. For the Human Individual, one level of psychology requires the ascencion of developmental psychology through this western ideal. So that the basis of needs must be met before new challenges can begin.

I want to affirm the reality, the meaning, and what I think is the purpose of anxiety. Anxiety is something that is perceptually valid, and stress on the human condition can reflect this into signs of physical distress or neurotic ("unproductive") behaviours. If your solutions to the work are not final, you will doubt your own craftmanship again and again. You must become a professional in order to have enough faith to promise others that you will do the work the proper manner according to the word of contract.

Whenever there is shoddy workmanship of my own hand, I will have to go back, if not to the place where I worked, but to the situation in my mind. If you have enough assurance, I would suppose, that you do not linger in doubts at this stage, but that it is not suprising for anyone who has continuous failures in the line of the goals his sought.

The reason for anxiety is that it will bring you to the material reality of how to complete the goals you set out to create. Uncertainty is not in itself the reason for anxiety, but rather it is in that having tried, I know that I must learn to try again next time in a better way. When I have become responsible for my own expenses, I will shut my power off and live by candle light. But this is also to say, that I have not set forth in the proper apprenticeship in order to develop the proper stewardship of the industry and trust that I have been given. I would rather know "what to do next", how to actually complete the water lines on my houes, stop buying the wrong parts, and you know work better in general.

As in the transition from one phase into a new set of challenge, and through a person's maturational process, whatever it may be, anxiety is like a prayer that should be answered, if not by all-knowing angels, but by people who are willing on their part to oversee the labour that an adult has set forth to perform. I am not as intuitive as God the Universal Father, who created the universe out of nothing. Furthermore, I would rather work with what I have been given, rather than trying to acquire a new field. I hope that I have helped you to understand, why the more you push the reality of the Thought Adjuster's assurance, that I can only assure you that anxiety is a healthy part of growth and especially transition into greater fields of mind capacity.

Luke 15:8-10
“Or what woman having ten silver pieces and losing one would not light a lamp and sweep the house, searching carefully until she finds it?
And when she does find it, she calls together her friends and neighbors and says to them, ‘Rejoice with me because I have found the coin that I lost.’
In just the same way, I tell you, there will be rejoicing among the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Luke 15:21
"His son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you; I no longer deserve to be called your son.’"
In either scenario, anxiety would be seen as a healthy part of either work or development.

The Urantia Book presents a narrative that is entirely logical, and most of the teachings, I have firmed rational grasp on them. I would like to differentiate between theoretical fact, and historical final truth, as to the status of Urantia, and the status of Satania, because hello there is so much that I do not doubt. I have already brought with me the experiences I would need to know in order to confirm it.

_________________
to the Underlaying Unity of All Life so that the Voice of Intuition may guide Us closer to Our Common Keeper


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fanofVan wrote:
And what is God's will in each and every situation? Pray tell.


Surely you've read this fact in the Revelation, but perhaps you have assigned a different meaning to it than I:

(52.5) 3:6.2 The will of God is divine truth, living love; therefore are the perfecting creations of the evolutionary universes characterized by goodness — nearness to divinity; by potential evil — remoteness from divinity.

This means to me that in any given situation love is God's will. Our individual ability to love unselfishly is a matter of soul growth and circle progress (nearness to divinity), but at any level we are functioning, the gift of desiring wholeheartedly to do the will of God is to love wholeheartedly, both God and man. Love will grow as we learn to identify with the true nature of our heavenly Father, but to the best of our abilities, love is our offering and it is acceptable in his sight.

(2090.2) 196:1.1 Jesus’ devotion to the Father’s will and the service of man was even more than mortal decision and human determination; it was a wholehearted consecration of himself to such an unreserved bestowal of love.


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Maybe Adam and Eve felt a little anxiety when they contemplated coming up with a million violet offspring?


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Maybe Adam and Eve felt a little anxiety when they contemplated coming up with a million violet offspring?


LOL! They surely must have felt anxiety and unease - in fact we are told they were discouraged at times over the state of affairs here. I haven't got the time right now, but I might just look into that...how they dealt with it - or if...

Of course, we do know that Eve responded when given a plan that she thought might help matters...


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It might be worthwhile too to remember that words in English (and most other human languages on this planet) are often not so precise and descriptive in detail. That is probably why we see different narratives involving anxiety from different authors and in different situations.

I think giving too much credence to Thesauruses very definitely "dumbs down" our sensitivities to more refined and more accurate use of words. It seems fairly obvious that a word like anxiety can mean a large range of experiences and conditions. I tend to like the word "commotion" to capture the stimulus aspect of anxiety that is often quite essential to trigger growth of faith and willingness to cooperate when we are otherwise stagnant.


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katroofjebus wrote:
fanofVan wrote:
And what is God's will in each and every situation? Pray tell.


Surely you've read this fact in the Revelation, but perhaps you have assigned a different meaning to it than I:

(52.5) 3:6.2 The will of God is divine truth, living love; therefore are the perfecting creations of the evolutionary universes characterized by goodness — nearness to divinity; by potential evil — remoteness from divinity.

This means to me that in any given situation love is God's will. Our individual ability to love unselfishly is a matter of soul growth and circle progress (nearness to divinity), but at any level we are functioning, the gift of desiring wholeheartedly to do the will of God is to love wholeheartedly, both God and man. Love will grow as we learn to identify with the true nature of our heavenly Father, but to the best of our abilities, love is our offering and it is acceptable in his sight.

(2090.2) 196:1.1 Jesus’ devotion to the Father’s will and the service of man was even more than mortal decision and human determination; it was a wholehearted consecration of himself to such an unreserved bestowal of love.


Yes. Glad we agree. Precisely my point. To agonize and be anxious trying to figure out "what" God's will is at every choice in life, a pure heart is God's will in every situation. Exactly what I said. Which contradicts Stephen's claim. Thank you.


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katroofjebus wrote:
fanofVan wrote:
So you recommend anxiety be held and endured until light and life or the exhaustion of all finite potential?


No, I don't think I said any such thing. I recommend that anxiety, uncertainty, confusion, doubt be recognized as symptoms of unfinished business, and then go about fulfilling the obligation to finish it, to settle it as Stephen says, by seeking the will of the Father.

fanofVan wrote:
Do you think potentials can be actualized and settled prior to fusion?


Potentials are being actualized every minute. I'm actualizing one right now even though I haven't fused. Actualizing the will of the Father is the my highest goal and there are times when that does happen as explained in this reference:

(1205.3) 110:2.5 You as a personal creature have mind and will. The Adjuster as a prepersonal creature has premind and prewill. If you so fully conform to the Adjuster's mind that you see eye to eye, then your minds become one, and you receive the reinforcement of the Adjuster's mind. Subsequently, if your will orders and enforces the execution of the decisions of this new or combined mind, the Adjuster's prepersonal will attains to personality expression through your decision, and as far as that particular project is concerned, you and the Adjuster are one. Your mind has attained to divinity attunement, and the Adjuster's will has achieved personality expression.
(1205.4) 110:2.6 To the extent that this identity is realized, you are mentally approaching the morontia order of existence. Morontia mind is a term signifying the substance and sum total of the co-operating minds of diversely material and spiritual natures. Morontia intellect, therefore, connotes a dual mind in the local universe dominated by one will. And with mortals this is a will, human in origin, which is becoming divine through man's identification of the human mind with the mindedness of God.

fanofVan wrote:
How about after? I don't.


You don't think a personality can actualize potentials after fusion? Is that what you're saying? Perhaps you didn't get a chance to think about this reference which explains that actualizing potentials is the dynamic of the universe which never ends. ALWAYS will actuals be opening up. ALWAYS is a strong word.

(1263:3) 115:3.16 The final dynamics of the cosmos have to do with the continual transfer of reality from potentiality to actuality. In theory, there may be an end to this metamorphosis, but in fact, such is impossible since the Potential and the Actual are both encircuited in the Original (the I AM), and this identification makes it forever impossible to place a limit on the developmental progression of the universe. Whatsoever is identified with the I AM can never find an end to progression since the actuality of the potentials of the I AM is absolute, and the potentiality of the actuals of the I AM is also absolute. Always will actuals be opening up new avenues of the realization of hitherto impossible potentials—every human decision not only actualizes a new reality in human experience but also opens up a new capacity for human growth. The man lives in every child, and the morontia progressor is resident in the mature God-knowing man.

How about this reference concerning the personality as it ascends levels of the universes? Wouldn't a personality be fused by the time it gets to the levels of the universes (emphasis on the plural)? Humans are not called ascending sons until after fusion.

(1286:4 117:5.6) The progressing personality leaves a trail of actualized reality as it passes through the ascending levels of the universes. Be they mind, spirit, or energy, the growing creations of time and space are modified by the progression of personality through their domains. When man acts, the Supreme reacts, and this transaction constitutes the fact of progression.

And finally there is this reference which explains that even after fusion the Adjuster continues to impart new potential attributes to the personality, and this process can never be exhausted.

(1212.5) 110:7.4  Subsequent to mortal fusion the Adjusters share your destiny and experience; they are you. After the fusion of the immortal morontia soul and the associated Adjuster, all of the experience and all of the values of the one eventually become the possession of the other, so that the two are actually one entity. In a certain sense, this new being is of the eternal past as well as for the eternal future. All that was once human in the surviving soul and all that is experientially divine in the Adjuster now become the actual possession of the new and ever-ascending universe personality. But on each universe level the Adjuster can endow the new creature only with those attributes which are meaningful and of value on that level. An absolute oneness with the divine Monitor, a complete exhaustion of the endowment of an Adjuster, can only be achieved in eternity subsequent to the final attainment of the Universal Father, the Father of spirits, ever the source of these divine gifts.


Why do you twist my words and post out of context snippets?

My question. "What about after? I don't." Was obviously reversed. I don't believe potential "is SETTLED" or finalized by fusion. Stephen claims a time comes in ascencion when there is no uncertainties. No there's not. That was my point too. We agree and yet you argue.

The quote prior I am saying the same thing, not ALL potentials are settled prior to OR AFTER fusion. There is always more potential for further realization and actualization and there will always be uncertainties in our choices....more than one choice...and there will also be multiple and unknown outcomes.

To claim our progress delivers a natural end to uncertainties is a falsehood. Just as is the claim that anxiety is healthy or desirable or something to embrace and defend in others when simple faith and trust delivers true assurance and peace to mind according to the promise of Jesus and the Revelation.

Those fear mongers who here and now or anywhere and anytime teach how normal and desirable constant worry (anxiety) is defy the teachings of the Revelation. ANXIETY MUST BE ABANDONED ....does the UB make this emphatic and unequivocal statement????!!!! Why yes it does!

Get over it....and stop recommending worry and anxiety. They are the antithesis of hope, trust, faith, and the assurance ministries of The Father, Mother, AND Son within. Shouldn't THAT be the message here...and to all?

Maryjo...you may parse and parcel this Revelation like Stephen as you wish and claim some parts more and less important than other parts and no reader or believer here should take any part too seriously if you dare to...but what a grave error and profound evil in my opinion. At this place, a study group of the Revelation you declare we should not take too seriously or too literally the teachings of this Epocal Revelation??!!

Dear Lord.


Last edited by fanofVan on Mon May 20, 2019 6:08 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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