SEla_Kelly wrote:
I don't accept your dogma! You are so arrogant! Anxiety does not find satisfaction until the potentials are settled, meaning we must seek the will of God in order to know what to do in each situation!
Are you the Apostle Paul, "having fought the good fight", "Have you been to the mountain" like Martin Luther King II? You have assurance and so you do not possess any anxiety fear or disappointment? Most unbelievable.
Again, you are being unrealistic and impractical in your approach. Assurance as you have espoused, I have not found. If the ultimate object in maturation is in becoming a finalitor, but a human being can ascend in one lifetime and find "indomitable faith". But you are pretending Bradley!
SEla_Kelly wrote:
But God might have known me before I was even born! I cannot simply have assurance: I must gain it experiencially! Assurance is not the solution but the result from my bushido and efforts! It is like giving a child a big 'ol lump of clay and saying "here you go here is your sculpture" or a chunk of ore to the Smith, and saying oh well here's your sword! The skills are real and incrementally developed within my tabernacle, and the assurance comes as a result! God sends each human individual the Father Fragment, but this does not gaurantee survival. But you may be assured IF you have this relationship, then you can seek wisdom and find solution for universe dilemmas.
Bradley is speaking of some abstract assurance "as a solution" that the Father Fragment has, existentially, but what about the assurance that I provide to God the Father i.e. "assurance as a result"?
SEla_Kelly wrote:
Well, sure, but to me that is a matter of faith. And I do not have certainty or assurances, the full realisation of faith, like Bradley espouses with regards to post-ultimate status of my eternal existence. Only great men & women have obtained that, and I have not heard them flaunt such attainment as that the way he does. To me, it is arrogant to think that I have won the total acceptance and fusion with the Father Fragment, that anxiety and disappointment are no longer valuable. I won't allow myself to believe it unless it happen, and if you do think you have gained such assurance, I will tell you 1001 times that it is the false assurance and comfort of withdrawing from the earthly affairs, some kind of preemptive or existential Nirdvandva. Don't hang your hat up yet! Societies develop and gain esteem, and through history have fallen like Ikarus, in the face of overconfidence, overzealousness, with the conviction of final attainment. That is what I hear from Bradley's explanations, not real assurance which might only be confirmed by the faith relationship. It sounds more like a goal a potential than an actuality. But worse, for Bradley to believe in his assurances as such, his arrogance becomes fixed and overshadow the spiritual nucleus of the mind, which makes all things new.
And the Father Fragment's assurance? But this is a tender loving father personality, who is drawn to the suffering and anxiety of others in a most sympathetic and effective manner! I want my own nature to become that, not my intellect. The way he talks about anxiety invalidates anxiety, disappointment and failure. He is not showing me how he has gained assurance in the way he explains it.
From a prior post of Stephen's (page 3 of this topic/thread dated April 29):
I must learn to trust my perception, even if my expression is not wrought of ultimate and final truth values. I want to observe beauty, know truth, and recognise goodness, and work in a silent regards to assist the life of God within every development of the grand universe.
In this respect, you are speaking about issues of personal discernment, but be careful. As much as you would contest the actual truth, which I espouse through my expression, you are hurting yourself with the "He is" misidentificational error, which can be just as detrimental as "I am" misrepresentation.
The "He is" applies to my own thoughts, as I am the one who thinks "He is", often enough during bouts of self-accusation something that another person does or says, something that happens per se, I will blame "He did this". But I do this, I am the one usually enough who has set the foundation of the universe off-kilter enough to either provoke the errors of accusation, or else not deal soundly enough with every situation I invovled in.
If it is my expression which the group would deem to be in error, then this would be in the apprehension or judgment of the Quorum within the group. I would like to foment and solidify the guidelines of Quorum within JEsusonian Truthbook. I do not regard the Thought Adjuster, as an individual fragment of God the Father within every human individual, as an experiencial actuality (and I accept that the ways of the Thought Adjuster may be unsearchable as is the Universal Father): I regard the Thought Adjuster as a theoretical possibility [b], but maybe people in Society who actually do have a connection with their Thought Adjusters "Thought Controllers", have acted in a fatherly way to help me find work and advice me as to reality approach.
Bradly Responds (also page 3 on April 29): Thank you again Stephen for confirming that you do not believe the contents and claims of the UB. Despite your many frequent proclamations of belief, you are finally demonstrating a more truthful and accurate portrayal of your actual lack of belief and many disagreements with the contents of the Papers.
Your disbelief is fine and not unusual or unwelcome. We gather here as students, not a body of professed believers. Neither are we here to convince you or any others or to convert you to any cause or belief. My objection to your prior posts is the fact of your repetitious contradictions of the text with your own beliefs which conflict directly with the text in so many and such profound ways while you endlessly proclaim your belief in the UB....
….What we do here Stephen is study the contents of the UB. No one here can prove them and no one here is going to try to. We simply read, study, share and seek to understand those contents. Some of us apply them to our daily life and find truth which adjusts our perspective of reality and brings change to our motives, intentions, priorities, and choices in life and some come to believe the contents and claims of the authors. But here, we are students first.
You must decide the value to you of such reading, study, and sharing. I hope you will come to accept that those beliefs, claims, proclamations, theories, and declarations you make here will always be compared to and contrasted with the Papers. That's what we do here. Your disbelief does not entitle you to additional accommodations. But it is helpful to know. Your beliefs are your own to choose Stephen. For myself, [b]I have no doubt you are a God believer and you walk the Pilgrim's Path to Paradise...no matter our disagreements about the UB or any other thing.
Your proclaimed disbelief explains much about your many posts and topics here over the years. Peace.
[/b]
Me here now: Well Stephen, I am glad you have found your voice to make your beliefs here on this matter clear and succinct. I am most sorry that you have not yet discovered the assurance of faith as described in the Papers (as posted here by many) and that you suffer from such deep doubts as to the factual ministry of the Spirits in mind and your safety in God's universe simply by wishing and hoping for survival and God's blessing to become and to perfect by his love, mercy, patience, affection, and forgiveness.
You are right that I have come to assume my Sonship status and to have found a profound comfort and confirmation of that status which the Papers promise is our legacy and destiny, even as mortals and tadpoles in this brief life. It is not arrogant to believe in God or have faith or feel sublime assurance in my destiny and my personal safety in God's friendly universe. Your accusations and personal insults reveals much about you Stephen and your attitude here.
To have such sublime peace does not require fusion or great Circle Progress either...it only requires the faith of a child who is assured of the parents' power, care, love, and presence. I claim only the status of tadpole Stephen, just one of 7 billion on Urantia. I am nobody from nowhere with nothing....except my faith.
The assurance I have is within the inherent nature of the relationship between mortals and Deity in our minds and soul. First is the relationship to the Mother Spirit...her's is the gift of awareness of the presence of God within and the comfort of God within, the urges within which we respond to which gives birth to faith and results in the faith response - Divine assurance. Then comes the whisper and voice of the Father Spirit upon the birth of soul, who's presence reveals truth to us and adds to our responsive relationship within by more "presence" affirmation and by truth assurance. This is the natural order for all mortals we are told and taught.
I am very distressed right now by your own doubts and lack of such assurance of your status and standing in God's kingdom and family. I do not believe, nor have I ever said (to anyone) that I am higher or greater or better than any other soul in all the universe of universes. Your anxieties and doubts are very real I know. I do not know their origin or how best to soothe them. I can only tell how confident I am in your status and in your destiny and that my confidence relies heavily upon the teachings of Jesus 2000 years ago and the 5th Epochal Revelation we share here, which is filled with positive affirmations and assurances as to God's nature and our future as his children.
100:6.6 (1101.1)
One of the most amazing earmarks of religious living is that dynamic and sublime peace, that peace which passes all human understanding, that cosmic poise which betokens the absence of all doubt and turmoil. Such levels of spiritual stability are immune to disappointment. Such religionists are like the Apostle Paul, who said: “I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else shall be able to separate us from the love of God.” [/color]
Jesus said:
156:5.12 (1739.7) Kingdom believers should possess an implicit faith, a whole-souled belief, in the certain triumph of righteousness. Kingdom builders must be undoubting of the truth of the gospel of eternal salvation. Believers must increasingly learn how to step aside from the rush of life—escape the harassments of material existence—while they refresh the soul, inspire the mind, and renew the spirit by worshipful communion.
156:5.13 (1739. God-knowing individuals are not discouraged by misfortune or downcast by disappointment. Believers are immune to the depression consequent upon purely material upheavals; spirit livers are not perturbed by the episodes of the material world. Candidates for eternal life are practitioners of an invigorating and constructive technique for meeting all of the vicissitudes and harassments of mortal living. Every day a true believer lives, he finds it easier to do the right thing.
156:5.20 (1740.7) The God-conscious mortal is certain of salvation; he is unafraid of life; he is honest and consistent. He knows how bravely to endure unavoidable suffering; he is uncomplaining when faced by inescapable hardship.
156:5.21 (1740. The true believer does not grow weary in well-doing just because he is thwarted. Difficulty whets the ardor of the truth lover, while obstacles only challenge the exertions of the undaunted kingdom builder.We gather here to study this great book of glorious hope and insight into the nature of reality and our place in that reality. It has been given to us to relieve despair and assuage our anxieties and encourage our hope and embolden our trust and confidence in God's friendly universe!!!
That is the essence of this Revelation and the Jesusonian Gospel which I believe in whole heartedly and profess to all. I look forward to that time when you might come to understand its message and embrace it like so many of us have. The TruthBook is the Comfort Book and the Book of Confirmations, Affirmations, and Assurance. It's entire purpose is to be a beacon and guiding light on the Pilgrim's Path for all of Urantia's tadpoles and pilgrims. I am but one of those.....as are you!
Over many years here I have very often offered you my assurances of and confidence in your own salvation and survival and destiny (as I did here back on page 3) based on my understanding of the UB and your stated beliefs and obvious hopes for the eternal adventure. I have always met with your rebuff and scolding about my personal arrogance because of my confidence in our soul's future and destiny. So be it. The UB says doubt and confusion can never prevent our survival and progress, they may but slow it down incrementally. I will persist in sharing this great truth and hope to all who attend here at TruthBook.
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